Ep 69: From Meth to Freedom: How Bunny Used Kratom to Reclaim Her Life

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We should be able to talk about
our issues freely because it

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helps others along their path
with the same issues.

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And when it's it's not, you
know, it doesn't like create a

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bond between you because Oh
well, we have the same problem.

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No, it you're a lighthouse, you
become a lighthouse at that

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point when you can overcome
something like that, you should

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be talking about it.
You should be sharing your

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experiences and with kratom.
I love talking about that

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experience because every time
meth comes up in my slab city

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talks in my Patreon in anything,
I always wrap it up with, if you

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are struggling with this, please
reach out because there are

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things that can help you that I
can't talk about freely on this

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app.
And sometimes I'll spell it out

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KRATOM or I'll say it rhymes
with Schmadam and starts with

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AK.
You know you have to use the

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code words on TikTok, but I
absolutely advocate for it even

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though I'm not using it anymore.
So I'm here with Bunny, somebody

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I've met online.
She's got a very cool thing

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going called Budget Van Life.
It's just a lot of coolness

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coming from this lady.
Looking forward to hearing more.

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Thank you for first of all,
thank you for reaching out to me

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and for coming on the podcast
because your story, the little

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bit you've told me, Bunny sounds
amazing.

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I can't wait.
Well.

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Thanks for having me, I'm
excited to be here.

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Absolutely.
So why don't you start off

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telling us a little bit about
yourself and life before kratom?

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Well, I, I've had a lot of
trauma just just to keep it

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simple and basic.
There was a lot of childhood

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stuff.
And then as I grew up, I just

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kind of ran into it again and
again and probably made some bad

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decisions in my life.
And because of that, you know,

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drugs became a, a very easy
thing to, to come across and

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like to get into.
But I, I was always afraid of

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them.
So I never really wanted to.

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I just, I just kind of went
along with my friends because it

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it was something where I was
trying to get accepted, I

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suppose.
I didn't really have a lot of

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pain or anything like that.
I was just kind of a free spirit

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most of the time.
I, I have a college education, I

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have a son.
I never was married.

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And that's pretty much where my
life went before Kratom.

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I started van life and that's
when actually the, the worst

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drugs probably entered my life.
And I think it, I was like 4 or

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five years into van life and I,
I wasn't in a van.

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I was in a car and I was
hitchhiking.

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If I wasn't in a car, I was
hitchhiking.

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And sometimes you just get the
wrong ride.

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And I got the wrong ride.
And that's that's how it

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started.
I was stuck in this like tiny

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little truck cab with two other
people who I had waited three

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days trying to hitchhike out of
this place in Southern

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California.
And when they picked me up, they

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turned back to me and they said,
do you party?

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If anyone ever asked you that,
don't.

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Don't say yes.
I was very naive and I didn't

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know what that meant.
And I thought it was like, you

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know, listen to music and maybe
drink some, kick back some

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alcohol.
OK cool, maybe even smoke some

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weed fine but I don't know what
I can say on here so.

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Say whatever, say whatever.
You like So at that point I

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tried it and it was math and I,
I didn't realize what it was I

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had, I had smoked it wrong.
I spilled it.

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They were very upset with me.
I was scared.

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And so I sat with these people
in this truck in this ride for

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about two hours while they got
high and it got me high and it

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was totally against my will.
When I realized what it was, I

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kind of freaked out.
I was up for three days.

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I called everyone in my phone
book and played every song in my

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ukulele book.
Look what I can do.

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Oh my God.
And I felt like superwoman and I

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didn't couldn't sleep.
It wasn't really a comfortable

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feeling for me.
But then later on, I was in Slab

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City and it was fed to me
against my will again.

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And I knew what the taste of it
from being around it and putting

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my lips on that, the way they
did it in the in the truck.

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So that's where it came to me.
And I tasted it again to my food

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at a free feed in Slab City and
was like, I know what's going to

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happen now.
I know, I know how bad this is.

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And again, I was out for a few
days.

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But in Slab City it's very
affordable because you know,

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they make it right there and
it's it's you can get it free.

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I mean, it was fed to me for
goodness sake.

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So at that point I had already
had a taste and I knew what,

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what my what it would do to me
and it was over it it was

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signed, sealed delivery.
It was over.

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So I got my hands on it again,
seeking it out this time and

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that it was it third time's the
charm, right?

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So I was on it for I'm just
going to go into the whole

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story.
I hope that's OK.

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I was on it for about 3 years.
I would leave Slab City and like

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keep a very little, you know,
small amount of stash on me and

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travel with it, even in my
vehicles.

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I was always very regulated and
careful with it.

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I never put it in my veins.
I never but I knew I was

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addicted.
And after three years, I

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realized I was in Slab City.
I realized there was a point

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where I looked around and I was
like this, this is my life now

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and it's probably going to be
like this for the rest of my

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life because I can't get off
this stuff.

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It's I can't, the amount of pain
that it caused me to get off of

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it was immeasurable.
So much pain, so, so much pain.

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Everything ached, everything
hurt.

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Walking was like crippling.
And so it was, it was just a

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keep yourself healthy kind of
thing.

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It wasn't even like a high
anymore.

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And you know, the things that
they put in meth are .3 brake

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fluid and all kinds of horrible,
horrible chemicals that should

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never, ever be in your body.
And it would come out of me in

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weird places.
I would get boils and like,

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crystals would come out of it
was insane.

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I had Morgellons.
I was delusional.

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I thought I could talk to the
elk.

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True story.
Yeah, it it was pretty insane.

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And I realized like, this is my
life now.

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But there was still like some
grain of sanity in there because

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at one point I brought myself to
an ER because of the Morgellons.

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Morgellons.
If you don't know what that is,

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it's like a, a feeling of bugs
all over you, but it's, it's all

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hallucinating.
So I went to the ER and I

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thought I was like infested.
And I had tried diatomaceous

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earth.
I had tried a bug bomb in my

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vehicle.
I thought it was fleas.

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I didn't know what it was.
And when I showed up, you know,

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they kind of, you could tell
they were kind of laughing under

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their breath.
They were like, yeah, OK, she's,

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she's on something.
But I told them I needed to be

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quarantined.
I'm covered in diatomaceous

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earth and I, I look foolish, I'm
sure.

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And they were just like, we know
what this is.

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So they kept me in a room for
about four hours.

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And they asked, you know, they
did a whole search on my head

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for bugs and everything.
And then they said to me, like,

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after four hours, we didn't find
any bugs.

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Like, how do you feel now?
And I'm like, actually, I feel

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OK.
And they're like, OK, so what's

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your drug use like?
And I was like, I never shoot

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up.
I never shoot up.

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And they were like, OK, so it
seems like you have a good head

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on your shoulders.
And if they had never said that

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to me, it would have never
planted the seed.

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But they were like, at some
point you're going to have to

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make a decision because this
drug is taking you down a road

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that's that's probably going to
be too far for you.

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And I was just like, wait, you
think I still have a chance?

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And they were like, yes, you,
you have a good head on your

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shoulders.
Like you, you're not an

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unintelligent person.
Like you can do this if you want

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to.
If it's not the right time, it's

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not the right time.
But when you're ready, you

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should, you should think about
it.

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And I was like, you know, it was
like mind blowing to me at that

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point.
I was like, oh, so I started,

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you know, the universe kind of
puts things in your lap at that

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point when you're open to it.
And a friend had said, you know,

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if you ever want to quit, you
can try kratom.

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Kratom really helps people.
And I was like, what's this?

