Ep 51: The Power of Kratom: Kassie's Inspiring Recovery Story

0:00 I feel like I'm happy, like weaving with everything going on or stresses that you have in your life or whatever. I'm just like, it's just like positive thinking all the time and just feel good energy and I love it. Welcome to Kratom Stories, a weekly podcast where we share stories of how this amazing plant has changed our lives. I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar. Each week I'll bring you a new episode featuring interviews with experts, advocates, and everyday people who've experienced the benefits of kratom first hand. Join me as we dive deeper into the world of this botanical wonder and discover the amazing stories behind this incredible plant.

0:51 The Kratom Stories Podcast is presented solely for educational purposes. Neither the podcast nor its host promote or endorse the use of kratom, a substance not yet regulated or approved by the FDA. The views and opinions expressed by guests are theirs alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or the podcast. The content is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding the use of kratom. Before we dive into today's episode, I want to let you know about Kratom Real Talk. It's a new community for positive, uplifting discussions about the power of whole leaf kratom. If you'd like to be part of the conversation and learn more about this plate or contribute your knowledge, go to kratomrealtalk.com. I'm here with Cassie, one of our podcast listeners. She's joined our Kratom Real Talk community, which by the way is free Kratom realtalk.com.

1:51 If you've not joined, you need to sign up. It is an awesome place to connect with other like minded kratom consumers. So Cassie, I'm so excited you're here to come Share your story with our community. My first question for you to get this kicked off is tell us a little bit about yourself and life before kratom. All right, thank you, Madeline. I'm very excited to be here. Thank you for having me. So my life before kratom was a very heavy addiction. So I started having addiction issues probably around 1819 years old. You know, I started out with the smoking the marijuana in school and doing this, but eventually it led to pills and eventually led to hard street drugs. I've done everything there is, unfortunately. But I was just like, I was stuck in a deep, dark hole for a long time, for probably about 15 years, I believe. So, yeah, IA lot of it was related to mental health issues as well, and I'll get it into that more. But yeah, so I went through all that in 2017. I finally got tired and I was like, you know, even though all the points during this, I was like, I don't care if I die right now.

3:09 Let me just get high first, you know, just crazy stuff like that. I finally was like, you know, I do want to live. I do want my life back. And so I, I'm so grateful because I went to a detox and then I found a rehab program that I 'cause I knew that, you know, seven days in a detox is not enough. So I said I've got to go somewhere long term and it can't even be six months. Like give me at least a year. Found a two year program, went there in 2017 and I graduated in June of 2019. And I've been clean for eight years now. So yeah.

3:50 So in a nutshell, that's pretty much how, how things went from addiction to being sober. But I've struggled a lot my whole life with depression and anxiety, ADHD, you know, whatever. But like I've just never, I just, I don't know, I just everything affected how I felt about things. I felt like I was never happy. And another thing, too, is, like, I was a hyper child all the way up through high school and everything. And then what? Something happened where I just, like, lost all my energy. Like, I just had no drive to do. I don't know. So the whole drug use for me was chasing happiness and chasing energy, if that makes any sense.

4:35 It made sense in my head at the time. Like, OK, if I do this, it makes me happy and let me just keep doing it so I can stay happy all the time. I mean, there's so many things that goes through an addict's mind. It's crazy. But yeah, so like, it was a constant, you know, searching for a cure for things that I'm feeling, you know, on the inside or, you know, just and wanting to get stuff done and whatever. So, you know, there was like pain pills that gave me energy. There was just different things. And then eventually you use so much, it just gets to the point. Like, I don't even care how it makes me feel. Just give me something. So, yeah. So, yeah. So been clean for eight years. I kind of struggle when I say cleaned because there's been a couple instances that I'm about to talk about. I mean, I've done great like beforehand, you know, I never, I didn't get a chance to do anything in my life, you know, I didn't ever really become a responsible adult, you know, I didn't pay my bills like I should have. I didn't have good credit, da, da, da whatever. Since I've been sober, you know, I've done all of those things and like, you know, got my shit together really. You know, I've got everything like I've never had this much and it's just amazing and it's been a great journey. However, when there is struggles and tough times, you know, it's definitely something you do have to work on for the rest of your life.

5:58 Like you have to everyday focus and just say, I'm not going to use today, you know. But when hard things come up and things happen, you know, you learn coping mechanisms, how to cope with it without going to go get high. And you know, I've done really, really well with that. But this year has just been a struggle. Like from the get go, I'm just like, right now I'm just like, please let 2024 be over because I'm done with it. Just one thing after another. And I don't know how I had got into a relationship at the beginning of the year, fell completely in love with this person. I was in rehab with this person. So I've known him for a long time and we just like kind of got back in touch and started seeing each other and everything was amazing.

