Ep 67: From Pain to Power: How Kratom Transformed John Hanna’s Life

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It just it gives you this, I
don't know, I feel like I get

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this sense of freedom from it
when I'm in that flow state, my

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endorphins are going.
It pushes me through the next

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round, the next round, the next
round.

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It's beneficial and it doesn't
it doesn't have a hindrance on

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me.
Let it hinder me, OK.

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And that's why the extract for
me doesn't hinder me.

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Like the holy, like you said,
everybody's different.

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For me, man, It's it's, it's,
it's been a life changer,

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definitely.
So I'm here with John.

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Somebody discovered on YouTube.
I found a YouTube video of John

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talking about kratom.
So of course I had to reach out.

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I remember I sent a comment on
your on your YouTube.

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I say TikTok a lot because I
connect with a lot of people on

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TikTok as well.
But your YouTube video grabbed

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my attention and said we started
connecting through the comments

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and then move over to e-mail.
And John, I'm so excited to have

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you on the podcast to Share your
story.

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So thank you so much for being
here.

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You're welcome.
Thank you.

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My first love.
Though awesome, you know, it's

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been a lot of people's first
podcast because you know, our

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community is just everyday
people, you know, that come on

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and talk about their experience
with kratom.

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It's not, you know, like a
business podcast.

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It's not anything fancy like
that.

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It's just conversations with
people talking about how this

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plant has changed, change their
lives.

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So why don't we first start with
you telling us a little bit

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about yourself and life before
kratom came into the pitcher?

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Oh, I mean, I was, I was always
ambitious to learn how to

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grapple.
That was my main thing is and I

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used to work in kitchens all the
time.

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So I did kitchen work and I
grappled and grappling is very

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hard on the body.
And I discovered kratom later,

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but otherwise growing up in the
house, you know, it was that was

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a bit of a rocky situation, but
it seems to be the story of many

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Americans these days.
Other than that, I hurt my back

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really, really bad in 2005.
This is the poor friend I'm just

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giving, I'm giving you the 2005
on.

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And I heard it really bad in
training, so bad that I couldn't

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walk for like, so I was spent
written late, practically looked

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like I had a broken back.
So I'm playing video games and

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of course that's all I can do to
entertain myself.

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And then I was eating well, I
was eating muscle relaxers that

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I got from the doctor.
They wouldn't give me any

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opioids, which I really needed
them because I would move 1/4 of

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an inch and my back was just
shot.

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Now if anybody doesn't know what
grappling is, it's like it's

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part of MMA, it's wrestling,
it's a lot of hearts, it's a lot

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of hard work on the body and
plus the stress of light.

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Before that my father died and
having to watch out for the

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family.
It was a lot going on.

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But I'm bedridden, can't work
and I was eating probably about

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I got off the street because
nobody, the doctor wouldn't give

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it to me.
So I can call up a couple people

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and I can have a bottle like
this.

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So that's what I got on 1st and
then I had was eating probably

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about 5 pills a day.
That's probably nothing compared

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to what some people do.
And but I got slightly hooked on

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that feeling after a while and
it was it was a little rough.

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I'm like I had to stop.
So I stopped that on my own,

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which it wasn't that bad, but it
was it was a little annoying.

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And then my friends found crowd
of a head shop.

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I forget the name of it.
It was, I don't know, here, try

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this.
I was like, it was at a Kaba

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bar.
So I'm like, OK, I took it.

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And then when I got home later,
the music started sounding

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really good.
So I was like, man, this is

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pretty good.
I was like, this feels just

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like, you know, as close to not
exactly a light as a bike in or

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something.
But it but it did kill the pain

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in my back a little bit and made
me feel a little bit alive.

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And I was like, OK, and that was
when it started with kratom and

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I finally went to the head shop
and used to buy it.

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And then that thing end up
perpetuating into selling it at

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a cover bar and then making a
lot of money.

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So, but for me it was it helped
me give me, energized me and it

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gave me like it was better than
an energy drink, better than a

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coffee to go training grappling
and jiu jitsu.

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So ever since then, that was it.
And I mean, my life has been it

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is what it is.
Maybe that's another time

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getting all that early light
stuff.

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But but before that, I think I
may have had like a slightly

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addictive personality, but the
crowd helped soothe all that

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over and I just didn't know how
to, I don't know how to take it.

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I think there's just a there's a
science to it.

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You eventually just find your
niche when it comes to taking

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it.
And that's what I found.

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I found my niche and how to take
it and, and eventually I didn't,

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it took me a long time to figure
out, well, you know, too much

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will make you sick.
This and that you have to learn

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by trial and error, But it has
really helped me get through the

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physical activities that I get
through.

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It's the main thing.
It's the physical activities and

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the amazing sleep that you get
on it.

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And that was that.
That was pretty much.

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And then I've been ordering it,
you know, for many years, 20

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years now, since 2006, so.
Wow, so you've been consuming

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this for quite a while?
2006?

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Wow.
So they were selling it in smoke

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shops back then?
Oh yeah, yeah, they sell it at

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smoke shops you get with however
many grams and, and yeah, you

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had enough to probably depend on
how you took it.

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You had it.
I trained a lot.

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So naturally I started taking it
a little bit, a little bit too

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much, I think.
But it's OK.

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It depends on your, everybody's
different.

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But it really helped.
Like through hard work.

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I worked in kitchens too.
So that's that that work is

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that's a chaotic scene.
And then, and then after, after

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the kitchen work, I'm going to
train graphite and then teach it

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and having to keep up and
training.

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This is when I was like 3132.
I'm 50 now and I'll be proud.

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I'm definitely, I've always
called it kratom.

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Everybody calls it kratom.
I've always called it Kratom.

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But it it really it's, it's just
got me through, you know, rough

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days, hard days.
And I mean, I did have to get

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off of it sometimes.
There was a time I had to that

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was like, it was just like a few
days.

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That's only if I took the
extract, but if when I took the

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whole leaf for like a few years,
that was a that was a different

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beast all together.
I don't know, I don't, I don't

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know if you want to get into all
that.

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I don't want to talk about them
or something, but I just, I do

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think that you need to, you need
to regulate yourself a little

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bit on it.
You know, you're not just take

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it like crazy.
And this is my experience.

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Of course, it never made me sick
and like, you know, so sick that

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I had to go to a rehab or, you
know, Oh no, and doom and gloom

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and all that.
I just manned up and just got

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through it.
But other than that, yeah, I'm

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not going to.
I'm not going to stop taking it,

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but I'm going to.
I'm going to take it to what I

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needed for sleep and training.
And, you know, maybe sometimes

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in the middle of the day, just
whatever, maybe I'm reading a

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book or studying or doing
whatever I do.

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That's it.
Yeah.

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So, so you've used extracts and
powder like you've done both or

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like what?
What is your preferred method of

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kratom?
Kratom.

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Do you know you're going to get
me saying kratom?

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Yeah, yeah, I've done both.
First was extract, then was,

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then was the whole leaf because
I couldn't find extract.

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And so I don't know if you want
to hear all that, but the, with

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the, with the, with the with the
whole leaf, I was taking the

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white vein.
That was my favorite one because

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it gave you the energy and you
can sleep on it too.

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But the red vein is the one that
really makes you sleepy.

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But the, but the white vein was
just as good.

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So yeah, I started with that
with the extract, which I think

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is better.
I think it's better to get an

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extract because you take it
every like 6-7 hours and it

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doesn't it, it didn't stick to
you so much.