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What is this?
So I did a little bit of

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research and I found out about
the different colors and veins

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and, and how they interact with
your body and like what's good

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for what.
And I said, OK, I'm going to go

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get some.
I'm going to try a little bit of

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each.
And I weaned off of my meth

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stash very slowly because I knew
that I was going to use kratom

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as a tool.
I also knew it was addictive to

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some people, that people were
using it as a drug too.

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So I was like, all right, I want
to get off of this.

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I'm not going to trade it in for
something else.

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I'm going to use this as a tool.
And it wasn't long after that,

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that hospital visit that I
decided I was going to, you

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know, I ran out of my stash.
Then I went into the store.

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This, it was literally the same
day I ran out of my stash.

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I'm driving and this huge flag
says kratom.

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And it's like, oh.
So of course I turned in and I

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asked the woman about it.
And she was like, you know, this

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is she told me a little bit more
about it and I tried a little

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bit of each and the white was
very much like meth.

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It was very much like that.
It had me, you know, it fixed my

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ADD.
It had me hyper focused, but it

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also gave me a little bit of
like I was temperamental, very

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irritable and almost ragey,
which is very similar to what

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meth does to you.
But I was non-stop and awake.

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It didn't really do much for
pain.

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So when I tried the red that
made me sleep, it did everything

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for the pain, but it made me
sleep and I was like, no, I

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still have to function like I
need to live.

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And so the green was what really
worked for me.

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It was, it was the the
Goldilocks.

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It took the pain away and it it
gave me enough focus to get

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through.
And so I just started taking 11

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dose in the morning.
That was a pretty decent dose.

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I took it with like a smoothie
and orange juice and then

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halfway through the day I would
take another dose and so I did

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that for about 6 months.
Wow, was this the powder or

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extracts?
It was the powder.

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I stuck with just the TV.
I think that's all that was

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available then.
Like I didn't even know the

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extracts existed anymore right
at that point.

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I didn't even know they existed
now until a couple weeks ago.

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So.
Yeah, extracts are, well, it

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seems like powder and extracts
are really popular in smoke

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shops.
And now 708 is cropping up

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everywhere, right?
And they're all different.

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But that is so interesting to
hear that you were able to get

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off of meth with with kratom
powder.

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Usually when I hear people talk
about using kratom as a tool to

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get off of drugs, it is almost
always extracts at people And

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and you got to be careful with
extracts because they're so

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strong.
And then many times people go

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too far with that and and have
issues because they're still

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having that same, you know,
thing We're like overuse, take

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too much, you know, I feel good,
but powder we don't, you know,

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that's not abused as much,
right, Because how much powder

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can you try to down, you know,
before getting sick?

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I mean, when I first bought
stuff, I, you know, my, my

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question to the woman at the
cashier was like, what do you

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take as a dose?
Like, have you tried this stuff?

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And she was like, oh, yeah, I
tried it.

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And I was like, well, what, what
was it like for you?

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And she was like, well, I was up
for days and I was like, oh, OK,

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00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:24,480
well that sounds just like what
I need, but how about pain?

222
00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:26,920
So she, you know, I already knew
a little bit about each of the

223
00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:29,520
colors, and she said, why don't
you try a little bit of each,

224
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,800
but just a little bit.
And I think also hearing her

225
00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,880
overwhelm with it was enough to
like, I've always been, you

226
00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:39,920
know, somebody was a little bit
afraid of drugs.

227
00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:42,960
So even though this was a plant
substance, I was like still

228
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:47,040
wanting to be careful.
And hearing her say her

229
00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:49,960
overwhelm with it definitely put
me on a path of like, OK, this

230
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:51,920
needs to be something I'm
careful with.

231
00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:54,960
But I had not heard of the
extracts at that point.

232
00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:57,280
And powder was all you could get
that was available.

233
00:11:57,560 --> 00:12:01,520
But she had also mentioned that
some people, you know, take too

234
00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:04,120
much and like, they, they can't
handle it and they freak out.

235
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,000
And I was like that.
That's not what I want to do.

236
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:10,400
Well, it's interesting that
like, you tried the white, you

237
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:14,520
tried the red, you tried the
green, which is what I did to

238
00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:18,200
figure out what worked best.
And very quickly, the white made

239
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,320
me too jittery.
I didn't like how it made me

240
00:12:20,320 --> 00:12:21,840
feel.
And a lot of people will say

241
00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:23,120
that too.
And then the red.

242
00:12:23,280 --> 00:12:25,280
Red did nothing for me, didn't
even make me sleepy.

243
00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:27,640
People say, oh, it helps with
pain, relaxation.

244
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,640
It did absolutely nothing for
me, but the greens worked great.

245
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:34,840
So I've been consuming green
powder whole leaf kratom every

246
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,360
day for.
I just had my six year

247
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:40,240
anniversary several weeks ago
and it's it's been amazing for

248
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,840
my chronic pain works way better
than all the pain meds.

249
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:47,000
It's it's so amazing that a
plant can help with something

250
00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:50,880
like this, but then also with
your story and how this powder

251
00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:52,880
has helped you.
That's just amazing.

252
00:12:52,880 --> 00:12:56,960
Let me ask you a question
because many times people like

253
00:12:56,960 --> 00:13:00,480
over on TikTok social media, the
one of the biggest struggles I

254
00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:02,920
see people talk about is trying
to get off a Suboxone.

255
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,120
I don't really see meth as much.
I'll see them talk about

256
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:09,960
Suboxone and how to transition.
I imagine it's probably similar

257
00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,160
with what you went through.
Like did you have to like taper

258
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,560
completely to get to the point
where you like stop completely

259
00:13:15,560 --> 00:13:18,920
and then did kratom or were you
kind of do like how it?

260
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:24,280
At the same time, I definitely
knew what I wanted to do and I

261
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,120
definitely took my time.
I had a stash.

262
00:13:27,480 --> 00:13:29,920
I left Slab City.
There was some trauma and Slab

263
00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:32,680
City I was essayed and that was
like also the other thing that

264
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:35,960
was like, OK, it's time to go.
This needs to stop.

265
00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:38,920
Like my life has to change.
But I still had a stash when I

266
00:13:38,920 --> 00:13:42,280
left and it lasted me quite a
while because I used so little

267
00:13:42,920 --> 00:13:46,280
and it was so cheap that you
could have an amount that

268
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,520
whatever it, it was just very
easy to keep it for a long time

269
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:54,480
because I didn't use like crazy.
But I was definitely addicted

270
00:13:54,520 --> 00:14:00,600
and I knew that I I wanted to
stop.

271
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:04,400
So I figured I would wait until
my stash ran out and then deal

272
00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:06,440
with the kratom.
Then I didn't want to mix the

273
00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:07,840
two.
I that freak.

274
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,200
I've seen things at festivals
when people mix things.

275
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,560
No, thank you.
I think the fear was really kept

276
00:14:13,560 --> 00:14:17,480
what kept me safe, But then the
knowledge of wisdom and of of

277
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,760
kratom and learning about that
and other people mentioning it

278
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,360
to me was like, oh, this is
something that can work.

279
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,440
So I'm I'm very grateful for it.
It saved my life.

280
00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:30,720
It absolutely saved my life.
That's amazing.

281
00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:33,480
So when you know you discover
kratom, you're using it.

282
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:35,640
So like, was that it with a
math?

283
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,760
Like you never went back to it
again, never look.

284
00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:40,240
How did that work?
Never went back once I realized

285
00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,160
I had something else that could,
I wanted to go back to my life

286
00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:48,560
before meth, like because meth
had never been an intention for

287
00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:50,520
me.
I I never wanted to do it.

288
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:53,960
It's just when I had when it
was, you know, forced upon me, I

289
00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:57,640
was like, oh, wow, this is a
mate, you know, and I don't, I

290
00:14:57,640 --> 00:14:59,520
don't want to like tout it to
anyone.