6:45 He was clean. I was clean. And yeah, everything was good. And then all of a sudden it ghosted me. Like, what in the world, you know, trying to figure out what's going on. He had relapsed. And I had, I was worried about that. Whatever, didn't hear for a few months. And I was like, so hurt, so hurt for those few months and trying to like, you know, get past it. And then he calls me again. This was two months ago. And of course I'm like, you know, I want to make this work. I want to go over there. I want to like make sure he's OK. I want to help him and blah, blah, blah. So I go over there and I don't know why I did it, but you know, I just, I love him and he's high and he has drugs and I did him with him and it was like ridiculous. I go over there and of course I'm like, you know, what are you doing?

7:35 Why are you still doing this blah, blah, blah. And I don't know, all these things happen and then it's just like, OK, well, and it's not like the normal illegal drugs that I was used to doing like on a regular basis. It was like some psychedelics and a couple of things. And I did them with them. And I'm just like, how the hell are you gonna go over there and claim to save someone and then end up doing it with them, you know, after? I'm sorry. So eight years will be, it'll be eight years in January. So seven years and some months or whatever. But I'm like, after all that stuff and I mean, I don't like, of course, you know, I keep this instance like at the forefront of my brain just like remind me to it helps keep me sober. But I was just like, you know, it wasn't something that did. And then I kept wanting more after that. I felt like shit for 2-3 days afterwards. I was just like what the, you know, whatever. But also realized that I was being stupid for love for one thing.

8:33 And then I was just like trying to find something. And from the time that he had ghosted me to the time he had got in touch with me again, I started smoking marijuana, which I personally don't have any issues with. Uh huh. And was drinking a lot. And the drinking, I've never been a big drinker, never had an issue with drinking. I didn't start, I didn't have my first beer until I was after four or after four years into recovery, just because I didn't want to take the chance of it, of being drunk or something and then doing something crazy. So I finally got to where I felt like I was comfortable to have a beer. And so I've been able to drink, you know, very occasionally here and there. Well, this year it became like every weekend and then more days during the week and smoking weed.

9:18 And I found that I was looking for more and it scared me. So I didn't want to go back to that life. So at one point after I had graduated from the program, at one place that I lived, I had one of the guys from the program as a roommate. He was like my best friend. This is how I learned about kratom. He had, he was doing it. And of course, you know, I'm like, what is that or whatever. And the only thing he tells me, you know, 'cause I mean, he was addicted opioids and stuff that he said it was a substitute for opioids and he said that you can get addicted to it. So of course, immediately I'm just like, and I'm like, why are you doing that? Duh, duh. And then of course, you know, me and a few other people from the program or talking and they're just like, yeah, he's using kratom, blah, blah, blah.

10:05 So that's all I've ever known about it. And then this year it comes up again, I think a video I saw or something. I don't know. But I, I said, you know what, let me look into this for myself because what I had seen was something positive. And so I just went in and I'm like, what is this stuff really about? And I educated myself. Yeah. And then I didn't educate myself enough and I'll say why I here in a little bit. But I did go to a smoke shop, got my first little bag of kratom, took it. It was amazing. I felt it, you know, OK, I didn't get a bat. I got a bag of capsules. It was 10 capsules and I had gone to an apothecary or dispensary and I'm like this gotta be a little better smoke shop, right?

10:47 And I'm ready to get some now. I didn't even think about ordering any online. I probably, I don't even think I knew about it. So I take a capsule 'cause I'm like, I don't want to do powder. Let me just get these capsules and I'll take one and see what it does to me when I go in there. I tell him I said I'm interested in trying crate them. Like what do you recommend? And the guy that was standing right there by the kratom was like, he looked at me like, uh, and then the other guy across the store points over to this little section that has all these small bags of this one brand and it's 10 capsules. He said I would start with those small bags. And that's literally like, he just knows it's a small bag and it's got a few Anyway, So I got the next morning, I take a capsule and I feel it, you know, a little bit though.

11:33 I was like, let me take one more. This is like an hour, two hours later. And then later on that day, I think I took 2. Anyway, I felt it enough to know that it felt amazing and I wanted to keep researching blah blah blah. A week, week and a half goes by. Come to find out I'm taking extracts. Oh, OK. Well, it is. It's stupid. And This is why I wanted to show you back because like, that shows you right there. And it might be an attic thing, but I don't read packages, you know, I'm just like, OK, this is green. It's going to do this for me. It's a small, you know, little thing. Let me try it out. That's all I cared about. So it was a bunch of small bags with 10 capsules, and it was this brand. OK, I'm allowed to say it.

12:17 Say it. Yeah. You're the only one that can see this. But you can mention it. It's mint therapy. OK, Mint therapy. I've not heard of that one. Everything that they sell has mixtures. OK, here's another one I had gotten. This is Hulu and white endo. OK OK this is green and green dragon and super green. Now it took me a week and a half to see this extract enhanced. In small print. Well, it's not. It's. Not, I mean it's not like in bit, I mean it's I, yeah, I'm looking on the screen here. I mean, first of all, the package just looks nice and professional. It also has lab tested 100% natural GMP certified now on the back the Mishregina Speciosa plain leaf powder, 3.8% mitrogyna and 0.057 hydroxy mitrogynein.