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The the whole leaf was a
different beast, like I said

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before.
And I think that's people like

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to make teas out of it.
I used to just take a spoon

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about this big clump water.
I don't get it.

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All the Raspberry and the
blueberry.

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I'm just, I'm a black coffee guy
and if I drink whiskey, I drink

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whiskey.
I take it that I might take it

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right, right.
So I'm trying to, I like the

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extract better and I take a 10X
now for, for me, just this is,

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it's a 10X.
It's a very light, light bit and

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that's all I want anymore.
I've been through the heavy

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stuff and I would rather take it
like as far as like just just to

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give, just to get me through
training and to get me to sleep.

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And that's the only reason why I
take it.

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The extract to me is the best no
matter what.

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That's my yeah.
That's interesting and it's what

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works for you, you know, and,
and, and you know, for whatever

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reason, you know, everybody has
their own reasons for using

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kratom.
There's so many different, you

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know, for me, it's just chronic
pain.

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That's what I use it for and it
helps tremendously.

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The leaf powder, you know, the
couple of times I've tried a

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little bit of extract, I guess
because my body likes the whole

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leaf, you know, the whole
spectrum, the full spectrum

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whole leaf powder and with all
the different alkaloids that

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seems to work well on me versus
the extracts were is usually

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just like the two main
alkaloids.

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And then now there are these 70
H products where it's just 70 H,

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like a high dose 70 H.
So you know, there's different

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types of kratom and it's
figuring out what kind of works

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for you and and you know what
you get out of it.

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Yeah, of course, of course,
naturally and naturally, yeah.

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I mean, the, like I said, the
holy powder, the white vein was

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good.
But yeah, for me it was like I

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felt like I had to take more and
more and more of it.

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And it's like, and I'm like,
well, if I want to, you know, if

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I want to chase that, you know,
that that energy level that I

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need for training or, or
weightlifting and whatever it is

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I do.
I was like, I felt like I just

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needed to eat too much.
And I just maybe, maybe some

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people got that down to a
science.

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I couldn't find the science.
I just kept gulping the spoons.

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And I said, well, it's better to
just take like 1/4 teaspoon.

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And I still think that I am the
catalyst behind the quarter

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teaspoon because I think the
first cava bar that ever

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happened was in was Palm Beach.
And I said, hey guys, this is

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how you do it.
I just tried and I eventually

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figured it out.
I worked in a kitchen.

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I said, you know what?
This quarter teaspoon ought to

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be the sweet spot with this
extract.

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And I did it.
And I said, hey, this is it man.

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I can't find that quarter
teaspoon to this day, but that

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should be hanging on.
Can I curse as hanging on a

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fucking plaque bark.
It's right there, my picture

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because I found that.
Oh God.

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But better than the big, you
know, European style teaspoons

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here where I'm just golfing off
this green sludge, you know, So

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I I kind of like the, like I
said, the extract for me, it

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works for me.
So but yeah, I don't think I'm

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the catalyst that quarter
teaspoon.

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I could be wrong.
It was 2006, 2007.

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Well, that was a long time ago.
So yeah, it could have been you

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could have been you that started
that whole trend.

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That's pretty darn cool.
So So what has had the benefits

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been like since you started
kratom way back in 2006?

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Like what are all the different?
Because you know, you're using

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00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,200
with your grappling.
You said that helps with that,

222
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:20,120
but you also mentioned you have
some pain issues.

223
00:11:20,440 --> 00:11:23,480
So how does it just help you
with your just everyday life

224
00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:30,480
you.
Know it's, it's so it's energy

225
00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:32,720
wise, like it's a different type
of energy.

226
00:11:33,280 --> 00:11:38,480
All right, it's it's, I want to
say it gets me more interested

227
00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,000
in doing things.
But when you're like when you,

228
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,560
when you take a little bit of
it, it's like, man, I'm going to

229
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,160
go work in the yard.
I want to go do some laundry.

230
00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,440
I want it give you a little bit
of motivation to just want to do

231
00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,320
things you normally don't feel
like doing, but you should be

232
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:57,560
motivating yourself to do the
pain and sleep.

233
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:02,720
Mostly for me it's training and
sleep now, but the benefits of

234
00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:05,800
it was it's just the immense
amount of energy you get from

235
00:12:05,800 --> 00:12:10,520
that get from it to, to rest
with I, I mean, as far as my way

236
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:14,520
of life, I just felt like, you
know, I have a friend that says

237
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,080
moderation for cowards.
But, but, but there's like I

238
00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:21,680
feel like with coffee, alcohol
or anything that you take, which

239
00:12:21,680 --> 00:12:24,960
alcohol is freaking legal still.
It's like, you know, when people

240
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:26,480
are dying left and right from
that.

241
00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,400
I think everything in moderation
with this, it was moderation was

242
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,960
key to, but it got the, the, the
best part about it was it got me

243
00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:37,680
not thinking about those damn
painkillers too.

244
00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:42,400
Because the cocktail for any
athlete, I think most athletes,

245
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:46,600
maybe not all of them take, you
know, steroids and painkillers,

246
00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,400
you know, or anabolic antigens
and pain and painkillers.

247
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,240
But that's usually the cocktail
for people that they want to

248
00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,240
push through the pain.
They want to, you know, so it's

249
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,280
like you have, you know, and
it's, you don't need to be

250
00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,600
taking opioids, like hard
opioids and, and the other.

251
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,160
And of course, have a doctor
always monitor you when you take

252
00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:09,240
anabolic antigens.
For the record, guys, that's a

253
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:11,480
disclaimer.
I have a doctor for me right

254
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,200
now.
I'm doing that.

255
00:13:12,680 --> 00:13:18,000
But yeah, it's just, it's, it's
it just it gives you this.

256
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,320
I don't know, I feel like I get
this sense of freedom from it

257
00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:24,600
when I'm in that flow state, my
endorphins are going, it pushes

258
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,320
me through the next round, the
next round, the next round.

259
00:13:27,880 --> 00:13:30,480
It's beneficial and it doesn't
and it doesn't have a hindrance

260
00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:33,920
on me.
Let it hinder me, OK, And that's

261
00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:35,600
why the extract for me doesn't
hinder me.

262
00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:39,280
Like the holy, like you said,
everybody's different for me,

263
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:42,200
man, It's it's it's it's been a
life changer.

264
00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,800
Definitely, like I said,
everything in moderation.

265
00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,240
I don't know if that answers
your question.

266
00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:51,680
I, I'm trying to find, you know,
fancy and you know, fancy words

267
00:13:51,680 --> 00:13:54,120
here to say what it makes me
feel like, but it makes me feel

268
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:59,000
damn great.
Hey, that's that's what matters

269
00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:03,040
in this rate that you get that
experience with with kratom.

270
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,640
So what do you think is the key
to responsible use?

271
00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,920
You know, we hear all the time
about people that consume

272
00:14:11,920 --> 00:14:15,680
extracts and they just overuse
it to the point that it becomes

273
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:18,400
a real problem for them.
So what are your thoughts on

274
00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:19,520
that?
Because it sounds like you're

275
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,440
just a very responsible extract
consumer.

276
00:14:23,240 --> 00:14:27,080
Yeah.
I mean, if, if I can freely

277
00:14:27,080 --> 00:14:31,000
speak about my experience of
getting off the whole leaf as

278
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,640
opposed to the extract, is that
OK?

279
00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:33,760
Sure.
Absolutely.

280
00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,880
I'm just saying the extract was
easy because all I had to take

281
00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,080
was three quarter teaspoons a
day and I'm golden.

282
00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:43,560
You know, it's like, yeah, it
is, man.