291
00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:02,520
I don't want to like get anyone
excited about using it.

292
00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,000
That's not why I'm here.
But it's so addictive.

293
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,160
It is so addictive.
And when you try those kind of

294
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:15,360
substances, you, you lose.
How did I explain it to my son?

295
00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,000
He first started, you know,
smoking weed.

296
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,160
And I was like, hey, it's legal,
OK?

297
00:15:21,200 --> 00:15:22,480
You could do what you want.
I don't care.

298
00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:23,960
I don't even see that as a drug
anymore.

299
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,040
But just remember, when you
start doing things on that

300
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:32,280
substance, once you go back to
doing that activity without that

301
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:34,720
substance, it's not going to be
the same.

302
00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,760
So don't overdo it.
And he was like, oh, oh, that

303
00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:38,640
makes sense.
OK.

304
00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:40,480
And for me, it was the same
thing with meth.

305
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,520
Once I started doing activities
like I can't play music without

306
00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,360
as much joy anymore because I
used to play uke, I learned to

307
00:15:48,360 --> 00:15:50,920
play guitar while I was on meth
and I was, I was a God.

308
00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:53,320
It was amazing.
I was, I just knew what I was

309
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:54,360
doing.
It was amazing.

310
00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:59,480
But now that I don't have that
substance, I can't play as well

311
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,200
and I can't play for as long.
So I lost that joy from it.

312
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,800
And that's, that's a long term
thing that that sticks around

313
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:09,960
you.
You have to take that as it

314
00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:11,880
comes.
But I found joy in other things.

315
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:15,040
But I wanted to go back to my
life before math.

316
00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,120
I, there was joy in my life
before math and I wanted to go

317
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,120
back to that.
So it, it was always about

318
00:16:21,120 --> 00:16:23,520
getting off of it completely.
So I never went back.

319
00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:24,960
Once I was off, I never went
back.

320
00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:27,600
That's amazing.
That's Congrats to you.

321
00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,240
That is so awesome to hear.
I love hearing that.

322
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:35,200
So when you were in this
transition period, did did the

323
00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,400
Kratom just like make it so that
like you just, I mean, were you

324
00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,600
craving?
Like, I don't understand.

325
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:44,480
I mean, yeah, I just come.
I was in a lot.

326
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,360
I was in depolation like like
you have physical pain.

327
00:16:47,640 --> 00:16:49,960
Yeah.
But what about like, the

328
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,480
craving?
Even weaning off of meth, like

329
00:16:52,480 --> 00:16:56,960
it just your body is so if you
can't make the serotonin and the

330
00:16:56,960 --> 00:17:00,960
norepinephrine and the dopamine
without a substance, your body

331
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,000
is like, wait, I forget how to
make this now.

332
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,880
What miserable, miserable,
absolute so much pain.

333
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:10,920
I mean, for six months on the
kratom, I was still feeling

334
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:12,960
pain.
It was a whole year off of meth

335
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,920
and on kratom that I was still
feeling pain.

336
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,760
It wasn't until like the second
year that I was off of meth

337
00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:23,640
completely that I started to
feel a little bit better without

338
00:17:23,640 --> 00:17:26,920
kratom.
I, I took it for six months,

339
00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,080
those two doses a day and then
I, I weaned down to 1 dose a day

340
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,040
in the morning.
Sometimes I would, I would

341
00:17:33,040 --> 00:17:36,160
sweat, I would do a couple doses
if I needed it for something

342
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,000
like if I knew it was going to
be a rough day, if I had to work

343
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000
an extra shift, if I was doing
something that was going to be

344
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,200
labor intensive, then I would, I
would definitely still take a

345
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:48,520
second dose of kratom.
But I gave myself a year.

346
00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,560
I gave myself a year knowing
that like if you can do this in

347
00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:55,360
a year, then you can be OK and
it'll take you that long, but

348
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:57,520
you can do this.
So I had a plan.

349
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,480
That is so great.
I I just think that's just

350
00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,000
awesome to hear and I'm sure
this is inspiring others that

351
00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,400
are listening to your journey
with this.

352
00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:11,440
So tell us more about how this
impacted your your daily life

353
00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:13,800
and overall well-being from this
plant.

354
00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,360
Well, first, the getting off the
math was just so painful that I

355
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:20,880
I couldn't, I couldn't even
drive.

356
00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:24,280
Like I couldn't walk.
I'm a person who hikes pretty

357
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:25,800
much every other day with my
dog.

358
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,240
I had a dog.
I was, I, you know, I was trying

359
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,760
to live my life.
I was traveling, I was a nomad

360
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,360
at this point and living out of
my vehicles.

361
00:18:34,360 --> 00:18:40,680
And that takes a definite
certain level of you have to

362
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,440
have some kind of like go get
them in your life.

363
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:46,120
If you're going to do van life
or living out of a vehicle,

364
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,160
There's just a, you can't just
sit back and and forget

365
00:18:49,160 --> 00:18:50,480
everything that's going on
around you.

366
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,200
You have to make sure that
you're aware.

367
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:54,800
You have to make sure you have
to find a place to sleep.

368
00:18:54,800 --> 00:18:56,720
Where are the resources?
Where is the gas?

369
00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,400
Where are the cops?
What are the rules?

370
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:01,440
It's a, it's a constant
awareness.

371
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:03,840
And you know, I've been doing
this for like 12 years now.

372
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,200
So it's not that big of a deal
now.

373
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,440
But it's, it's a job.
It's, it's, it's just part of

374
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,640
life.
It's like, just like how you pay

375
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,040
rent, you've got to make sure
you do this part of your life.

376
00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,400
And it's not easy, but it was
working for me and it still

377
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,840
works for me.
But without the math, I couldn't

378
00:19:19,840 --> 00:19:22,400
do any of it.
I couldn't focus, I didn't have

379
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,400
any energy.
I was in so much pain.

380
00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:29,440
I was just like curled up in my
vehicle, like it was so painful.

381
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,560
And then when I started taking
kratom, obviously it gave me

382
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:36,840
this insane amount of relief and
focus again and joy.

383
00:19:36,840 --> 00:19:40,880
I was able to like, Oh my gosh,
this is a natural substance that

384
00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,120
I can use, that I can do this, I
can do this.

385
00:19:43,120 --> 00:19:45,040
I can find my way back to
myself.

386
00:19:45,360 --> 00:19:47,800
I can heal.
I knew that it was going to be a

387
00:19:47,800 --> 00:19:50,800
long time getting this crap out
of my body from meth because it

388
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,440
builds up in there.
I had no idea that these

389
00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:56,080
crystals would come out of my
skin.

390
00:19:56,080 --> 00:19:59,560
I had no idea that it would take
as long as it did.

391
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,280
I knew that it would take a
while, but the boils that would

392
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,400
pop up and crystals that came
out of them, that is not

393
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:07,960
delusional.
That is a real thing.

394
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:10,360
If you ask anyone else who's
done meth for a long time,

395
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,480
you'll find that that is
something that literally happens

396
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,600
when you detox.
It's the scariest, craziest

397
00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,360
thing and the boils are painful.
Everything is just so much pain.

398
00:20:22,360 --> 00:20:26,560
It's in, it's in your fibers, in
your, in your muscles and in

399
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:29,080
your fascia and in your
bloodstream and it it takes a

400
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:35,040
long time to come out.
So kratom was just the only way

401
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:36,160
that I could get through the
day.

402
00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,440
It was the only way I could get
through the day while my body

403
00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:43,480
was detoxing off of this meth.
Yeah, that's wow.

404
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,440
You're great with storytelling,
by the way.