13:15 However you say it right, right now, this is the ingredient that we've I've been hearing, you know, a lot of talk about us not feeling real good about this, but. The other 708, but from what you're describing on there, you're holding up on the screen for me is it sounds like it has a high mitrogynein. You said it was like 3.8 I think you said. 3.8% plain leaf powder and and it's it's oh I'm sorry, it says plain leaf powder enhanced with the extract. 3.8% metrogyna and 0.057 hydroxymetrogynyne. Yeah, now the 708 says the seven hydroxymetrogynyne.

13:56 So you know what's crazy in the creating community right now? We keep hearing about 70 H seven OH, tablets are like becoming all the rage and smoke shops and they're super potent, more potent than what you're showing me. I mean, there's really and you learn just from talking to other people and just educating yourself and there's like 3 levels of kratom, the whole leaf powder, just the plain whole leaf powder. Then there's extracts, which you're showing me extract powder and you don't see that as often. It's usually the extract little shop bottles. It's the liquid. That's what's really common with the extracts, but they are extract powders like what you have. And then there's the seven oh, where is synthesizing that 7 hydroxymetragynine to be super, super powerful to the point that it's basically an opioid.

14:46 And our concern right now is like, you know, these this new 70 H products that are coming out, they're being pushed really heavily in the smoke shops can be dangerous. They're too strong. They can be very addicting and it's not the same thing as the whole leaf powder. They shouldn't even be allowed to call them kratom. But here's the thing, it goes back to our kratom packaging. It's always going to show that there's some 7 hydroxymetrogynein because the plant itself has a very, very small amount. So you're reading like 0.005. I think you said it's a very, very small percent. So that's normal in the plain leaf. And then when you consume it, your body, you know, converts it and does its thing. And then it gets a little bit higher in your system, but not at A at a bad dose.

15:29 But what manufacturers are doing now is they're synthesizing the plant to create something really powerful and strong. And it's worrisome because those could be very addicting. Yeah. And then this, what concerns me is that addicts like me that are having struggles that have been in recovery, like relapse, and because they're getting this stuff that's so strong. Yeah. It's just, it's not, it's not good. It can. Cause more harm than good, really. Right, right. So yeah, when I and yeah, just I've gotten some samples since then and since I've been listening to you and I've all of your recommendations on vendors, all the ones that I could, I've gone and asked for samples. I've gotten a few already and I've got some more. I got some for ether come in.

16:19 I've got yeah, a few more and this is So what I've been doing OK since I found out this is an X-ray and I'm sorry, I'm jumping all over the place. Oh no. This is this is fine. It's all good. When I found out about this, I was like, Oh my gosh, Madeline and all of them are talking about these extracts and I why, you know, I'm noticing that what I've been taking says that on there. So anyway, So what I did immediately was went back to the smoke shop and got I mean, just for something like right now, the earth kratom that's. A common one. Yeah, but it was just plain, the plain leave. I made sure I'm like, it's not a extract. Whatever took it didn't do anything for me, of course, because I've been taking the strong stuff. So what I've been doing and I'm like, you know, I'm a month in and I'm still doing, you know, trying to trial and error. That's what I was trying to say, figure it out. So what I'm doing now is these samples that I've had, I'm taking those for my doses and like one every other day teaspoon of this to try to get my tolerance to where I can just enjoy plain leaf rather than I don't know if that's how I should do it.

17:35 This is my idea in my head. I've asked a a question on a platform, I can't remember which one, and somebody said just stop for a few weeks. I did stop for one day, but I'm just, I'm trying to figure out how to get on the whole leaf without stopping. Yeah, I mean, I could stop if I wanted to. That one time that I stopped for a day was easy, very easy. And I didn't feel bad. I think you're doing it the right way where you're just you're tapering down from the extract or you're just not taking it for every dose and you're taking I, I know the plain leaf when you got the, that brand is, I've never heard anything good about that. I mean, it's good when you need something. So I'm not knocking that like it's better than nothing, but when you like those vendors that I have them on the Crane stories podcast website that I personally buy and use myself are so, so much higher quality.

18:34 And I've actually gotten to know the owners of those companies online and like, they're just good people trying to do good in the world. And we're not like some of these others where it's all about just making a dollar. And when people I've met like say through TikTok or the Kratom Real talk community that were using smoke shop Kratom and then they go try one of these online vendors that I used, they're like, Oh my God, it's like day and night. It's like night and day. Like so wow, these online vendors can be so much better quality then and plus smoke shops are pricey too. They charge a lot too, so you know they have to mark it all up and. I also feel that kratom doesn't belong in a smoke shop.

19:15 Yeah, I mean any of it. Like I just feel like I'm not saying anything bad about smoke shops, but you know, when you think or talk about smoke shop, you think about, you know, getting some marijuana or or THCA or whatever, y'all that stuff and it just, I don't know, it's just like not the best reputation and to put kratom in there. I just don't think it belongs. That's a great point. I I totally understand. Yeah, I totally understand your point of view. And that makes perfect sense because you're right. You know, people typically go smoke shops to. Yeah, I mean, I live in Texas, so it's not legal here to, you know, it's cannabis, but we still have smoke shops where, you know, there's plenty of other things or your accessories for for weed or whatever.