283
00:14:43,560 --> 00:14:45,680
Feeling great, doing good, my
trainings good.

284
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:47,840
I'm getting through my weight
routines nicely.

285
00:14:47,840 --> 00:14:50,600
I can do it without the stuff,
but if it gives me that boost,

286
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:54,320
I'm going to take it.
But I was taking the whole leaf.

287
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,880
Like I said, I felt like I had
to gulp so much of it down to

288
00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,720
get that buzz that I needed to
get going.

289
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,160
And the experience of coming off
the whole league was a different

290
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,360
monster because I, this was only
four years ago.

291
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:12,240
I was like, OK, I've been taking
this for almost 14 years, 15

292
00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,480
years now.
I was like, I need, I need to

293
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:18,560
just, I'm going to taper.
I was like, whatever that is

294
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:21,200
because I didn't know.
So like, I'm like, all right,

295
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,720
I'm going to just cut.
I'm going to cut everything in

296
00:15:22,720 --> 00:15:25,560
half.
Oh, I learned real quick I

297
00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:28,360
cutted everything in half.
So 70 grams, I'm cutting down to

298
00:15:28,360 --> 00:15:30,400
about 35 grams a day of that
stuff.

299
00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:33,320
I mean, it was my fault for
going crazy.

300
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:35,320
It was.
It's my responsibility, you

301
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,920
know, but it.
Was 70 grams a day.

302
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:40,440
Almost almost 70 grams a day.
That's.

303
00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,720
That's actually that's quite a
bit.

304
00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:44,600
That's a lot.
Was that over time?

305
00:15:45,280 --> 00:15:47,760
Like how do you remember?
Like I know it was a long time

306
00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,760
ago when you started.
Do you remember how much powder

307
00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:51,440
you started with?
And like was there just this

308
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:54,560
progression of just more and
more and more over time?

309
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:57,240
Do you?
Remember, yeah, a little bit.

310
00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,120
Then I started noticing like
with even with, with any of it,

311
00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,080
but with the extract tune, I was
like, oh wow, this is weird.

312
00:16:03,080 --> 00:16:04,520
I feel kind of weird in the
middle of the night.

313
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,560
I haven't had it two days.
I'm like, I'm kind of feeling

314
00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:08,080
kind of weird.
I'm like, what is this?

315
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:12,360
I was like, oh, OK, you know, it
was, it was not, I started

316
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,160
putting it together what it was.
I wasn't really researching

317
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,720
anything.
I'm just like, this feels great.

318
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:23,560
I'm going to take this.
But yeah, the the, the, the

319
00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,200
extract was easy going.
If I had to be without it, three

320
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:29,240
days, four days, I was good to
go, you know, maybe a little bit

321
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:31,760
of funk, but it was gone,
whatever it was.

322
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:35,400
But with the with the whole
leagues taking so damn much of

323
00:16:35,400 --> 00:16:37,880
it and not doing it right, maybe
there's a science behind the

324
00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,720
holy I don't know about.
And if there is, then then I I

325
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,240
should learn something, you
know, because it looks like I

326
00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:47,520
didn't learn anything.
I'm just sitting there gulping

327
00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:54,080
these spoons out water boom,
coffee, coffee, coffee and it

328
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,560
it.
I was feeling like the, the Nat

329
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,400
that what people normally feel
the shivers can't sleep good.

330
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:04,599
Just I was sleeping 2 1/2 hours
a night for almost 8 months,

331
00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:08,319
tapering off that and it was
starting to ruin my mental

332
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:09,640
health.
And then of course, having a

333
00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:14,079
test for the bid every day
because you know, I, I didn't,

334
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,520
I, I didn't take the ouchie, if
you know what I mean.

335
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:22,079
And so I'm, I'm like, you know,
waking up at 5 four 4:00 in the

336
00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,560
morning, 43530 morning to go to
the test center to take the

337
00:17:24,560 --> 00:17:26,520
piece of paper to work coming
off that stuff.

338
00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,840
So the stress was like, oh, like
maybe I need, maybe there's some

339
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:32,160
kind of karmic connection.
I need to feel this because this

340
00:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,320
sucks, you know?
And I'm like not sleeping.

341
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,760
If anybody would even talk to
me, I'd be just absolutely

342
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,160
irritated.
And there were being nights I'm

343
00:17:41,160 --> 00:17:42,600
like this, something's wrong
here.

344
00:17:42,720 --> 00:17:45,360
I was like, I can't be, I was
like, I could have never went

345
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:52,200
that far with it to begin with.
And I, I just, I, I, I think I,

346
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,360
I really think the extracts, I
don't know how many people would

347
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,760
agree with me, but I think the
extract is truly where it's at.

348
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,720
Because if I had to stop or if
they decided to make it illegal,

349
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,320
which is stupid anyway, in my
opinion, but if they decided to

350
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:08,000
make it illegal, I could be
like, OK, no problem.

351
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,000
Few days that I'm done on that.
But I was taking it that thing

352
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,400
that if that was on the chopping
block and it was done at that

353
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:16,720
time, that would have been
something that would have been

354
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:19,480
something that's all I can say.
I was like, I was like, I don't

355
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,640
want to give kratom a bad name
because it shouldn't have a bad

356
00:18:22,640 --> 00:18:24,120
name.
I think it should be free for

357
00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:27,960
everybody to use.
And I did not want to slander it

358
00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:31,400
in any way because at the time I
was hating him, going through

359
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:34,520
the withdrawals from the holy, I
didn't like.

360
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:36,760
And I was like, this sucks.
But I was never going to get

361
00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:39,320
online and say, let's stop this
garbage, don't do it.

362
00:18:39,320 --> 00:18:42,960
No, I was an irresponsible idiot
and I did it wrong and I just

363
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:44,800
have too much of it.
It was my fault.

364
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:48,920
We don't make mistakes.
So you know, that's my that's my

365
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:52,440
thing with with if I get off of
it, if I wanted to get off of

366
00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:55,120
it, the extract is the way.
I'm not just going to be a few

367
00:18:55,120 --> 00:18:58,200
days and I'm good.
That's me with the other, forget

368
00:18:58,200 --> 00:18:59,520
it.
I'll be gulping that down until

369
00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:02,320
I get to that feeling that I
need to be able to train or work

370
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,000
out.
And then when I can't have it or

371
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,520
it comes late in the mail or
whatever it may be, I'm not

372
00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:08,600
going through this like, where's
it?

373
00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:10,080
Where's it?
I'm going through all this

374
00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:13,120
hysteria.
So I've finally learned my

375
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:15,520
lesson.
Extract is the way.

376
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,600
Yeah, it's figuring out what
works for you.

377
00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:22,200
And, you know, this kratom works
differently for everyone.

378
00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:25,520
Yeah.
So like I, I, I'm actually at my

379
00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:28,320
six year anniversary of
consuming kratom powder every

380
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:30,880
day, multiple times a day for my
chronic pain.

381
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:32,680
I've never had to have a
tolerance break.

382
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:36,440
I know lots of people have had
to take tolerance breaks because

383
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:38,800
if they just keep going at the
rate they're going, they need

384
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,760
more, more, more.
And which sounds like what

385
00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:44,440
happened to you, you just taking
more and more.

386
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,320
And I I have not very sad at all
and I've not had to take a

387
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:50,960
tolerance break.
So I've been at the same I take

388
00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:56,960
about 5g multiple times it's
like 5-5 grams every six hours.

389
00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,840
So like 4 times a day.
So my Max is 20 grams a day

390
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:03,440
which.
For some people that's a lot,

391
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:05,720
for others they take a little
bit more.

