Ep 85: Amanda Rainer: Finding Freedom After Thirty Years on Pain Meds

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It's pain management for the
rest of your life.

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You're not getting the pain meds
that are supposed to help.

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And they honestly did it.
And I thought, I don't know if

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my body just got used to them.
I've been on them for 30 years.

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I wasn't getting relief.
It was miserable.

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I felt awful mentally,
physically.

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And now I'm like, I feel like a
new me.

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I feel like I have myself back.
Do I, do I have bad days?

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Absolutely.
Am I in pain 24/7?

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Absolutely.
But this is manageable for me

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now.
I can live my life.

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I can go to a concert.
I can, you know, go out and

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dance.
Am I going to pay for it the

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next day?
You betcha.

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But I wouldn't have been able to
go do that.

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And for me, that's good for my
mental health, you know, and my

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therapist too, She's just like,
you know this.

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I've seen such a transformation
in you in the last 10 years.

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And you know, she's like, I
can't tell you to to take what

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you're taking, but keep doing
what's working for you because

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it's fantastic to see this part
of you.

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I'm here with Amanda Rayner, one
of our big kratom advocates in

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the community.
So excited to finally have you

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on the podcast, Amanda, because
I want to hear your kratom

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story.
And I know others in our

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community probably would like to
hear it too because your name is

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out there.
You're always doing stuff here.

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So we want to know more about
you.

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Welcome to the podcast.
Thank you.

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Thank you.
It's about time.

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I'm glad to be here.
Yeah, well I I can't wait to

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hear your story and learn more
about your kratom journey.

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So let's start with you telling
us a little bit about yourself

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and life before kratom.
OK, well life before kratom.

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At the age of nine, I was put on
pain medication for migraines.

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At this point they had done a
slew of different medications.

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Nothing was working.
They technically couldn't

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diagnose you as migraines until
you're like 15, but this was

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something I dealt with on a
regular basis.

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So they handed me a nice bottle
of 60 Vicodin per month.

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Per month.
My parents, you know, had it and

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I was taking at least one pill
at least a day and sadly was on

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them for 30 years.
Between migraines, fibromyalgia,

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I live with 10 out of 20 of the
most painful conditions to live

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with trigeminal neuralgia being
one of them.

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It's also known as the suicide
disease, depression, anxiety,

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high blood pressure, all kinds
of stuff, degenerative and

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cervical.
This disease, you know, that's

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not even listed as a painful
condition to live with and it's

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more painful than some of my
other ones.

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So I mean, long list of back
issues that started about 2425

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years ago and it's just, it's, I
was told 15 years ago that I

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have the back of an 80 year old
and I was like, oh great.

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I was told the same thing too.
Oh my God, yeah, there's like a

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back of an 80 year old.
I'm like, wow, I only imagine

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what it is now.
I mean, I was 59 and now I'm 5-6

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and three quarters.
I've also developed scoliosis

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now as an adult because of the
degenerative and cervical disc

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disease and like the crushing.
So that's starting on my my

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lower back.
It's starting to just kind of

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wind up.
Didn't know we can do that it as

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an adult.
I thought it was something you

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were born with.
So that was, that was two years

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ago.
That was the most recent

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diagnosis.
But yeah, there was, you know,

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30 years of pain medication what
sent me down the rabbit hole

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looking for an alternative to
what I was doing 'cause it

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wasn't helping, you know, I
mean, we had the opiate

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epidemic.
And, you know, my doctor just

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straight out said I can't give
you what you need.

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I can't, I can't give you what
you need because legally I'm

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bound to doctor's rules.
And I got it, you know, I

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totally got it.
I did what I could.

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I was bed bound most of the
time.

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You know, I was a teacher, I was
a hair stylist, I was a dental

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assistant.
I had, I get bored.

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I need something to do.
I can't sit still.

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So I had something always going
on.

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I taught infant through
kindergarten and on the side I

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was doing nannying and I did
that and did that for 2425 years

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and had to give that up about 7
years ago full time, which I

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miss.
I miss it.

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I much rather be working.
I don't want to be disabled.

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I mean, 47 years old, that's
not, that's not the life I

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thought I was going to have for
myself.

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But I started looking for
alternatives almost 13 years

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ago.
My mom had passed away from a

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cocktail of medication over an 8
month span from a small back

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injury that she had at work, and
morphine and tramadol was what

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ultimately took her life.
It was acute intoxication.

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It was not an overdose.
She was not taking more than

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what she was prescribed.
She was taking less.

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She did not like the way that it
made her feel, but that's what

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took her life.
And losing my father seven

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months and one day prior to that
to a diabetes and then my mom,

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it scared me.
It absolutely scared me 'cause

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it's just me and my son and both
my grandparents on my mom's side

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never made it to 60.
My parents never made it to 60

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and I've got a kid.
So I was like, OK, I need to

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find more healthier alternative
because this is killing me.

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It was, I was literally bed
bound.

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I was depressed.
I was taking, God, I don't even

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know, like 1/1 at one point I
was taking six anti anxiety

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medications a day, breakthrough
panic attack types, you know,

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and it was just, it was a lot,
it was a lot.

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When I found kratom, I was
lurking, I, I went online, I

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started lurking in these kratom
groups and I'm, you know, like,

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Oh yeah, this one little plant
is doing everything everybody

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says like, you know, so and so
stop drinking alcohol or, you

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know, this other person has been
helping it with pain and this

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other person uses that like a
pre workout.

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And I'm like, OK, OK, sure.
So I lurked literally for two

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years and I started, you know,
following along and started

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talking to a couple of people in
the, in the community, Stephanie

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Sue being one of them.
She was one of my, one of my

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very first friends in the
community.

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And you know, we kind of, we
kind of had our, our creative

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journey around the same time,
you know, 2016 is when we really

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kind of just like fully dove in
and I took my first dose.

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It was May 5th, it was Cinco de
Mayo.

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And that was 8 1/2 years ago.
I've not looked back.

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I was able to, to go, I think it
was like 2 1/2, three weeks

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after I was able to go to my
son's high school graduation,

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sit on those hard bleachers that
there's no way I wouldn't have

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been able to sit there for 10
minutes without, you know,

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wiggling around and moving and
getting up.

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And I sat there for the whole 3
1/2 hours of his high school

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graduation.
Four years later, did it for his

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college graduation.
And I wouldn't have been able to

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do it if I was stuck on pain
meds.

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I, you know, I have my life back
because of kratom.

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You know, I'm 100 lbs lighter
now I'm able to get out of bed

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and, you know, do simple things
like shower or go to the grocery

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store where I couldn't do that
before.

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I had my my ex who was doing my
shopping, you know, we were

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together at the time, but he was
doing all the shopping, you

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know, and it took me a good
whole week to clean my house.

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And by the time that week was
up, then I had to start again.

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So switching to kratom versus
the pain pills has been a life

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changer.
I've not had to take over 50,000

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pills and I've like honestly
stopped counting and that's 8

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1/2 years.
So in 50,000 pills, I mean,

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that's money missing out of big
Pharma's pocket, I'm sure.

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But that's, there's no price on
me having my life back.

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And that that I think, I think
I'm going to forever be grateful

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for.
You know, I've utilized kratom

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for 8 1/2 years and I have
started taking 7OH back in the

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end of 2023.
It came on the market.

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You know, we've got all the
other extracts that have been

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there between the 50, the 50X
with the little crystal ones.

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I mean, I've seen every extract,
I've tried every extract and 708

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actually has its benefits.
I at first didn't, didn't want

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to even fancy the idea.
I thought it was a terrible

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idea.
I was going to jump ship from

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the vendor that I had been
working for for the last, I

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think it was like 5 and a half,
six years at that point because

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I've been with him about 7 1/2,
almost eight years now.

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And I was like, no, this is
crazy.

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I started listening to words of
just the AKA and going this is

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what they're saying is bad.
And you know, this is going to

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ban our plant and I can't be
without the plant because, you

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know, I don't think I'd be alive
today if I was still on the

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pills.
I also have Crohn's.

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So trying 7 O was it was
beneficial to me.

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It was beneficial to me because
there was days that I couldn't

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take kratom and which left me
stuck in bed if I was in a

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Crohn's flare for a week, 2
weeks, 3 weeks a month at a

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time.
And I'm not able to take my

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powder that sent not only my
mental health, but my physical

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health in a downward spiral.
So when I had the seven O the

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teeniest little, you know, like
3030 milligram scoop and it's

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like literally, I mean it's like
a little, it's like a little

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dusting.
It's so little.

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And that was it.
And I was good for about four to

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six hours and I didn't need
anything, but it still gave me

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what I needed to get whatever I
needed done during the day.

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I don't take it every day.
My dose has never changed

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between kratom and 708.
It's been the same for 8 1/2

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years.
I take 7 1/2 grams of Kratom

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every time I dose, whether it be
one time a day.

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The most I've dosed in in high
pain fashion is 6 times a day.

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But that's like, you know, a
very busy day if I'm out and

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about doing something or was on
vacation with family.

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So I kinda, I was go, go, go,
but I wouldn't have been able to

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do that with my pain pills.
I made it through and it's, it's

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just been, it's been wonderful
being able to find myself again,

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you know, because you, you're,
you're dealt this pain.

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It's pain management for the
rest of your life.

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You're not getting the pain meds
that are supposed to help.

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And they honestly did it.
And I thought, I don't know if

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my body just got used to them.
I've been on them for 30 years.

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I wasn't getting relief.
It was miserable.

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I felt awful mentally,
physically.

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And now I'm like, I feel like a
new me.

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I feel like I have myself back.
Do I, do I have bad days?

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Absolutely.
Am I in pain 24/7?

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Absolutely.
But this is manageable for me

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now.
I can live my life.

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I can go to a concert.
I can, you know, go out and

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dance.
Am I going to pay for it the

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next day?
You betcha.

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But I wouldn't have been able to
go do that.

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And for me, that's good for my
mental health, you know, and my

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therapist too, She's just like,
you know this.

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I've seen such a transformation
in you in the last 10 years.

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And you know, she's like, I
can't tell you to to take what

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you're taking, but keep doing
what's working for you because

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it's fantastic to see this part
of you.

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And that's just I'm grateful.
I'm just grateful for this

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plant.
I advocate very loud for this

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plant.
I'm sure it pisses people off,

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but I'm not, I'm not going to
not fight for something that not

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only works for me, but works for
what the hundreds of million

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people that we've got taking
this plant.

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You know, it's like the numbers
speak for itself.

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The science is there.
I mean, we are the science, we

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are the science.
Like come interview us.

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Hi, like we are the science.
Like do a test on me.