20:01 So I mean, that's a great point of view because you have people typically in a smoke shop, whether you're in a legal state or not legal state to get things towards getting high, plus also with smoke shops. It's not very common for the people working there to be very educated on kratom and being able to help people, you know, with it's so much trial and error to figure kratom out. You know, so many times people find my videos on TikTok and they're like, just tell me what to buy and how much to take. And I'm like. It's not. That simple. It's not one-size-fits-all. It's not like take two aspirins and call me in the morning. We're not in that world with kratom. And then people will be like, well, I, I saw your video. I have what you have. I have degenerative disc disease.

20:42 I said, that doesn't matter if you're the same thing, it doesn't mean the same exact thing I consume is going to work for you. It takes trial and error and it takes patience. Oh yeah, but. But I'm glad you discovered Kratom and you're only being a month in, which is amazing by the way, that you're learning a lot in a very short period of time. And that is working for you. And I can totally understand like, Oh my gosh, it turns out this is extract powder. But I think you're approaching this in the right way is like finding alternatives, tapering that down. It's been a short time though, So I mean, I'm not again, everybody's different with how kratom reacts with them. If you've been consuming that extract powder long enough for it to be difficult to change to just regular plain leaf powder.

21:29 But the way you're you're approaching it, I think is there. It's what I would be doing if I was in your situation. Because I was thinking about when you're, when you're talking about the smoke shop and people are not being educated. Like I immediately when I saw that on the bag, I just like that guy at the smoke shop, like has no clue. Like he basically is just like, oh, well, you just start on this because it's a small bag and there's only 10 capsules in it and a serving is five capsules. Yeah. It's just like, it's just so easy to go in there and get misinformation and get the wrong thing. Like that could have been, you know, one of those extract models and I could have been the one that drank the whole thing and there's 4 servings in it or something. Yeah, they're like nobody reads the fine print of how many servings are in those little bottles. Tell you that now.

22:20 I bet you do. And also I'm glad that you weren't in a smoke shop where they're pushing those 7OH tablets because we're hearing so many stories that they are literally pushing it on people. They're expensive, they're so potent. People get immediately hooked on those things. They're they should not call them kratom. They should not be. It is not. I have a picture I'm going to send you. I went to, I'm a frequent flyer in the smoke shop because I do cannabis as well. But the guy I go to the smoke shop all the time, he was rearranging everything and he ended up putting all the kratom on one back wall and then in the display cabinet had all of the extracts and it was just so many of them.

23:03 And I just took a picture because it was just like it just, I don't know. I'm just like, what? I was in shock. I mean, just that. I don't know. It's a big money maker. They make so much money off of those. And you know, extracts are not only in smoke shops or a lot of gas stations around the country too. And that's what's giving it a bad rap as well, because they're like, first of all, kids are not consuming kratom. It tastes terrible. It doesn't really get you high. I mean the seven OH could, but like you know, it's not the reports you hear are typically of a grown adult that consumes too much of it that just went from one addiction to the other.

23:44 Those of us that consume whole leaf powder, it is not common to hear of people having issues with overuse or not being able to stop. Kratom isn't the same family as coffee plant wise. So what most people will say is when they stop kratom, whether they take a tolerance break and stop for, you know, a week or two or they're tapering down because they just want to take less. Many times with kratom less is more that they'll say it's like when I stop drinking coffee, you know, I might get a headache or you know, like it's not much to it. It's not common for people to have go through like major withdrawals. When people talk about opioid like withdrawals with kratom, it's not a common thing.

24:26 Not to say people don't do that have that. I mean, if they consume a lot of it, I yeah, that probably will. It's not good to consume too much of anything. I like my Doctor Pepper, but I know I shouldn't be drinking too many of them. That's not going to be good for me. Yeah, when I first tried it too, I told you I had taken a capsule and then a few hours later, well, I think, I think I did it that for like 2 days and then kept sight seeing all these videos on the powder, on the powder. And I'm like, I think the guy that stayed with me, I think he just put it in water and drink it and I can't, I've seen your swamp can't do it. But I can toss it, wash that. I can toss it.

25:06 Really. I actually started doing the toss and wash on the third day and I did it because I want, I said I want to consume the powder because what I was learning it'd be better in the capsules and I said, but I and I'm not going to sit there and drink it. So I started watching videos of people doing towels and wash and I did it and had no problem. It's I hate it, It's terrible. But I got my blade tapes last night and all. Right. I was just going to say try the blade tapes because that's a great way to do it. I did it for the first time this morning and I video I recorded it because I just like I just want my first time recorded like and I kind of felt a little bit the first one it opened up a little bit, but it was still great and the second time, yeah Oh my God, the. Key is not hesitate when you're swallowing that thing, 'cause I, you know, I, I don't use blade Papes for all my doses. I'm so used to the swamp water.

