Ep 68: Abram Jacobson Talks Kratom, Kava, and Responsible Use

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I can't say enough positive
things about initially stepping

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into kratom and again, coming
from a recreational perspective

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because I wasn't overcoming an
addiction at the time and you

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know, I wasn't in any
significant pain.

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I I will say when I have hurt
myself, I'm.

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I.
Refuse to take any sort of

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pharmaceutical opiates.
So a little bit of.

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Kratom goes a long way for my
pain.

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You know I'm not allowed to tell
people kratom helps with pain.

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That's the sticky part, but I
can tell.

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You from personal experience,
absolutely.

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It has helped me deal with lower
back issues and stuff when I've

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hurt myself at the gym without
getting me high, you know, and I

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think that that's invaluable.
So I'm here with Abraham,

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somebody I met because I was on
NBC Nightly News.

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If you don't know, definitely
check it out.

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I'll make sure there's a link to
it in the show notes.

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But I was recently on the
national news and Abraham

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reached out to me to chat and I
invited him to come on the

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podcast.
So Abraham, I'm so glad we

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connected from a little news
story I did recently.

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Appreciate you doing that.
Absolutely I was.

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Delighted to see that for once
there was a news format that

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wasn't totally biased against
kratom, so when I saw that you

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were.
Out there I was like I got.

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To find a way to.
Reach out to her.

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See if there's some synergy
here.

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I'm so glad you did.
Well, when NBC producers reached

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out to me, they found me through
my through this podcast, which

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is awesome.
And that is cool.

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They were very impressed with my
story.

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We had a long talk on the phone
and super impressed.

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And next thing you know, they're
flying out to my home to spend

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hours with me, interviewing me.
They they wanted to film me

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making kratom and consuming it,
having me sit right here in this

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chair and doing my podcast.
And it was a wonderful

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experience.
But I knew it was going to be a

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short news segment.
I knew they did tell me they

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would be somebody else there
interviewing for the other side

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of kratom, but overall I think
that was pretty balanced.

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Usually don't see anything
positive about kratom in

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national news.
Not at all.

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And it's a, it's a stark
contrast to what I experienced

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personally when the Tampa Bay
Times reached out to me because

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they produced a pretty terrible
article.

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We as a team, we actually.
Showed up to protest that

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article, but.
You could tell it was going to

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be a negative spin from the
moment I talked to the

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journalist.
And so, yeah, it was a breath of

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fresh air.
I was, I was delighted to see it

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because we need representation
that's neutral.

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We need representation that's
positive because the vast

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majority of it is is just.
It paints a terrible picture for

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people who want to consider
kratomism as another

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alternative.
Yeah, absolutely.

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And that's one of the reasons
why I started this podcast.

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I've been consuming kratom daily
for six years for my chronic

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pain.
It's been a game changer for me

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and it is for so many other
people I talked to, but not just

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people that suffer from chronic
pain.

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There's so many other ailments
and it's just an interesting

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plant that there's not enough
information about it, like good

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positive, factual information.
And I think there's nothing

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better than first hand
experience from others and just

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hearing these kratom stories.
So I'm really interested to hear

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your story about how you got
started.

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So why don't you tell us like
life before kratom and what was

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going on in your life?
For sure.

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I am one of the.
Proud, proud.

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Recreational kratom users OK, I
want to make that very clear.

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I I don't have any chronic
ailments.

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I'm blessed to not have chronic
pain that I deal with.

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Fitness is a huge part of my
life and kratom plugs in so well

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with my life that I know its
potential for others is

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tremendous.
You know, growing up, I had a

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single mom, she was a
superwoman.

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She, I can't say enough positive
things about her.

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I talked to her multiple times a
week.

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She was amazing.
But I I was a goody 2 shoes I

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played.
Violin, I was homeschooled.

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I, I did martial arts and at
some point in time growing up

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without a dad, you know, being a
little bit different because if

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you're growing up as a young man
and you play the violin, you're

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not exactly the cool kid.
I figured out that I could make

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a lot more friends if I started
to do the kind of cruddy things

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that my friends were getting
into.

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So, you know, drugs were pretty
much my first foray into making

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my own decisions.
They were my decisions, but they

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weren't necessarily.
Good decisions, so.

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Growing up I had the goody 2
shoes era and then I got into

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the rough patch and eventually
around the age of 20 I drove up

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to New York to spend a month
with my.

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Biological father for the.
First time in my life and it was

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at that moment when I decided to
get my butt into gear and try

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and become what my mom worked so
hard to make me be.

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But I knew nothing about kratom.
I'm 34 years old and from my

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20s, I would say until about 24
is when I was first introduced

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to kratom.
So about 10 years ago, I had no

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idea that there were plants that
could be an exit door or the

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lesser of many evils, you know?
I mean, obviously through

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college I drank a lot, I partied
a lot.

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But I did well in school and I
used to work in hospitality at

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Red Lobster of all places.
I worked at three different

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locations.
I graduated debt free from

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college by waiting tables and
having roommates.

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So my first discovery of kratom
came along with Kava.

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But it was.
Because we went to the beach in

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Saint Petersburg.
Florida, which is where I still

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reside.
And on our.

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Beach Tuesday trip.
My friend Nicholas Jackson said,

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hey, guess what, man?
I just tried some Kava and I'm

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like, what's that?
He's like, well, it's kind of

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like alcohol, gives you a mild
buzz.

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Blah.
Blah blah.

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So we we had our whole day.
Of drinking and partying at the

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beach.
And on my way home, I saw Bula.

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Cafe which is a Kaaba.
Bar in Saint Pete's one of the

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1st and I busted AU turn and I
popped in there and I can still

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remember my first ever Kaaba
tender.

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His name was Blake and my first
ever friend from over 10 years

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ago, Sean and I sat down at the.
Bar I had Kava.

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And I had Kraven and I had a
magical time talking with Sean

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and Blake and the other people
that were in there.

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This big question kind of like
popped into my head.

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Where was this stuff when I was
a a teenager?

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Where?
We didn't know where it what it

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was.
But.

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Anyways, from that point forth,
I knew that I found a second

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home and I used to live in
Tampa.

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So I would drive across the
bridge.

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Four or five or six times a
week.

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Just to go to this Kaaba bar.
And it was the first time in my

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life where I made friends that
were not a consequence of

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school.
Or work.

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I met a whole new circle of
people.

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I met people who were former
addicts.

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I met other college kids.
I met people who were there

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recreationally and I met people
who were there therapeutically.

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And so that was my first time at
Bula Cafe having kratom and Kava

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together.
They go hand in hand for me and

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from that point forth.
I was.

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I was hooked, not in like a bad
way or a life destroying way.

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Actually there were periods of
time where I would just quit

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taking kratom all together to
see is it the kratom and Kava

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that's making me come to this.
Place or is it actually?

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The sense of community that I
feel.

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And during those times where I
would take a hiatus from Kava or

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kratom, I learned that, hey,
it's the atmosphere too, and I

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love it.
And so I've been drinking kratom

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tea or taking kratom products
for 10 years and hopefully that

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answers your question.
But Kava bars?

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They were my introduction.
That is so interesting.

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I know in Florida that is such a
big booming industry we just

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don't have as many cava bars.
I I live in Houston which is the

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4th largest city in the country
and I only know of 1 and it's

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like way out north of town.
It's pretty far from where I

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live.
But why isn't that so popular in

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Florida you think?
I've always been curious about

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that.
Well, yeah.

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Great question by the way.
I think I've been to that Cava

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bar in Houston.
I travel a lot and I think it's

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called the Elixir Lounge, not
mistaken.

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Very cool place in a tiny little
town.

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It's awesome.
So there's some interesting

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things about Florida 1 is that
up until recently, real estate

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prices are very low.
And the pace of the of the state

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is pretty chill.
Unless you're in Miami.

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But.
I would say that between Bula

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and low tide they were kind of
like and the knock down on the

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east.
Coast of Florida, they.

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Were kind of like the formative
members of Kava bars in the

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state of Florida and once they
gained a significant enough

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following pretty much anybody
that walked into one of these

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Kava bars that had a breath of
entrepreneurial spirit said I'm

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going to open one of these one
day, see how well they're doing,

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see what kind of culture and
community they're creating.

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I want to do that myself, right.
So I think the seed gets

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planted.
There's a community.

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That rallies.
Rallies.

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Behind the plants, people with
entrepreneurial spirit decide

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they want to step up and they
want to, they want to go out on

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a limb and adventure and and
make their own business.

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And so I think in Florida, we've
got like 300 Kaaba.

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Bars.
But it matches.

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The vibe a lot of these places
are.

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Very island themed, you know
we've.

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Got the beach right here.
As to why Texas?

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It just hasn't.
Taken off yet the only thing I

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can think.
Of is the pace of the city in

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Houston.
It's so busy, it's so

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fast-paced.
It compresses people.

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And it's hard to imagine a
community within Houston having

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the time to sit down and bond.
Of course they can.

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But then when you can't find a
good commercial real estate

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piece that you know has adequate
parking, just it's hard.

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It's hard to do.
My hope is that in the next 10

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years, there will be hundreds of
CAVA bars in the state of Texas

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and dozens in any other state.
They can support them.