392
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,280
But it sounds like what you're
telling me.

393
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,040
I didn't know you were at 70
grams a day.

394
00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,280
That's all.
That's a lot.

395
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:13,640
We don't hear that too often.
And I could see where that was

396
00:20:13,640 --> 00:20:16,360
hard to taper down off of
because that's a lot of powder.

397
00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:21,440
But if extracts are working
better, I think that's awesome.

398
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:22,760
You know that we.
Found that.

399
00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:29,240
Yeah, that work for you without
the issue of overuse and and you

400
00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:31,560
know, getting to the point where
you can't stop taking it.

401
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,120
Yeah, because it was like, it
was like every 3 1/2 hours I was

402
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:38,680
feeling hard withdrawals, like
like when I was taking that

403
00:20:38,680 --> 00:20:40,200
much, I should have never taken
that much.

404
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:42,520
I should have kept my tolerance
at at the right level.

405
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,480
But I did.
I said a few days, I can get

406
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,640
over it.
What was I wrong?

407
00:20:46,240 --> 00:20:49,120
So I said, OK, stop, stop the
bus here.

408
00:20:49,520 --> 00:20:52,040
I'm like, I'm going to start
writing down what I'm taking

409
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:53,400
every day.
I'm going to measure it.

410
00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:55,880
Got a scale?
I listen to all the advice on

411
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,360
Reddit, on YouTube, and
everywhere else and there's a

412
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:01,240
lot of very brilliant people out
there that really knew how to do

413
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,560
it.
So I was taking advice from

414
00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:05,680
everybody and at all, I brought
it all into one.

415
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,000
I'm like, OK, I'm going to
measure what I'm taking every

416
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,640
couple of days.
I'm going to take a little bit

417
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:13,040
off each dose.
And I was taking 8A day, 8 doses

418
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:14,800
a day.
So look, if you can still take

419
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:17,680
it a day, but just chop off a
little bit at a time while you

420
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:19,880
measure it.
So that's what I was doing every

421
00:21:19,880 --> 00:21:22,760
day with that measure, 8 times a
day.

422
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,720
I'll do that every day writing
down the log.

423
00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:29,800
I wish right now I don't know
where I put the papers at, but

424
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:35,000
and I finally got it down to 1/4
down, I think around 1/4 of a

425
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:40,200
grain of just holy every day.
One time a day I said, you're

426
00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,800
going to get that little bit at
night to say it's nothing.

427
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:47,160
It's nothing, you know, And I
finally said OK tonight nothing.

428
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:50,080
And then I finally slept all the
way through and I realized I

429
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:53,080
made it.
But I still at times had those.

430
00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:56,840
What do they call that?
That the post, forget what it's

431
00:21:56,840 --> 00:22:00,360
called, like a post withdrawal
or something, but every so

432
00:22:00,360 --> 00:22:02,680
often, like twice a week, I
would get that.

433
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,640
I'm up at 2:30 in the morning, I
can't go back to sleep.

434
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:07,520
That would happen every so
often.

435
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,120
And that's where the crowd was
nice.

436
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,720
OK, it's next to me.
Boom, I'm sleeping another five

437
00:22:13,720 --> 00:22:15,760
hours.
I'm golden, I'm recovered.

438
00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:18,960
That's what it did for me too,
is it helped me recover in

439
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:20,800
training.
So when you sleep you out,

440
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,400
obviously you recover.
So that's what it was giving me

441
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,520
that real hard sleep, 8 hours a
night.

442
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,920
I was strong, I was fast even
for my age, you know, I'm like,

443
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:34,400
this feels great.
But that was, yeah, that that's

444
00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:37,400
my story.
With that I learned.

445
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,440
Yeah, right.
Well, and I, I have to say it's,

446
00:22:41,440 --> 00:22:45,920
it's, it's nice when, when to
hear somebody who kind of fell

447
00:22:45,920 --> 00:22:49,920
into, you know, the hole you
went into were consuming a lot

448
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,880
of powder, trying to taper down,
trying to stop and how hard it

449
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:54,000
was.
I can't even imagine how

450
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,000
difficult that must have been.
I mean, just from you describing

451
00:22:57,000 --> 00:23:00,400
it, I get the picture.
It does not sound pleasant at

452
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:01,320
all.
But you're also taking

453
00:23:01,320 --> 00:23:04,600
responsibility.
So many people that we connect

454
00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:07,720
with through social media, they
demonize the, they blame the

455
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:09,840
plant.
They don't take responsibility

456
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:15,440
for when they overuse that
amount of Kratom and they come

457
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:17,480
after us.
We're the bad guys to them

458
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,320
because we're saying that, you
know, kratom is great.

459
00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:23,040
I mean, but we're always saying
like in moderation and and

460
00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:28,040
responsible use, but they just
don't ever take responsibility.

461
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,760
And it's just it's nice as as a
kratom consumer and advocate,

462
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,440
like to hear your story and that
like you're just taking full

463
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:37,840
responsibility that you
understood that you were taking

464
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,960
too much and it wasn't a great
idea.

465
00:23:40,160 --> 00:23:45,280
I can't even imagine how I don't
see how I could get 70 grams of

466
00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,480
powder down.
I mean, just the amount of

467
00:23:47,480 --> 00:23:51,000
powder I consume is, is enough.
And it's like, but we hear

468
00:23:51,000 --> 00:23:54,080
people talk about that and it
happens.

469
00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:57,320
We know that happens.
But also the, the positive with

470
00:23:57,320 --> 00:23:59,560
extracts is you're like you've
talked about, you're not having

471
00:23:59,560 --> 00:24:02,240
to consume all that powder.
You're getting that extract

472
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:04,600
form.
So it's, it's more concentrated.

473
00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:07,640
I mean, we, well, we talked to a
lot of people that are new to

474
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:11,280
kratom in our community online
and we're always trying to

475
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,640
educate people to understand
what they're consuming.

476
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,280
Because sometimes they go into a
smoke shop and the smoke shops

477
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:19,440
point to the extracts and they
don't, they hear us talk about

478
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:22,360
how great this is.
But we typically are talking

479
00:24:22,360 --> 00:24:25,760
about powder, which you know,
can be quite different from

480
00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,240
extracts.
And we just trying to make sure

481
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,520
people understand exactly what
you're consuming.

482
00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,120
And especially if an extract is
multiple servings because

483
00:24:34,120 --> 00:24:37,640
sometimes in very small print
it'll be like multiple servings,

484
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:41,280
but people see it looking like
the five hour G any energy drink

485
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:42,960
that you just down the whole
bottle.

486
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,800
So, yeah, so we're just only
trying to make sure people at

487
00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:51,480
least read exactly the packaging
of what they're consuming and

488
00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:55,680
know what it is.
You know that that's usually our

489
00:24:55,680 --> 00:24:58,920
take on it in the community.
Just know what you're consuming

490
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:02,080
and and you know, be
responsible.

491
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,640
But your story, John, is
fascinating of like how

492
00:25:06,760 --> 00:25:10,240
especially how I discovered you
from your video talking about

493
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,320
using kratom for grappling.
I didn't when I saw your video.

494
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:14,600
I have to say, I didn't know
what grappling was.

495
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:18,120
I had to go Google it to like,
you know, learn about it.

496
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:21,480
But I figured, I figured it was
like an MMA kind of thing like

497
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:23,640
you had said earlier.
Yeah, it's part of it.