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Go right ahead.
Here's my levels, here's my

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blood work, like here's my organ
scans.

221
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,400
Everything is drastically
improving.

222
00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,520
So tell me how this plant is bad
for me.

223
00:11:39,160 --> 00:11:42,760
That's kind of that's kind of
how I see it with with the way

224
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,160
that no, this is bad for you or
this extract is bad for you.

225
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,480
And I'm just like, well, no, no,
I'm living my best life over

226
00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:51,160
here.
My blood work's fantastic.

227
00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:55,360
My organs are like reversing the
damage that 30 years of pain

228
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:59,040
medication and you know,
depression, anxiety, blood

229
00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,360
pressure medication, all that's
gone.

230
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:03,240
I don't have any of that
medication.

231
00:12:03,240 --> 00:12:06,800
I take an, I take an anti nausea
pill other than that and an, and

232
00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:09,680
an allergy pill.
That's what I take that and the

233
00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:13,200
occasional I have the occasional
muscle relaxer because my body

234
00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,920
just doesn't stop.
So that that gives me at least,

235
00:12:15,920 --> 00:12:18,200
at least solid 3 hours of sleep
a night.

236
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,680
But other than that, I'm just
going and I'm just, you know,

237
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:25,760
living my my daily life the best
that I can with what I've been

238
00:12:25,880 --> 00:12:29,480
dealt with.
Wow, what an amazing story.

239
00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,840
Amanda, I, I, I love that this
plant has given you your life

240
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:35,920
back.
I can totally relate because I

241
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:38,960
it has for me as well.
I wasn't on pain meds as long as

242
00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,320
you were.
I was for nine years every day

243
00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:44,640
and for my degenerative disc
disease and I have it in both my

244
00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:47,280
neck and back.
And just like you, like so much

245
00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:49,840
of you were saying parallels my
experience.

246
00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:52,880
It, it helped, but it wasn't
that great.

247
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:55,800
I, I was able to do some things,
but I couldn't do everything and

248
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,400
I was doing less and less stuff.
And it's very depressing and,

249
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,880
and you're constantly in pain
and you just can't get out.

250
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:06,040
Like I always felt like there
was a black cloud over me all

251
00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,280
the time.
And it's, it's hard to live life

252
00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:10,760
like that.
And yeah, when this is a

253
00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,320
degenerative thing, it only gets
worse.

254
00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,880
It does.
And I, I just like you had a top

255
00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:23,280
surgeon in my city tell me very
close to you about 13 years ago,

256
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:28,480
said to me, looking at my X-rays
and Mris, this, this looks like

257
00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:34,600
somebody in their 80s.
I'm like jaw drop like what?

258
00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,560
And he's like, there's nothing I
can do.

259
00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:41,200
I'm like, how'd this happen?
Well, you're he this he quote,

260
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,640
you were dealt a bad hand.
That's what he said to me.

261
00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:47,040
And he said before he stormed
out of the room.

262
00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,880
Because I he would only give me
like literally one minute of his

263
00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,560
time.
If I were you I would get off

264
00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:55,760
the pain pills and do yoga and
swimming.

265
00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:58,120
Yeah, just exercise.
Lock the door.

266
00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:02,360
And I'm thinking, what the F
just happened?

267
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,880
And I was in shock.
And I'm like, this is healthcare

268
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:11,120
at its finest, you know?
They just don't care.

269
00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:12,560
Yeah.
They don't care.

270
00:14:12,560 --> 00:14:15,440
No, I mean, when I was told
that, you know, surgery wasn't

271
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:20,000
an option for me, in a sense, I
was very grateful because I had

272
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,400
heard nothing but disaster
stories because like with

273
00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,320
degenerative and cervical disc
disease, it's a ladder effect.

274
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:30,040
And I mean mine, you know, mine
started at the, at the shoulders

275
00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:32,360
and it went to the neck.
And then I've got my lower, you

276
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,920
know, everybody, I think
everybody's dealing with L1S5

277
00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,040
issues, you know, in that area,
everybody's got that.

278
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,280
And it's just a ladder effect.
So they said if they fused it,

279
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,720
it would just be fused and fused
and fused.

280
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,960
And then basically you'd be so
stiff you wouldn't be able to

281
00:14:44,960 --> 00:14:48,440
move and you'd be in more pain.
And I had two surgeons tell me

282
00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,960
that and as much as I was
irritated with not getting any

283
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:55,200
help, that was the best help I
could have gotten.

284
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,800
No surgery because I would have
been in way more pain than I am

285
00:14:58,800 --> 00:15:01,160
in now.
Right.

286
00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:03,200
Yeah.
And a lot of doctors push for

287
00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:04,880
that because that's how they
make their living.

288
00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:08,760
And I went to a surgeon before
this other one that said

289
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:10,960
basically the same thing.
The only thing I can do to help

290
00:15:10,960 --> 00:15:13,360
you would be a fusion.
But he says I don't recommend

291
00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,200
it.
And, and basically like what you

292
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:20,760
just laid out because it, it
just does that domino effect and

293
00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,960
it gets to the point where
you're way worse off.

294
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,080
And I'm just, I'm glad I didn't
do all that, but I did do the

295
00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:30,000
steroid injections and the radio
frequency ablation.

296
00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,920
Oh yeah, I had that done a year
and a half ago and it's actually

297
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,720
doing really well.
I'm kind of like surprised.

298
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:38,800
I was really surprised.
I mean, I had the the radio

299
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:41,880
frequency ablation.
I did the epidural steroid

300
00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:43,920
injections.
I mean, currently I'm going

301
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:45,920
through trigger point injections
up here.

302
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:49,320
What a, what a game changer.
I was like, oh, this is great,

303
00:15:49,320 --> 00:15:51,600
you know, and next I'm going to
start doing needling and

304
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,840
acupuncture because it really
gets down into the core of the

305
00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,720
muscle that's just kind of
bunched up like a giant knot,

306
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:00,840
which then pulls everything in
our back together and makes it,

307
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:03,360
you know, hurt.
Yeah.

308
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:05,120
And it's just finding what works
for you.

309
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:08,120
You know, I did all of those and
I, I did a total.

310
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:10,320
I found all, like all my
paperwork when I moved a few

311
00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,600
years ago.
And I was like, I had done a

312
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:15,160
total between the epidural
steroid injections and the

313
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:18,240
radiofrequency ablations.
And this is neck, back and SI

314
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,760
joint.
Over the course of about two or

315
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:23,920
three years, I did a total of 12
of all of those.

316
00:16:24,000 --> 00:16:26,680
And the only thing that ever
epidural steroid injections

317
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:30,040
never helped me ever, ever.
And you know, most times not

318
00:16:30,040 --> 00:16:31,960
everybody seems to get
anesthesia.

319
00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:35,640
Thank God I always did 'cause
people would say some horror

320
00:16:35,640 --> 00:16:39,360
stories of like, oh, my doctor
doesn't do anesthesia for that.

321
00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:41,640
And I'm like what?
Yeah, I was too terrified.

322
00:16:41,640 --> 00:16:44,720
I, I made them stay awake.
I, I was like, no, I'll be awake

323
00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:49,280
and watch the whole thing.
I mean, I, I, I had, I had a £9

324
00:16:49,280 --> 00:16:52,240
kid with no epidural.
I was terrified because of my

325
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:56,200
back issues.
Them going in just blindly could

326
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,000
paralyze me, you know, could
paralyze anybody.

327
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:01,120
But then you have my back issues
on top of it.

328
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,880
And I was like, no thanks.
I ended up with Lyme disease and

329
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,960
Bell's palsy.
I made them do it over do it

330
00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:08,760
over the thing.
Oh, so, you know, dealing with

331
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,680
long term Lyme conditions, you
know, inflammation, long term

332
00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:14,800
COVID issues, inflammation.
It's just, you know, the

333
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,359
littlest bit of, you know,
illness sets us off.

334
00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:21,280
Like us, people who have the
inflammation and the pain, like

335
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,079
it's a set back.
It's such a set back.

336
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,000
We got to just do what we got to
keep doing just to keep

337
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:31,240
ourselves in a good space, you
know, like mentally, physically,

338
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,080
this is what works for us.
It's what I'm going to keep

339
00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:35,840
doing, you know?
And that's what I love about

340
00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:37,520
kratom.
I mean, who knew this little

341
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:41,920
plant could help us so much, not
just with pain, but to just make

342
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,760
us feel better and not have that
black cloud over us anymore.

343
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,560
Well, you gotta think without
the pain, your mood is

344
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:54,080
automatically like, you know,
and I'll and I'll use and I'll

345
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:56,520
and I'm gonna use the word
euphoric because I hear that a

346
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,520
lot in the community.
I see that a lot in the

347
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:00,680
community and I'm like, well,
what is euphoria 'cause I'm

348
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:01,800
like, what are you talking
about?

349
00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:05,200
Like for me, if I'm like, you
know, can't say pain free

350
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,280
because I'm always in pain.
But if my pain is tolerable and

351
00:18:08,280 --> 00:18:10,920
manageable and I can do
something, well, hell, that's

352
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:14,040
euphoric to me because that's a
great mood.

353
00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,880
It's a, it's a huge mood boost.
You know, it's, it's that it's,

354
00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:22,160
it's pure happiness And that to
me that's, that's what euphoria

355
00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:23,480
is.
I'm like, you know, that's my

356
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,040
happiness.
I don't know what everybody else

357
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,720
is getting out of it, but I'm
like, I'm not in pain.

358
00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:30,440
OK, this is fantastic.
You know, this is what this is

359
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:33,480
what I need.
That's a great way of putting it

360
00:18:33,480 --> 00:18:37,440
because I, I think euphoria is
such a generic term and whenever

361
00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,720
I hear that I think psychedelic
or getting really high or

362
00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:44,960
something and I'm just like you,
Kratom takes the pain away from

363
00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,280
me and I get serious pain
relief.

364
00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,240
I, I still, I, I just assumed
everybody gets what I get and

365
00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:54,200
like my, my pain level goes to
like a zero, maybe a one or two.

366
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:58,960
It lasts for about 5 or 6 hours
and I, I'm completely blown away

367
00:18:58,960 --> 00:19:02,800
because with my heavy duty pain
pills, we're talking Oxycontin.

368
00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:06,000
I think the highest Oxycontin I
was on was like a 40 milligram

369
00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:07,960
twice a day.
And then I was taking probably

370
00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:11,760
about 6 Percocets a day for the
breakthrough and, and muscle

371
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,480
relaxers.
My MME was almost 200.

372
00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:17,600
It was really high, but I'm also
a very quick processor.

