Ep 72: Addiction, Recovery, and Kratom: Tracey Slack’s Powerful Story

0:00 The green was where it was at for me. It helped help with the withdrawal, helped with the just the bad mood that use always in coming down off of the stuff. And the green is really what opened my eyes to like wow, this really works. And within a week of using it, it was like I didn't have the cravings. It was like a light switch was just poop off and I didn't think about it all day. I didn't crave it all day. I didn't, it was it amazed the hell out of me. So it was like because of so long of being addicted to something, you're like, oh, this is how my life's just going to be forever. So kratom actually gave me gave me that hope back. So I'm here with Tracy Slack, a very interesting lady I've met online and she's got a really interesting story. So Tracy, thank you so much for joining the Krame Stories podcast.

1:04 I'm really thrilled you're here to Share your story with others because I, you know, one of the reasons why I do this podcast, I feel like people can learn so much from just hearing somebody else's story and feeling less alone. And, and you have such an interesting 1. So let's just start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and life before kratom. I was before I found kratom, I was a 10 year heroin and meth addict. But I was, I call it a table junkie because you lay it on the table and if it was free I'd do it. But I lived that way for a long time and then I got in trouble. I had to go on probation, went to jail and that was finally like enough was enough. And I was watching Hamilton's pharmacopia on vice land and I seen kratom.

1:57 That was the the episode on kratom and I was like, wow, that's, you know, someone being addicted heroin. They really need something to, you know, wean their self down off it because the withdrawals they I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy. Even nowadays if I get too cold, it makes me irritable because it just reminds me of the withdrawal part of it. So I found kratom and the very next day I went to the local smoke shop where they said it could be, you know, found and the guy that was trying to sell it to me knew nothing about it was like, I don't I don't know. That's just what we sell here. And I'm like, OK, so I didn't, I didn't buy it that day because he didn't know anything about it. And I was trying to ask him more questions and he had no recollection of it.

2:46 So I did, you know, some Google digging and found at the time, it was like one of the only vendors on Facebook. So I joined a whole bunch of Facebook kratom groups. This is back in like 2017, mind you. So that was like very limited information, very limited Facebook groups. And I just started doing a whole bunch of those, did some digging of my own, found a vendor. I was like, well, let's try it. And I got a variety pack where it was like red, green and white, you know, the standard variety pack. And I, the red really didn't do much. And I was like, well, that's kind of the red is all you would hear about for heroin worth withdrawals and everything. Everyone recommends the red.

3:32 So I tried that and it didn't work. So I'm like, man, is this even going to work for me? Because I thought maybe the heroin had my tolerance too high and I would have to like take so much powder that I would have to gag on it or something, you know, So and then I finally found the OR tried the green within the next couple of days and it was the green was where it was at for me. It helped help with the withdrawal. It helped with the just the bad mood that use always in coming down off of the stuff and the green is really what opened my eyes to like, wow, this really works. And within a week of using it, it was like I didn't have the cravings. It was like a light switch was just poop off and I didn't think about it all day.

4:20 I didn't crave it all day. I didn't. It was, it amazed the hell out of me. So it was like because of so long of being addicted to something, you're like, oh, this is how my life's just going to be forever. So kratom actually gave me gave me that hope back. That's some, that's amazing. That's that. Yeah. It's so interesting that you heard about this from Hamilton's Pharmacopia. So, you know, you're just watching ATV show and it's very similar to my story because I found out about kratom from watching the documentary A Leap of Faith a couple years later, you know, 2018. It's like really there's a plant that's helping people. It was just so hard to believe, but it also felt believable.

5:02 Like it's like, OK, I got to go try to buy some and try this. So it's interesting how how you went down that road. Yeah, it was. It was a journey, definitely, because you have to. Back then there wasn't no information on it or anything like that. So you had to. And God forbid you Googled it, you Google it, supposedly you're going to die and overdose and all this crap. And I'm like, so finally after joining the Facebook groups, I talked to people that have been taking it for years on end. They were more than generous with their information. And so it was like going from addiction to open armed kratom community. I was like, I was just floored. I was like, wow, there's actually good people still and want to help, you know?

5:46 So it was really cool. Yeah, there were some amazing stories I saw in Facebook groups. You know, same with you. Like I, I did a bunch of research, I joined some Facebook groups and you know, the one Facebook group I found the most information was 1 geared for people using kratom for addiction. And even though I'm coming from chronic pain, I, I felt like, wow, this is, even though it's a very different world compared to, you know, what I go through the, the just sharing, freely sharing information about how to start kratom, just how, how this helps them. But, but through this group, I saw people posting before and after period photos from like when they were, you know, on heroin and, and how they looked.