498
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:28,520
Yeah.
I mean, yeah, it's nobody else I

499
00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,000
know takes it for training.
I do, I've, I've, I've

500
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,840
recommended it to people, but I
am, I'm always educating them

501
00:25:35,840 --> 00:25:38,480
too.
And I wish I was more educated

502
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:42,600
with the holy thing, but you
know, you live and learn.

503
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,000
That's me.
Trial by fire.

504
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:48,000
Yeah, and it happens.
I mean, that's life, you know,

505
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,480
that's real life.
And I know some people go

506
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:56,680
through that and then get, get
to the other side and are more

507
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,880
educated and can make better,
you know, better decisions on

508
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:03,120
moving forward, whether to stop
completely or like in your case

509
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,400
where you just switch to the
extracts and you, and from what

510
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,240
you're telling us, it works
great for you and helps you with

511
00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,840
your training, which is always
great to hear.

512
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,560
Is it helping you with any of
the pain issues that you've had?

513
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:20,200
Yeah, it does gets me through
that too, whether whether I'm,

514
00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:23,440
if I'm grappling or lifting
weights, it gets me like if I'm

515
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,200
contorted in all these positions
and grappling, I'm like, I

516
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:30,600
couldn't, I can't even show it
to you.

517
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:32,600
You know, you get in these weird
positions where you get, you

518
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,520
know, your back is twisted, your
arm is this way, your legs this

519
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:37,960
way.
You just imagine wrestling and

520
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,920
of course being in my age and
wrestling around with 20 year

521
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:43,600
old kids, you know, it's like
that's, that's a whole different

522
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,320
beast now.
I've been doing this for 30

523
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,280
years, but you know, it catches
up to you a little bit.

524
00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,040
It gets, it gets me through
those.

525
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,960
But the pain, yeah, it gets me
through it because I'll take it

526
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,200
after training also.
Like I'll take it a little bit

527
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,360
before, like 3:00 PM and then,
you know, have my coffee and all

528
00:27:01,360 --> 00:27:03,120
that.
I'll lift weights for an hour

529
00:27:03,360 --> 00:27:05,760
and then I'll go do my class.
And I teach too.

530
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,320
I'm a teacher, so I'm, I got to
coach the guy.

531
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:10,880
So that really it's good.
It's good for the whole thing.

532
00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:13,880
It just helps me.
It gets me into that vibe too.

533
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,280
Like I'm teaching because it
makes you want to talk a lot

534
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,520
anyway.
So I'm like, I'm like teaching

535
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,760
them how to do all this stuff
and it's I'm feeling good the

536
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:22,640
whole time.
And now I got to get physical

537
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:24,400
with them.
So I trained with them later.

538
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,480
That's a lot for a guy my age
going from weightlifting into

539
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,040
hard wrestling with a bunch of
guys.

540
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,840
So, you know, and, and for the
pain, it gets me through there.

541
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,640
Whatever's, whatever may be
hurting on me with the

542
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:39,320
adrenaline rush and of course
the cratum inside me now I'm

543
00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,760
saying cratum that's.
My fault, sorry.

544
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,720
That's all good.
It's, it's helping me, it's

545
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,240
helping me get through it all.
So I don't think about the

546
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:51,120
pigment.
It just sort of gets my mind off

547
00:27:51,120 --> 00:27:53,680
of it.
And of course, yes, ibuprofen is

548
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,440
a part of my vitamin path, you
know, so I'm taking sometimes

549
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,800
400 milligrams of I'd use after
the training just so the muscles

550
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,480
come down a little bit.
But I don't take that crap all

551
00:28:03,480 --> 00:28:06,480
day.
But, but ibuprofen is also a

552
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,160
part of a part of that.
So it's like I use a little eye

553
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:13,920
view at the night, my magnesium
and zinc, and I am sleeping, I

554
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,560
am sleeping, I'm recovering and
I can do it the next day.

555
00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:18,680
So yeah, for the pain,
absolutely.

556
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:22,320
It's smashed, the pain.
That's excellent.

557
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:26,800
That's great to hear.
Is, is kratom popular with the

558
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:29,200
grappling community?
Is this something that that you

559
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:31,800
know your your fellow community?
Do they, are they aware of

560
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,800
kratom?
Do they know much about it?

561
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,560
I, I, I brought it up to them.
A lot of people throughout the

562
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,040
years that I've been here in
Germany, but, and a lot of them

563
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,320
are loving stuff.
I'm like, I'm like, just be

564
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,040
careful, man.
Don't get too crazy.

565
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,520
Just, you know, just take a
little bit for training, know

566
00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:50,720
what you're doing, read about
it, educate yourself.

567
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,080
They got German websites that
talk about it, you know, so, but

568
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,760
yeah, they, I always try to
educate them on it, saying look,

569
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,720
just a little bit and then it'll
get you through.

570
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,880
And I don't know if it's super
popular.

571
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:08,720
I'm pretty sure that there are
gyms out there where people do

572
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,600
use it.
I don't know.

573
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:13,480
I don't know.
I don't know and I don't think

574
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,520
so.
But there are people in my

575
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,840
training that know about it.
There's one guy who went to

576
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,440
Thailand, or was it Thailand?
Yeah, I was in Thailand and he

577
00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:24,280
said a lot of the Thais before
they do Thai boxing, they'll be

578
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:26,480
they'll be taking it.
They'll they'll sneak up a

579
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,920
little drink and start taking
Grab and then they'll start

580
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,080
doing Thai boxing.
So yeah, the ties use it for

581
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,680
their sport, believe it or not.
So yeah.

582
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:36,760
That might be like their secret
weapon.

583
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,240
Like, we got this special leap
and we like our little tea.

584
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:41,440
Yeah.
Yeah.

585
00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,160
Because I I know over in
Southeast Asia, you know, it's

586
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:46,360
been used for thousands of years
over there.

587
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,480
Not so much the way we do it in
America.

588
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,360
I mean, it's mostly like them
just, you know, making a tea,

589
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,280
you know, putting the leaves in
a pot, boiling it, making a nice

590
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:56,720
little tea that they drink all
day.

591
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:00,000
But yeah, it's probably like
their little secret potion to to

592
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,560
do really well, you know, in the
ring.

593
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:05,920
That's so interesting.
But also you're over in Germany.

594
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:10,080
I have really been keeping up
with kratom legalities overseas.

595
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:14,480
I know there's some countries in
Europe that have been kratom and

596
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:17,320
I don't know, I just haven't
heard a whole lot.

597
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:20,080
So what was?
So in Germany everything's fine,

598
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,280
Like there's no issues with
kratom and nothing that comes up

599
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:27,440
in government about it.
So, you know, like I said before

600
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:29,600
I alluded to it, it was in
Belgium.

601
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:33,240
They they completely banned it.
And and so now Germany wants,

602
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:34,680
you know, it's following suit
there.

603
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,080
So they've got a whole community
of people over here that are

604
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:39,440
fighting against it and
rightfully so, including the

605
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,120
website where I get it from.
They've been very good to meet

606
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:43,160
these people.
They're very good.

607
00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:46,440
They're very good about delivery
product, you know, quality and

608
00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:50,680
everything else.
But yeah, we've got a community

609
00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:51,960
of people that are fighting
against it.

610
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:53,960
As far as Germany, it's in a
Gray area.

611
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,120
You know, if I order it from
America, which I did when I

612
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,560
first moved here, I was getting
it from the I am, I am sham.

613
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,560
And it would get here in about a
week and I would pay all the

614
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,040
fees or whatever and it would
get here and it was fine.