373
00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,240
I did the pharmacokinetic
testing my, my pain management

374
00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:23,880
doctor was smart enough to have
me do that because it protects

375
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:28,320
him, you know, and it shows that
I processed them quickly.

376
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,520
But when I was getting to the
point that I needed a Percocet

377
00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,200
every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, it was
very concerning because I, my

378
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,920
tolerance would get, get, you
know, really jacked up.

379
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:42,960
But to find a plant that just
takes so much of that away from

380
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,000
me.
So I'm like, I'm seriously like,

381
00:19:45,440 --> 00:19:48,280
I don't feel like somebody that
that is a chronic pain patient

382
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,880
anymore.
I feel, well, much better and I

383
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,240
can just be comfortable and I
can relax.

384
00:19:53,440 --> 00:19:56,960
I mean, yes, I get flare ups.
Yes, I struggle still like, but

385
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,360
nothing like the level I did
before.

386
00:19:59,360 --> 00:20:02,000
So it's so interesting hearing
your story because it's just so

387
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,520
similar.
And I think people that don't

388
00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,160
suffer pain at the level you and
I do don't understand.

389
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:09,760
No, they don't.
No, they don't.

390
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,880
I and it's and I don't wish it
on anybody, like not even my

391
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:16,360
worst enemy, like, you know,
like I, I would not want anyone

392
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,280
else to feel the pain that I
feel because it's not, it's not

393
00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,800
a fun way of living.
You know, it's like, I remember

394
00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:27,960
being, you know, being with my
pharmaceuticals, I'm like, OK, I

395
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:30,720
have Vicodin and then, you know,
in the middle of that it's

396
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,320
Tylenol and oh, hold on, in the
middle of that breakthrough,

397
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,680
here's a perc 30 and oh, wait,
two hours later take an

398
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:39,920
ibuprofen because we have to
constantly stay on top of it.

399
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,840
So you got a 4-5, you know, 6
hour dose span between your

400
00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,360
first pill and your last pill
and what all is taken in

401
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,600
between.
And I'm like 15, you know, I'm

402
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,480
about 15 pills deep by the time
5 or 6 hours has gone by.

403
00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:02,640
I take 3 level scoops of my my
powder and I do the toss and

404
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,240
wash.
I just toss it right back and

405
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,440
swallow.
You know, I can shake it up and

406
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:07,720
make the muddy water.
I could.

407
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,280
You know, I've done the kratom
too, just it doesn't work for

408
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:11,960
me.
It's just not strong enough.

409
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,760
Plus I feel like I'm having to
go pee constantly because I'm

410
00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:16,080
constantly having to drink
water.

411
00:21:16,080 --> 00:21:20,760
But it's like you take 3 little
teaspoons and I'm good.

412
00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:25,000
Sometimes I'm good from my
morning dose and I'm good for

413
00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:26,680
the day.
And that's all I need.

414
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,840
That's all I need.
And it's like, well, I'm not a

415
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,120
walking pharmacist anymore.
I'd walk around this big, you

416
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,920
know, separate purse from my
purse just to carry all of my

417
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:39,160
pharmaceuticals around just to
get through.

418
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:41,880
And it's like, you know, it's
like you're robbing Peter to pay

419
00:21:41,880 --> 00:21:44,600
Paul type of a situation.
You're like, Oh well, let me let

420
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:48,440
me justify.
I'm in a crap ton of pain right

421
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,160
now.
I need this.

422
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,920
I need this because I can't get
up and raise my son or go to

423
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:57,560
work that I had to do as a
single mom and dad.

424
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,080
I had to go to work.
I had no choice.

425
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:03,960
I work 3 different jobs to make
sure that my kid was supported.

426
00:22:04,240 --> 00:22:06,320
So it's like I'm sitting there
going Oh well if I take this

427
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,920
pill now then that means I can't
take one in the morning.

428
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:11,600
And it's like, that's not a way
to live.

429
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:14,040
That's not a way to live.
I don't want someone dictating

430
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,080
like how I could take my
medication and what's going to

431
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,040
work for me because they're not
me.

432
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:22,880
They're not, you know, it's like
it's these are the rules.

433
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,160
You can only take a pain pill
every four to six hours.

434
00:22:25,360 --> 00:22:28,240
That's not working for me.
I'm going to take a couple of

435
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,240
scoops of Kratom and that's good
for me.

436
00:22:30,520 --> 00:22:33,120
And I don't need, I don't, I
don't have to ask anybody.

437
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,680
I don't have to go to a
prescription and fill it.

438
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:39,200
I don't have to feel bad if I
need an extra dose of something

439
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:43,600
because I would mentally, I
would beat myself up and I would

440
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:45,200
be so depressed.
I wouldn't go out and do

441
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,160
anything like I would work and
I'd go home and be mom.

442
00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:51,160
And that's I can't even have the
energy for that.

443
00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,040
But that's all I could do.
And I did that for years and

444
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,280
years and years.
And now it's like, you know, my

445
00:22:56,280 --> 00:22:59,880
son's 26 years old and, you
know, I, I saw him graduate high

446
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:03,320
school and graduate college.
I wouldn't have been able to do

447
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:06,560
that without kratom.
I probably would not be here

448
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:09,080
alive today if it wasn't for
kratom.

449
00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:11,960
The pills were killing me.
The pills killed my mother.

450
00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,560
And I was, I was on the way out.
If I did not switch something up

451
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:20,040
after 30 years of pain
medication, I needed to change.

452
00:23:21,280 --> 00:23:23,640
Yeah, yeah.
And I'm so glad you found

453
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,280
kratom.
Now, going back to when you

454
00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,640
first discovered it, I know you
were talking about doing all

455
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,440
that research.
Do you remember like the very,

456
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:31,680
very first time you heard about
it?

457
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,600
I did.
I did.

458
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,480
A friend of mine had told me
about it.

459
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:39,160
They're like, oh, you know,
check out the American Kratom

460
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:41,280
Association.
There's a couple of vendors on

461
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:45,440
there, you know, and I tried one
of their vendors and I ended up

462
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:49,400
in the hospital for a week
because I got sick from mold and

463
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,600
E coli and I'm like, OK, like
I'm like, I didn't, you know, I

464
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,520
wasn't non on a piece of chicken
or anything.

465
00:23:54,600 --> 00:24:02,440
I raw chicken like it came from
the product and, you know, back

466
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:08,200
then like A and it and a lot of
the consumers are who really

467
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,920
started holding vendors
responsible.

468
00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:15,600
You know, back when I started
taking it in 2016, it was in a

469
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,800
you know, it wasn't a Ziploc bag
was Sharpie written on it, you

470
00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:21,360
know, and it's like like, OK,
great.

471
00:24:21,360 --> 00:24:24,080
Like do you trust this person?
Everything is word of mouth,

472
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:28,840
like no, like and I got I got
accused of being especiosa

473
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:32,040
Republic or the Sr. group
because I mean, I was asking

474
00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:33,880
vendors left and right.
They wanted me to try their

475
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,360
Kratom will find.
I need pictures of your pictures

476
00:24:36,360 --> 00:24:40,280
and video of your lab room with
some sort of proof that this is

477
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,440
yours and not just some Google
image.

478
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:47,040
And I want current labs and I
like I got a lot of grief for

479
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:48,080
it.
But you know what though?

480
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,080
Like if it meant protecting what
I was putting in my body, then

481
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,040
that means other people I know
that I was referring to, Hey,

482
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:58,680
this is really working for me.
This is what works for me.

483
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,600
I can share it, I can give you
my knowledge, you can give it a

484
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,120
try and take what works for you
and go with it and see if it

485
00:25:04,120 --> 00:25:06,800
works.
And I, I almost didn't try it

486
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:09,960
again after I got sick.
I didn't, I was terrified.

487
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,680
I, I almost waited almost a full
year.

488
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:16,280
And so I technically the first
time I tried it was 2015.

489
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,600
Didn't, didn't go back to it
after I ended up in the

490
00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,840
hospital.
And then a a nice, nice lady

491
00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:23,640
that was in the Kratom
community, you know, kind of

492
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:26,480
took me under her wing and she's
like, she taught me everything.

493
00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:29,600
You know, I mean, I journaled
everything and wrote it all down

494
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,120
and, you know, just really just
dove into wanting to know

495
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,760
anything and everything about
it.

496
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:37,280
And that's, you know, I started
working for a vendor and I

497
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:39,440
started working for another
vendor just, you know, kind of

498
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,600
just helping people out, you
know, just helping, you know,

499
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,480
spread the word of Kratom.
And then I was like, you know,

500
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:47,160
like we're all about lab
testing, we're all about

501
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,640
compliance.
And, and I, and I hold vendors.

502
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:54,560
I, I do, I hold them responsible
because it's just like going out

503
00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,560
to dinner, you know, somewhere
to a restaurant.

504
00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:00,720
You're not going to go walk into
a door that's got like AD rating

505
00:26:00,920 --> 00:26:03,440
and they're, you know, they're
cleanliness is nasty and they've

506
00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:06,200
got, you know, you want to know
that the food you're putting in

507
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,200
your mouth is going to be OK.
Well, it's the same, it's the

508
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,000
same that goes for Kratom.
You know, it's the GMP compliant

509
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,280
standards.
It's not hard to follow.

510
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:18,520
It's really not proper labeling,
you know, proper packing, proper

511
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,480
storage.
It's not, it's not that it's

512
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:26,000
really not that hard.
It's not, you know, it's few

513
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:27,760
extra steps.
If this is what you want to do

514
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,400
in your business and you want to
provide for people to have

515
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,080
better lives than, you know,
providing the, the, the safety

516
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:38,680
is going to, it's going to, it's
going to make a lot of people at

517
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,520
at ease.
And it did me, you know, and

518
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:45,720
that's why I ended up in 2016.
I ended up trying Cat's Kratom

519
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:51,240
and that's where I started back
out again and haven't looked

520
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,800
back.
I have not looked back.

521
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,640
I use quite a few vendors.
You know, I support, I support a

522
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,200
lot of vendors.
You know, everybody's like, oh,

523
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,040
you work for a vendor, you only
use their product.

524
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:02,840
And I'm like, no, I don't.
In fact, the vendor that I use

525
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,520
also buys from other vendors
because we support each other in

526
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,000
this community because this is a
family, you know, this has

527
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,320
turned into a family.
I love my kratom community,

528
00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:13,400
absolutely love this community
I've got.

529
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:17,160
I've got more friends in this
community now that I'm closer to

530
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:19,360
than I than people I've ever
even met in real life.

531
00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:23,640
It's it's an amazing community.
It really is, yeah.