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I would rather see more CAVA.
Bars that sell.

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Kratom and cava than alcohol
bars.

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They're far more beneficial to
the community.

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Yeah, I totally agree.
So when you started going to

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this Kava bar 10 years ago, did
you just initially just try the

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Kava drinks or were you doing
the Kava kratom drinks or when

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did you like just try kratom?
Like I don't know a whole lot

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about Kava bars, but I know they
typically sell a variety of

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drinks.
They do great question.

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So I I'm a weird.
Bird.

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I will try any food twice.
My mom going back on her for a

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second, you know, she's always
been about holistic medicine and

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turmeric and flaxseed and all
these things.

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So my palate isn't totally
offended with earthy flavors.

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So when I was there the first
time I tried both of them.

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I tried cava, I tried kratom.
Arguably I.

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Probably felt the kratom.
And thought it was the cava,

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right?
It took me a long time to

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cultivate a taste for cava and
to understand how it makes my

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body feel.
But yeah, I mean.

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There.
Was a period of time where I was

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staying up too late during the
week and I was drinking too much

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kratom tea and I had to tone
back as a result.

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Even now, while I take kratom
daily, I don't take kratom past

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a certain point in the evening
or.

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Cava.
For that matter.

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Or alcohol.
If I do have a beer or two, I

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try to cut it off about 3 hours
before I go to sleep because.

227
00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:24,600
Anything I seem to take hurts my
sleep quality.

228
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,240
But.
Yeah, I jumped in with both feet

229
00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:30,200
to both plants right off the
bat.

230
00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,960
Yeah, you know, I, I've been
hearing about cava so much for

231
00:11:34,960 --> 00:11:39,560
years and I finally tried some
last week, some cava shot.

232
00:11:39,560 --> 00:11:44,400
It's just a cava only shot from
a, a vendor that, that I use

233
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,200
their Kratom and I finally
decided to try it and I was

234
00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,680
super impressed.
Like it's like a really nice

235
00:11:49,680 --> 00:11:53,120
chill feeling you get from it.
I didn't take it with my Kratom.

236
00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,080
I mean maybe an hour or two
apart, but I can see why less

237
00:11:57,080 --> 00:11:58,560
popular.
And then you got all these

238
00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:01,440
kratom cava drinks, Although it
seems like a lot of them get

239
00:12:01,680 --> 00:12:05,880
overused, like people just drink
too many of them and have issues

240
00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,400
because of it.
But it seems like it responsible

241
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:12,680
use is is a great botanical.
Yeah, it is.

242
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,560
You know, so this this
misinformation campaign against

243
00:12:16,560 --> 00:12:19,280
kratom and cava, you'll find
that in the studies that were

244
00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,800
done on cava in particular, they
tried to ban it a long time ago.

245
00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,360
Fortunately, it seems like Cava
has been grandfathered into all

246
00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:29,960
50 states but.
They took a bunch of.

247
00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:34,080
Rats that were sick, they had
like end stage liver failure and

248
00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:37,720
gave these rats an inhumane
amount of cava extract.

249
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,640
The study doesn't tell you what
the percentage of the extract

250
00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:43,200
was, how it was extracted,
whether or not it was combined

251
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:47,320
with alcohol, and concludes by
saying that cava.

252
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,640
Causes liver toxicity.
You know, it's like the

253
00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,400
equivalent of taking unhealthy
me who's an alcoholic with a

254
00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,800
failing liver and giving me like
5 or 6.

255
00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:01,560
Kilos of Kava every.
Day until I die, right?

256
00:13:01,560 --> 00:13:06,680
So Kava from what I can tell and
I, you know, I work with the

257
00:13:06,680 --> 00:13:09,200
plant from what?
I can tell it has a little bit

258
00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:10,360
of a reverse.
Tolerance.

259
00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,880
So the first time you try Kava,
you're really not going to feel

260
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,280
it takes.
Subsequent, use to get an.

261
00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:17,680
Idea of how it's going to affect
you.

262
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,840
But.
It seems like Kava is probably

263
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,680
the most benevolent intoxicant
on the planet.

264
00:13:23,680 --> 00:13:25,440
Does not seem to be habit
forming.

265
00:13:26,440 --> 00:13:29,040
It doesn't seem to be harmful to
the body unless you drink

266
00:13:29,040 --> 00:13:31,120
alcohol in conjunction with
Kava.

267
00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:32,840
Because they're both processed
by the same.

268
00:13:32,840 --> 00:13:36,080
Enzymes in the liver.
It seems to affect the same

269
00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,720
parts of the brain that alcohol
does.

270
00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,600
But beneficial thing about Kava
is you don't get a hangover

271
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,200
effect.
If you do feel buzzed from Cava

272
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:47,000
the.
Sensation doesn't last very

273
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:47,840
long.
It will.

274
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:51,160
Fade away quite quickly.
And you can actually eat spicy

275
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:52,760
food.
Apparently that helps it go

276
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,600
away.
But it's a topical anesthetic,

277
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:58,040
so it does numb the mouth.
It's.

278
00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:00,920
It's a.
Little bit of a muscle relaxer.

279
00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:03,680
So it has benefits in post
workout scenarios.

280
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:07,120
It has benefits to help you
unwind socially, diminish

281
00:14:07,120 --> 00:14:11,680
anxiety, things of that nature.
And I've I mean again, how much

282
00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:15,040
anecdotal evidence do you have
in your life until it becomes

283
00:14:15,040 --> 00:14:17,280
substantial?
I've been going to cava bars for

284
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:21,560
10 years and between kratom and
cava I have seen dozens.

285
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,920
Of people who were ravished by
addiction, whether it was

286
00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,800
alcohol, opiates or other drugs,
that.

287
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:31,920
Now hold down jobs.
OK, that have started.

288
00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:35,240
Families have gotten married,
have had kids, have had dogs.

289
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:38,120
All sorts of stuff they've come.
Back to life by going to these

290
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:40,160
places and having kratom or
cava.

291
00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,800
So while I like to use that and
swing it around as a great

292
00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:45,240
example.
It's.

293
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,160
A prolific example.
I mean, you go to any Kaaba bar

294
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,280
in the state of Florida right
now and you might be sitting

295
00:14:51,280 --> 00:14:54,640
down next to somebody whose life
is night and day different from

296
00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,320
what it used to.
Be with alcohol specifically, I

297
00:14:57,320 --> 00:14:59,240
would say that vast majority of
times.

298
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:02,080
People who develop a problem
with alcohol.

299
00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:04,560
That can.
Be the most harmful addiction of

300
00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:06,520
all because it's so socially
acceptable.

301
00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:10,240
Yeah.
Yeah.

302
00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:13,440
You know what's so interesting
with this podcast, so many

303
00:15:13,440 --> 00:15:16,480
interviews I've done with this
where people are telling me

304
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:21,280
about, oh, they struggled with a
drug addiction or they have

305
00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:25,120
chronic pain issues like myself.
And we'll talk about it.

306
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:28,080
And then at some point they'll
say, you know, since using

307
00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,400
kratom, I don't ever have the
desire to drink anymore.

308
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,760
Like it's a secondary thing they
got out of it.

309
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,480
I know there are plenty of
people do use kratom

310
00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:39,840
specifically to stop using
alcohol to help help with that

311
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,160
alcohol addiction.
But it's interesting about how

312
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,760
many people like weren't using
kratom for that.

313
00:15:44,760 --> 00:15:47,360
They're using it for something
else that was a bigger problem

314
00:15:47,360 --> 00:15:50,240
in their life.
But it was almost like, oh, the

315
00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,040
cherry on top, like, you know, I
mean, I've had I've, I've

316
00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:56,440
interviewed somebody for this
podcast who was a hardcore drug

317
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,600
addict and Kratom has changed
her life.

318
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:05,680
And she was telling me in the
interview, like, I have a six

319
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:08,160
pack of beer that's been in my
fridge for a longest time.

320
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:09,840
Like normally it wouldn't last
very long.

321
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:12,120
She goes, I have no desire to
drink it.

322
00:16:12,120 --> 00:16:15,400
I'm going to pour it out.
It's just amazing because people

323
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:18,040
are not thinking of that at the
time that they're consuming.

324
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:21,360
But then they're like wow, I
realize I don't crave alcohol

325
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:22,960
anymore.
Yeah.

326
00:16:23,320 --> 00:16:26,680
I mean, look, alcohol has been
used as a tool to manipulate

327
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:27,640
society.
For a lot.

328
00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:29,840
Longer than either of us have
been alive.

329
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:35,040
I, I, I love Stoic philosophy.
And if you read Marcus Aurelius

330
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,160
Meditations, he'll talk about,
you know, basically that alcohol

331
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,160
is used to dull the masses.
So.

332
00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:45,320
Why would I be?
Interested in booze and I have a

333
00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,400
lot of alcohol at my house that
collects.

334
00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:48,800
Dust.
Why would I be?

335
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,920
Interested in something that's
going to make me feel horrible

336
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:52,760
the next day.
Every.

337
00:16:52,760 --> 00:16:54,400
Single time I drive down the
road.