615
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,200
It was coming for about a couple
months, then all of a sudden I

616
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:14,160
got the custom stamp and I had
to go through that process.

617
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:17,600
So going through that
bureaucratic bullshit they did

618
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:19,280
the stuff from America was
something.

619
00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,880
So I mean, I'm like, OK, oh,
it's probably medicine, I don't

620
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:24,720
know.
But it's like, this is a yeah,

621
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,360
but it's not illegal, man.
You know, I was like, yeah, but

622
00:31:27,360 --> 00:31:29,640
we're going to have to test it.
And trust me, in Germany, you

623
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,600
ain't got a choice.
It's a different, it's a

624
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,240
different beast here.
They can do whatever they want.

625
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,160
The authorities, we can kind of,
we can kind of fight against our

626
00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,080
government, sort of an American
really.

627
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:41,960
But we can, there's loopholes
over here.

628
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,720
It's absolution.
You know, it's like, now we're

629
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,160
going to take it and we're going
to test it.

630
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,480
So there I am, you know, two
days away from it, going through

631
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,080
withdrawals a little bit.
You know, I'm like, fuck, you

632
00:31:52,080 --> 00:31:54,600
know, like this sucks.
And so I had to wait.

633
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:56,560
I had no anywhere else to get
anymore.

634
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,440
So I just had to man up through
it and and I probably got it

635
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,480
back in six weeks.
And they said, oh, everything's

636
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:03,640
good.
You can have this.

637
00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:05,880
Thanks.
Wow.

638
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:08,880
Yeah.
They either destroy it or they

639
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,520
give it back to you.
It's like you want to destroy

640
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,920
it.
I was like, Nah, give it back to

641
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,680
me.
It was my property.

642
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,320
I paid for that.
You know, it's like, so, yeah,

643
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:18,080
but it's a pain.
That's why you got to order it

644
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:20,520
within the EU.
Don't, don't be like, I'll tell,

645
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:23,720
I'll tell anybody over here, you
know, don't order it from

646
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:25,880
outside the country.
You're going to get a little bit

647
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:27,440
of an issue with it, with
customs.

648
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,360
So yeah.
But otherwise there's Europeans

649
00:32:32,360 --> 00:32:35,400
that do take it.
I think Germany has 1.1 million

650
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:38,680
advocates of it.
So it's like there's there,

651
00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:40,720
there's a bunch of people here
that you, they even got some

652
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:42,040
Youtubes.
It's all in German though.

653
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,720
You want to understand it?
Unless they've got some

654
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:47,560
subtitles, but there's some
German YouTube channels that

655
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:49,680
talk about it and what it's done
for them too.

656
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,640
So yeah.
Wow, that's interesting.

657
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:53,800
I did not know that.
OK.

658
00:32:53,960 --> 00:32:56,200
Do they sell it in shops?
Like is this something you just

659
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:58,680
get like, you know, here smoke
shops, all smoke shops sell it

660
00:32:58,680 --> 00:32:59,800
all over the country.
But.

661
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:01,880
I think, I think so they might
maybe.

662
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:05,320
I lived, I lived near
Heidelberg, which is South,

663
00:33:05,560 --> 00:33:08,160
southwest, close to the Black
Forest.

664
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,640
I think at Mannheim they might,
Mannheim is like 30 minutes

665
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,040
north, close to closer to
Frankfurt.

666
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:16,720
So I think so.
I'm pretty sure there's some

667
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,800
shops, but it's like you're
driving the Timbuktu, you know,

668
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,480
to go to go get it.
And it's like I, I don't even

669
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,480
bother now.
When I was in Greece, I found it

670
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:30,000
and I was in Athens, Greece
recently and I found a shop.

671
00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:35,920
I just looked it up and they had
the oil, you know, the the drops

672
00:33:36,040 --> 00:33:38,040
like so that was that was
interesting.

673
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,640
But they worked good.
It was very good.

674
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,080
It was white vein and it worked
very well.

675
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440
I'm like, it's not really good.
And they only had whole leaf

676
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,360
powder like another white vein.
So I just bought both just to

677
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,960
see and I bought them comma
because they had comma extract.

678
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,080
So I bought all three of them
just to see what it was like

679
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:55,960
quality.
It was quality.

680
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,760
It was pretty good.
So in Greece, I think they,

681
00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,000
Greece doesn't care.
It's like whatever they can have

682
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,240
that stuff, they can have
whatever.

683
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:07,600
They don't get too many problems
in that way, you know, So, but

684
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:10,760
that was my experience in Greece
and here, but that's all I can

685
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:12,520
really, I can only speak on
those two.

686
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,280
The Netherlands, no problem, you
know, but the Netherlands

687
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:18,880
doesn't have Cobb.
It's like really like I love

688
00:34:18,880 --> 00:34:20,400
Cobb.
You know, when I lived in West

689
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,159
Palm Beach, I drink Cobb all the
time too with the grass.

690
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:25,920
And they have their special
little drinks called a, you

691
00:34:25,920 --> 00:34:29,000
know, a black Pearl or a, they
have a special name for it.

692
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:30,920
But it's, it's a great
combination.

693
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:34,560
And that really, really does it
for you as far as pain goes, it

694
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:38,000
really helps everything.
So I mean this stuff to be

695
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,800
available over here, but it is
what it is.

696
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:44,440
But in the Netherlands, it's
marijuana or, you know, Cradam

697
00:34:44,440 --> 00:34:47,639
or whatever else.
But outside of that, I don't

698
00:34:47,639 --> 00:34:50,320
think they'll have Kava.
But but the Netherlands, it's

699
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,239
cool.
They they're pretty loose with

700
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:53,800
it.
And the company that I get from

701
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:56,360
in the Netherlands, it is in the
Netherlands, I mean, and they

702
00:34:56,360 --> 00:35:01,120
have a firm in Germany that just
distributes it whenever anybody

703
00:35:01,120 --> 00:35:02,680
orders.
So they don't put up with

704
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:05,840
customs because they have a firm
I think in Germany or something

705
00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:09,280
like that, you know, so it's
hopefully I'm not, you know,

706
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,920
getting them in trouble or
something, but I think they know

707
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:14,200
how to do it.
They can have any of their

708
00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:17,320
products here and then
distribute.

709
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:21,520
But in Germany, it's, I think
it's, it might be a little bit

710
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:25,800
of a weird situation for people
trying to get it in here and

711
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,880
sell it from a shop.
I think that might, I don't

712
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,000
know, but I could imagine
they're pretty picky over here.

713
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:35,120
So yeah, is what it is.
Yeah, may not be worth like

714
00:35:35,120 --> 00:35:38,000
setting up shop and having to
deal with all the government

715
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,600
issues that, you know, prop up.
Yeah.

716
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:42,440
Well, you know, over here in
America, there's always a

717
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:44,920
constant threat of kratom
getting taken away.

718
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,160
And it's just, it's, it's such a
pain to deal with.

719
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,280
It's always something because me
and my fellow kratom consumer

720
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:56,200
slash advocates, we're always
staying on top of the latest

721
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:00,000
legal issues here in the US.
And it's just this constant

722
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:03,920
where all of a sudden there'll
be some legislator in some state

723
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:07,080
that wants to just ban it.
And you know, it's, it's a

724
00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,920
process typically.
And you know, we'll watch some

725
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:12,280
of these hearings online and
talk about it.

726
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,240
I even have a little live stream
show called the kratom Gals

727
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,320
where me and some of my friends,
we get together, we watch

728
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,400
different videos we find on on
YouTube and TikTok.