405
00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:50,520
I, I love listening to this.
You're painting a very vivid

406
00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:53,920
picture and I, I had no clue
about, you know, some of those

407
00:20:53,920 --> 00:20:56,120
issues you run into with with
math.

408
00:20:56,120 --> 00:20:58,080
So you're definitely educating
me on this.

409
00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,960
Now being that you do the van
live, I imagine that you just

410
00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,520
get kratom in smoke shops as you
travel.

411
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,480
Like how?
How are you getting your kratom?

412
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,840
Yeah, so there's obviously I,
the last I checked, there were

413
00:21:11,840 --> 00:21:13,600
like 4 states where it's
illegal.

414
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,960
Maybe I'm wrong.
You probably know better than

415
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:18,720
me.
It's 6 sometimes changes, but

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:22,280
currently there's there's
Wisconsin, Indiana, Arkansas,

417
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:27,160
Alabama, Vermont and Rhode
Island and we're very close to

418
00:21:27,160 --> 00:21:30,800
getting Arkansas overturned.
That's been going on the last

419
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:36,280
few weeks and all of that is
just been from a misinformation

420
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:40,960
and propaganda that got it
banned in the 1st place is so

421
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:44,080
insane when you go learn about
the history of this.

422
00:21:44,280 --> 00:21:47,240
We're very close to getting
Arkansas, the KCPA, the Krame

423
00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,520
Consumer Protection Act, and to
decriminalize kratom.

424
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,600
They're working on other states.
We're really close with Rhode

425
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:55,800
Island.
It passed the House and the

426
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,880
Senate last year, but the
governor vetoed it.

427
00:21:58,360 --> 00:22:01,080
So they're still trying to.
They're still trying to work.

428
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:02,920
Yeah.
Like, it was so close to

429
00:22:02,920 --> 00:22:05,760
passing, like, to have the House
and the Senate in Rhode Island

430
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:08,480
ready to overturn it.
But the the.

431
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,800
Companies in his pockets or her
pockets?

432
00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,440
Yeah, we all know that's, that's
wow.

433
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,520
We, we found out that was the
case.

434
00:22:15,520 --> 00:22:19,440
But you know, the American Cram
Association does a great job of

435
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,840
of staying on top of all these
legal issues and getting

436
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:26,960
lobbyists in place and talking
to these different legislators.

437
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:32,080
So, yeah, I mean, we're
definitely seeing that tide turn

438
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,600
more favorably.
But yeah, sadly, there are a

439
00:22:35,600 --> 00:22:36,960
handful of states where it's
banned.

440
00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:40,040
So I imagine when you're
traveling, you're you're aware

441
00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:43,880
of like place it because not
just this these states, they're

442
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:48,520
actually municipalities, like in
Illinois, they've gone crazy in

443
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,560
that state.
There's all these different

444
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,360
communities, like suburbs around
Chicago that just one by one,

445
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:57,600
most of the time it's just
banning the sale.

446
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,360
Like you wouldn't be able to go
to the smoke shop.

447
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:00,880
Like it's not a possession
thing.

448
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,520
But some places like in like in
Louisiana, there's all these

449
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,920
parishes where they criminalize
it.

450
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,520
Oh, it's just.
So when I I'm from Vermont and

451
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,920
of course it was illegal there
and when I was I was detoxing, I

452
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:18,120
did go back home to my home
state to visit some family and

453
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,880
I, I came clean to them.
I was like, This is why I use

454
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:22,080
it.
I have been using meth for

455
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,720
through there.
They were totally they had no

456
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:25,480
idea.
And they were like, well, good

457
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:26,600
for you.
Use what you got to eat.

458
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,880
Like I'm good, awesome.
So I tried to get it sent to

459
00:23:29,880 --> 00:23:32,760
Vermont because I ordered it
online because I couldn't find

460
00:23:32,760 --> 00:23:34,320
it anywhere.
I was calling every smoke shop

461
00:23:34,320 --> 00:23:35,720
in Vermont.
I was like, why don't they have

462
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:37,760
it here?
Maybe it's just a small state

463
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,360
and they don't, you know, they
just don't know.

464
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,440
And then when I ordered it
online, the company that I

465
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:46,560
ordered it from actually called
me and was like, you realize

466
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,600
that we can't send it to you
here, right?

467
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:51,280
And I'm like, what do you mean
it's illegal in Vermont?

468
00:23:51,280 --> 00:23:54,800
And I'm like, oh, I had no idea.
So that's when I started like,

469
00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,920
learning that some of these
states had laws against it, that

470
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:01,040
some parishes had state laws
against it and that like San

471
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,320
Diego had criminalized it and
all these other places.

472
00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:08,360
And I was like, OK, so I had
planned anyway to go up to my

473
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:10,680
friends in in Maine.
And I said, can I just get it

474
00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,320
sent there?
And they were like, yeah, we

475
00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:13,920
just we can't send it to you in
Vermont.

476
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,080
I was like, OK, that's fine.
So I did come across some

477
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,440
barriers.
Absolutely.

478
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:24,200
But because again, because I was
a nomad, I could take a 2 hour

479
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,400
drive and go to a place where it
was legal.

480
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:29,640
And anybody can do that if they
have access to a vehicle.

481
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,320
Absolutely.
But know that some people don't

482
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:35,280
know that they think it's
illegal in their state, must be

483
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:37,400
illegal everywhere and that's
not the case.

484
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,120
You can get it sent to, you
know, a general delivery if you

485
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:44,480
need to outside of the state and
just cross state lines.

486
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,920
But just keep in mind that if
you bring it back in that state

487
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,640
and you try to, you know,
disperse it to people with for

488
00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,200
money, if you try to sell it, it
is you might get to charge.

489
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,280
So you have to be careful.
But I did know about that after

490
00:24:57,280 --> 00:24:59,160
a little while of use.
I think I was using it for like

491
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,360
3 or 4 months at that point.
And so, you know, you live, you

492
00:25:02,360 --> 00:25:03,720
learn.
And I figured it out and I

493
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,840
realized I had to go pick some
up in a different state.

494
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,480
And then I realized then and
there that I needed to have a

495
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:13,840
lot on me that there that this
was important to me that I

496
00:25:13,840 --> 00:25:16,640
needed to have just like meth, I
needed to have a stash because

497
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:19,200
I, I, this was a medicine for
me.

498
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,120
And if I didn't have it while I
traveled, I was going to be, you

499
00:25:22,120 --> 00:25:25,680
know, in a big bad place up a
Creek without a paddle.

500
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:28,920
So I made sure that I had a
supply.

501
00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:33,960
And because I was rationing it
to myself, I, I, I kept my

502
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:37,560
supply going, but I was always
excited to try a new brand or a,

503
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,120
you know, a new strain or
something.

504
00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:41,360
You know, you always come across
the different shops and they

505
00:25:41,360 --> 00:25:43,200
have different brands and they
have different, you know,

506
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,640
different types of stuff you can
try.

507
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:48,400
And like, I would just get the
little packets and try to see if

508
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,080
it worked for me.
And there is a big difference

509
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:55,480
between the brands and how they,
whatever they do to make their

510
00:25:55,480 --> 00:25:57,480
powders.
I'm sure some of them have

511
00:25:57,480 --> 00:26:00,160
fillers in it now, I'm sure that
they're not labeling it

512
00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:02,240
correctly.
Some of it's not organic.

513
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,880
So you have to be, do your
research on the company that you

514
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,800
decide to purchase from.
And if you try something new,

515
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,680
try a little bit first.
Don't just like go all in with

516
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:13,720
your regular dose because you
don't know how it's going to be

517
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:16,720
free.
Yeah, exactly.