338
00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,600
Again, I mentioned this to you
before we got on this call, that

339
00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:00,680
I worked in the tobacco industry
and I saw how harshly regulated

340
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:03,560
tobacco was, and for good
reason.

341
00:17:03,560 --> 00:17:05,520
I know it's not good for you.
But if I can drive.

342
00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:08,160
Down the road and see a
billboard for a watermelon

343
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:12,599
flavored seltzer that has
alcohol and that doesn't appeal

344
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,400
to children.
But.

345
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,480
A watermelon flavored cigarillo
appeals to children in this

346
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,599
band.
We have a major case of

347
00:17:19,599 --> 00:17:21,640
hypocrisy going on in this
country.

348
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,760
Alcohol for.
Me, you know, I've had some

349
00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:29,840
magical nights where I went out
with the boys or my friends or

350
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:31,320
Co workers.
We had a blast.

351
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,680
The next day I woke up and said,
Gee, that was that was amazing.

352
00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:38,400
Every ad you see for Budweiser.
Makes it appear that that moment

353
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:41,120
is magical when you have alcohol
by your side.

354
00:17:41,520 --> 00:17:46,760
But nine times, maybe 95 times
out of 100 or 99 out of 100,

355
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:49,360
when you go out to a bar, it's
not magical.

356
00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:52,120
You get bored, you know.
You're like, let me go play some

357
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:55,000
darts.
You're having a an uninspired

358
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,960
conversation with a colleague
and you wake up the next day and

359
00:17:57,960 --> 00:17:59,120
you pay for it.
So.

360
00:17:59,120 --> 00:18:02,080
When you can go to a kratom bar
and sit down and have a kratom

361
00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:05,440
tea, have an amazing
conversation, wake up the next

362
00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,240
day and not skip a beat, not
feel hungover and not feel

363
00:18:08,240 --> 00:18:10,680
lethargic.
Go to work, have a great day.

364
00:18:10,920 --> 00:18:12,760
You're not.
Putting on weight because you're

365
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:14,880
drinking a six pack of beer
every night, you're drinking

366
00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:18,320
something that has 0 calories,
maybe a little lemon and some

367
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,440
sweetener in there.
But yeah, unintended consequence

368
00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,040
for sure is that it's a lot
harder for me to justify going

369
00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:29,040
out and drinking when I have
kratom in my life.

370
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:31,880
And I think that's amazing.
Obviously alcohol companies

371
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:33,400
don't want to hear that.
They don't want to see it.

372
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,600
But.
I think our society is calling

373
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,160
for that.
I just saw a study that said

374
00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:39,680
Gen.
Z is the is the lowest rate of

375
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,360
consumption of alcohol out of
any generation we've had in the

376
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:44,360
last 100 years.
And I think that's amazing

377
00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:47,240
because they're looking for
something else, whether it's

378
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:49,880
kratom or not, you know, remains
to be seen.

379
00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,800
But if they're not interested in
drinking like our like, you know

380
00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:57,240
I was or you know, my parents
generation was, I think society

381
00:18:57,240 --> 00:19:00,400
will be better for it.
Yeah, I I agree.

382
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,960
So let's go back to like when
you first started kratom.

383
00:19:06,240 --> 00:19:08,200
How?
Tell us about your experience

384
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:09,400
when you first started with
that?

385
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,280
Like how?
How did it impact your daily

386
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:18,400
life and overall well-being?
Well, I I can tell you I had

387
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,760
some.
Sometimes where I over consumed

388
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,000
it before I really figured out
what my appropriate dosage.

389
00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:25,720
Level is, you know there.
Were sometimes where I got

390
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:29,040
nausea but you know initially
what I noticed is that when I

391
00:19:29,040 --> 00:19:31,800
took kratom I was.
More talkative.

392
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:34,720
I felt like I was a better
listener.

393
00:19:35,120 --> 00:19:37,560
And I was kind of more in tune
with what was going on.

394
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,640
Again, this was of course in
tandem with the Kava.

395
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:42,080
Bar.
So I became.

396
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,320
Kind of like obsessed with being
a social butterfly, getting out

397
00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:48,640
there interacting and meeting
people and it.

398
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,160
Helped me decompress.
Big time.

399
00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:52,920
I mean, I was just starting a
new career.

400
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:54,600
I was learning everything I
possibly could.

401
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,800
I was pushing.
I was burning the candle at both

402
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:01,760
ends, so they say.
And for me, kratom was a great

403
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,800
release button that didn't
necessarily harm my professional

404
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,600
trajectory because I wasn't
hungover.

405
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:09,680
You know, I was getting into the
office on time and it gave me

406
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,120
something to look forward to
when my day was through.

407
00:20:12,680 --> 00:20:16,800
So yeah, I can't say enough
positive things about initially

408
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,760
stepping into kratom and again,
coming from a recreational

409
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:21,200
perspective.
Because.

410
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:26,000
I wasn't overcoming an addiction
at the time and you know, I

411
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,480
wasn't in any significant pain.
I will say when I have hurt

412
00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:34,360
myself, I'm I refuse to take any
sort of pharmaceutical.

413
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,240
Opiates.
So a little bit of kratom.

414
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,160
Goes a long way for my pain.
You know I'm not allowed to tell

415
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,680
people kratom helps with pain.
That's.

416
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,760
The sticky part, but I can tell
you from.

417
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,280
Personal experience, absolutely.
It has helped me deal with lower

418
00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:51,400
back issues and stuff when I've
hurt myself at the gym without

419
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,480
getting me high, you know, and I
think that that's invaluable.

420
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:59,160
Oh yeah, for sure.
Do you, do you consume kratom

421
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,760
daily or just as you feel like
is something you want to get?

422
00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:06,800
Like, you know, being a
recreational user, I'm sure is

423
00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:09,880
very different from those of us,
like myself, suffer from chronic

424
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:11,600
pain and like I need to take it
every day.

425
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,680
So I so I'm not suffering from
pain and not having to take

426
00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:19,280
pharmaceuticals.
Yeah, I so I do.

427
00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:23,600
I take it every day.
I take these little chewable.

428
00:21:23,600 --> 00:21:25,360
Tablets, they're they're a
medium.

429
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:30,000
Dosage I would.
Say the medium dosage, 45

430
00:21:30,000 --> 00:21:33,360
milligrams of mitrogenene per
tablet.

431
00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:34,960
I might take two or three of
those a day.

432
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,840
I cut myself off usually in the
afternoon and then when I want

433
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,040
to get some social.
Socialization.

434
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,680
In and I don't want to take
kratom, I take some cava I can

435
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:49,040
tell you you know, not to
emphasize on this, but because I

436
00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:52,040
work in the industry at times
I'm at trade shows interacting

437
00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:54,600
with people and I'll take
product with them so sometimes

438
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,360
my consumption goes through the.
Roof with kratom.

439
00:21:57,960 --> 00:21:59,560
And I have to taper.
It back but.

440
00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:02,360
It's I don't skip a beat.
It's as simple as me deciding to

441
00:22:02,360 --> 00:22:04,920
just have two chewable tablets
the next day.

442
00:22:05,880 --> 00:22:08,680
But again, I'm I'm not coming
from a former opiate addict

443
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:11,080
perspective.
I know that for some of my

444
00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,640
friends who were formerly
addicted to heroin, offsetting

445
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,280
the withdrawal from heroin with
kratom just means you pay the.

446
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:21,640
Piper at a later day if you
don't have.

447
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,120
Your kratom.
So since I don't have those

448
00:22:23,120 --> 00:22:27,360
pathways developed in my body,
I've never really had any

449
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,320
significant withdrawal when
tapering off of kratom or even

450
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:34,120
if I take a tolerance break.
But yeah, I first thing I do, I

451
00:22:34,120 --> 00:22:37,160
wake up, I drink some water, I
go to the gym, I work out for

452
00:22:37,160 --> 00:22:39,360
about an hour.
And then once I get into the

453
00:22:39,360 --> 00:22:42,840
office around 10:00, I'd say I.
I take.

454
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:47,040
My first bit of kratom there's.
Products out there that are

455
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:51,560
super strong.
That's not my cup of tea to

456
00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:55,440
speak on the benefits that I get
from it, I feel like.

457
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:57,560
Have you?
Seen the movie Limitless?

458
00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,560
Yes, yeah.
Great, great movie, right?

459
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:06,160
Obviously, nootropic sales in
this country spiked after that

460
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,640
movie because people were like,
it's got to be possible to take

461
00:23:08,640 --> 00:23:10,800
a little pill that.
You know, boost your

462
00:23:10,800 --> 00:23:13,040
productivity.
Obviously, kratom is nowhere

463
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,480
near me turning $100 into
$1,000,000 in the Stock Exchange

464
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:19,360
today.
But I feel like I get some pep

465
00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,120
in my step.
It gives me some positivity, you

466
00:23:22,120 --> 00:23:27,760
know, a little extra energy and
maybe helps to put me into a

467
00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:31,400
state of flow so that when I am
working I can stay focused.

468
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,600
I know for a fact.
That I have ADHDI.

469
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:36,680
Think mine is caused.
Purely.

470
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:39,400
By environment that I have a
smartphone with me, I get my

471
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,880
emails, texts, phone calls and
social media.