729
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,760
And then if there's hearings
about possibly banning kratom,

730
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:27,960
we'll watch those and talk about
just to help educate everybody

731
00:36:27,960 --> 00:36:30,400
and just all of us be informed
of like all the different things

732
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,560
that go on in the world of
kratom.

733
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,280
But it's so frustrating.
It seems like there's always

734
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:39,160
some community that wants to ban
it lately across, whereas

735
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,880
whereas a city or a state,
there's always it's always under

736
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,160
threat.
Yeah, I mean, everybody always

737
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:47,600
wants to tell everybody what to
do.

738
00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:50,480
You know, it's like, I'm not
into that.

739
00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:53,480
Like I said, my libertarian ways
don't don't go anywhere in

740
00:36:53,480 --> 00:36:55,480
Germany.
So I just kind of have to flow

741
00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,000
with whatever happens here.
But, you know, that's, that's

742
00:36:58,000 --> 00:36:59,600
me.
I'm just like, just leave me

743
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,160
alone.
And, you know, like I don't,

744
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,920
I'll, I'll do, I'm an adult and
I'll do what I feel like I need

745
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:06,480
to do.
And if something happens and

746
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,160
I'll deal with it like a man,
you know, you're an adult,

747
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:10,360
right?
That's what I want to ask you.

748
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:12,360
That's what you are.
Yeah.

749
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:15,520
But you know how they are the
real pro government, I say.

750
00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,200
And it comes from both sides of
the spectrum too.

751
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,840
Believe me.
It's like everybody, it's not,

752
00:37:20,840 --> 00:37:23,400
nobody's saying nobody's special
on either side.

753
00:37:23,400 --> 00:37:25,160
Everybody always wants to
control something on the

754
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,800
political right or left.
And it's like, it's like,

755
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,120
fucking fuck off, leave me
alone.

756
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,080
You know, there's always
somebody in there that maybe

757
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:35,440
they, I don't know, maybe they
knew somebody.

758
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,080
Oh, I knew somebody that got
really sick on it.

759
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,480
And then people talk, no, don't
take that shit.

760
00:37:40,640 --> 00:37:42,080
It's sick.
And then it goes to the right

761
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,480
ear and then it just gets
fucking stamped.

762
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,160
And that happens often too,
where it just gets a bad name

763
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:50,760
and it's very uneducated.
Like when they talk about it,

764
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:53,080
it's such uneducated opinions on
it.

765
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:57,360
And it's like, don't speak on
something unless you've got all

766
00:37:57,360 --> 00:38:00,720
the fucking backs, man.
Exactly.

767
00:38:00,720 --> 00:38:03,720
We, we see that all the time
with these Kranem band hearings

768
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:05,760
where you get these people,
they're literally they're,

769
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,200
they're the decision makers, the
legislators and they're Googling

770
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:10,400
kratom.
They don't even know what it is.

771
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,320
They don't know how to pronounce
it yet.

772
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:14,840
They're making decisions on it.
So it's incredibly frustrating.

773
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,040
How long have you been over in
Germany?

774
00:38:17,040 --> 00:38:19,160
Like how long since you've been
in the US that you've been

775
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,960
overseas?
Oh, I've been here close to 18

776
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:24,680
years.
Oh, OK.

777
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:26,440
Yeah, I've been here a long
time.

778
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,680
But I came and visited every.
So I was just over there in in

779
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:33,360
January through February.
I was just over there and I was

780
00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:35,440
taking some of the crowd.
I'm over there.

781
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,960
And it was it was pretty good.
I still like to stop here

782
00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:41,440
better.
I don't know, I just, I like it

783
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:42,880
here.
Maybe the Netherlands has a

784
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,120
special sauce, you know.
Maybe, maybe or maybe maybe

785
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,400
since they're a little closer to
Asia, maybe there's just

786
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:51,840
something better about when they
get it versus when it makes it

787
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:56,120
all the way over to the US.
Who knows what since you travel

788
00:38:56,120 --> 00:39:00,160
though, like what are how how?
People ask this all the time,

789
00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:02,920
Like how to travel with kratom?
What are your thoughts on that?

790
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:08,000
I've traveled with it, yes.
Well, I've only gone back and

791
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:16,200
forth as far as plane rides go
to Greece and in America, so I

792
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:19,920
never used any other airports
around anywhere else.

793
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:26,880
But if I was to give any advice
to anybody as I look up the laws

794
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:29,880
of the country number one, and
see what they have on crowd, if

795
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:31,960
you're going to go to a country
where it's banned, then I

796
00:39:31,960 --> 00:39:33,240
suggest you don't bring it with
you.

797
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:38,360
Otherwise, how I travel with it,
I don't use Baggies #1 I'll put

798
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:41,320
it, I'll put it in a vitamin
bottle with zinc or something

799
00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,280
that says zinc on it and I'll
have my other vitamins with me.

800
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:46,920
But I'll just stick it in one of
those and like dump it inside

801
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:48,800
the bottle and just have it on
my carry on.

802
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,720
Nobody gives a shit.
It goes through the bang and

803
00:39:50,720 --> 00:39:53,000
it's done.
I got a buddy of mine who

804
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:55,800
literally took out Baggies of
cava and Pradam and they let it

805
00:39:55,840 --> 00:40:01,160
pass through with it and you're,
I'm like, dude, you really did

806
00:40:01,160 --> 00:40:02,520
that.
You just Baggies?

807
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,000
Out of the pocket, he just
didn't care and then he didn't

808
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:08,840
get bothered.
But I like to just be very

809
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:10,720
discreet.
So that's how I do it.

810
00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:13,400
I take a vitamin bottle that's
like those dark ones, you know,

811
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:16,320
and I just pour it in there and
it's just a part of all my

812
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:19,760
toothbrush and my whatever else
I bring with me with my various

813
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:22,320
whatnot and bring on the plane.
So that's how I do it.

814
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:26,520
But just make sure wherever it
is you go that it's not illegal

815
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:28,440
there because you're going to
run into some issues if they

816
00:40:28,440 --> 00:40:31,040
find it.
So that's my advice to those

817
00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:34,680
people.
And also I'm going to go back to

818
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,960
the quarter teaspoon.
This is the best way to try the

819
00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:39,280
extract.
Take a little bit of your

820
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:41,920
quarter teaspoon at a time, a
little bit of time.

821
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:44,240
Give it time.
Take a little bit more until you

822
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,400
reach your area.
Don't just sit there and gulp

823
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:47,760
it.
That's my advice.

824
00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,280
Also with that, I want to get
that as far as traveling goes,

825
00:40:52,280 --> 00:40:56,400
be smart.
Yeah, yeah, but absolutely be

826
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,560
smart for sure.
Definitely research the laws

827
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:00,760
where even in the US, when
people are saying they're

828
00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:03,960
travelling within the US, you
know, if you have a layover

829
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,840
somewhere, like know what the
laws are everywhere you're going

830
00:41:07,840 --> 00:41:10,320
to be, any part you're touched
down in because.

831
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,200
But also, even when you're
driving and travelling, you

832
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,720
know, we hear stories about
truck drivers that like drive

833
00:41:16,720 --> 00:41:20,600
all over the US and they're
weren't necessarily aware that

834
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:23,800
there are a handful of states
where it is banned to the point

835
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,600
that's considered Schedule 1
narcotic that you'd go to jail

836
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,400
if you're caught with it.
So it's always knowing like

837
00:41:30,520 --> 00:41:35,280
wherever you're traveling by by
car, by by plane or anywhere,

838
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,800
just like what are the laws in
every place you're going to be

839
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,360
in traveling in just to know and
just, you know, be safe.