6:29 And then here's how they're doing now with kratom. It was mind blowing. And I really feel like people in the chronic pain community that discover kratom really should go to a group like that so they could learn more about addiction because it's so easy for people in the chronic pain community to to say, oh, the the war on drugs, you know, is spilled over to us. We can't get our opiates now for our pain because of all the addiction issues that go on. And by me being in this one Facebook group, it just changed my whole perception of like the struggles people go through because they desperately want to get off of drugs. And so many people say, I don't want to be on this.

7:10 I I just want to use Wow. And half of the people kind of like how your story is, they thought the doctor was given that to him. So they thought it was, you know, safe. And that was fine. And it was FDA tested and all that stuff, you know, And it's like they rode a slippery slope. And then they found themself an addiction like, oh man, now my pain, doctors cutting me off and where do I do now, you know? Yeah, and it's just. That's the main part that floored me about the whole thing back then. Yeah, I know they weren't giving them out prescriptions so freely and not checking people. And I mean, you can definitely see how the whole opioid crisis played out. And it just was a lot of greed and money involved, sadly. But thank God there's a plant that is helping so many people. So when you discover kratom, that was like the year after the DEA tried to get it scheduled.

8:10 That was the year that the DEA was trying to get it scheduled. That was the year that I found it. Like it was like I found it earlier on in the year. And then halfway through the year I was hearing that the FDA was going to banned it. And I was like, the one thing I found that was going to help me, that I knew could help me and gave me hope our government's going to take it away like that. The very first band that happened, it set panic through the whole kratom community. And we were signing petitions. We was contacted like pretty much like we do now. We just have our voice heard. And yeah, that part, that part of the whole journey was a little rocky because I was like, man, like, what? What am I going to do?

8:58 So every time the bands come around, I'm like, man, I feel for a lot of the people that, you know, that it's their first band. Going through their first band, they're like, Oh my God, I'm what am I going to do? I'm like, I totally understand. I felt that way. I really appreciate all the people speaking out back when, you know, they were trying to propose that because Schedule 1 means not only is it taken off the market, you can be criminalized, but they can't do any research on it and that would definitely be a problem. So wow. Well, I'm just, I, I advocate so hard because I'm still blown away every day that I use a plant to help with my chronic pain. And so many people use it to curb their addictions or that it helps their depression or anxiety. It's an amazing plant.

9:45 Have you found that in addition to helping you with your sobriety that it helps with other things? It does. I am like the drinking thing, like how people use it to get off drinking. I never expected it to help me because I wasn't a big drinker anyways. I would have one socially here and there, but nowadays I don't even feel like having one socially because I'm like, oh, it's just not appealing to me anymore. So that was the one that really surprised me was that it even helped with drinking too. And that's not even why I started taking kratom. So many people have said the same exact thing, Tracy. I've, I've interviewed so many people for this podcast and countless Times Now people have said that it's almost like this extra benefit they got, they weren't expecting that it would curb their drinking. I had one lady I'd interviewed last year, and she was like, yeah, you know, using it in her sobriety. Kramer's been amazing.

10:38 And then she says, you know what? I realized I've had a six pack of beer sit in my fridge for months. Normally it'd be gone in a few days, but it's still there and I have no desire to drink it. It's like she came to this realization. We're talking like, wow, I don't even crave that anymore. So as a matter of fact, she goes, I'm poured out. It's just interesting how this plant can do so many other things. It really is. It's amazing because it helps in all aspects of it. As long as you, because I feel like if you're an addict, you have those attic tendencies to abuse, even working out, you know, you just have that addictive personality. So I feel like as long as you keep your kratom tolerance and your kratom use in check, it's it's kind of like a cure all in my own opinion. Yeah, it, it really is.

11:26 And so you're, you're a mom. You know, I imagine kratom has been amazing just to give you that ability to just have your life back. It it really has. And then because when I first found Kratom, I wasn't a mom. So then after I had my son back in 20, 21, yeah, 2123, yeah, back in 21, he I had to get AI got a epidural and but I also had to get AC section because his cord was wrapped around his throat a couple times. But they sent me home with I think it was Percocet and I got home and took my kratom instead because when I I broke my arm in a car crash before that and it helped me with the pain way more than the Dilaudid that they gave me did. So I got home and the epidural I still have issues with my back because they left left the tube in my back all night long. Like the morning nurses came in and took it out of my back. And the morning nurses even freaked out was like, Oh my God, why is that still in your back?