472
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:47,280
But with kratom, it helps me
dial it in, stay focused and get

473
00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:51,240
things done.
So when taking those super heavy

474
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:55,280
dosed kratom products, it makes
me more relaxed and sedative.

475
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:00,440
And that's not what I'm looking
for, you know, doesn't make any

476
00:24:00,440 --> 00:24:02,080
sense to.
Go.

477
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:04,880
Hit the gym and get a workout in
if I feel like sleeping on the

478
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,600
couch.
I understand some people need

479
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:10,040
that level of strength with
kratom products in order to feel

480
00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:14,960
OK, but for me medium.
Medium is my sweet spot.

481
00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:20,400
Yeah, so I know there are plenty
of people that do use kratom

482
00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:25,320
recreationally, but they you
hear stories about how they

483
00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:29,160
overuse and they'll sometimes
come into my social media

484
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:33,920
comments and badmouth kratom
because they just used it just

485
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,280
to use it and went crazy with
it.

486
00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:40,840
So like for you being more of a
recreational kratom consumer,

487
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:44,160
what kind of advice would you
give to somebody of like, hey,

488
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:47,960
like this is not something you
just take a whole bunch of

489
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:50,480
because you can run into
problems.

490
00:24:50,480 --> 00:24:53,240
Like do you ever talk to people?
I mean, I know as a kratom

491
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,040
vendor, you can't talk about
certain things, but I mean, just

492
00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,960
in general, how you know, like
what kind of ways can you talk

493
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,800
to or even just give me advice
on how to talk to people about

494
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,400
it?
Because they'll be people.

495
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:09,600
They're just, they're just
casual consumers that just

496
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,160
recreational, but they just
definitely go a little crazy and

497
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,560
then complain about how they had
issues stopping.

498
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,480
Well, I could probably write a
thesis.

499
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,600
On this, I think the vast
majority of us are always trying

500
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:26,720
to run away from any sort of
responsibility that we might

501
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,800
have had to ourselves.
But I can tell you, I think I I

502
00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:33,280
summed this up for a friend of
mine.

503
00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:35,360
He's an alcoholic.
He no longer drinks.

504
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,920
I said.
Listen man when you take kratom

505
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,040
and it feels good.
Do you like that he goes Yeah,

506
00:25:42,440 --> 00:25:45,600
said OK.
Do you consider yourself to be a

507
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,920
spoiled brat?
He goes no.

508
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:54,160
Why?
I said, Well, a spoiled brat is.

509
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,920
Somebody who would expect to
feel good every time they do the

510
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:00,960
same thing, right?
So let's let's talk about a

511
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,240
cupcake.
Does a.

512
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:03,880
Cupcake.
Cupcake taste good?

513
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:06,400
Yeah, it does.
If you eat one every day, does

514
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,400
it taste good?
Maybe not.

515
00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,280
If you eat 5A day every day,
does it taste good?

516
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,160
Maybe not.
So I said I want.

517
00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,800
You the next time you take
kratom, I want you to think

518
00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,960
about how you feel and how it
makes you feel and appreciate

519
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:23,120
that moment.
And also say that I'm not a

520
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,040
spoiled brat and I'm not
necessarily entitled.

521
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,760
To this good.
Recreational buzz that I'm

522
00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,840
getting right now every.
Day OK, I don't get what I want.

523
00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:34,800
In life, every single day I work
for it.

524
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,800
Sometimes that means I I hit and
sometimes that means that I

525
00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,200
miss.
So I guess the best way that

526
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:43,200
I've described it is this.
Talk to yourself.

527
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,120
Ask yourself, are you?
Letting this substance or any

528
00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:48,920
substance take control of your
life.

529
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:50,120
OK.
Who's in?

530
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,320
Who's in the driver's seat?
And ask yourself this question.

531
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:55,400
Am I so spoiled?
That.

532
00:26:55,400 --> 00:27:00,560
Every time I take my 4 ounce of
kratom tea every day that I have

533
00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:04,360
to feel the same way every day
because not a single thing on

534
00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:06,760
this planet.
Operates like that.

535
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:11,160
Not a single thing, not a
television show, not a not a

536
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:14,200
movie that you watch, not a
conversation with your best

537
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,320
friend.
OK, you are meant to have points

538
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,520
where things feel good and they
don't feel good.

539
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:21,880
I'm not saying kratom should
feel bad, but what I'm saying is

540
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:24,520
don't be a spoiled brat and
expect that kratom is going to

541
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,000
feel just as great today as it
will tomorrow and the next day

542
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800
unless you're willing to
implement some tolerance breaks.

543
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:32,800
Taper.
Off your consumption and play

544
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,120
with those levels.
If you.

545
00:27:35,120 --> 00:27:39,440
Start on Monday with one capsule
and by Friday you end at 5:00.

546
00:27:40,840 --> 00:27:44,920
Saturday, take three Sunday.
Take two and Monday take one.

547
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,080
These are just example numbers.
Play with your tolerance.

548
00:27:48,120 --> 00:27:49,280
Ask.
Yourself, how you're doing.

549
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,520
Check in with yourself and don't
have a sense of entitlement

550
00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:55,880
about it and I think my friend
appreciated putting it into that

551
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,640
perspective because he never
really thought about especially

552
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:00,960
in consideration of alcohol, he.
Was.

553
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:03,280
Chasing the dragon.
This.

554
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:06,760
Alcohol makes me feel great.
I deserve to feel great like

555
00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:09,880
this every day.
No one deserves to feel on top

556
00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,040
of the world every single day.
Good only feels good because of

557
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:18,200
a little bit of bad, and bad
only feels good because bad only

558
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,400
feels bad because of good.
You need the contrast.

559
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,000
So stop expecting.
Plants.

560
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,520
Or areas.
Of entertainment or your partner

561
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:30,200
to solve all of your problems
and be perfect every single day

562
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:33,840
because you're setting yourself
up for disaster tolerance breaks

563
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,920
people in cannabis talk about.
This all the time.

564
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:39,880
You know, take a tolerance break
and come back to it at a lower

565
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:41,480
level and you'll appreciate it
more.

566
00:28:42,600 --> 00:28:43,920
I love that.
Well said.

567
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,480
Wow, that was really good.
I had a feeling you'd have a

568
00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,160
good answer for that question.
So now let's talk about how you

569
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,560
got into the kratom industry.
You, you are a kratom company, a

570
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:56,400
vendor.
So how did that all get started?

571
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,920
Yeah, so I.
You know I.

572
00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:03,120
I.
Worked my way through college.

573
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:06,000
I graduated college late I but I
graduated debt free.

574
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,200
I was very proud of that.
I could not get a job.

575
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,840
I ended up getting an unpaid
internship while working at Red

576
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:14,520
Lobster.
Working 70 hours a week at that

577
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:19,480
.30 hours were free, unpaid. 40.
Hours were at the restaurant to

578
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,440
pay my bills and that first job
in the tobacco industry became

579
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:26,480
my first career.
I I worked my way from the

580
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,440
bottom to the top, unpaid intern
to the VP of Sales.

581
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:34,360
It was quite a large company.
And I was very proud of that.

582
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,520
But I was hitting my head on the
ceiling of experience and pay.

583
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,600
I just turned 30 and I realized
that if I stayed another five

584
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,880
years.
I wasn't.

585
00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:44,720
Going to make much more.
I wasn't going to learn much

586
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:48,000
more.
So I took a risk and I left and

587
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:52,320
I went into logistics and I made
the best money of my life as a

588
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,720
freight broker.
I want to make it very clear

589
00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,400
that I'm not personally
passionate about tobacco or

590
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,760
logistics.
I believe that we just.

591
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,400
Like the analogy with kratom?
OK, we lie to ourselves and we

592
00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,400
say that we deserve or.
We are entitled to feeling good

593
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:11,720
everyday.
Which?

594
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,240
Isn't.
Fair because it sets us up for

595
00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:16,120
disappointment.
We do.

596
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,680
The same thing when we think
about our careers, we think that

597
00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,240
somehow we deserve to do
something we're passionate

598
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:23,120
about, and that just makes life
easy.

599
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:24,960
Because.
Every once in a while, you'll

600
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,840
hear an actor or a famous
business person talk.

601
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:29,640
About how they just followed
their passion.

602
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,200
And that made them happy.
Well, that's that's too nicely

603
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,640
summed up, and it's not often
accurate.

604
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:39,040
So while working in.
Logistics making the best money

605
00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:40,640
in my life I was so.
Proud of what I did.

606
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,200
I bumped.
Into somebody at a cava.

607
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,560
Bar that was a business.
Owner and he mentioned that he

608
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:49,120
owned a kratom company and
needed somebody to fill some big

609
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:52,920
shoes.
And I was very dismissive.

610
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:56,760
I was like no, I'm good, I'm
making really good money, yadda

611
00:30:56,760 --> 00:30:59,000
yadda, yadda.
But I considered the lifestyle

612
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:01,160
that I had.
I was working seven days a week.

613
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,560
I was burning myself out.
I was getting woken up at 3 O

614
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,200
clock in the morning, you know,
most nights of the week.

615
00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:09,240
Very stressful, demanding.
Job.