518
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,160
You know, a lot of people like
I've always bought my Kratom

519
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:22,600
through reputable online vendors
and it's always most of them

520
00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,240
have been really good quality.
And yeah, they're not going to a

521
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:28,120
reputable vendor is not going to
ship to a state that bans it

522
00:26:28,120 --> 00:26:30,320
because they can get to a lot of
trouble for doing that.

523
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,720
A lot of people have told me
over the years that what, you

524
00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:38,040
know, they buy kratom at smoke
shops and once they compare that

525
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,840
to that, plus some of these
reputable vendors, they order

526
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:43,240
from online, like, you know,
hearing about the ones I have.

527
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,520
And I always have the links in
the show notes if anybody wants

528
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,320
to check it out.
But you know, I do a lot of

529
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:51,080
research on mine before I ever,
you know, consume it first.

530
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,720
And so I've been six years into
my kratom journey.

531
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,320
I have a variety of vendors I
like to rotate because I think

532
00:26:56,320 --> 00:26:59,680
that's an important part of what
works for me because I've never

533
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,880
had a tolerance issue in these
six years.

534
00:27:02,120 --> 00:27:04,680
And I really think it's because
I've been rotating vendors from

535
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:08,240
day one, but a lot of people
will tell me that they'll try

536
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:11,280
one of the vendors that I
recommend and say, Oh my God,

537
00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,320
I've been doing this smoke shop
kratom for a long time.

538
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:16,280
And it's not nearly like
comparing.

539
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,920
It's like, wow, this vendor you
recommended was like way better

540
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,560
quality.
Not to say that all smoke shops

541
00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:26,560
are like that, but I think maybe
some of those bigger ones that

542
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:29,520
sell to like all smokes, like,
you know, there's some brands

543
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:33,000
that like you see in every smoke
shop that I don't know if it's

544
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,080
just more of a watered down,
like maybe fillers, like you

545
00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,720
said, who knows?
But it's just interesting when

546
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:40,960
people talk about quality and
you don't know till you try

547
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:42,800
different ones.
And I've tried a variety of

548
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,000
brands over the years and yes,
some are better than others.

549
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,200
Some are like, whoa, this not
nearly as good.

550
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:53,480
But but when you're doing the
van life, I imagine it's just so

551
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:56,000
much easier to just pick it up
when you're, you know, on the

552
00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:58,800
road and you see smoke shops and
like you said, trying different

553
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,760
brands, which I think is cool.
And let me ask you this with

554
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,000
these smoke shops, because so
many times people will tell me

555
00:28:06,160 --> 00:28:09,680
smoke shops that people are just
not knowledgeable about kratom.

556
00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,840
Most times they just point to
it.

557
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,320
They don't know anything.
Every once in a while I'll have

558
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,080
somebody on the podcast that
said my local smoke shop.

559
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:21,240
They were so knowledgeable.
They guided me, they helped me,

560
00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,760
they answered my questions.
I don't hear that very often.

561
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:27,000
Since you travel so much, what's
been your experience with smoke

562
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:28,560
shops?
Are are very many of them

563
00:28:28,560 --> 00:28:32,480
knowledgeable or or no?
I find out West a lot more

564
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:35,480
people know about it.
It's also used in the

565
00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:38,880
bodybuilding world so if you go
to like a a supplement or

566
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,440
vitamin shop sometimes they have
a little bit more knowledge

567
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:43,920
about it too.
At the same in the same breath,

568
00:28:43,920 --> 00:28:46,440
I've gone through a supplement
shop because they had a kratom

569
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:50,520
sign out side went in and they
had like they had two jars of

570
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:51,560
it.
They didn't even know about

571
00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:54,600
colors and I was like, what is
that like?

572
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,760
And they're they were like going
to scoop it into a bag for me

573
00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:01,760
and I was like, no, that that's
OK, I'm I'll go somewhere else.

574
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,960
So you have you know, you have
to do it's definitely ADYOR

575
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:10,600
thing.
You want to be informed and if

576
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,000
if you're someone who reacts
really sensitively to stuff like

577
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:17,440
I do, you want to try what
you're doing first.

578
00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:20,520
So like don't go out and like
try a new brand and get like a

579
00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:24,360
big dump truck full of it.
Go out, get a get something you

580
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,320
can afford, maybe a 10 or
$15.00, you know, pouch or

581
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:30,200
container of it and use it
sparingly.

582
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,520
Just give yourself a minute to
get used to it.

583
00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,480
And if it doesn't work, try
something else or try a bigger

584
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:41,080
dose.
And if it does, then you've got

585
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,680
yourself something you can work
with, right?

586
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:46,320
But yeah, not honestly.
Excellent.

587
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:50,440
That's excellent advice because,
yeah, many times people learn

588
00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,640
about kratom, they buy large
quantities without even trying

589
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,040
it first to see if it works for
them or or trying a new brand.

590
00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:00,080
Anytime I try a new brand for
the first time, I always just

591
00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:04,200
buy the smallest size of what
they have just to see if it's

592
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:06,720
something I like that it doesn't
help my pain.

593
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,040
You know, I think that's that
excellent advice you shared with

594
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:14,640
that.
So going back to when you're

595
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:17,800
traveling and you were talking
before about, you know, just

596
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,760
buying it where it's legal and
then going back across state

597
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,520
lines, you know, being that I've
been so immersed in the advocacy

598
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,120
world and all this legal stuff
for years now, there's actually

599
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:30,320
been 2 cases.
I know not everybody knows about

600
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:31,360
this.
That's why I want to bring it

601
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,680
up.
There's been 2 cases where

602
00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:37,480
people bought it legally at a
smoke shop in a legal state,

603
00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:40,960
cross state lines to their
illegal state and ended up in

604
00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,480
jail.
And so there's, there's two of

605
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:45,720
us want to make sure people are
aware and let you know.

606
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,600
So not to say that that's not
something like, you know, hey,

607
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,160
if this works for you and being
able to, I mean.

608
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,520
Some states is illegal because I
I I knew that in some states it

609
00:30:56,520 --> 00:30:59,600
was possession, in other states
it's if you try to sell it.

610
00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,880
So these are possession.
These are possession states.

611
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,320
So Alabama and Arkansas.
So very quickly to educate our

612
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:08,440
listeners and to let you know,
yeah, a couple of these states

613
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,080
were as criminalized.
You could go to jail.

614
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:12,880
You go to prison for.
For just.

615
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:18,600
Having kratom like like that, it
seems like in some places they

616
00:31:18,600 --> 00:31:20,800
were staking out smoke shops.
The whole thing is just so

617
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:22,880
crazy.
So there was a case of Marshall

618
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,960
Price.
So he bought kratom legally, I

619
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,440
think it was Missouri.
He crossed state lines and into

620
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:35,240
Arkansas and it is criminalized
there and he was caught with

621
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,400
like 200 grams.
He had his car.

622
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,040
He was using it for his
recovery.

623
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,280
He had been off the drugs.
He was doing great.

624
00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,360
He had like spent 20 years in
addiction.

625
00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:47,440
Life by catching a charge.
Oh my.

626
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,720
God, they, they, they, he, you
know, went to jail.

627
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:56,000
He got a 10 year prison sentence
on the trial.

628
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:59,360
They weren't even allowed to.
You know, they say schedule he

629
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,200
had schedule one on him.
Schedule 1200 grams, schedule

630
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:03,560
one.
Well, when you hear that you're

631
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,120
on a jury, what do you think
that is?

632
00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:06,880
Oh, it must have.
Been or something?

633
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,760
Or something.
Or yeah, they they weren't

634
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,840
allowed to tell them that it was
kratom.

635
00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:14,200
That was tea leaves.
So he gets 10 years.