12:36 Like I don't know, but get it out. Wow. But I even today, I'll wake up real stiff, I'll have my morning dose and within minutes I'm able to get down on the floor and play with junior or I'll be able to go outside and run behind them. And like it gives me the energy because I also have a under active thyroid. So it helps me give the energies because I'm usually just sluggish and tired all the time. But just having kratom, it helps with multiple things in my daily life. Yeah, that's that's great. Do you talk to people about kratom to help them like through your story? Like specially people you know that you know go through addiction?

13:22 Yes, I do. I've when I very first found kratom, I was posting it all over my own Facebook page. I had numerous like people that I used to use with contact me. They would offer to buy it from me. I'm like, dude, here, try it. Let me know how it works for you. Some people would, you know, they're like, oh, they only tried it once and they're like, I don't want to work and find my dose. It's just junk. I'm like whatever, but if you need it, come back. I don't try to force it on him but I at least let him know like hey here try this because I could really work. Yeah, that's great. I feel like so many people just are not aware of that.

14:02 Botanicals like this can be life changing. They're really not. I only have one other friend and she she got mixed in with that seven O stuff and she came to me and she's like, what is this? I said, girl, that's that's been proven to like be not good for you. It's like the gas station heroin they call it. I'm like here. I gave her a whole bunch of just regular powdered kratom and she weaned herself off of the seven O with the Kratom and I was like, girl, do not, do not ever touch that stuff again. It's like it's been cooked up in a lab. It's got chemicals in it and I'm just not down with seven OI feel like I came off of the real hardcore shit with the kratom. Like the recovery part, that's what kratom helped with. And then the seven O, it's given the kratom a really bad image. It really it really has.

14:56 It's crazy. It's gotten to the point it has now. I mean, thank goodness the FDA is stepping in and you know want to get some regulation in place, schedule it. You know, we don't we don't know exactly where this is going to go, but they are recommending the DEA schedule the seven O products it yeah, this like came out of nowhere like a few years ago and we really. Nowhere over overnight. Yeah, like, like we're finding that it came out like a couple years ago, but the real impact has been this year. It seems like this year in 2025, it's gotten everywhere. It seems like every smoke shop has it got gas stations that have it is so easily accessible and it's. There's so many smoke shops around here that have it, like I'll go in there because I'm, I also, I have a, my green card because it also helps me in other ways as well. But I went in to get a pack of papers and they're like, here, you want those free sample.

15:55 And I'm like, because I knew about it and there was some other person being like, Oh yeah, what is it? And I've, I've pretty much was like, you don't need it. You don't want this. This is going to have you on a path to probably trying to rob this place for all of the seven O in here. I was like, if you don't, if you haven't done Kratom, you haven't started kratom. Don't start that before you try the real kratom. But I pray I let that customer know and I let that store clerk know. Good for you. Well yeah, they're giving up free samples. It's like that. I think that's been the biggest problem in this whole thing with seven O 8 that the then it's like they're legal drug dealers at the moment.

16:37 Like they know what they're doing. It's like, let's give a free sample because they're going to get hooked on it. I I've had countless people tell me about that, like it all started with the free sample of the smoke shop. The yeah, the free sample. And to be honest, I feel like I'm a, you know, my, my conspiracy theory is I feel like the government is behind the seven O and because, you know, that the opioid epidemic's over. So what else could they get some people addicted to that could, you know, be population control or something along those lines? Because I'm just a firm believer that I just don't trust the government. They do not have our best intentions in mind and. That's been proven time and time again, that's for sure. Couple, couple questions ago in it with all of this, But first for those that don't know, what was the green card? The green card is a medical marijuana card. OK.

17:33 I figured in the state of Ohio, yeah, in the state of Ohio it is recreational. But also just because of like my given past and stuff, I like to keep that card because that way I'm fully legal and they can't come for my kid like that. So I make sure I keep that green card so I'm fully legal. That's smart. I love that. Thanks for for explaining that. And back to seven O 8, no. Problem. Anybody that's watching or listening to this right now and they're not even, I mean, I'm sure by now everybody's heard of seven O 8, but I'm constantly having to put out videos explaining the difference between kratom powder, the leaf versus the seven O 8. And there's a lot of confusion among kratom consumers of whole leaf because they'll see their package say 7 OH, but now they're hearing about all these seven OH products And what I the way I explained it to people, as I say, look, you're the plant has all these alkaloids. And the way the seven O happens is in the drying process, because I have to remind people this is a leaf that came off a tree.