616
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:11,240
And I asked myself this
question.

617
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,240
I said, man, when you were in
the tobacco business, grinding,

618
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,840
traveling three weeks out of the
month and somebody came along

619
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,360
and said, hey, I need you.
I need your skill set for kratom

620
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:24,280
cava business.
Would.

621
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,200
You have jumped ship and I said
I wouldn't bat an eye.

622
00:31:29,280 --> 00:31:30,880
I wouldn't have bat an eye.
I would have hopped.

623
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,480
Out of the tobacco.
Industry in an instant to do

624
00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:36,840
what I'm doing now and I think
that helped me come to the

625
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:40,080
realization that like yo, I can
make this change and and while I

626
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:44,160
just said that passion doesn't
necessarily mean everything is

627
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,400
easy.
I now get to sell products that

628
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,080
I'm passionate about work in an
industry that I'm passionate

629
00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,720
about and do the things that I'm
passionate about, which is

630
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:57,840
personnel development, team
development, making people

631
00:31:57,840 --> 00:32:02,000
better versions of themselves.
So even though I wasn't

632
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,640
passionate about logistics.
Or tobacco I was.

633
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,920
Passionate about doing something
well, getting it done well.

634
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,240
And I found that passion and
that motivated me and propelled

635
00:32:11,240 --> 00:32:13,600
me forward.
And now working in the industry

636
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:17,640
for the last almost three years,
I'm doing the same thing, except

637
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,880
that I deeply care about what we
sell.

638
00:32:19,920 --> 00:32:22,960
I deeply care about the
customers when they choose to

639
00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:25,720
buy our products because as you
mentioned before.

640
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,840
People.
Are stigmatized by picking these

641
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:33,320
products you know if you tell
your aunt that you decided to

642
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,400
start taking kratom and she saw
a news story that wasn't the one

643
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,160
you were interviewed on she
thinks you're taking gas station

644
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,280
heroin.
So you're, you're putting your,

645
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:43,280
you're putting your livelihood
at risk.

646
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,400
Sometimes in a professional
setting, people will judge.

647
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:47,520
You for that as well.
You're challenging.

648
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,800
Your personal relationships by
saying I take kratom and so

649
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:52,960
that's.
Part.

650
00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:55,680
Of the reason why I'm so fired
up about doing this the right

651
00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,320
way, building up an empire,
helping our customers grow, and

652
00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:00,600
making sure that we're ethical
about it.

653
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:03,280
Because I don't.
Want to ever get a notice in the

654
00:33:03,280 --> 00:33:06,640
mail that somebody's life was
damaged by my products?

655
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,840
You know, I really don't.
I I dread that.

656
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:11,760
Yeah.
I want people to buy my stuff.

657
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,280
That's great.
Buy all my kratom.

658
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:15,600
But.
Not at the expense of your

659
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,880
livelihood.
And I know that some

660
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,440
recreational or non recreational
users go overboard with kratom

661
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,960
which is why.
I try to be explicit and tell.

662
00:33:23,960 --> 00:33:25,760
People.
It is habit for me.

663
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:30,080
You know, tread lightly, don't
let something control your life,

664
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,480
even if that hurts my sales at
the end of the day.

665
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:35,840
So hopefully that answers.
Your question I have a tendency

666
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,160
to ramble a little bit.
So no, it was.

667
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:39,760
Perfect.
It was perfect.

668
00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:45,600
And I, I, I love this because
you, you're at a KRAM company

669
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,640
that are doing things right,
that really care about the

670
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,240
customers and not just in it for
the bucks.

671
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,440
It seems like there's too many
in the industry that just only

672
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,160
care about money and not the
people.

673
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,840
And to say like, I, I don't want
anybody to be harmed.

674
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:03,000
I want, you know, people to know
about this product.

675
00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:08,000
And it's amazing because not too
many kratom companies will, will

676
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,400
be so forthcoming with
information like that that

677
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:16,080
benefits the consumers.
And I, I love how you're a big

678
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,719
advocate in this community.
I mean, I, I, before you reached

679
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,800
out to me, I was already seeing
your videos on YouTube and I

680
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:24,280
remember going, well, this guy
is great because he's just like

681
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,600
putting out knowledge bombs
about Kratom because you know,

682
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,199
there, there are people that do
that, like myself and some

683
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:32,639
others that are kratom consumers
that are trying to help educate

684
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:35,600
people.
We don't see too many kratom

685
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,239
because there's, there's a
handful that are doing like what

686
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,000
you're doing, trying to trying
to just help educate people and,

687
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:47,600
and share factual information.
And I I love that you do do

688
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,159
that.
So can you tell us a little bit

689
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:52,639
about like how, what motivated
you to start this YouTube

690
00:34:52,639 --> 00:34:54,840
channel And and you're like
putting videos out like every

691
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:56,480
day, right?
Yeah.

692
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:58,960
Yeah, absolutely.
Every week we film a video.

693
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:02,280
It's funny my my graphic
designer.

694
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,880
He did a a video.
Titled when your Gen.

695
00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:08,640
Z employee edits your videos and
it's just me doing.

696
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:11,600
All the little cut outs of the
videos.

697
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:14,040
You know, where I'm breathing
heavy or something and it's

698
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:17,440
hilarious, but honestly, there's
no teleprompter.

699
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:19,480
I might write down a couple of
notes.

700
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:22,400
I might be responding to
somebody's comment or question

701
00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:24,960
or something that we spitballed
in the office.

702
00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:26,640
Why?
Did we decide to do this because

703
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,080
it does expose us to risk?
Number one, I feel like I hedge

704
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:32,920
my bets.
When I go onto a video and I

705
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:35,800
tell people about kratom, I like
to say something like, hey, I'm

706
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,280
not a doctor.
I sell these products for a

707
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:39,320
living.
Take.

708
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,760
What I say with a grain of salt,
consult with a doctor and for

709
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,000
the love of God if you're on 15
medications.

710
00:35:45,520 --> 00:35:46,960
Don't.
Just go throw and krate them in

711
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:49,040
there because I don't know how
they interact with each other.

712
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:54,160
Ask your doctor, but there is
very little representation.

713
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:57,280
From the company side of things
and it's so easy for regulators

714
00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,000
to say, well.
Since.

715
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,160
They don't speak up and they
don't offer any suggestions to

716
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,680
their consumers, even though
it's in response to the

717
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,680
regulations that exist or the
lack of approval from the FDA.

718
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,160
It's so easy for regulators to
say there's no representation.

719
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,400
These kratom companies are all
evil, all they.

720
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:14,440
Care about is money.
All they care about is hooking

721
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:19,000
and, you know, hooking their
people on their products and

722
00:36:19,120 --> 00:36:22,480
that's extremely harmful, so.
If we are the.

723
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,360
One that is the only one putting
ourselves out there and saying

724
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:28,880
hey here's some info.
We're here.

725
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:31,040
To answer your questions, we're
here to interact with you

726
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:32,560
positively.
We're trying to do the right

727
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:34,400
thing.
We appreciate your support.

728
00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:38,920
Then yeah, it it helps bolster.
Us it helps us to be a voice

729
00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,920
within the.
Community and my goal with the

730
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,880
channel is to get enough
viewership.

731
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,320
Out there that if the Florida.
State decides they want to pass

732
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,840
some cruddy bill that my voice
can be heard and people in the

733
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,640
community can can respond.
So it is a risk.

734
00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:56,480
It's.
Something I enjoy.

735
00:36:56,480 --> 00:36:59,640
I I admire you because at some
point I would like to start.

736
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:02,440
A podcast, but.
Not related to kratom, more

737
00:37:02,440 --> 00:37:07,480
towards like mental mental
well-being and trying to see the

738
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,320
positive side of things even
when you're going through

739
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:11,840
something negative.
So it puts me out there and I'm

740
00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,600
cultivating some skills.
By.

741
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:17,840
Doing it, and so far most of the
comments have been positive.

742
00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:20,920
You know, we've gotten some
really cool feedback.

743
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,360
So far it's not.
Really impacting our business

744
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:25,480
one way or the other.
We don't get enough views but.

745
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,200
It's out there.
We're doing our best and

746
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,600
hopefully that will open some
doors for us in business in the

747
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:33,600
future.
I think it will, you know it

748
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,320
many times with with social
media like that, it, it can take

749
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:41,000
a while for people to discover.
I mean, I've had my YouTube

750
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,200
channel, my crane stories
podcast, YouTube channel for

751
00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:47,160
about a year and a half I think
now and it's it's just slow

752
00:37:47,160 --> 00:37:50,280
going.
But the beauty with with YouTube

753
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:51,920
is a search engine.
And I think a lot of people

754
00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,360
don't realize that like Google's
number one search engine, Google

755
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,120
owns YouTube, so it's the number
2 search engine.

756
00:37:58,240 --> 00:38:01,000
And what's great with you
creating video content about

757
00:38:01,000 --> 00:38:05,240
kratom, I'm doing that all the
time as well, is that people

758
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:09,000
could find one of your videos
five years from now and it could

759
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:13,640
help change their life.
And I love TikTok because TikTok

760
00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:17,720
has been great for us connecting
with fellow kratom consumers and

761
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:20,720
advocates and just helping to
educate people about kratom.