532
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,880
I I love our Krame community.
People are just so amazing here.

533
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,760
Wow, your story is just so
incredibly interesting.

534
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,160
So you had a terrible experience
and I can totally see where it's

535
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,160
like being compliant, like being
more interested in these

536
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:43,920
companies being GMP certified
compliant.

537
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,960
How can we not?
Like of course, the AKA has

538
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:51,760
their GMP certified.
I've done a lot of research.

539
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,680
I've, I've learned a lot about
this more recently to understand

540
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:57,560
it because I know there are
companies out there that are,

541
00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:01,720
that are following like it's a
self regulated industry.

542
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,200
I wish there was more
regulation, but we're trusting

543
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,800
the companies and, and the
manufacturers with the AKA.

544
00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:14,520
My understanding is they're just
certifying that you did go

545
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:17,120
through the whole GNP
compliance, you know, through

546
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:20,320
all the proper channels.
And so this is an extra layer of

547
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,120
protection.
And there's their list on their

548
00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:25,640
website, but I also know vendors
that are not on that website

549
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,240
that are GNP compliant.
And I think there's this

550
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:31,040
misconception that if they're
not, and this is not to knock

551
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,680
the AKA, but people, I think I'm
assuming that if they're not on

552
00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:39,760
that list, then they're not
following GMP and that is not

553
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,400
the case.
Yeah, yeah, I've, I've, I've

554
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:45,240
found that a lot with people in
the community, you know, they're

555
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,960
like, oh, well, you know, I
strictly go off of the AKA list

556
00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:50,960
and I'm like, well, I support
that, you know, like good.

557
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,360
Because they're setting a good
precedence for holding vendors

558
00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:57,000
accountable to what is
acceptable and what's not.

559
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,000
But there are, like you said,
there are so many vendors that

560
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,440
are not on that list.
They're not.

561
00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:07,360
And I, I definitely support the
vendors, you know, I mean, you

562
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:11,480
know, I, you can ask for a live
video of their clean room, you

563
00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,720
know, and make sure that they've
got like their logo or something

564
00:29:14,720 --> 00:29:17,480
in the background, even them,
you know, like, hey, you know,

565
00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:20,480
hey, this is my clean room.
If, if they're a compliant

566
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,280
vendor, they're not going to
mind doing that.

567
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,080
You know, you've got your shed
vendors, your home kitchen

568
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,320
vendors and they're still out
there, you know, and everybody

569
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,520
goes off of word of mouth and
and oh, you know, so and so is

570
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,000
nice or so and so is cheaper.
And it's like sometimes, you

571
00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:37,680
know, that's all great and
everything, but it's not, it's

572
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:41,320
not what's helping our
community, it's what's hurting

573
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,200
it because we have those that
are still not properly

574
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,920
practicing the safe standards.
Yeah, it's so incredibly

575
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:51,560
important.
You don't want people getting

576
00:29:51,560 --> 00:29:53,080
sick.
It's terrible that you ended up

577
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,560
in the hospital from that.
Another one of our community

578
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:58,160
members has has gone through
something similar where she got

579
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,360
tainted kratom years ago, got
very, very ill.

580
00:30:01,640 --> 00:30:04,680
And that's something none of us
should go through ever.

581
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:07,360
Like if you're going to be in
business doing this, do

582
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:12,400
everything right.
And so learning more about GMP

583
00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:16,640
is make is prompting me to
because I do have like my own

584
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:20,360
approved, like Madeleine's
approved kratom vendors like,

585
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:23,240
and it's my just the ones that I
buy mine from that I've done the

586
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,960
research and and I like the ones
that are transparent and super

587
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,240
legit.
And some are on the AK as list

588
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,120
and some are not.
But the ones that are not I know

589
00:30:36,120 --> 00:30:39,160
are doing everything right.
But I'm now learning like OK,

590
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,920
I'm going to send some questions
to all these companies and you

591
00:30:41,920 --> 00:30:44,120
just mentioning ask for a video
the clean room.

592
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,880
Brilliant.
I'm adding that to my list now I

593
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:48,840
want to I want to do what the
AKA does.

594
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,840
I want to have that extra layer
for my Peace of Mind.

595
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,360
But also to anybody that you
know sees my list and want to

596
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,760
they trust me.
So they want to buy off of the

597
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:02,640
ones I recommend that there is
that extra like they are

598
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:07,760
following these at least the
best 2 are yeah, instead of just

599
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,040
OK, they said they are or
they're nice people or like you

600
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,200
know, some of the things you
mentioned.

601
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:14,600
So I think it's incredibly
important.

602
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:16,960
So thanks for sharing all that.
I never thought about asking for

603
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:18,840
a live video of the clean room.
Yeah, yeah.

604
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:21,840
I mean, you know, you're gonna,
you're gonna get first hand, you

605
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:26,080
know, and I mean, I've seen, I'm
sure you've seen happy hippos

606
00:31:26,080 --> 00:31:27,760
like all their ton of their
videos.

607
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,280
They have fantastic, they have
fantastic videos.

608
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:31,440
And you don't even have to ask
them.

609
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:33,000
They're just willingly putting
it up.

610
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,680
You know, there's a lot of
vendors that'll have labs right

611
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,560
on their site, you know, and
granted, depending on how fast

612
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,200
they're going through product,
it's a it's a lot to keep up

613
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,400
with on this website.
You know, working for a vendor,

614
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:47,120
I do all the customer service,
all the online customer service.

615
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:49,600
It's a it's a lot, It's a lot.
You know, it's like we get a new

616
00:31:49,600 --> 00:31:52,560
product in and it's like, OK,
well, this lab isn't on the site

617
00:31:52,560 --> 00:31:53,560
yet.
Yeah, no problem.

618
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,600
We'll get you the lab.
It's just haven't had time to

619
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,240
put it up, but we got it.
You know, we don't sell anything

620
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:02,760
that doesn't have labs.
There's I can't even tell you

621
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:06,320
how much product has been thrown
out over the years because it

622
00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,920
fails labs, you know, and it's
like you don't get your money

623
00:32:09,920 --> 00:32:11,840
back.
You just toss it in the trash

624
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,280
and you're out thousands and
thousands of dollars, you know,

625
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:16,360
and these are what vendors go
through.

626
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,520
You know, this is unfortunately,
this is the business right now.

627
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,320
You know, it's, it's tough.
It's very tough, especially

628
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:24,320
with, you know, the import laws
going on.

629
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,080
And it's it's getting ugly out
there.

630
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:31,400
It's getting really ugly.
Yeah, but as us being the end

631
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:35,200
consumers, we wanna know what
we're getting is safe and not

632
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:39,200
gonna harm us.
Well, let's now talk about 708.

633
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:43,160
So you said you discover 708 a
few years ago and that seemed to

634
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,680
be right when it was emerging,
right?

635
00:32:44,840 --> 00:32:48,440
Yeah, it came out like mid it
like I started hearing about it

636
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,600
kind of like mid 2023 I started
hearing talks about it and then,

637
00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:57,680
you know, the tablets came out
and it was it was a game

638
00:32:57,720 --> 00:32:59,520
changer.
Like I was like, oh, I'm not

639
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,400
going to try this, I'm not going
to try this.

640
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:03,600
And I was like, oh, you know, I
mean I even was like, I'm not

641
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,160
going to work.
I'm not going to work for this

642
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,920
vendor because you know, it's a
it's a product that's

643
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,200
adulterated.
It's not pure yes, there is a

644
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,480
small amount that is already
naturally occurring in in

645
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,040
kratom.
You know, and just like the MIT

646
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:22,160
extracts, they're extracting it
the same exact way as they are 7

647
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,240
O.
So if the MIT extracts are safe

648
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:29,480
and you do your, you know, your
research, you know, you go

649
00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:34,160
online, you, you, you read all
the good, all the bad, you know,

650
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,160
do judge it yourself.
You know, you are, you are your

651
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,520
best judge of character for your
own personal self, what goes in

652
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:42,640
your body, what you're going to
do.

653
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,360
And I stopped and I listened.
And again, you know, kind of

654
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,000
like when I joined the kratom
community years ago, I kind of

655
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,680
just sat back and lurked.
And I was like, OK, you know,

656
00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,960
like, my boss was telling me all
kinds of stuff about it.

657
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:57,400
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah,
like, sure, sure, sure.

658
00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,760
You know, I'm like, this is just
going to end up a disaster.

659
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:04,920
You know, I'm like, fine, let me
hear what you have to say.

660
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,960
I was like, fine, you know,
like, I'll try it.

661
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:10,480
I will try it at least once.
I always say I'll try something

662
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:12,040
once.
If it's not for me, I won't try

663
00:34:12,040 --> 00:34:15,480
it again.
I tried it once and I happened

664
00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,920
to try it on a day that my
Crohn's was so bad and my pain

665
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:21,560
was so bad.
I had been in bed for three

666
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,560
days, couldn't get up.
My mail came, my son had brought

667
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,320
in the mail and lo and behold,
there was a tablet.

668
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,600
I split it in half.
I took half of that tablet and I

669
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,120
was like, Oh my God, Oh my God.
Like I feel fantastic.

670
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:37,120
I wasn't, you know, like I
wasn't high.

671
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,480
I wasn't, you know, I wasn't
like, you know, you know, when

672
00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,199
you take a pain Med and you can
feel it in the head, I didn't

673
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,360
get any of that.
I didn't get any of that.

674
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:51,199
You know, I just had relief, not
only with my stomach, I was

675
00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:53,320
actually able to get up and go
eat something, which is

676
00:34:53,320 --> 00:34:57,240
fantastic because like 3 days
like in a Crohn's flare, it's

677
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,440
pretty, pretty bad.
It's pretty bad.

678
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,200
You know, the meds don't work
that they give me.

679
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:04,600
I bet I've been on everything.
I've been on every medication

680
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:07,280
that they could possibly toss
for me and you know, take this

681
00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,440
medication for this side effect
and it's like no, no, and

682
00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:16,120
finding the seven O it like I
was so nervous about it because

683
00:35:16,120 --> 00:35:17,680
I was like, oh, it's going to
take away my plan.

684
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:19,680
It's going to take away kratom.
But then I was like, well, like,

685
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:24,000
you know, look into it really
fine, You know, what is what is

686
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:25,680
the hype?
What is all this talk about?

687
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,560
And I I did a lot of research
and I tried it and I was like,

688
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,520
OK, like it's not what I'm it's
not what, you know, these people

689
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,200
are saying, it's not all of
this.