636
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Three weeks into his sentence.
He was killed in jail and under

637
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,200
very unusual circumstances.
So all of this because he had

638
00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:26,960
kratom in his car that helped
him in his sobriety.

639
00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,280
And so, you know, the advocates
have been fighting so hard to

640
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,640
get that overturned in Arkansas.
As I was mentioning earlier,

641
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:36,480
we're so close.
And his daughter, Julian Price,

642
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:40,040
who I got to meet in Washington,
DCA few years ago, has become a

643
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:42,880
big advocate in the kratom
community because of what

644
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,800
happened to her father.
So yeah, a few weeks ago, a

645
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:49,040
group of them were in Arkansas
at the state capitol.

646
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,640
And you know, we're baby steps,
we're making progress.

647
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,800
And it's great to help provide
closure to her and her family

648
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,440
because his death was several
years ago and it's like he can't

649
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:03,840
die in vain because of this
ridiculous law over tea leaves,

650
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,160
you know, And then there's Shana
Brown.

651
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,640
She bought kratom legally in
Florida, cross an imaginary

652
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:14,240
state line into Alabama, gets
pulled over when she crosses

653
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,160
imaginary state line.
And they and she was using it

654
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,480
for her sobriety too.
Found it threw her in jail.

655
00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,280
She was in jail for about, I
want to say about nine months.

656
00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:26,640
I think it was eight or nine
months.

657
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,240
We've we heard about it.
And we all collectively as

658
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,680
kratom advocates started raising
money to help bail her out.

659
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:39,560
When she was arrested for having
kratom on her in Alabama, they

660
00:33:39,560 --> 00:33:42,920
put her bond at $1 million.
Oh my God.

661
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,080
And it's like.
Though at this point what states

662
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,840
it just feels like it's a money
maker.

663
00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,800
It's a money maker.
It's a way for them to make

664
00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:53,800
money off of the people and and
ruin people's lives.

665
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:55,520
They don't care.
They don't care about ruining

666
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:58,320
people's lives.
Even though that person was was

667
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:00,640
probably coming off of a
horrible drug and improving

668
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,440
their life beyond any measure
that this put her in jail could

669
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,400
ever imagine.
That's exactly what was

670
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:07,720
happening.
She had cleaned up her life.

671
00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:12,159
She was doing so well.
This happens, she's in jail, She

672
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:14,159
has no idea.
There's all of us kratom

673
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:16,920
consumers and advocates that
found out and we're collectively

674
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:21,159
raising money for her.
So over time, they reduced her

675
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:24,800
bail slowly, but she was there
for a long time.

676
00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,440
We finally raised enough.
It was going to cost a fortune

677
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:29,480
to get her a lawyer that could
help her with this.

678
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,199
We finally raised enough to hire
an attorney, get her bailed out.

679
00:34:34,199 --> 00:34:36,520
I think by the time we got her
bailed out all those months

680
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,719
later, I think they had dropped
her bail down to start in a

681
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:41,920
million.
Then I think maybe 250,000, I

682
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,800
don't remember exactly.
Then I think it got to 75,000, I

683
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:46,120
think, I don't remember the
details.

684
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:49,159
It's been a while now.
So we finally got her bailed out

685
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:53,199
and it's still hanging over her.
And this, this was like she got

686
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:54,239
bailed out about a year and a
half.

687
00:34:54,239 --> 00:34:55,760
This whole thing happened like 2
years ago.

688
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:58,800
I think it's two years this
month in April when we're doing

689
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,840
this interview.
It's been a while, but this is

690
00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:03,840
still hanging over her.
It's not resolved yet, but at

691
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:06,600
least we got her out of jail and
got her a good attorney.

692
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,640
But things like this can't
happen.

693
00:35:09,120 --> 00:35:12,280
Reading laws about this, it's
not like we learn about kratom

694
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:14,680
in public school, you know, it's
just like the other drugs, like,

695
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:17,200
yeah, we're taught about them
DARE and the DARE program, you

696
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,400
know, and all these things like
don't use these drugs like these

697
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:22,520
are horrible.
You know, there's, there's media

698
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,080
about it there, there's
pamphlets about there's, you

699
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,200
know, there's talk about it.
But when it's something that's

700
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,520
so shoved under the rug that
people don't really understand

701
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,880
and then to, you know, take
someone's freedom away from it,

702
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:39,200
that that's so wrong on so many
levels.

703
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,080
I'm so sorry for her and her
family.

704
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,160
It's awful.
And then we also heard of a

705
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:47,520
story about a year ago, a guy, I
forgot which state it was, where

706
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,280
it's criminalized.
He had moringa in his car, which

707
00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:54,200
is just a harmless supplement.
They thought it was kratom.

708
00:35:54,480 --> 00:35:57,480
So this guy was in jail for
months because they hadn't

709
00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:01,520
tested it yet to realize it was
not even kratom, it was moringa.

710
00:36:02,080 --> 00:36:04,840
So eventually.
Until proven guilty, right?

711
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:07,480
Yeah.
So he was locked up for, I think

712
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:10,200
he was there for like 8 months
or 6 a long time.

713
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:15,560
Insanity happens.
Yeah, it's just crazy.

714
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,360
So I think it's important for
people to understand like the

715
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,240
legalities in certain locations.
You know, when you mentioned San

716
00:36:22,240 --> 00:36:24,160
Diego earlier, that story is
crazy.

717
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:26,920
The city of San Diego, the
reason why they banned kratom,

718
00:36:27,240 --> 00:36:32,640
it's the craziest thing because
they wanted to take spice and K2

719
00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:34,760
off the shelf.
And at the time when they did

720
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,760
this, kratom was right next to
it in the smoke shop on the

721
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:40,520
shelves.
So they love kratom with it.

722
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,800
And that's why, to this day,
kratom is still banned.

723
00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,200
But guess what's decriminalized
there in California?

724
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:50,160
What?
Math.

725
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,000
You can you can.
Sure you can get like a felony

726
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,720
after so many charges, but if
they catch you with a certain

727
00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:03,360
amount on you or distributing a
certain amount, it's not a

728
00:37:03,360 --> 00:37:04,920
felony anymore.
It's decriminalized.

729
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:06,920
So they just want you to pay a
fine.

730
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:10,880
It's just that you know and
that's it.

731
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,480
Slap in the hand and you don't
have to go to jail.

732
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,400
Nothing.
If it's so many things after

733
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:20,120
like 3 strikes you get a felony.
I don't know the exact laws on

734
00:37:20,120 --> 00:37:22,400
that so don't quote me, but I
know that it's decriminalized in

735
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:23,080
California.
Now.

736
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:28,920
When I was in California, I was
when I was on it because I was

737
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,240
in a Slab City, that whole
Southern California area and I

738
00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:36,040
was still on meth.
I remember going to, I think it

739
00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:39,760
was Palm Springs wasn't far.
It was a little bit north of

740
00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:45,040
Slab City.
And I was walking down the road

741
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:47,720
with my dog, and I remember
looking into an alley and I saw

742
00:37:47,720 --> 00:37:52,080
a cop car, the a cruiser, a
cruiser with the lights and

743
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:54,600
everything, like broad as
daylight.

744
00:37:55,240 --> 00:37:59,240
And there was a uniformed police
officer inside that vehicle

745
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:04,560
smoking meth out of a piezo in
uniform and everything.

746
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:14,880
And I realized at this point,
like, OK, OK, so now we know why

747
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:16,640
it's decriminalized because
they're doing it too.

748
00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:20,760
Where, yeah, they're going to
take it from you if they find it

749
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:21,840
on you, but they're going to do
it.