762
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,800
But those videos are so in the
moment.

763
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,600
So they do great short term, but
but there's just no long term

764
00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:30,320
with it.
You know, I if I have a really

765
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,720
helpful video I made like a year
ago, you'd have to scroll so

766
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:37,280
far, you'll never find it.
But with YouTube, you know

767
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,080
you'll easily see hold.
Can pop to the top, yeah.

768
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:42,520
Exactly.
So I've been actually taking

769
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:48,240
some of my TikTok videos and
putting them over on my YouTube

770
00:38:48,240 --> 00:38:52,440
shorts and it's really getting a
lot of attention by doing that.

771
00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:55,480
I've been watching the analytics
on that and it's like, wow, this

772
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,800
is bringing more people to my
YouTube channel.

773
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:02,200
And I think more people are
learning about kratom through

774
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,680
this.
But it's a process because you

775
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:07,760
know when it, I mean, this is my
almost 30 years of digital

776
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:11,040
marketing experience coming out.
But I love that you're just

777
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,440
doing the videos and you're
doing them consistently because

778
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,000
that's the most important thing.
But it takes time for people to

779
00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,360
keep seeing that in their feed
and get to know like and trust

780
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:23,600
you.
And so over time, it will help

781
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:27,160
your business and you'll see an
impact of like, because people

782
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:32,560
are getting to know you, the
person who sells kratom, and you

783
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:35,120
don't see that a lot.
You don't see very many vendors.

784
00:39:35,120 --> 00:39:37,520
I know there's a lot of rules
and what you can and can't say,

785
00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:42,560
but you can still make videos
and and be the main person.

786
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:45,200
So people do get to know, like
and trust you and just help

787
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,040
educate.
And I think you're doing a great

788
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:49,080
job.
I don't see too many companies

789
00:39:49,160 --> 00:39:51,280
doing that the way you are.
And how?

790
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,440
How long have you been doing
that now?

791
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,720
Not not much longer than 3035
days maybe.

792
00:39:58,720 --> 00:40:00,520
I mean, we've, we've.
Scheduled stuff out to the

793
00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:01,160
middle.
Of.

794
00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:05,320
Of April.
So yeah, the consistency is from

795
00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,320
what I've learned, consistency
is key.

796
00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:10,480
Responding to comments is key
when you're starting a channel.

797
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:16,120
So we're we're going to keep
doing this and I think one of my

798
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:20,880
goals is to find all of the most
popular kratom related content

799
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:24,480
and respond to it.
Because if you're.

800
00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:28,240
Your name is Dave and you live
in Kentucky and you've heard of

801
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:31,960
kratom and you don't know where
to start and every.

802
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:37,280
YouTube search shows up with.
Kratom ruined my life.

803
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:40,440
Day 30 of kratom Kratom
withdrawal.

804
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,480
You know videos talking about
how harmful it is.

805
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:45,440
There.
Is no alternative to that.

806
00:40:45,440 --> 00:40:46,800
And then on the flip side, if
you use.

807
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:48,840
Google.
And you look up what is kratom,

808
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,680
you're either going to get a
terrible.

809
00:40:51,000 --> 00:40:52,840
Posting.
From Mayo Clinic, which is

810
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:56,680
horribly uninformed, or some
company shamelessly trying to

811
00:40:56,680 --> 00:41:01,200
sell their products.
Facebook and Instagram don't let

812
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:05,120
us talk about kratom or cava for
that matter and sponsor any ads.

813
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:07,680
Our stuff gets suspended and
taken down.

814
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:10,760
YouTube has been at least a
good.

815
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,640
Outlet for us to speak our.
Minds And also it's kind of nice

816
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,600
because I'm not actually asking
anybody to buy anything, OK.

817
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,240
I literally if somebody's got a
bag of remarkable.

818
00:41:22,240 --> 00:41:24,080
Herbs in front of them and
they're trying to figure out how

819
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,120
to dose and they see my dosing
video and it helps them.

820
00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,840
Cool, Awesome.
Like you said, with time and

821
00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:33,840
familiarity, maybe that creates
some customer conversions, but

822
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,560
I'm trying to help bring the
industry, even if it is

823
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,480
individually, I'm trying to help
bring the industry out of the.

824
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:42,400
Shroud of the Shadows, where
it's been.

825
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,000
For a long time there's You've
heard of Opms, right?

826
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:49,480
Yeah, I mean.
Their name is meant to sound

827
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:52,600
like opium.
They're one of the first

828
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,680
founding forefathers.
Of kratom within the CPG

829
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,400
industry.
By making products that were way

830
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:02,160
too strong and shrouding their
whole business and mystery.

831
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:03,680
You don't know where their
office is.

832
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,680
You don't know who their people.
Are there's a?

833
00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,120
There's a separate.
You know, company that pushes

834
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,680
all the products, but that's
owned by a parent company, so

835
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:13,520
it's.
It's.

836
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:18,320
Kind of difficult to, you know,
look them in the eyes, so to

837
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:19,840
speak.
But I understand why too,

838
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,760
because they're making a lot of
money.

839
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,600
They're making a lot of money
with a product that's not well

840
00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:26,320
accepted by the.
Rest.

841
00:42:26,320 --> 00:42:30,200
Of the community and they are
offering a product that does

842
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,440
help people regardless of
whether or not their products

843
00:42:32,440 --> 00:42:34,840
are strong.
So why would they want to be

844
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,360
forthcoming and tell regulators?
Where they're at?

845
00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:42,560
I don't blame them, but you
know, sharing the space with a

846
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,600
number of other companies to
helping.

847
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:47,800
Helping.
To add some legitimacy to the

848
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,160
whole industry is important.
If they get to see my face and

849
00:42:51,160 --> 00:42:53,680
if they're on the cusp of trying
the bag that's in front of them

850
00:42:53,680 --> 00:42:55,560
for the first time and I make
them feel a little bit more

851
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,360
comfortable and it changes their
life for the better, then I've

852
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:00,680
done a good deed, you know,
very.

853
00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:05,680
Important that these videos are
cautionary but upbeat so that

854
00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,480
people do the.
Right thing, deal with it

855
00:43:08,480 --> 00:43:12,160
responsibly, you know, and it
does have a positive impact

856
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,000
rather than a -1 It's going to
be unavoidable.

857
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:18,200
Somebody is going to take too
much, somebody is going to lack

858
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,840
self-control.
As they do with Frito Lays and

859
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,240
cigarettes and alcohol, somebody
is always going to abuse

860
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,000
whatever is in front of them.
Yeah, absolutely.

861
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,760
I just love that that you're
educating people and that's your

862
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:35,720
primary goal.
And I think that, you know, we

863
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:37,640
need more of that.
So yeah, just keep doing what

864
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,120
you're doing because it's
definitely, you know, because I

865
00:43:40,120 --> 00:43:43,920
I usually check YouTube for just
kratom related videos very

866
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:46,880
regularly and your stuff just
keeps popping up in the feed.

867
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,360
So if people are searching for
Kratom like they're going to see

868
00:43:49,360 --> 00:43:52,760
you and yeah, I think it's super
smart of you now.

869
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:57,520
I love that you're just so big
with advocacy and help sharing

870
00:43:57,720 --> 00:43:59,480
positive information about
kratom.

871
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:02,760
And I know you're in Florida,
lot happening there in the

872
00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:06,360
moment.
But you know, so many times

873
00:44:06,360 --> 00:44:09,680
people will say because, you
know, like you wouldn't spoke at

874
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:12,720
your state capitol in Florida.
And you know, so many people

875
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:15,720
want to get more involved in
advocacy that are kratom

876
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:17,720
consumers, but they don't know
what to do and they're always

877
00:44:17,720 --> 00:44:19,560
asking, what do I do?
How do I do it?

878
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,560
Whereas you're just doing it.
So what kind of advice would you

879
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,160
give to people of how to get
more involved as a kratom

880
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:28,760
consumer to help keep kratom
legal, Especially when these

881
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,520
bands keep popping up and
they're constantly popping up?

882
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:34,800
Right.
So, OK, great question number.

883
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:38,280
One, they don't make it easy.
OK, it's.

884
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,760
Yes, it's simple enough to say
yes, I'm just getting out there

885
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:43,400
and doing it, but my God, you
want to try and sign up to visit

886
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:44,560
the state?
Capital, they don't.

887
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,520
Make it easy.
Their website has a million

888
00:44:46,520 --> 00:44:48,880
buttons.
We don't go to school for this.

889
00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:51,760
They don't let us know how our
political system works, and when

890
00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:55,640
they do, we don't pay attention.
So the.

891
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,080
Biggest.
Thing that you can do if you use

892
00:44:58,080 --> 00:45:00,080
kratom.
OK, is.

893
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,000
To be an upstanding member of
society, contribute and make

894
00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,200
sure that you let people know
that you take kratom and it's a

895
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:06,880
part of a.
Healthy, happy, productive

896
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:08,480
lifestyle.
That's the biggest.