690
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:37,600
And I'm like, OK, so this isn't
any, this isn't anything

691
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:41,200
different than taking a MIT
extract for me, you know, and it

692
00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:45,080
is all about accountability.
It is, you know, with Kratom,

693
00:35:45,080 --> 00:35:49,200
with, with working out, with
food, with no matter what you do

694
00:35:49,200 --> 00:35:51,800
in life, it's all about
accountability, you know, and

695
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,800
it's, there's a lot of people
out there that just they want it

696
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:58,440
gone because they, you know, the
fear of it taking away their

697
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,120
plant, which I had.
But it's like, stop for a minute

698
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:03,640
and see what is this really
doing?

699
00:36:03,640 --> 00:36:05,960
Is it helping people?
Yes.

700
00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,360
Is the overdose rate down?
Yes.

701
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,680
Is Narcan also helpful in that?
Yes.

702
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,200
But the five, what is it 500
billion doses?

703
00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,240
I think they had said on 7 on 7
Alliance when Wednesday was on,

704
00:36:20,240 --> 00:36:22,800
I think it was like 7 like 500
billion doses or something like

705
00:36:22,800 --> 00:36:29,240
that sold and consumed and we're
having positive results.

706
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,400
If we have that many doses,
we're going to see people

707
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:37,320
flooding the hospitals and we're
not you know, you hear, you hear

708
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,160
few things, but you're not
seeing the proof to back it up.

709
00:36:41,720 --> 00:36:44,240
When I see proof like, hey,
there's people in here, there's

710
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,120
people dying, there's people
respiratory depression, but

711
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,680
there's not there's no
respiratory depression.

712
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,760
It's a semi synthetic just like
a MIT extract.

713
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,120
And I'm, I'm grateful for it.
I am on my hard days.

714
00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:02,480
I, I'm grateful for it because
that gives me the extra boost

715
00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,880
that I need to get going because
if I'm in a flare both

716
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:09,520
physically with my Crohn's,
mentally I'm done.

717
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:11,600
Like I'm done.
I just, I'm done and it's

718
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,080
defeating.
Now I can actually get up and

719
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,240
face the day even on my hard
days.

720
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,600
That's great that it's helping
you, but we also hear on the

721
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,920
flip side, there's so much
potential for abuse.

722
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:26,440
You hear these stories all the
time from people saying I went

723
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:29,280
to a smoke shop, they gave me a
free sample and I was hooked on

724
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,680
it right away.
And I can't stop.

725
00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:34,520
And we here's what's so
interesting, though, Amanda and

726
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:37,800
I know you know this, it
parallels the same conversations

727
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:39,720
with the extracts prior to
seven.

728
00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:44,640
OH, we heard story after story
about people getting addiction

729
00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:47,680
issues with extracts and there
was so many complaints about it.

730
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,360
And now we don't hear about
extracts nearly as much, but

731
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,840
it's 7.
OH, and all these people talk

732
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,200
about they got hooked on it.
But then we hear so many stories

733
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,640
like yours where people say this
has helped me.

734
00:38:00,920 --> 00:38:02,480
I can't get my pain meds
anymore.

735
00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:06,600
This is all and powder doesn't
work on me and this does.

736
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:12,280
So it's it's interesting how
this evolution has happened.

737
00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,720
But what are your thoughts about
the people that are struggling

738
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:17,000
with abuse with this?
A lot of them say they didn't

739
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,000
even know it was what it was.
Well, yeah, a lot of these

740
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,800
people, you know, I mean, if I
had a friend of mine, same

741
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:24,760
thing.
And and I was livid as someone

742
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,480
who consumed 7 ohi was livid
that he walked into a vape shop

743
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,600
to go buy his little vape pod,
you know, his nicotine and

744
00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,400
walked out with a few little
sample size gummies.

745
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,520
And he's like, hey, I just got
this from the from the vape

746
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:39,760
stop.
And I'm not, you know, I was at

747
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,920
a Kava kratom bar here and I'm
like, what do you mean?

748
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,480
Like give me that.
I'm like, you don't need this.

749
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:46,000
Have you ever, you don't even
take kratom?

750
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,520
And he goes, well, what is it?
And I'm like, it's an extract.

751
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,160
Like if you've not even taken
kratom, don't take the seven.

752
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,880
OH, if you have an addictive
personality and you can't hold

753
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,120
yourself responsible, don't take
it.

754
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:04,280
Don't take it because just like
they said back in 2016, 2017,

755
00:39:04,280 --> 00:39:07,760
they used the same exact
language that they are using

756
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,600
with plain leaf kratom now that
they are using with seven O this

757
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,040
is gas station heroin and it's
stronger than morphine.

758
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,320
They used it.
They used the same exact

759
00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,560
language in 2016, seventeen when
we were fighting that huge ban

760
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:24,400
and then we all won.
You know, it's like the DEA was

761
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,960
it, the DEA wanted to schedule
it.

762
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:30,640
They didn't like the FDA.
They used to be all about, oh,

763
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,520
we're this, you know, kratom's
bad, kratom's bad.

764
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,920
And now the FDA is like, no
kratom has potential.

765
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,360
Like it's got benefits, You
know, I mean, here, you know,

766
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,920
that we've, I've been going to
ban hearings left and right.

767
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:48,120
And in Nashua, NH, we had, I
think it was 3 hearings just for

768
00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,360
one.
And the, the Board of Health got

769
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,400
involved.
We were able to, you know, Jen

770
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:58,400
Mercier, freaking powerhouse, A
powerhouse advocate.

771
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,000
I love her.
She's fantastic.

772
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,280
Her and Dylan, both of them
fantastic.

773
00:40:02,280 --> 00:40:05,400
But Jen, you know, she's like
rallies us all together and we

774
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,480
go and we show up and, you know,
she's there and she's getting

775
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,360
the appointment with the, you
know, the Board of Education and

776
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,280
talking, you know, talking to
them with the Board of Health

777
00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:17,000
about, you know, educating them
and on this plant and we won.

778
00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:20,600
It was going to be banned.
We had an Alderman bring it to

779
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,280
our attention to bring this
thing, you know, hey, this is a

780
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,720
ban.
We're going to start here.

781
00:40:25,320 --> 00:40:27,920
Brings his young daughter to
testify, you know, and say, I

782
00:40:27,920 --> 00:40:30,000
think it should be banned.
And I'm just like, oh, this poor

783
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:31,360
girl.
Like great for her.

784
00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:35,240
She wants to be up here and, you
know, but it was not the place

785
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:37,520
for her.
It was not the place for her.

786
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:42,160
But you know, we also dealt
with, you know, the United Way

787
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:45,360
being donated $200,000 to vote
against kratom.

788
00:40:45,360 --> 00:40:49,200
That was 9 votes, 9 automatic
votes just from the United Way.

789
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:53,320
Had we not shown up, the 12 of
us that showed up, it would have

790
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,680
been an immediate ban.
And it's, it's, it's just, it's

791
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,720
amazing to see the people come
together.

792
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:08,680
It's amazing to see how, how
against something that's working

793
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:12,120
for people.
But I mean, it's taking away

794
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:15,880
from big pharma, it's taking
away, you know, the California

795
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:16,480
one.
What was it?

796
00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:19,320
Oh, big pharma, you know, they,
they've got prescription

797
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,480
medication.
There's methadone and Suboxone

798
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:25,880
for those.
Oh my gosh, I, I got like my jaw

799
00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:27,320
about hit the floor with that
one.

800
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:30,800
I'm like, OK, so you know, rot
the teeth out of my face, lose

801
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,720
my complete everything, and
let's just go on another

802
00:41:33,720 --> 00:41:37,320
pharmaceutical that isn't
working for me.

803
00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,440
This does not work for me.
Suboxone and methadone is not

804
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,120
going to solve my pain issues.
It's going to rot my teeth and

805
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,560
cause more pain issues than what
I'm already dealing with.

806
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,680
And it's just, I don't
understand it.

807
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:54,440
You know, a lot of these states,
Massachusetts, California, all

808
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,120
recreationally legal for
marijuana, which gets you high,

809
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,600
but it's legal.
New Hampshire, we have liquor

810
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,440
stores on our highways.
Just pull right off the exit,

811
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,560
get your booze and pull right
back on the highway.

812
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,440
You know, it's like, I'm just
going to keep my plants, you

813
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,800
know, like, I don't understand.
I don't understand how how the

814
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,520
world is working the way that it
is.

815
00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:22,000
But it's a lot of greed, a lot
of misinformation and a lot of

816
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:25,280
people higher up that just kind
of steamroll over us that have

817
00:42:25,280 --> 00:42:27,840
absolutely no clue about this
plant when it comes to

818
00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:31,440
legislation of issues.
Like none of them had heard

819
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,120
about kratom except for the
Alderman that brought it to our

820
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,560
attention to bring up a ban.
None of them knew what it was.

821
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,520
None of them.
So they're they're banning

822
00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:39,920
stuff.
They have absolutely no idea

823
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,040
what it is.
They're going off of, you know,

824
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:44,400
the news.
Oh, this is the gas station

825
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:46,280
heroin.
You know, this is stronger than

826
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:48,600
morphine.
And I'm just like, this was

827
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,120
stronger than morphine.
I'd be laid out right now just,

828
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:53,720
you know, passed out.
I wouldn't be able to function.

829
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:56,560
I wouldn't be able to function
with morphine.

830
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:58,920
I can function.
It is.

831
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,600
It's a lot of misinformation.
You know, you see us, you know,

832
00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:04,880
you see us all first hand.
There's billions of us that take

833
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:06,760
kratom.
There's billions of us that take

834
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:10,720
7 O and we're the science.
Like come speak to all of us.

835
00:43:10,720 --> 00:43:13,640
Like stop just sitting here
going off of, you know, the

836
00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:16,240
media hype or you know, you
know, it's like game of

837
00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:17,840
telephone.
One person says it and the

838
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,480
misinformation just keeps going
and it spreads and it's sad.

839
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:23,320
It's really sad to see right
now.

840
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:26,360
Well, that's, that's a big
reason why I started the Kratom

841
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,360
gals live stream a few years ago
because I couldn't believe how

842
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,520
much misinformation and
propaganda is online when it

843
00:43:32,520 --> 00:43:36,000
comes to kratom.
And I thought I need to have a

844
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,640
way for us to watch these videos
and talk about it and really

845
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:42,000
stomp out all that
misinformation because it's just

846
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:44,960
wrong.
People watch the news or they

847
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:47,880
read the paper and they're, they
just believe everything they see

848
00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:51,640
because the media put it out.
I can't believe how many news

849
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,000
stories every single week.
I, I always start off the show

850
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,880
playing news stories like here's
a news story that just came out

851
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:01,040
this week and the amount of
misinformation is unreal.