26:02 I mean, been drinking this four times a day for 5 1/2 years. I'm so used to it now. But I do like my blade Papes from time to time. But what happened back in June? We had a hurricane come right over Houston. I was without power for 9 days and so I couldn't microwave to make my swamp water. So I was like, oh thank God I have my blade papes. So all of my doses were blade papes. But there was one of my doses. I just was in La La land. I wasn't paying attention because I've done it so many times. And when I was swallowing it kind of got stuck in my throat and opened up and I kind of coughed it out and I'm like, I've heard stories of that but it never happened to me And it was so gross and it was so messy. I'm like, Oh my. But I realized I wasn't really paying attention to what I was doing.

26:44 I just so just kind of reminding me like okay, pay attention, you know, swallow it fast. But blade papes are a great alternative if I don't want to do capsules with all the capsule shells in your stomach or you're like mean you don't want to toss and wash, You don't like toss and wash method. You don't want to have to do the swamp water method. Then blade papes are are great. I'm so glad you tried. That it was the greatest invention. Yeah. And I, I ordered them like Tuesday or Wednesday or something. I've been waiting. Like I'm so ready to try this. You're like, come on in here. Yes, yeah. You can get them at bladepapes.com, but also Amazon. You can get them through Amazon. I got mine from Amazon for $20.00 but I also said this in my video.

27:27 You know I think I saw I have to look and find out it was either New Hope botanicals or or Cats botanicals. One of them has them for like 1699 but I don't know what they're shipping. So. It's possible that you can get a little cheaper, but I think $20.00 for 120 of them is great. Oh, totally. I mean, it's taken. It took me. Forever. Yeah, it took me forever to go through that first pack. I mean, again, I wasn't using them every day, but yeah, the 120 of them. And I like the little funnel shape is shaped perfectly. And the little cardboard thing, you know, is I've had people say I don't even know what to do with the cardboard thing. I said you got to watch my videos because I walk you through the whole it's like, oh, now I see, see what that little cardboard piece is for? I watched your video one more time before I did it. It was funny was when I tried Blake Papes for the first time. They have a really good YouTube channel, Blake Papes. They have really good ones walking through all of it. So I watched just a variety of their videos. They've got some longer videos and they have some YouTube Shorts videos.

28:33 And so I watched them and I like, I just was watching them. I'm like, OK, I can do this. And I, I did like you did. I recorded myself because I thought I want to capture this moment. I might want to share this. At some point I was. Thinking and I just remember being nervous. I remember looking at the camera go I'm scared, but I did it. It was like no big deal. It's like. Fall on a capsule. I mean, it's not really different from that. It might feel a little bit different, but but my first time, I don't think I'd put it back far enough. Maybe I don't know something. But like I said, it did come up and it was not much though. And also when I went to pour it in the blade paint, because I'm so used to toss and wash and I pack it in the spoon, the measuring spoon, when I do it in my mouth, I have to tap it to get it out.

29:20 It'll fall out in this mound. And that's what made it easier for me to toss and wash. But like trying to put that mound in the blade Paint. Yes, but a little bit the 1st. Time yeah, it doesn't work too well doing that and also you don't want to over pack the blade papes. My typical dose is 2 teaspoons and I can fit like 1 teaspoon well in a If I try to do more than a teaspoon, I feel like I'm too much and then you can't fold it over and and set it up. So I have to use two blade papes, which is no big deal because again. It's so. Inexpensive, but yeah, it's trial and error. You figure it out and and you also learn to make sure your fingers are dry because if you're messing with that blade Pape and your fingers are wet, it just the whole thing sticks together and you got one big mess.

30:01 All kinds of trial and error. I want to go back to when you said the very first time you learned about Kratom and from your friend and that was you said that was back when you were still in rehab, right? No, I was out of rehab like we had graduated already. We stayed in the area and we, it was maybe say I graduate, it was maybe 2020, mid 2021 when he was doing it and I was like what is that so? But all you heard back then was just negative stuff and this is addicting and. Yeah, from him. He said that it gave him energy, and that is like a substitution for opioids, and that's why he was taking it.

30:45 And that was pretty much it. And I think I learned also that they sold it in smoke shops. I had never heard of it, didn't know about it. And then after that, when, you know, people are talking and they're like, oh, so and so's over there doing kratom and they talk about it like it's a drug. Like he relapsed. And that was the information that I had about it. So I immediately just like put it on my mind, forgot about it. Totally. Just missed it. Yeah, well. Yeah, like I don't want to be doing. Sure. Yeah, so even now when I started, you know, my son is like, but I've been, he actually works at a smoke shop part time. He knows all of the science and everything on the THCA and cannabis.

31:30 Like he knows it all. Like he's great for that job. How I feel about how employees should be at a smoke shop and knowing about the products anyway. Yeah. So he he just sees people that abuse it. So that's, you know, of course they're concerned. But yeah, I've taught him a lot about it. I've been, you know, telling him everything that because I want him to be able to talk to the customers and share right information so. What does he think as you know, seeing you as his mother who's consuming the this plant? Like does he see a change in you since you? Started I actually asked him that and he said that he can tell I'm a lot calmer because it does. Like my anxiety is my anxiety and my depression. I mean, granted, I've been on medications for it as well and I still am, but I'm actually, and I probably shouldn't do this. Please don't do this unless you talk to your doctor first. But I have not taken my medicine every other day because the kratom worked so good.