750
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,040
And and don't think they're not
like, I'm sorry, I'm going to

751
00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:30,240
have to call out the very, very
deranged Police Department in

752
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,520
California.
Like all of them.

753
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:37,160
They're they're a little.
We don't have to go there, but

754
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:38,840
they're.
Not there's just some crazy

755
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,280
laws.
There's you know, I don't know

756
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,000
if you in Texas where I live.
I thought this was seriously

757
00:38:44,000 --> 00:38:45,120
last week.
I thought it was a joke.

758
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:49,120
I saw a random TikTok in my feed
in the 4U feed that mentioned

759
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,880
something about some new crazy
law in Texas that they just

760
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:54,760
passed that criminalize you for
being over caffeinated.

761
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,960
I think that can't be real.
So yeah, I know.

762
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:00,920
So I'm like, I didn't even go
Google it or I just thought

763
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:02,800
there's no way that's real.
There's no way.

764
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:07,840
And then I casually mention it
last week in our Kratom gals

765
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:09,760
live stream.
And while we're live streaming

766
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,520
people that people heard me say
this other and they're in the

767
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,200
comments saying let me go Google
this.

768
00:39:14,240 --> 00:39:16,360
And people came back said, Oh my
God, this is real.

769
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,040
I'm like, it is.
So I go and Google it and was

770
00:39:20,360 --> 00:39:24,680
yeah, it turns out that very
recently here in Texas, they

771
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:30,560
added to the DWI laws that if if
you are over caffeinated, you

772
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,760
could be charged with how are
they going to test?

773
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,520
You for that I.
Have no idea so fast.

774
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:38,960
I have no idea because like the.
Truckers that like live.

775
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,440
Right.
Monsters and Red Bulls, right?

776
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:42,880
Kidding.
You can't do that.

777
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,840
So I don't have caffeine when
they're working as a driver

778
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:46,840
sometimes.
Oh my.

779
00:39:47,720 --> 00:39:50,000
I'm not sure, like do they have
to do a blood test?

780
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,480
I mean, I guess it would be all
right.

781
00:39:51,480 --> 00:39:53,560
They suspect you of driving
erratically.

782
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,200
They assume alcohol.
They do a blood alcohol test and

783
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,400
then or what?
And then when they do that, they

784
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:02,960
also check.
I don't know, But it just shows

785
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,000
the craziness and overreach
we're seeing in government

786
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:08,960
because you know, with kratom,
we're always under attack with

787
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:10,440
kratom.
But to have.

788
00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:15,200
State of Texas going after being
over caffeinated is is there's a

789
00:40:15,200 --> 00:40:18,480
lot of craziness going on.
It just shows that they know

790
00:40:18,480 --> 00:40:21,360
what we're addicted to.
They know what we need to find

791
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,320
this crazy society that they've
created for us and that, you

792
00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,320
know, we fuel it too.
But now they're like, OK, how

793
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:29,520
can we control it even more?
So how can we we know they're

794
00:40:29,520 --> 00:40:30,840
addicted.
What can we do now?

795
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,320
They're going to have like a,
you know, a section in the laws

796
00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:35,840
for caffeine now.
And and you're going to have

797
00:40:35,840 --> 00:40:37,520
licensing.
If you were going to sell over

798
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:39,920
so much caffeine now, right?
It's going to get crazy.

799
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,120
Yeah, we're looking, we're
looking down a road of like,

800
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:45,400
it's a very scary time.
It's a very scary.

801
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:47,480
It is scary.
It is scary.

802
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:51,280
I want to go back to like your
kratom earlier, talk about like

803
00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:53,760
green kratom now.
Is kratom something that you

804
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,720
take every day or as it just as
you feel you need it like?

805
00:40:57,720 --> 00:41:00,360
What's your routine like?
So I don't have to take it

806
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:01,840
anymore.
That's the best part.

807
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:03,800
Like I, I don't, I haven't taken
it.

808
00:41:04,560 --> 00:41:07,280
Geez.
Probably like 3 years.

809
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,600
There are times when I'm like
intensively doing labor

810
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:13,360
intensive stuff.
Like sometimes I'll, I'll trim

811
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:14,960
on a farm in Oregon.
Don't worry, you guys, it's

812
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,440
legal there.
I have my OLCC, which is my, my

813
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:22,400
liquor license and all that,
that I can, I can work with

814
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:24,840
marijuana up in, in Oregon and
all that.

815
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,320
It's, it's a permit that you pay
for you to take a test.

816
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,960
So it's legal, but I'll trim and
it, it's very high focus, like a

817
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,840
high.
It's not energy really because

818
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,520
you're, you're sitting down
while you're doing this, but it,

819
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,400
it can be very tedious and like
it'll make you go crazy if you

820
00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:42,280
don't have the focus to do it.
So when I was doing that for

821
00:41:42,280 --> 00:41:45,400
some work, I was taking Kratom
that and I was taking one dose a

822
00:41:45,400 --> 00:41:46,840
day and that was it.
It just mixed it with some

823
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,680
orange juice in the morning,
just like maybe a teaspoon,

824
00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:53,160
maybe half a teaspoon, if that,
maybe even less.

825
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,600
And it would just help me get
through this and I would trim

826
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:59,520
like a rock star and I didn't
have pain because sometimes when

827
00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:01,240
you're trimming with the little
scissors, you do get a little

828
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:03,720
bit of arthritis.
And so that helped me get

829
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:05,360
through that.
I didn't have inflammation.

830
00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:08,720
And then I was, I would go for a
hike in the evening and feel

831
00:42:08,720 --> 00:42:11,320
better about my life and not be
stuck at this trim room.

832
00:42:11,640 --> 00:42:15,560
But that's really the only time
I used it after that year, that

833
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,960
straight year of using it after
I weaned off of meth, I used

834
00:42:19,240 --> 00:42:21,360
kratom for a year and weaned off
of that.

835
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,360
And I wanted to get back to
normalcy.

836
00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:27,600
I wanted to see it so I didn't
have the pain, chronic pain from

837
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,880
like an injury or an illness
like like you or someone else

838
00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:32,840
does.
I really wanted to use use it to

839
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,520
get off of that addiction and it
was an incredible tool that

840
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:40,360
saved my life to do that.
So after that year, I only used

841
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,560
it because I knew it existed.
At this point I was like, well,

842
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,280
now I can use it as a tool for
other things in my life.

843
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:47,920
And I honestly haven't taken it
in about 3 years.

844
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:52,640
I haven't needed to.
That's great to hear because I

845
00:42:52,640 --> 00:42:55,600
don't hear that very often.
Not to say there aren't people

846
00:42:56,240 --> 00:42:58,880
that, that have gone through
what you've gone through and,

847
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:01,640
and, and that, you know, are
like you, they, they were able

848
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:04,440
to stop too completely.
But most people I talked to that

849
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:08,560
used it as a recovery tool will
still take it daily or several

850
00:43:08,560 --> 00:43:10,120
times a week.
Like it's almost like a

851
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,760
maintenance thing.
So I find it really fascinating

852
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,280
that you don't even need that,
which is great because why take

853
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:18,120
it like it's one thing we have
chronic pain.

854
00:43:18,120 --> 00:43:21,800
Like OK, instead of taking
narcotics every day, I'm using a

855
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:22,680
plant which I.
Think.

856
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:28,880
You're a wiser thing.
But if it was to help stop

857
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,160
cravings or feeling sick from,
from, you know, something else,

858
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:35,960
it's like, yeah, it'd be nice
to, like, get to a point where

859
00:43:35,960 --> 00:43:38,720
OK, it, it helped me get out of
that, right.

860
00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:41,280
And now it's nice to know this
is a tool that's available

861
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,920
anytime I need it, but I don't.
Have to.