852
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,800
There was one recently where it
was all about 7.

853
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,600
OH, but the whole time on the
news story, they're showing

854
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:09,800
kratom powder.
Yeah, product.

855
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,560
Yeah, I remember that one.
It's like, what is what is

856
00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,080
happening here?
The general public doesn't know.

857
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:19,440
They they're watching this,
going OK, this stuff's bad.

858
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:23,880
And then calling us friends and
family like that stuff's on the

859
00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:24,960
news.
That's bad.

860
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:27,560
Yeah, they all look at us like
we're, you know, like these

861
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:32,120
these addicts that are just
abusing this plant to get high.

862
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,240
And that's just not the case at
all.

863
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,200
You know, like, granted, is
there someone out there abusing

864
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,200
it, probably misusing it for
whatever?

865
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:40,640
Yeah.
But, you know, that's them.

866
00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:43,120
That's their accountability that
they have to come to when you've

867
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,560
got the thousands, billions of
thousands of us that are doing

868
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,360
things the responsible way.
You know, like I, I, I hate

869
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:54,680
being lumped in with everybody.
You know, it's, it's, it's

870
00:44:54,680 --> 00:44:55,880
tough.
It's tough.

871
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,760
Yeah, well, seven OH definitely
is in the news all the time.

872
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:03,800
And what was your thought
several months back when the FDA

873
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,440
and HHS made a big deal
publicly, you know, saying

874
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:10,120
kratom powder's fine, but we
want to ban 7.

875
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:13,440
OH, and we're recommending the
DEA schedule one.

876
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:16,400
What was your thought when that
happened?

877
00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:19,440
Several months.
To me, I knew it was coming.

878
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:23,320
There was threatening letters
that were sent out to a few

879
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:27,440
vendors that were already, you
know, selling 7 O in 2023.

880
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:29,520
And we got threatening letters
saying that we were going to be

881
00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,720
reported to the FDA if we didn't
stop selling it over the 2%.

882
00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:37,640
And it's like, OK, well, who are
you guys to sit here and, you

883
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,840
know, say, you know what it is?
This isn't a law.

884
00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:42,760
Like it wasn't a thing when it
started.

885
00:45:42,760 --> 00:45:49,160
I mean, I knew that it was going
to be exactly what it's going to

886
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,480
what it is right now.
It's going to be a huge fight.

887
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:59,240
You know, I, I tell a lot of
people, if I had to not have 70

888
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:03,880
H to save Kratom, absolutely
because kratom is valuable, you

889
00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:06,600
know, could.
But banning it, you know, like

890
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:10,800
banning 70 H, it's that stops
the studies on it.

891
00:46:11,920 --> 00:46:14,520
It's only going to send it to
the black market and then you

892
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,880
got to worry about, you know,
stuff that you are finding, you

893
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,880
know, that shouldn't be in the
gas stations.

894
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,640
I think you know, kind of like
when you go to like a you know,

895
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:25,880
CVS and you need to decongestant
now you have to like give your

896
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:28,800
ID.
You know, we should have it 21

897
00:46:28,800 --> 00:46:30,640
plus.
We should have it, you know, in,

898
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:33,440
you know, specific places,
whether it be like, you know,

899
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,560
just a regular, you know, smoke
vape shop type of a situation,

900
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,680
but no gas stations.
I don't think gas stations

901
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:42,240
should have it.
I don't think that it should be

902
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:46,240
available the way that it is at
the gas stations and just

903
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:48,080
handing it out.
I think these people need

904
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:52,040
knowledge before they're even
even get even selling kratom.

905
00:46:52,040 --> 00:46:55,800
Like it doesn't take much to
read up a little about on

906
00:46:55,800 --> 00:46:57,760
kratom.
I've been into many smoke shops

907
00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:00,600
and vape shops out here between
the bands just going in and

908
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,520
talking, you know, asking people
to come and they don't even know

909
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,400
what they have in there.
You know, I'm like, well, what

910
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:07,520
does this one do, you know, do
you have labs on this?

911
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:09,080
Oh, no, it's just sitting on the
shelf.

912
00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,880
We just sell it, you know, and
that that's where we need the

913
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:18,680
help is we need to regulate it
in these stores to come out of

914
00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:22,400
these smoke shop gas stations
that have no education.

915
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:25,440
It's like, you know, if you're
going into, you know, a

916
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:29,680
dispensary, it is geared towards
the product that you're going to

917
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,920
buy.
And these people are very

918
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,320
knowledgeable on it.
There should be places like

919
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,360
that, like vendors, you know,
they're all compliant.

920
00:47:35,360 --> 00:47:38,160
They have, you know, the
compliant vendors will have the

921
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,960
education, will have the proper
labs, the clean room,

922
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:42,800
everything.
Like I always just say to

923
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,880
everybody, do your due diligence
and make sure you know what

924
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,720
you're taking.
I won't go to the smoke shop.

925
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,480
I don't care if I'm out.
I'm not going to the smoke shop

926
00:47:50,520 --> 00:47:53,000
or to the gas station because I
don't know what's in those

927
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,320
products.
You know, like they're not

928
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:57,600
there.
There's the seven O and and of

929
00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,080
course it get just gets
everybody's lumped into one

930
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:01,760
category.
There's the seven O that you're

931
00:48:01,760 --> 00:48:05,600
seeing, you know, with like
Smurfs.

932
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:08,400
So these weird, you know, these
drug, you know, prescription

933
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:11,360
names that are like, yeah, like
the perks, you know, and it's

934
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,880
like that's it's stupid.
You're biting your own self in

935
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,720
the foot to do that, First off,
and you're making a bad look for

936
00:48:17,720 --> 00:48:20,640
it because that's not anything
that it's like, it's not like

937
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,880
it's not like a Percocet,
because if it was like a

938
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:25,560
Percocet, I'd be in pain the
whole time and I'd still need

939
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,200
more when I'm done.
And I I don't need more.

940
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:31,120
You know, there's a ceiling
affected only with kratom and

941
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,480
with with seven O, you can only
take so much of it before it

942
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,000
doesn't work for you.
You know, it's like it caps off

943
00:48:37,240 --> 00:48:39,160
and what's going to happen,
you're going to get what we call

944
00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:41,280
the wobbles.
You're going to feel, you know,

945
00:48:41,840 --> 00:48:44,640
queasy, you might throw up.
That's it.

946
00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:47,240
After that it's done.
You know, that's that's the

947
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:49,600
worst that's going to happen
with, you know, the Kratom or

948
00:48:49,600 --> 00:48:51,240
the seven O.
If you've taken too much, you're

949
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:54,240
just going to feel like crap for
about an hour and then it's

950
00:48:54,240 --> 00:48:56,480
gone.
You know, just, you know, like

951
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:59,240
write down things in a book, you
know, keep track of your dose

952
00:48:59,240 --> 00:49:01,120
and know where you're buying
your product.

953
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,000
That that's just key.
Don't support, you know, for

954
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,560
everybody.
Don't go support these people,

955
00:49:05,560 --> 00:49:07,760
you know, like walk into the gas
station and buy it because

956
00:49:07,760 --> 00:49:09,320
that's supporting their
business.

957
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:11,320
Go to a vendor.
You know, a lot of people don't

958
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,720
even realize that there's
vendors out there that they can

959
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:15,920
buy stuff from.
And you know, the vendors that

960
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,480
are doing it right right now are
getting lumped into the gas

961
00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:22,160
station sales of the seven O And
that's that's the hard part

962
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:24,880
because there's a difference,
just like there's a difference

963
00:49:24,880 --> 00:49:27,920
from a compliant vendor to like
a home or shed vendor, you know,

964
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:32,080
and in this community we hold,
we hold ours responsible.

965
00:49:32,440 --> 00:49:36,560
I wish, I wish they, the
outsiders saw how much work we

966
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,120
all as consumers put in to
holding our vendors responsible.

967
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:42,040
So we know that we're getting
safe product.

968
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:45,160
We've gotten rid of seven O,
we've gotten rid of seven O

969
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,720
products because you know, say
the solvent level was too high,

970
00:49:48,720 --> 00:49:50,960
you know, it didn't pass, that's
done.

971
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,680
You know it done.
We're not selling it.

972
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:54,680
Get rid of it.
Like that's just, that's how we

973
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:57,840
do it.
If it does not pass the labs for

974
00:49:57,840 --> 00:50:01,360
compliance, it's it's not on our
site, it's not up there, we're

975
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,280
not going to sell it, we're not
going to consume it.

976
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:05,600
We're not going to even have it
in our in our shop.

977
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:09,480
It gets out the second it fails.
Yeah, I think it's why it's

978
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:12,640
important for there to be
regulations in place so things

979
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:15,600
are being done properly.
I think when these industries

980
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,520
are self regulated, there's just
so much room for error and

981
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:20,760
problems.
I think 7 O products should have

982
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:24,200
never been in gas stations and
so easily accessible, even with

983
00:50:24,200 --> 00:50:26,840
the kratom extracts.
I mean, the having, I think

984
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:31,480
dispensary, you know, smoke
shops ways of like doing it

985
00:50:31,480 --> 00:50:34,760
where there's more
accountability with it and not

986
00:50:34,760 --> 00:50:39,480
having drug names, I think that
was just a terrible thing that

987
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:43,680
adds the fuel to the fire of why
these products are so demonized.

988
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,040
But then you got Florida.
What, what, what?

989
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,960
This whole Florida thing where
just out of nowhere they do a

990
00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:51,560
press conference and said
midnight tonight we're banning

991
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,200
it.
That was that was that was

992
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:56,120
crazy.
And then, you know, one of the

993
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,360
gentlemen that were up there was
saying, you know, I just lost

994
00:50:58,360 --> 00:50:59,880
somebody.
I think it was like less than a

995
00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:04,840
week prior to seven.
Oh, and I'm like, no, you can't

996
00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:06,920
get a toxicology report back
that quick.

997
00:51:07,280 --> 00:51:09,160
You can't.
I don't care.

998
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:11,120
I don't care who you are.
There's no way you're getting a

999
00:51:11,120 --> 00:51:13,280
toxicology report back in less
than a week.

1000
00:51:14,560 --> 00:51:17,200
So do you think he just said
that just to draw more attention

1001
00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:19,680
that the scare?
Tactics, scare tactics.

1002
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,760
You know, it's, it's sad, it's
sad.

1003
00:51:22,480 --> 00:51:24,040
It's sad, but here's what's
interesting.

1004
00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:27,120
So we don't ever hear about
deaths attributed to seven.

1005
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:31,920
OH, and then all of a sudden
recently LA County claimed there

1006
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:34,080
were like, what, 3?
Three of them, Yeah.