32:34 But I have an appointment with my doctor to talk to her about it and to get the right way of coming off of my mental health medications. Yeah, because they numb you as well. I've been taking Lexapro for the last few years and it works great for my anxiety and depression. A lot of things have been good. However, there's a lot of things that have been numbed and I'm like, like for a long time they're like, I didn't feel like I could cry or anything. Like you could tell me something crazy, like a dog was dead, something that normally would kill me and I wouldn't. I'd be like, that's how numb I was and other things, you know, so I talked to my doctor about it and they actually gave me Wellbutrin to take on top of it.

33:21 And then they then things started opening up a little bit. But it's just like how many medications I have to take to feel normal and not numb myself because that's what I spent years doing while I was using drugs. Like this is not what I want. So for me now kratom is it for me, they're gonna get me off this medication. I'm a taper off or do it like I'm supposed to. And be done with it. Yeah, that's awesome. And I can see you lighten up saying that. That's great. So many people I've talked to since starting this podcast last year have mentioned like so many medications they were able to stop like they would start like so many people like like how I am that come from the with chronic pain, coming from pain management community.

34:04 You know, we find out about kratom, take it for a pain and then it's like, but there's all these other benefits you get from it. Like so many people said, not only to take pain meds, but I also to, you know, antidepressants and like a variety of things for their mental health and mental well-being. And we're able to stop it all or most just because they started kratom. And it's just amazing to hear stories of that, of being able to scale back or completely stop all these other pharmaceuticals that that. You take. Because of a plant Like why didn't people talk about this? Why is it that we don't hear about this? Right, I have never, I have never thought that I would ever actually like be able to have my anxiety and depression under enough control to be able to be happy and live my life until kratom.

34:54 Because I mean, I, I have always had like super OCD issues. Like I can't function in an environment that is messy. Like things have to be organ. And yes, I mean, it's not that great right now, but it's because of kratom. Things have to be organized and in place for me to be able to think and function properly. Like I know that's probably like that for most people, but for me it's extreme. Like I can't, I get overwhelmed. I can't do anything. Like I'm literally like frozen because I'm overwhelmed. I haven't had that, you know, I mean, not that I want to let things go and not have, but you know, I don't want it to control my life. It's been so bad in the past where I'd call in sick to work just to stay home, to clean my house. Like those are just things I've had to deal with. I'm like, I feel like I'm happy, you know, like we've been with everything going on or stresses that you have in your life or whatever.

35:50 I'm just like, it's just like positive thinking all the time and just feel good energy and I love it. That's so great. It's so great hearing that, you know, just from consuming this plant, you've only been in it for a short period of time. It's like, you know, I'm sure you're thinking like, man, the Sky's the limit. Like I just started and I'm already seeing these great results so quickly. And so you feel like since starting kratom, that like just your daily life and just your overall well-being is just completely improved. Absolutely, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm kind of a workaholic. I work a lot and I already do well with working, but I have just been so productive and like got energy, like good steady energy throughout the day.

36:39 No crashes, no jitteriness, jittery jitters. Yeah, just no negative side effects. Now, going back to when I told you I started powder like a second or third day, I did throw up for three mornings in a row. Oh, OK. Because I took I think I had gone from 1 teaspoon to two and it's too much at the. Beginning well with extract powder that would. Be, you know, see if you. Know, see, and, and this is what's important for anybody listening to this podcast episode that is researching Kratom to understand and to really be diligent in, in understanding exactly what you're purchasing is that whole leaf Kratom powder versus extract powder are so different that just half a teaspoon or a whole teaspoon more could. I could see doing that Now if I'm just doing whole leaf powder and I just, you know, had an extra teaspoon when I'm experimenting and doing my trial and error in the beginning and I wasn't feeling that much or just feeling a little bit that much more would probably not make me throw up. I'd probably.

37:44 Like to take quite a bit more. But extract is just so much stronger, so you're getting way more of those alkaloids. So wow, that's interesting. But I'm so glad that like these did, that didn't deter you, like you still kept. It right well, and I'd also, you know, learned about that a lot of the research I did, you know, if you take too much, you're going to throw up. And you know, of course I wasn't aware I was taking this enhanced extract at the time. But yeah, I increased my dosage. I took it in the morning right when I wake up and got ready for work and I drove to work. And both times this happened the exact same way. Both times as soon as I got in the parking lot at work, I just threw up once and went about my business.