897
00:45:08,480 --> 00:45:11,760
Point of advocacy that you can
do, if you're watching this

898
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:14,640
right now and you're a police
officer, a firefighter, an EMT,

899
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:19,680
and you take kratom, your voice
will matter unequivocally more

900
00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,320
than my voice or Madeleine's
voice or anyone else's voice

901
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,440
because your badge, your state
of authority.

902
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:28,080
Is.
Extremely important and eye

903
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:29,640
opening for people.
Who?

904
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:31,840
Have never heard of it and
assume that it's gas station

905
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:35,160
heroin if you are a.
Doctor, a lawyer or a local

906
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,360
politician.
You as well have a magnified

907
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:40,080
voice.
Because I work in the.

908
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,480
Industry.
My voice is this big, I can do

909
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:44,800
what I want to try and broadcast
it, but.

910
00:45:45,000 --> 00:45:47,280
Those with a rational.
Mind will say, well, he sells it

911
00:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,320
for a living.
Of course anything he says is

912
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:55,040
biased, whether or not it is.
So yeah, listen, if you know

913
00:45:55,040 --> 00:45:58,200
somebody who's involved and
fighting with these advocacy

914
00:45:58,200 --> 00:45:59,760
groups.
Ask.

915
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:03,520
Them how they're doing it.
We've talked about the American

916
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:06,600
Credit Association.
They're not perfect, but they're

917
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:08,440
doing a hell of a job protecting
kratom.

918
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,840
OK, You can find their website
with a quick Google search.

919
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:13,200
You can sign up for the
newsletters.

920
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,280
You can respond to their emails.
They provide you links that you

921
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:19,440
can write emails to the
politicians who propose bills.

922
00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,120
If you're in the business like
we are, sign up for your local

923
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,000
Chamber of Commerce.
It's what I did immediately

924
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,960
after leaving the state capital.
I'm involving myself with the

925
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:31,200
local Chamber of Commerce.
I'm going to be doing

926
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:35,040
sponsorships for local events.
I'm going to be doing meetings

927
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:38,240
with our local politicians
because they need to know we

928
00:46:38,240 --> 00:46:41,600
matter, OK?
That's.

929
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:44,600
What I'm trying to do on my end
from from a consumer perspective

930
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,960
show up.
OK. 5000 people in the Tampa Bay

931
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:51,960
Times produced their article
about kratom being bad. 5000

932
00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:55,160
people signed the petition to
help them take it down and that

933
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:58,200
they were going to show up at
the Tampa Bay Times, myself and

934
00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,520
maybe 15 other people.
Showed up.

935
00:47:01,400 --> 00:47:05,560
OK.
Those articles are harmful and.

936
00:47:06,200 --> 00:47:08,360
You know, if you're really
passionate about this, you want

937
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:11,840
to keep it around, I wouldn't
stop you from being petty A.

938
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,000
Newspaper puts a crappy article
out there.

939
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:15,960
Go leave a.
Go leave a comment on there

940
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,560
about how poor the journalism
was.

941
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,640
OK one thing that I can tell you
about any article talking about

942
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:23,560
a kratom related death.
If they say.

943
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:27,880
Kratom killed that young man, 33
years old, and they don't say

944
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:30,920
that the toxicology report came
back clean with no other

945
00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,640
intoxicants in their system,
which they never do.

946
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,360
Then they probably had other
intoxicants in their system.

947
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,800
And this is just a great way for
that journalistic entity to gain

948
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,480
clicks.
Bad news travels faster than

949
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:46,400
good news.
They're not going to get anybody

950
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,400
to look on their website if it
says kratom is a great plant and

951
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,640
it's helping save people's
lives, right?

952
00:47:52,680 --> 00:47:53,920
So.
Get.

953
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:55,080
Involved.
Get pissed.

954
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,800
Off write.
Those emails to your politicians

955
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,080
show up at town hall.
We need people who can combat

956
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,040
the negative voices.
That are out there.

957
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:07,440
And contribute.
To society positively spread the

958
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:09,440
word if.
Kratom changed your life for the

959
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:11,680
better.
Go tell people about it and let.

960
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:13,240
Them know how it changed your
life for the better.

961
00:48:13,240 --> 00:48:15,640
And maybe they get on board too,
you know?

962
00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:19,000
I love this all that was so well
said.

963
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:23,080
And that's what I started doing.
You know, I, I, when I started

964
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,960
kratom six years ago as a
consumer, I wasn't very

965
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,280
comfortable talking about it
with other people because it

966
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,560
just seems so stigmatized, just
like when I was in pain

967
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,680
management for nine years taking
high-powered opioids.

968
00:48:33,680 --> 00:48:36,120
I didn't go around telling
people, you know, oh, by the

969
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,760
way, let me hold on.
I gotta go pop this Oxycontin

970
00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:44,360
pill so I don't suffer in pain.
It's just people have this

971
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:46,960
thought of what they hear that
word Oxycontin, and they like

972
00:48:47,240 --> 00:48:51,160
they already think the worst of
that because of the history of

973
00:48:51,160 --> 00:48:53,080
it and what the media has shown
us.

974
00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,720
But it was actually one of the
best medications I ever had

975
00:48:56,960 --> 00:49:01,800
during my chronic pain time in
pain management Kratom.

976
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,440
So I'm not going to ever knock
it or, or be negative about it,

977
00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:07,640
but I was never comfortable
talking about it.

978
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:10,280
So when I switched to kratom
those first few years, I, I

979
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,200
didn't even mention it to
doctors at first, But every time

980
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,960
I got more comfortable and
wanted to be more of an

981
00:49:15,960 --> 00:49:18,280
advocate.
And I just, I just started

982
00:49:18,680 --> 00:49:22,400
telling anybody and everybody.
And it's, it's interesting

983
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,280
because of course some people
are just always going to be

984
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,320
negative because all they hear
is negative stuff, especially in

985
00:49:27,320 --> 00:49:29,240
the media and that Tampa Bay
Times.

986
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:32,240
Oh, that was a terrible
reporting.

987
00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:34,680
Terrible reporting.
We've talked about it plenty on

988
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,400
our kratom gals live streams.
We've had plenty of them

989
00:49:37,400 --> 00:49:40,280
talking.
Oh yeah, because it was just so

990
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,320
poorly.
Poor journalism for sure.

991
00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:46,280
But they just dispute everything
dramatically.

992
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,600
The AKA said said to us that
apparently.

993
00:49:50,600 --> 00:49:54,200
There was a law firm that
sponsored that article and I

994
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,840
think it might be a law firm
that goes after the the kratom

995
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:58,680
related deaths they.
Do and.

996
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,680
You know one thing I wanted to
say this.

997
00:50:01,680 --> 00:50:04,960
So badly at the state Capitol.
To one of the ladies who'd.

998
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:08,360
Lost her son.
And and not to make light of it,

999
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:13,720
but whose son or daughter calls
their mom and says, hey, I'm a

1000
00:50:13,720 --> 00:50:18,120
heroin addict, OK, not many.
Usually that parent, if they're

1001
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,400
highly involved in their parent
in their child's life, will find

1002
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,240
out as a consequence of bad
behavior.

1003
00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:25,800
Getting into trouble.
But some kids are really, really

1004
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,640
good at hiding drug use from
their parents.

1005
00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:31,240
So then when kratom comes around
and they decide they want to get

1006
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:34,880
sober, they are buying a legal
product.

1007
00:50:35,120 --> 00:50:36,560
Which?
They don't have a problem

1008
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:39,400
showing to their parents, so
when their parents says hey,

1009
00:50:39,400 --> 00:50:40,840
what's that?
Little bottle on your.

1010
00:50:40,840 --> 00:50:43,000
Desk Oh that's kratom.
It's really good.

1011
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:45,520
It helps me with my anxiety.
What it's?

1012
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:47,240
Really helping them do is get
over their.

1013
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:49,200
Their.
Heroin withdrawal or their

1014
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,920
fentanyl withdrawal, right?
And so when they go back to

1015
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:55,200
their dealer and they purchased
their normal hit from their

1016
00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:56,840
dealer.
Because.

1017
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:58,360
Their tolerance has been
decreased.

1018
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:01,240
It's a lethal.
Dose and then they drop dead and

1019
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:04,800
the only new variable in the
parent's life to their knowledge

1020
00:51:05,120 --> 00:51:08,320
is kratom.
OK, so their son who they might

1021
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,920
not have been a part of.
Their life very close to them.

1022
00:51:11,320 --> 00:51:13,040
Comes back into their life with
kratom.

1023
00:51:13,040 --> 00:51:16,400
Kratom's the new variable.
The sun can't stay strong,

1024
00:51:16,520 --> 00:51:20,360
breaks down, buys their normal
hit, overdoses and dies.

1025
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:22,040
The parent says it must have
been the kratom.

1026
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:25,120
And of course, if they find
kratom in that person's system,

1027
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:27,960
well, you know, cause and
effect.

1028
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,440
And it's really, really
unfortunate, you know?

1029
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:34,960
I've.
Known too many people in my life

1030
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:40,520
that have died from drugs,
prescription or alcohol and I

1031
00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:44,720
don't know anybody that's died
from kratom and I know a lot of

1032
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:45,720
people who take.
Kratom.