840
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:47,560
But yeah, I like how how you
discreetly bring kratom.

841
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:50,680
I've heard a lot of people say
do it the way you describe.

842
00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:54,480
There's also a quite a few
people that say, you know what,

843
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:58,880
just bring it in the package.
It comes in unopened, like, you

844
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,160
know, not to try to hide it.
I don't know, that kind of makes

845
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:05,160
me nervous.
I, but the last time I traveled

846
00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:08,960
on plane, I did just have some
small packages of kratom powder

847
00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:12,000
in the original packaging.
I had no issues.

848
00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:14,480
Everywhere I was going was safe
to, to travel to.

849
00:42:15,120 --> 00:42:17,680
But it's like, whatever it is
that makes you most comfortable,

850
00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:19,840
right?
And I mean, I've, I've been

851
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:22,680
like, I think I want to
discreetly put it in a vitamin

852
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:24,800
bottle and I was going to do
that.

853
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,480
But then at the last minute I
changed my mind.

854
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:28,760
But it's just, I think it pulls
down to what are you comfortable

855
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,920
doing?
But it's great you're discussing

856
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:33,680
this with us on the podcast
because people like to hear from

857
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,720
other people, like what was
their experience?

858
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:38,720
How did they do it?
And since we were talking about,

859
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:40,880
you know, with your travels and
stuff, I thought, you know, it'd

860
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,960
be helpful if people knew like,
how did you travel with your

861
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:45,480
Kratom?
And I guarantee you somebody's

862
00:42:45,480 --> 00:42:47,640
listening going, that's a great
idea.

863
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:51,400
And next time I travel with my
Kratom, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm

864
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,400
going to do like what John says.
That's a great idea.

865
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,160
I mean, it's it's always worked
for me.

866
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:58,160
It's always, I mean, don't get
me wrong, I've done it with a

867
00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:01,640
baggie before, but you know,
it's like, but with their X-ray

868
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,480
machines, they see this thing,
it looks like a baggie and like,

869
00:43:04,560 --> 00:43:07,680
Oh, well, what is this could and
they just decide to fuck with

870
00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:09,560
you.
You know, it's like, I just, I

871
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:12,320
just avoid all that shit.
And if ever it did came up in

872
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:15,040
the bottle, like what is this?
I will just tell them what it is

873
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,600
as long as I'm not going to a
country where it's illegal, you

874
00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,080
know, otherwise you shouldn't be
bringing it in the first place.

875
00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:25,400
But yeah, I would just be be
honest with them.

876
00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,080
And that's that's what that is.
I that's it.

877
00:43:28,080 --> 00:43:31,120
What are they going to do?
That might keep you in a room

878
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,720
for a couple minutes and then
figure it out and then let me

879
00:43:33,720 --> 00:43:37,120
go.
It's, yeah, it's, I mean, I

880
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:39,440
think it can be kind of a hassle
maybe to travel with.

881
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,640
No, like it just depends on
where you go.

882
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:45,000
Some places they just make their
own dandy rules and who knows,

883
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,200
you know, who knows?
But I traveled.

884
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,160
I don't go to third world
countries or anything like that.

885
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:53,120
So I'm usually just going back
and forth from Europe to the

886
00:43:53,120 --> 00:43:55,960
States whenever I go.
That's my experience.

887
00:43:56,200 --> 00:44:00,240
I use a vitamin bottle.
Yeah, yeah, I think I think

888
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:01,840
that's some pretty darn good
advice.

889
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:04,800
Well, this has been such a great
conversation, John, Really great

890
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:07,240
getting to know you better,
hearing your personal journey

891
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:09,640
with kratom.
Now the last question for you,

892
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:12,560
knowing, of course, knowing
everything you know now about

893
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:16,040
kratom and you know, I mean,
you've been at this a long time.

894
00:44:16,040 --> 00:44:18,960
I don't know if I've met anybody
that started consuming Kratom

895
00:44:18,960 --> 00:44:21,000
that far back.
I mean, gosh, you're just about

896
00:44:21,320 --> 00:44:23,840
at 20 years now.
But knowing everything you know

897
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:27,960
now, what advice would you give
someone just now starting to

898
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,280
kind of help them in the kratom
journey?

899
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:31,560
I know you've already mentioned
a few times about, you know,

900
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,360
going really slow and using the
quarter teaspoon and stuff.

901
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,040
But what would be like the
different types of advice you

902
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:39,400
give to somebody that just wants
to give this a go and get

903
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,680
started, but just are trying to
educate themselves?

904
00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:46,880
Well, I mean, of course,
definitely, you know, get online

905
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,680
and and Google it and get or
just get somewhere to find the

906
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:53,600
right information.
Number one, just research it,

907
00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,360
read it.
See the people over here, they

908
00:44:55,360 --> 00:44:57,160
do a lot of that.
They're like, I want to find out

909
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,760
that they're like very OK, I
want, I want to see what's going

910
00:45:00,760 --> 00:45:02,800
on.
Some people are just see.

911
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,120
So I would suggest you know,
that that they look it up and

912
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:13,040
educate themselves on it and get
on sites like I mean, people

913
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,880
always smash Reddit and all
those well, like Reddit's got a

914
00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,760
lot of good information.
I would say get on Reddit or a

915
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,120
lot of these other websites or
just get with somebody that has

916
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:25,000
taken before us that's
experienced with it and let them

917
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,680
give you some advice.
Also, if your local cobble bar

918
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,520
has it, you know, maybe maybe
somebody there can give you

919
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,320
advice, but they like to stay
very discreet those cobble bars.

920
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:39,000
So I probably wouldn't be a good
idea either, you know, just

921
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:41,800
research it and and get on like
Reddit.

922
00:45:41,840 --> 00:45:43,840
You could be pretty free about
how you talk about things.

923
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,160
I learned so much on that from
other people.

924
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,920
And, and you could just put the
question down or even in Quora,

925
00:45:50,360 --> 00:45:53,000
you know, and just say, you
know, for extract, how should I,

926
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:55,280
there's always going to be
somebody with a smart answer.

927
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,440
There's always going to be
somebody with a stupid answer,

928
00:45:57,440 --> 00:45:59,640
but there's always going to be
somebody with a smart answer

929
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,720
that will give you the proper
advice on how to take an

930
00:46:01,720 --> 00:46:06,600
extract, whether it be a 10XA20X
or whatever, or whatever it is

931
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,840
that they, they created.
Like, especially with extracts,

932
00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:12,960
you know, make sure you, I mean,
my, my thing is 1/4 teaspoon,

933
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,200
right?
But you can go with an eighth of

934
00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:17,480
a teaspoon and be just fine with
extracts.

935
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:20,760
I think for anybody that's start
off with an 8, see what it's

936
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,760
like and then, you know, and
then if there's something, then

937
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,840
just keep, if it doesn't, you're
not quite getting it and feeling

938
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:29,560
it and just take a little bit
more until just a little bit

939
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,280
tiny bit micro micro.
And that's that's how you learn

940
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:37,560
or like I said, research Reddit
Cora something that's going to

941
00:46:37,560 --> 00:46:39,240
give you some good advice on how
to take it.

942
00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,840
That's my advice.
Excellent advice.

943
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,000
Well, thank you so much, John
for being on the podcast and

944
00:46:45,000 --> 00:46:47,800
sharing your journey with us.
It's always interesting hearing

945
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:49,800
people's stories.
I really appreciate your time.

946
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:51,320
I thank you.
I appreciate it.

947
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:51,880
I had fun.