38:26 Like it didn't make me feel bad. I just had to get it out of my system. And so where I was going with that is just saying like I have not had any bad side effects from kratom. That is the only thing. But I think it's a positive thing because it lets you know, hey, this is too much of me for you to take. Exactly. It's not like your typical narcotics where you take too much, you stop breathing and you can die. With kratom, you take too much, you throw up. That's it. That's that. Your body's saying, OK, you took too much of it, you got to stop. I'm going to make it come out now. Right? That's it. Another, another huge reason for I mean, I'm ready. I'm ready to be a loud and proud advocate. Like I want to do everything I possibly can to help with this. But another thing with it too that makes me so passionate is my mom passed away from overdose on Percocet. She had been in a bad motorcycle accident and hurt her neck. Course they gave her all these pain medicines and I mean it was like it ended up being in chronic pain for her. So but she was just taking them and taking them and then just became more and more to the point where she just, yeah, just stop breathing and went too long without oxygen to her brain. And she had to, yeah, just gone 49 years old. So just being an addict myself and be in recovery and, and everything I've been through and things I've seen like just makes me like I have ever since I was

39:59 in the rehab program, like I have been wanting to get out there and help other addicts like. Come on, like, let's get this, you know, And I have been so passionate about it. I haven't really done a whole lot with it. I mean, of course, like in social situations if it comes up or like friends of mine or whatever. But I haven't like gotten to be able to be out in the community and do things. And since I've discovered kratom though like this has been the most passionate thing I have been about since I have been sober. That is awesome. So I love when people discover kratom and see the power of this and want to go and advocate and let people know about it because like we're saying before, people don't talk about this much.

40:44 You know, I was in pain management for nine years taking opioids, and there is always that worry. Even though I didn't have any addiction issues with it, there's always still that worry that I could take too much. Your body needs more. You're trying to not be in so much pain, and there's always that concern. But nobody ever mentioned kratom. In all those nine years I was taking opioids every day, nobody ever mentioned it. And what's interesting, in my case, kratom works better for me than the pain pills ever did. Like, it helps my pain tremendously. And it doesn't do that for everybody, but it does personally for me. So if I had known sooner, I would have stopped pain management, I would have like, dropped that and just been using kratom. But it just makes me a loud and proud advocate because I want to help people in the pain community know their alternatives, especially because right now, doctors are scared to prescribe. People are being dropped.

41:35 They're committing suicide. You know, they don't know what to do. And it's like, gosh, there's a plant that could, like, change your life. So I'm very passionate about that. But I also love hearing stories like yours with going through, you know, so much with addiction and how this plant helps so much. You know, my my first interview I did with this podcast was with Misty Brown. She's episode number 2. I just. I just had her back on, yeah. I like I know her as well. Watching you all and listening to y'all. Yeah, she's she was so great. And she comes from both pain management, but also with addiction through being in pain management. And what she always says with kratom, what it did for her is it put her brain on pause to not be craving drugs. Which is just amazing that not only can this plan help if you suffer from pain issues, but helps with cravings. And not just for drugs but for alcohol too. People will say hi, like don't want to drink. I can assess to that because I told you I was drinking a lot this year because of everything I was going through. Well, I still, I mean like even before getting increasing my drinking, I just like to have a drink every now and then, you know, like I love a good cold beer while I'm cooking out or bowing grass or something.

42:56 But even now since I've had Kratom, I have not drank any. I tried to twice, like on a weekend. I'm like, I just want a couple of beer. I actually didn't want it. I really didn't. I haven't had no craving for it, but I just felt like it was something I just wanted to do because it was a Friday and I just wanted to have a couple beers. I opened it and I probably had two steps out of it, but I have not even wanted. I've had the same 12 pack of beer in my fridge for a month and a half now. I think so, yeah. But it does like I don't crave anything. And I can, you know, I don't have chronic pain issues or anything like that, like you all. But I can attest that just the minor aches and pains like neck and back that I feel like we all have, it helps a lot with that. I sit a lot at my job and work with very small, detailed things, so I'm constantly like this. And so it puts a lot of pressure and tension on my neck and my lower back.

43:54 And it's helped with that for me, you know, so. That is so great. I can imagine what it does for you all. It's amazing. It's just amazing a plant that can help so much with with pain issues, with my neck and back issues. It's very debilitating. I've been living with it for a long time and this plant doesn't even come close to the different medications. And I've pretty much have tried every opioid, every narcotic that's available through pain management and it just doesn't even compare, which is just amazing. It just makes me feel good that like I take a plant for my pain, but it also gives them a great mood boost. And it's just, it's just a light to me, life changing to you get back to like how I used to be before I was in pain management when I just wasn't always consumed, like being in pain, you know?

44:45 So what's your routine like? Are you consuming multiple times a day or just once a day? Like how are you doing that right now? It really just, you know, you're. Transitioning. I know you're. Transitioning. Yeah, it's still still trying error, trial and error. However, there's some days where I'm good with my 2 teaspoons in the morning and I don't need nothing else the rest of the day. Sometimes. Well, and this has been here lately and I think this is looking like what it my routine might pan out to be, but the two teaspoons in the morning and then if I feel like I need it later in the day, I'll just take one teaspoon and that's it. That's great. And have you discovered like is one of the colors of crate, the green, like there's the green vein red, the white. Have you noticed any difference with like sticking to a certain color?

45:35 I have. So the first one I tried was white because well, actually, no, I'm sorry. It was a mixture. The Hulu in the white endo the capsules of this bread because I was like give me energy, give me energy, waste much I was taken. It gives you the jitters. Do not like white at all. Yeah, too much. And I don't know Hulu. Is that a color or is that from a location? Here's the thing. Because. I'm like, what other color? Yeah, it's location, but also with a lot of companies it's just part of their marketing and it's not necessarily from their location, but they call it that. So Hulu's a region in Indonesia.