862
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,960
And everybody uses tools
differently, you know, like some

863
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:49,600
people use a hammer to break
apart pallet wood, other people

864
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:52,520
use it to pound a nail.
And it's all about how you use

865
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,440
it and what works for you.
Absolutely.

866
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,000
It's a tool.
I love that.

867
00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:02,120
That is so awesome to hear.
So do you do much advocating?

868
00:44:02,120 --> 00:44:04,040
Like I know you're excited to
come on and you've you've

869
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:08,280
mentioned to me before, before
we started our our chat today,

870
00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:12,800
you had mentioned, I think in
one of your emails that you that

871
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:16,880
you've talked about it online
and, and are helping people.

872
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,600
So are you like putting like
videos to like, like, you know,

873
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:22,040
you go on my social media,
you're going to see me videos of

874
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,040
me talking about Kratom and just
sharing my personal experience.

875
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,960
So are you doing that much?
I know you're big on TikTok and.

876
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:29,840
Occasionally on TikTok,
absolutely.

877
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:34,600
I definitely talk about it in my
blogs on YouTube and in Patreon.

878
00:44:34,720 --> 00:44:37,640
It's a constant thing because
when I, I do 2 lives a week on,

879
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,760
on Patreon and that community,
you know there that there's a

880
00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:44,520
lot of Slab City stuff in there.
And because I spent so much time

881
00:44:44,520 --> 00:44:48,200
on math in Slab City, I do bring
it up a lot that like, listen,

882
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:51,240
if any of you are struggling
with this, like I talk about my

883
00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:54,720
Matthews freely because I want
people to feel like they can

884
00:44:54,720 --> 00:44:56,920
too.
I've, there's a lot of things in

885
00:44:56,920 --> 00:45:00,320
my life that I found like even
in, in eating disorder and Ed,

886
00:45:01,080 --> 00:45:03,600
if you have gone through
something, it's, it's always

887
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,080
such a shameful thing.
Everyone shames you for it.

888
00:45:06,240 --> 00:45:08,000
What's wrong with you?
Oh my God.

889
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:11,000
And it should never be that way.
We should be able to talk about

890
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,760
our issues freely because it
helps others along their path

891
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:17,920
with the same issues.
And when it's it's not, you

892
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,840
know, it doesn't like create a
bond between you because Oh

893
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,840
well, we have the same problem.
No, it you're a lighthouse, you

894
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:26,800
become a lighthouse.
At that point, when you can

895
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:29,760
overcome something like that,
you should be talking about it.

896
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,560
You should be sharing your
experiences and with Kratom I

897
00:45:32,560 --> 00:45:35,720
love talking about that
experience because every time

898
00:45:35,760 --> 00:45:40,360
meth comes up in my slab city
talks in my Patreon in anything

899
00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,200
I always wrap it up with If you
are struggling with this please

900
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,240
reach out because there are
things that can help you that I

901
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:49,520
can't talk about freely on this
app and sometimes I'll spell it

902
00:45:49,520 --> 00:45:53,360
out KRATOM or I'll say it rhymes
with schmatum and starts with

903
00:45:53,360 --> 00:45:54,880
AK.
You have to use the code words

904
00:45:54,880 --> 00:45:58,520
on TikTok but I absolutely
advocate for it even though I'm

905
00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:01,960
not using it anymore.
I love that you do that.

906
00:46:01,960 --> 00:46:04,800
You'll need to send me links to
some of your specific videos.

907
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:08,080
I can put in the show notes to
direct people to that.

908
00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,840
I'm sure they'll find very
useful.

909
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:12,240
Bunny, this is just an amazing
conversation.

910
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,480
I feel like we could talk all
day about this.

911
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:16,960
We'll wrap up with the last
question.

912
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,880
I always ask all my guests this.
Knowing everything you know now

913
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:22,320
about kratom and you know quite
a bit because you started this

914
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,440
some time ago, what advice would
you give to someone?

915
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:27,040
I mean, you've kind of been
sharing it.

916
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,240
You just shared some stuff.
You shared some other advice

917
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:32,520
kind of knowledge earlier, but
like if somebody came to you and

918
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:35,880
say hey what advice can you give
me to help get me started on

919
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:37,320
this journey, what would you
tell them?

920
00:46:38,160 --> 00:46:40,680
Do your research, do your
research first because each

921
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,080
vein, each color there, I'm sure
you already know this, but if

922
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:47,400
anyone doesn't know, underneath
the leaf of the kratom plant,

923
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,080
they usually have three
different vein colors, the vein

924
00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:52,360
on the leaf.
And so you'll hear that a lot.

925
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:55,200
You'll hear people talking about
the color and that is the most

926
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,840
important part because each,
each color of the vein, there's

927
00:46:57,840 --> 00:47:00,320
red, there's green and then
there's white.

928
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,160
And each one will do a different
thing for you.

929
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:05,600
And even within that, the
strains will do different things

930
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,480
for you.
So definitely do your research,

931
00:47:07,960 --> 00:47:11,720
read other reviews, try to get
organic obviously, because you

932
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:13,400
don't want any pesticides on
there.

933
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:17,000
And then try a little bit at a
time and give yourself a

934
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:19,120
variety.
Don't be afraid to try different

935
00:47:19,120 --> 00:47:22,960
things, but just try a very
little bit at a time and, and

936
00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,520
you can do this.
You can do this if you're trying

937
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:28,600
to get off of some kind of drug,
you can.

938
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,520
If I can, you can.
I had resigned myself to math

939
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:35,200
for the rest of my life, and
this plant came in and saved my

940
00:47:35,200 --> 00:47:37,440
life.
And always reach out to me.

941
00:47:37,440 --> 00:47:40,000
Reach reach out to anyone you
know who is advocating for

942
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:41,800
kratom because we can help you
through it.

943
00:47:43,680 --> 00:47:46,080
Well said, that was excellent
advice.

944
00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,080
Thank you so much for spending
time with me and my community

945
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:50,960
and sharing your thoughts on
kratom.

946
00:47:50,960 --> 00:47:52,480
This you're a wealth of
knowledge.

947
00:47:53,240 --> 00:47:55,240
So thank you, thank you so much.
Same, same.

948
00:47:55,240 --> 00:47:57,800
So are you and thank you for
doing what you're doing with

949
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,600
Kratom 2.
Because there's so many people

950
00:47:59,600 --> 00:48:03,160
that I have had reach out to me
in my DMS on TikTok that have

951
00:48:03,160 --> 00:48:05,920
said I'm my cousin is
struggling, my friend is

952
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:08,560
struggling, I'm struggling and
I'm like, listen, this is how it

953
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,280
worked for me.
I can't give you doctor's

954
00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:14,440
advice, but I urge you to try it
and it can work as a great tool.

955
00:48:14,680 --> 00:48:16,160
And if I can do it, you can do
it too.

956
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:19,520
Yeah, excellent.
Thank you so much buddy.

957
00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:22,800
Thank you, thank you for having
me.

958
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,120
I'm more than happy to be here
and support this cause it's

959
00:48:27,160 --> 00:48:29,840
plants are amazing plants.
Yes, they are.

960
00:48:30,400 --> 00:48:32,800
I have books.
You're actually on top of books

961
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,040
right now that are additional
plants and plants are the

962
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:40,760
Rockies and edible plants and
there kratom really got me down

963
00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:44,040
that path and to know that
everything on earth we need to

964
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:47,080
heal ourselves is right here.
It's right here.

965
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,760
We just have to learn about it.
So don't be afraid to open a

966
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,400
book or, you know, study up on a
little thing or just Google

967
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,840
something or ask ChatGPT I.
Would love that.

968
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:57,080
Thanks buddy.