1033
00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,960
You know, Yeah, Well,
responsible use of kratom is not

1034
00:51:49,960 --> 00:51:55,280
harmful.
And I been in the same room with

1035
00:51:55,280 --> 00:51:58,160
some of the leading kratom
experts talking about their

1036
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:02,720
findings, which is is is not
something that you die from by

1037
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:06,760
just consuming it by itself.
Like, you know, if somebody has

1038
00:52:06,760 --> 00:52:10,400
kratom in their system, they
most likely had so many other

1039
00:52:11,080 --> 00:52:14,560
drugs in their system, usually
narcotics that that are harmful.

1040
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:18,720
But it's just it's one of the
reasons why I advocate so hard.

1041
00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:20,120
And it sounds like same with
you.

1042
00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:22,640
It's like we're just trying to
make sure people are educated

1043
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,960
and understand and get all the
facts.

1044
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,280
Like the news story, I was on my
NBC News story when they they

1045
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:31,440
showed the grieving mom and
talked about how her son died.

1046
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:36,640
You know, they mentioned that he
had some doctor prescribed

1047
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,280
medications in the system, but
they didn't show the tox report

1048
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:43,560
that showed the tons of
different medications were in

1049
00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:47,240
the system and some of them will
illicit.

1050
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:51,360
So it's in medical issues as
well.

1051
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:55,080
So right, we're just trying to
always help paint a fuller

1052
00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:57,960
picture of the truth and and
educate people.

1053
00:52:57,960 --> 00:52:59,320
And I think that's just so
important.

1054
00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,880
We need we need more of that.
So I just love that you're

1055
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,600
you're big on doing this as well
in the industry.

1056
00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:05,960
Thank you.
Yeah.

1057
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:08,760
I mean.
It's it sucks.

1058
00:53:08,760 --> 00:53:11,520
Loss of life is, is huge, right?
It's hard to make.

1059
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:13,560
An argument in the face of
someone who just lost a loved

1060
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:16,400
one in Florida.
There was a lady who passed.

1061
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,240
Away over on the East Coast of
Florida.

1062
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:21,360
Apparently she took some kratom
and I think two weeks after she

1063
00:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,720
passed there was another woman
who passed away in the East

1064
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:27,000
Coast of Florida.
She went to Florida on vacation

1065
00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,800
with her family, went to the
beach, was out in the sun and

1066
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:33,960
chugged 2 bottles of water in
rapid succession and passed

1067
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:36,400
away.
So.

1068
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:40,920
If water can kill you, where are
the advocacy groups asking for

1069
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,720
regulation that puts a warning
label on a bottle of water

1070
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:47,360
saying don't drink more than two
of these in an X number of

1071
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,400
window of time?
It all comes down to this

1072
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:54,520
litigious society that we live
in that people are so quick to

1073
00:53:54,520 --> 00:53:57,640
try and monetize tragedy and
sue.

1074
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,760
Some industries are too large to
come down from lawsuits and

1075
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:05,160
other industries like ours are a
lot more vulnerable.

1076
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,040
So one thing that you know, when
I talked to you earlier, I

1077
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:10,280
mentioned I'm happy to share
the.

1078
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,040
Space with other.
People in the industry who do

1079
00:54:12,040 --> 00:54:13,760
the right thing.
There's some competitors out

1080
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:16,000
there that are wonderful,
marvelous.

1081
00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,360
Their team is excellent.
They do good things in the

1082
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,400
industry.
I would love to be able to kick

1083
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,760
out.
All The Dirty players that are

1084
00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:27,000
in the industry, you know, and
it's it's hard to do the at the

1085
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:28,880
end of the day, there's
different mechanics in the

1086
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:31,680
business that people are
interested in certain attributes

1087
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:34,920
when it comes to kratom.
They want cheap, they want to

1088
00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:36,680
make a lot of money.
They don't care if it's good.

1089
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:40,120
They don't take it themselves.
And so with that in mind, you

1090
00:54:40,120 --> 00:54:42,040
see a.
Whole slew of.

1091
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:45,400
Substandard kratom products
making it into the market and in

1092
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,640
front of consumers who don't
know any better.

1093
00:54:50,080 --> 00:54:53,120
You know, maybe money is tight,
maybe it is important to have a

1094
00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:54,840
value brand out there for
kratom.

1095
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,840
Somebody can buy something for
$2.00 instead of 12.

1096
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:01,280
But.
I would argue that, you know,

1097
00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:04,720
kratom is supposed to cost
money.

1098
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:07,640
And you're supposed to have to
pay a reasonable price for a

1099
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,720
reasonable product.
It's not meant to be dirt cheap.

1100
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:12,000
And if it is dirt cheap?
You should be a little bit

1101
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:13,760
worried about the quality of it
and the.

1102
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:17,240
Team behind the product there's
people who work in the industry

1103
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,600
who don't take kratom and don't
care about whether or not they

1104
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:22,520
help people.
They just want to make money

1105
00:55:22,960 --> 00:55:24,600
all.
Of and I'm.

1106
00:55:24,600 --> 00:55:28,120
Not here to brag, but with these
new tariffs and stuff, we might

1107
00:55:28,120 --> 00:55:29,800
have to reconsider some of our
vendors.

1108
00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:31,960
But as of right now, all of our
machinery and all of our

1109
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,640
packaging is made in the US, you
know, but we're seeing cost

1110
00:55:35,640 --> 00:55:38,480
increases that are even
transcending just what happens

1111
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,480
when you import products into
the United States.

1112
00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,480
The companies, even the
companies we work with that are

1113
00:55:43,520 --> 00:55:46,800
US based, they've got increased
costs on their raw materials,

1114
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,680
so.
But we could.

1115
00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:52,840
Have gone the route of any other
competitor and gotten Chinese

1116
00:55:52,840 --> 00:55:55,640
packaging from the start and
Chinese material and maybe

1117
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,360
employed people at our warehouse
that were undocumented laborers

1118
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:04,200
but proudly we are more US based
than just about any other

1119
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,360
company you purchase from except
for the kratom comes from

1120
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:09,240
Indonesia.
You know, that's kind of

1121
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:13,960
unavoidable as of right now, so
would be nice if we.

1122
00:56:13,960 --> 00:56:17,120
Could get a couple 1000.
Acres of land in Florida and

1123
00:56:17,120 --> 00:56:20,000
find a way to grow it.
Here, that'd be great, but.

1124
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:23,640
We're we're nowhere near being
able to do that, you know?

1125
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:27,480
Yeah, it'd be nice when there
when there's that ability to do

1126
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:29,560
it.
Abram, this been such a great

1127
00:56:29,560 --> 00:56:31,200
conversation.
I'll definitely have to bring

1128
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,120
you on for another discussion
sometime soon because I just

1129
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:37,000
feel like there's just so much
more we can talk about.

1130
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:39,080
But let's wrap up with with
this.

1131
00:56:39,080 --> 00:56:41,400
So knowing everything you know
now about kratom and you know, a

1132
00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:44,920
lot, you you, you know, got
turned on to it 10 years ago.

1133
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,080
You've been in the industry
working in IT for the last three

1134
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:49,640
years.
What advice would you give to

1135
00:56:49,640 --> 00:56:53,080
someone to help them get started
in their kratom journey?

1136
00:56:55,000 --> 00:56:57,200
Great.
Go slow.

1137
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,040
Do not.
Rush into it, OK?

1138
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:03,280
Don't be impatient.
Don't expect that the first time

1139
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,480
you try kratom, you're going to
get this magical experience.

1140
00:57:05,480 --> 00:57:08,360
Be prepared to.
Start slow over the course of

1141
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:12,240
several days.
OK, start.

1142
00:57:12,240 --> 00:57:16,680
With the raw plant matter
capsules or powder, OK and start

1143
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,360
with a very low dose and see how
you feel and really ask yourself

1144
00:57:19,360 --> 00:57:21,120
if you can tap into that and
figure.

1145
00:57:21,120 --> 00:57:24,160
Out how this is making you feel.
I think it'll be a much better

1146
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:27,840
way for somebody to start than
to jumping in with both feet.

1147
00:57:28,000 --> 00:57:31,840
There's a lot of people who
bring their ego to the table

1148
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:33,480
when trying a product for the
first time.

1149
00:57:33,480 --> 00:57:34,880
Could be liquor, could be
whatever.

1150
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:37,320
And they're like, oh, I'm, I'm a
big strong man.

1151
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:38,760
I could take.
I could take a ton of.

1152
00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,160
This and not even feel it.
Don't do that.

1153
00:57:41,680 --> 00:57:43,680
All right.
If you want to get started.

1154
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:45,280
Do your research.
Online.

1155
00:57:45,400 --> 00:57:46,920
Talk to some people you might
know.

1156
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:49,120
Go to a local Kava bar if there
is one.

1157
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:52,160
Ask some questions.
Ask.

1158
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:54,440
Yourself what you want.
Kratom to do for you.

1159
00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:58,160
OK.
And then start slow.

1160
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,080
Yeah, Well said.
This has been great.

1161
00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:03,240
Abram, thank you so much for
coming on the podcast today.

1162
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,480
Thank you.
So much it was.

1163
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,280
It was awesome.
I appreciate you.