46:15 And then blends is when they take couple the different cut, like they might take a red and a white and combine it. And so it's called a blend. But I always tell people when they're first starting, just stick to the individual colors and try them one at a time and see how you do. I mean, some people do great with all the different ones and then they say, oh, you know what? I like the green. And then I like to add a little bit of white because I don't want too much white, but I just want a little bit extra boost than what the already gives me. Some people say the red is great for relaxation. And that's like a whole, right. That's like a whole next level trial and error part of it, you know? Yeah. But yeah, so the white made her, made me too jitter, jittery red. I've never noticed anything with red. There was one time I took it because I've been trying it at night because they say red is good for sleep. And there was one time where I actually felt it and I got really sleepy and just, it was real relaxing. But any other time I've tried it, I haven't felt anything. But Green's been my jam.

47:14 Green has been real good. So now I'm trying to figure out like of, you know, all the samples I got were greens. I think one of them might be like a mixture of different ones. I mean like a green or red like separately but. Yeah. And then the ether tablets, I got ordered samples of those, so I'm waiting on those. Yeah, those are blends. You know, I, I've told them that they really should have their samples be a red, a green and a white because I mean, samples are going to people that are new and I've tried their different blends and none of those work well. I mean, I, I love their green. I have their green powder. I love the green powder. I use that daily and I love their green tablets. The tablets cost more, but they're great for on the go. So like I just, they're always, if I'm leaving home, I have tablets on me because you never know, you know, and more so for somebody like me in chronic pain, like you know, if I'm somewhere too long is like I don't want to go without since I I dose every six hours.

48:14 That's what helps keep me pain free. But I just like the convenience of having tablets on the go. And it's not the 7OH tablets, it's just pure. Right. Oh yeah, I made sure. Whole leaf powder. I just wanted to have the experience of the tablet. Yeah, tablets is like a whole another. Level because I like to try out all the yeah, I like to try out all the new stuff. But of course, you know, as long as it's safe. Yes exactly, that's why I research and get good reputable vendors that you purchase. From doing a lot of experiments. Well, that's good. This is such an amazing conversation Cassie. I feel like I could talk to you all day. I have one last question for you. Knowing everything you know now in this very short period of time, what advice would you be giving somebody who is just starting brand new on their journey with you being a month end?

49:05 The advice I would give would be obviously buy good quality kratom, go to the vendors and make sure that their GMP certified that is slab tested. Make sure it's whole leaf kratom. Look at the ingredients, read the packaging. Don't do like I did. You really do want to know what you're putting in your body. So it's a good idea to read the package, the low and slow go with the lowest when you first start out and then figure out what's going to work and increase it after that. Be patient. I actually really liked starting with the capsules. I don't really.

49:46 I've wondered about that though, like is there a lot of new people that start straight to the powder or I mean? A lot of people start with capsules because it's just easy and we're all familiar with capsules, but with the plain leaf powder, you know, the capsules are typically .5 to .8g. So it's not. So if one teaspoon is 2.4g and let's say the capsules are .5, so it's going to take two capsules to be, you know, 1g. So like for somebody like me that consumes normally about 5 grams, that's going to be a lot of capsules. And then, you know, all at once all the capsule shells, they always would make me like just not just bloated.

50:27 If you're only taking a few capsules, just a small number is probably not as bad, but if they were but they were extract with the X those capsules extra. It was. It was this brand. Yeah. So you probably didn't need very many of those capsules. So I could see where it was fine. I had started, I took one capsule, waited a while, took another and I started feeling it. But yeah, I'm sorry, I didn't think about the amount. But yeah, I mean, for me, just as from my perspective, taking a pill, something that we're familiar with, and I don't like the gel stuff in my stomach or anything like that either. But just like having it give you a slow amount at a time I think is a good idea for a beginner rather than just.

51:13 But I mean, you know, if they do it right and they know what they're doing and they do a small amount, you know, and of course, research, research, research. Like there's so much to learn about this plant, but I would just do a lot of research before you begin and have good information, like through Madeline and the Kratom podcast, The Kratom Girls and I keep forgetting Kratom real talk. I got a lot going on. I'm just trying to like tell people as much as I can. Right. It is great information. You get to hear people's stories. It's been awesome. Well, I'm so glad you found this podcast on Spotify.

51:55 That's so exciting when you told me that and. Not just kratom, but like this podcast has changed my life because I've gotten to learn so much and see a lot from different perspectives and just hearing other people's stories like it's great. That is so awesome. Thank you. That's like an awesome compliment. Well, I would love to bring you back on maybe when you're like six months into your journey, have you come back and get Phyllis in on how you're doing? And but this has been a great, great time chatting. Cassie, thank you for spending time today. Yeah, thank you for having me. Thank you for listening. You can get more information at kratomstoriespodcast.com, including show notes from this episode.