1007
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:35,720
And then they all proved to be
wrong.

1008
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:37,200
It was not 7.
OH.

1009
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,440
So I saw that article where it
got disputed.

1010
00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:42,680
But that but they never, they
never brought that back to

1011
00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:44,360
anybody's attention.
They were like, Hey, these

1012
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,640
people died from 7 O oh, we
didn't come back to say, oh,

1013
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:50,880
hey, we, we misinformed you.
This is what was in their

1014
00:51:50,880 --> 00:51:52,680
system.
This is why they passed away.

1015
00:51:52,680 --> 00:51:56,000
It had nothing to do with 70.
It was just in their system.

1016
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:01,640
And same with plain leaf kratom.
A lot of people's deaths are oh,

1017
00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:03,840
you know, it was kratom.
It was, you know, Mitch, Mitch,

1018
00:52:04,160 --> 00:52:06,160
the big M word that's really
hard to pronounce.

1019
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:08,280
You know, the Mitch that's in
your system.

1020
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:10,280
That's what you know, that's
what they're dying from.

1021
00:52:10,280 --> 00:52:14,240
No, it's in their system.
And unfortunately, the world is

1022
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:17,160
a little shady and people get
paid to do certain things.

1023
00:52:17,160 --> 00:52:20,760
The CDC, you know, it's been
known that they've been paying

1024
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,080
for certain reports.
And it's like, it's a lot of

1025
00:52:25,080 --> 00:52:28,000
things that keep getting
uncovered, you know, like it,

1026
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,000
it's just, I don't get why
they're working against us.

1027
00:52:31,000 --> 00:52:33,280
But then it's like it, you know,
when it all comes down to it,

1028
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,680
it's money, it's big pharma.
It's things that are out of our

1029
00:52:36,680 --> 00:52:38,840
control.
Absolutely.

1030
00:52:38,840 --> 00:52:42,040
Well, what about, like, some of
these supposed kratom deaths

1031
00:52:42,040 --> 00:52:44,040
from years ago?
It turned out one of them was a

1032
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,720
gunshot wound to the chest.
Yeah, but kratom killed him.

1033
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:49,280
Yeah.
I I don't think, like, there's

1034
00:52:49,280 --> 00:52:51,720
just a handful of these really
bizarre ones.

1035
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:54,120
It makes you realize like, wow,
there's a lot of corruption

1036
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:57,560
going on and a lot of
misinforming people to make this

1037
00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:00,000
sound like is is such a bad
thing.

1038
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:02,240
And that took what, 2 minutes
for us to be like, you know

1039
00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:03,680
what, wait, that doesn't sound
right.

1040
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,480
Like that's just, you know, hold
on, let me do this myself and

1041
00:53:06,480 --> 00:53:09,680
like really look into this.
And it's, you know, it's, it's

1042
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,240
like anything that they put on
the news, it's a narrative that

1043
00:53:12,240 --> 00:53:14,200
they're putting out that they
want you to hear.

1044
00:53:14,400 --> 00:53:18,360
You know, whether it be politics
or kratom or car accidents or,

1045
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,440
you know, whatever, you know,
the, the world, you know, the

1046
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:23,960
sky, whatever is going on,
they'll put it on the news

1047
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:27,200
because that's what they want
you to hear versus what we're

1048
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,440
saying or what, you know, our,
our proof has shown, you know,

1049
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:32,240
endless, you know, amount of
studies.

1050
00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:34,120
You know, McCurdy has done a lot
of studies.

1051
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:35,800
You know, Michelle Ross has done
a lot of studies.

1052
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,600
There's so much out there.
You know, doctor Jack

1053
00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,760
Henningfield and Marilyn Hustis
and, and you know, these are all

1054
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:46,520
top, top respected people who
are saying that this plant is

1055
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,760
safe, including 708.
We have doctors studying this

1056
00:53:51,000 --> 00:53:54,600
saying that this is safe.
Yeah.

1057
00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,000
Isn't Doctor Kristian Smith
doing a study right now?

1058
00:53:57,840 --> 00:53:59,880
Like an abuse study I think, or
something, right?

1059
00:54:00,160 --> 00:54:03,560
I mean, you know, anything has
has the potential for abuse.

1060
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:07,160
Anything does working out water.
I mean, people die from drinking

1061
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:11,480
too much water, you know, and
it's like people aren't going,

1062
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,120
oh, well, let's ban water, let's
ban alcohol, let's ban

1063
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,600
cigarettes.
You know, they're not doing

1064
00:54:15,600 --> 00:54:17,760
this.
So it's like, why are you trying

1065
00:54:17,760 --> 00:54:21,600
to ban something that's
benefiting more than it's

1066
00:54:21,600 --> 00:54:24,240
harming?
Is every everybody's harmed by

1067
00:54:24,240 --> 00:54:25,720
something?
Could this harm somebody?

1068
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:28,640
Absolutely, but it's on them.
You know, that's their

1069
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,560
accountability.
You know, like you can't you

1070
00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,880
know, 111 person can ruin it for
the bunch is what really is

1071
00:54:34,880 --> 00:54:37,400
happening here.
And that's why there's a lot of

1072
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,600
us advocating strong right now
and trying to have our voices

1073
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:44,560
heard and having a platform like
this where you bring us all on

1074
00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:46,080
here and we can share our
stories.

1075
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:49,640
It there's many people that I've
seen just comments, you know, in

1076
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:51,600
the comments that are like, Oh,
I really didn't know much about

1077
00:54:51,600 --> 00:54:54,200
it until I started watching this
podcast, you know, and I started

1078
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:57,000
watching these stories and
hearing, you know, the hundreds

1079
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,320
of people that have been, you
know, whether in the comments or

1080
00:54:59,320 --> 00:55:02,080
on, you know, on speaking with
you or, you know, the kratom

1081
00:55:02,080 --> 00:55:04,240
gals and everything.
And it's like people are

1082
00:55:04,240 --> 00:55:06,440
stopping and going wait, you
know, they're going to open up,

1083
00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,080
open up their own eyes to see
what really is going on.

1084
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:12,040
And that's we need more of it.
You know, like with Jordan doing

1085
00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:15,480
his, you know, documentary and
it's like he's always doing his,

1086
00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:19,480
you know, his, his funny Tik
Toks, you know, like, I love

1087
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:21,280
Jordan's Tik toks.
Like those are the great.

1088
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:25,240
But it's whatever's getting that
positive word out there.

1089
00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:28,480
That's what we need more of.
You know, we need more

1090
00:55:28,480 --> 00:55:30,600
positivity out there.
And I wish that they would just

1091
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,520
stop, pause and like talk to us
as consumers, you know, Reddit,

1092
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,640
Discord, you're going to, you
know, they're going to read what

1093
00:55:36,640 --> 00:55:38,520
they're going to want to read.
And you know, it's just like

1094
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,160
Googling kratom.
What is the first thing that

1095
00:55:40,160 --> 00:55:42,240
pops up?
Nothing but bad information.

1096
00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:44,840
And that's what's going to pop
up anywhere.

1097
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:47,400
You know, it's like all the
bad's going to pop up before you

1098
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,520
find all the good.
And that's even, you know, even

1099
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:51,960
with medication that these
doctors are giving you, you're

1100
00:55:51,960 --> 00:55:55,840
going to find a lot of bad side
effects to it until you say, OK,

1101
00:55:56,120 --> 00:55:58,920
this has its benefits.
You know, just like they want

1102
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:02,160
to, you know, put kratom and
seven O in the hands of big

1103
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:03,240
Pharma.
Why?

1104
00:56:03,600 --> 00:56:07,280
Because it has benefits, but
it's taking away from them and

1105
00:56:07,280 --> 00:56:09,640
they want to control it.
And there's no way that they're

1106
00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:12,840
going to control my meds again
because they were killing me.

1107
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,480
And now I'm alive and I'm going
to continue living my life this

1108
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:20,160
way.
Whether kratom is banned or not,

1109
00:56:20,760 --> 00:56:22,480
I will always have kratom in my
life.

1110
00:56:22,520 --> 00:56:25,520
I don't care what I've got to
do, but kratom is what saved my

1111
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:28,120
life and that's what's going to
continue to keep my life going.

1112
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:33,200
I, I love that you're such a, a
passionate advocate for kratom

1113
00:56:33,200 --> 00:56:35,560
and 708 because it helps you so
much.

1114
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:37,880
I definitely, I feel like we
could talk all day.

1115
00:56:37,880 --> 00:56:40,240
I, I think I want to get you
back on again sometime.

1116
00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:43,200
We can just go down the road of
the whole advocacy because

1117
00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:46,080
advocacy works.
And I, I think a lot of people

1118
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,200
in our community don't really
understand how they can advocate

1119
00:56:49,200 --> 00:56:52,120
and how easy it is to do and.
It's like it's scary too, and a

1120
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,080
lot of people are scared.
I was terrified.

1121
00:56:54,120 --> 00:56:56,240
I still like, I was nervous to
do this.

1122
00:56:56,480 --> 00:57:00,080
I'm terrified every time I speak
on a Zoom or I go live, you

1123
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,800
know, in, in a hearing.
I'm nervous every time, but

1124
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:08,280
there are voices is what's being
heard and that's what we need.

1125
00:57:08,280 --> 00:57:10,640
We need more people out there.
I mean, I tell people all the

1126
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,680
time if you need help, let me
know.

1127
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,200
Like I'll help you write
something up.

1128
00:57:14,240 --> 00:57:16,960
You know, like if you, if you
want to speak, I can help write

1129
00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:19,200
something up and you can just
read it off if that's what

1130
00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,640
you're comfortable.
Whatever, whatever helps you

1131
00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,600
advocate for you and yourself,
I'm here to support it.

1132
00:57:26,520 --> 00:57:28,520
That's awesome.
It's so important to advocate.

1133
00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:32,720
I've been to DC twice now for
congressional briefings that the

1134
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:39,080
American Crime Association
facilitated, and I'm like, hey,

1135
00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:43,560
if I can raise money and get
myself out there, it's worth my

1136
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:47,040
time to go be there to help.
I wasn't paid by the AKA or

1137
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,040
anybody to go do it.
I'm just like you, a very

1138
00:57:50,040 --> 00:57:52,600
passionate advocate.
And it is scary, scary doing all

1139
00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:57,400
of this stuff, but going on
Capitol Hill and talking to

1140
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,280
people and sharing your personal
experience, it is so eye open.

1141
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:05,000
It's amazing to sit in the room
with people and to just watch

1142
00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,560
how they're taking in hearing
your personal story.

1143
00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:12,480
And they're most interested in
us as the consumer just talking

1144
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,800
about like, Hey, I don't have to
take all these opiates anymore.

1145
00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,280
I, I use this powder.
I even would pull it out and

1146
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:21,120
show them like a, a package of
my whole leaf powder.

1147
00:58:21,400 --> 00:58:25,480
And just like, like the I make a
tea out of this is is better

1148
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,080
than popping all these pills
that give me all these side

1149
00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,320
effects and doesn't even really
help my pain all that much.

1150
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:34,120
And they would be like, wow,
this is really interesting.

1151
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,440
And you know, if we're not
speaking out, we're not

1152
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:40,400
informing.
And that's.

1153
00:58:41,080 --> 00:58:43,800
They want us quiet because if
we're not speaking, if we're not

1154
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,960
speaking out, that means, you
know, like, like this Nashua, NH

1155
00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:48,960
ban.
If none of us spoke out, that

1156
00:58:48,960 --> 00:58:52,200
would have been an immediate ban
and none of us would have even

1157
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:53,560
known.
And there's still people, they

1158
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:55,920
have no idea that all these
bands are going on, you know,

1159
00:58:55,920 --> 00:58:58,480
like follow the American Kratom
Association.

1160
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,040
You don't have to agree with
everything they do and say.

1161
00:59:01,080 --> 00:59:03,160
I don't.
But I follow them because they

1162
00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:06,440
have been helpful to our plant.
You know, they get us in the

1163
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:09,400
door to see the legislation that
we need to see.

1164
00:59:09,440 --> 00:59:12,600
You know, you know, even with
seven O, you know, follow heart,

1165
00:59:12,600 --> 00:59:15,160
follow 7 hope alliance.
They have a lot of great

1166
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:17,840
information, you know, and if
you ever have questions, they're

1167
00:59:17,840 --> 00:59:20,680
always willing to help and talk
and answer anything that you

1168
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,240
have.
You know, like that's that's

1169
00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:24,600
what I love about this
community.

1170
00:59:24,600 --> 00:59:27,880
If you have questions and you
need to ask a question and

1171
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,280
they're willing to help you out.
That's that's what brings my

1172
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,840
heart into this community and
keeps coming back, because if

1173
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:41,840
it's one person besides myself
that I'm helping or saving or

1174
00:59:41,960 --> 00:59:44,680
you know, many people, I've,
I've helped many people not only

1175
00:59:44,680 --> 00:59:48,640
taper off off drugs, 7 O and
Kratom.

1176
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:54,000
You know, we, we need more
people like you, like myself.

1177
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:57,520
We need more out there because
our voice is what's mattering.

1178
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:00,800
Our voice is getting us heard.
And that's, that's what we need

1179
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:03,120
more of.
And it's I, I wish that we had

1180
01:00:03,120 --> 01:00:06,200
more time.
When it came to these hearings

1181
01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:08,720
that we would have a little bit
more notice because I mean,

1182
01:00:08,720 --> 01:00:10,760
let's get it.
They're they're smack dab in the

1183
01:00:10,760 --> 01:00:13,160
middle of the day when most
people are working and not a lot

1184
01:00:13,160 --> 01:00:16,360
can show up.
And that's kind of in a sense

1185
01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:20,240
probably their MO.
But you know, we come in strong.

1186
01:00:20,240 --> 01:00:23,520
We come in strong.
I mean, you've seen us myself,

1187
01:00:23,520 --> 01:00:25,960
Jen, you see us on all these
zoom calls.

1188
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,240
It doesn't matter.
Louisiana, California,

1189
01:00:28,240 --> 01:00:30,440
Connecticut, Rhode Island, we
are everywhere.

1190
01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:33,840
Like, you know, and you know,
Texas, like all these states I

1191
01:00:33,840 --> 01:00:36,480
go to, if California bans
kratom, I'm not going home.

1192
01:00:36,480 --> 01:00:39,200
And that's my home state.
Like I won't be able to go home.

1193
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:41,120
Texas, you know, I was
terrified.

1194
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:43,720
That's where my brother and my
stepmom are and my my nephew.

1195
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:46,720
If it was banned there, I
wouldn't be going home to Texas.

1196
01:00:46,720 --> 01:00:50,000
You know, I don't want to be a
felon for some powder like a

1197
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:54,600
felon, a schedule 1 felon drug
addict, like for a leaf powder

1198
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,280
that's not doing any harm.
It's doing good.

1199
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:02,400
This isn't heroin.
This isn't morphine like you and

1200
01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:05,440
I would not be sitting here
having a full hour conversation

1201
01:01:05,440 --> 01:01:08,600
on heroin or morphine.
We'd, you know, we'd be nodding

1202
01:01:08,600 --> 01:01:10,800
out and not coherent and not
making sense.

1203
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:12,600
We have all of our faculties
about us.

1204
01:01:12,600 --> 01:01:15,200
You know, I've, I've taken
kratom today and that's it.

1205
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:18,560
You know, like I'm very sound
mind, I'm very alert.

1206
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:22,520
I'm not inebriated.
I'm not completely checked out.

1207
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:25,840
Like if I was on the amount of
pain medication that I was on,

1208
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,360
I'd probably look like I was
doped up.

1209
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:31,560
And that's what I looked up on
it like I looked like on a

1210
01:01:31,560 --> 01:01:34,120
regular day.
It was like I constantly looked

1211
01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,080
like I was on some sort of a
medication and I didn't like it.

1212
01:01:38,080 --> 01:01:40,200
I didn't like the way it feels.
I didn't like the way it made me

1213
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:44,360
feel, made me look.
You know, it just this is such a

1214
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:46,520
great alternative.
It really is.

1215
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,800
And I, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna
keep fighting.

1216
01:01:48,840 --> 01:01:50,800
I'll fight until I have no fight
left in me.

1217
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,040
You know, I will fight till my
last breath if it means for me,

1218
01:01:54,040 --> 01:01:55,880
for you, for others to have
kratom.

1219
01:01:55,880 --> 01:01:57,400
That's what I'm gonna continue
to do.

1220
01:01:58,240 --> 01:02:00,360
I love that.
Yeah, I'll definitely get you

1221
01:02:00,360 --> 01:02:02,480
back to just have like a whole
episode on advocacy.

1222
01:02:02,640 --> 01:02:05,000
Absolutely.
So much we can talk about that.

1223
01:02:05,200 --> 01:02:07,280
Well, to wrap up, I mean, this
has been an amazing

1224
01:02:07,280 --> 01:02:10,120
conversation, Amanda.
I've been really loving this,

1225
01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:12,600
knowing everything you know now
about kratom.

1226
01:02:12,600 --> 01:02:13,840
You've been in this for a long
time.

1227
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:15,440
You know, lots.
What advice would you give to

1228
01:02:15,440 --> 01:02:18,520
someone to help them?
They're just getting started.

1229
01:02:19,600 --> 01:02:23,400
Well, one less is more.
A lot of people come into this

1230
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,720
thinking, you know, you know,
oh, I have a high tolerance.

1231
01:02:27,440 --> 01:02:28,880
This is a whole different
aspect.

1232
01:02:28,880 --> 01:02:30,000
You know, I thought the same
thing.

1233
01:02:30,000 --> 01:02:31,400
Oh, I've been taking a lot of
pills.

1234
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:33,640
I've been taking them like this.
You know, my tolerance is going

1235
01:02:33,640 --> 01:02:37,840
to be this.
No, like start low, get a few

1236
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:41,080
different, you know, Reds,
greens, whites, because they're,

1237
01:02:41,080 --> 01:02:43,000
they're all different blends.
It's a little bit different.

1238
01:02:43,000 --> 01:02:44,760
What works for me may not work
for you.

1239
01:02:44,800 --> 01:02:48,120
You know, write things down,
journal it, see what works for

1240
01:02:48,120 --> 01:02:50,440
you.
And you know, make sure that you

1241
01:02:50,440 --> 01:02:52,320
know, you're reaching out for
advocacy help.

1242
01:02:52,320 --> 01:02:54,200
You know, you're reaching out.
You're, you know, if you don't

1243
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:57,160
understand how to read labs,
there's plenty in the community

1244
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,240
that do.
I still don't get all the labs,

1245
01:02:59,240 --> 01:03:01,760
all that mumbo jumbo.
There's lots of numbers, lots of

1246
01:03:01,760 --> 01:03:03,440
math things.
And I'm like, wait, hold on,

1247
01:03:03,440 --> 01:03:05,560
like dumb this down.
You understand?

1248
01:03:05,560 --> 01:03:07,440
It.
So it's like, you know, it's

1249
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:11,440
just do, do, do your due
diligence, start low, less is

1250
01:03:11,440 --> 01:03:15,120
more, write things down, hold
yourself accountable.

1251
01:03:15,480 --> 01:03:18,880
And if you're struggling, like
if you're having an issue with

1252
01:03:18,880 --> 01:03:20,920
it, if you think you're abusing
it, reach out.

1253
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:24,760
Because there's so many of us as
a support system that are here

1254
01:03:24,760 --> 01:03:26,240
to listen, that are here to
help.

1255
01:03:26,600 --> 01:03:29,440
You know, we can, we can help.
And that's what we're here for.

1256
01:03:29,440 --> 01:03:30,880
You know, I mean, we're not
doctors.

1257
01:03:30,880 --> 01:03:33,200
We don't have, you know, the
medical behind us.

1258
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,000
We just have our own experience,
you know, and a lot of times,

1259
01:03:36,640 --> 01:03:39,720
you know, even with doctors, it
goes off of experience, you

1260
01:03:39,720 --> 01:03:42,160
know, like what has been this
person's experience with this

1261
01:03:42,160 --> 01:03:44,040
medication?
And that's where they get it,

1262
01:03:44,040 --> 01:03:46,320
just like, you know, what's been
this person's experience with

1263
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,920
kratom?
So I mean, start, start low, you

1264
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:54,360
know, start small and less is
more, you know, hold yourself

1265
01:03:54,360 --> 01:03:57,120
accountable and don't abuse it
because it's a wonderful, it's a

1266
01:03:57,120 --> 01:03:58,840
wonderful tool.
It really is.

1267
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:02,040
Yeah, great advice.
Thank you, Amanda, for spending

1268
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:03,800
time with us.
This has been so great.

1269
01:04:03,800 --> 01:04:07,080
I know so much more about you
now and I know the listeners

1270
01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,360
really enjoyed this, so thank
you for doing.

1271
01:04:09,360 --> 01:04:10,920
This one, absolutely.
Absolutely.

1272
01:04:10,960 --> 01:04:12,160
I look forward to the next one.