18:36 It's got to dry before it gets to you. Yeah, although people over in Southeast Asia, many times, the natural way is they chew the leaf. But we don't do that here. Apparently. We have to have things different and as strong as possible. So the leaf has to dry in the drying process. It it, there's a metabolite that comes out of that, which is the seven OH, And it's normal for it to be in a tiny, tiny amount. If you look at your packaging, it'll usually say something like 0.004% or 001 percent. It's tiny, tiny amount. But what some of these companies have done is they figured out how to synthesize it by taking a kratom extract, which is strong, adding chemicals to it and making that seven OH, turn into basically an opioid. And it's, you know, I'm constantly having to educate people to understand there's a difference between this. How do you explain to people about so are you having people say to you like but isn't kratom isn't 7 OH kratom? Yes, I've had my husband's friend, he calls him his brother, but he's just messaged me the other day and was like, what is 7 O?

19:47 So I had to like tell him that is an alkaloid found in Kratom, but at very, very small amounts when naturally produced. I said the seven O is them taking that seven OH alkaloid out of the regular Kratom and putting it on steroids. I said that's when you get into dangerous territory because he was like, Oh, you better be careful. I've had numerous people in in my town. Oh, I know you take Kratom. You better be careful. And I'm like, did I've been taking it for? Years now and I'm like, it's the seven O and I've even have I have Jordan's TikTok saves save where he's kind of like breaks it down in layman's terms. So I'm like I'll play that for him. Be like just listen to this.

20:34 I do the same thing. I get a lot of people on TikTok asking me for help because they see me explaining it and then they'll tell me. They'll private message me, tell me their story about how they got hooked on it. And I send them just a bunch of different links to videos like Jordan from New Hope Botanicals and others who talk about how to wean off of that and just use leaf powder or or not use anything else at all. I'm so grateful for the people that are sharing their stories to help us because from what I'm seeing, it sounds like it's really hard to get off of. Very, very similar to getting off of. My my friend said that it because me and me and my friend, we used to use heroin together and then she went her separate way and found sobriety. And I've I went my separate way and then after we both got clean, we kind of met back up more like, hey, we reintroduced ourselves, you know, as the sober Tracy. And I'm not going to put her name out there, but I'm just saying my friend.

21:34 And it was like night and day. That was just amazing. Yeah, that's great. So are you, Do you still consume kratom every day? Is that still like a part of your daily routine? Yes, it is a part of my daily routine. I don't always take the same dose. That's kind of like how I try to keep my tolerance in check because I'm, I discovered throughout the years, if I take 2, two teaspoons four to five times a day, then I'll need even more like a week later. So I, my very first dose, I'll take 2 teaspoons for the day.

22:16 And my next dose, it's kind of like a maintenance dose. So I only take a teaspoon because I'll need more energy through the day because I it more is less or sorry, less is more. But yeah, I found a teaspoon is really good for that energy. And then the 2 teaspoons is more of like a pain management type thing. So like in the morning my back hurts a little bit more. So I'll take two throughout the day. When I'm not as sore stuff, I'll take a maintenance dose and I'll take one teaspoon and then I'll give me the energy to run behind Junior and do whatever he's doing. Yeah, it's great how you get the nice energy boost with kratom. Do you do you ever run into tolerance issues with kratom powder? Sometimes I've ran into issues where like it won't work as well if I've been taking it consistently. So then I know I'll have to like take it or you know, I'll have to skip a dose or two or I've never done a full couple day reset just because of how bad my, my lower back hurts. But I do seem to take less.

23:24 If I notice, hey, I'm not getting the same effects that I've been wanting and needing, I'll take a couple days less of stuff. And then I've also found that black seed oil, the black seed oil, it actually does amazing stuff for my tolerance. I'll take it once a day and as long as I keep taking the black seed oil once a day, I don't have to do like a dose increase or I won't have to take more this time or less this time. As long as I'm pretty stable on the black seed oil. My tolerance is pretty pretty good in chat. That's so interesting. So, you know, we call those like potentiators. I remember the first time I saw that one of these Facebook groups early on, people are talking about potentiators, orange juice, lemon juice and, you know, black seed oil and different things. I'm like, potentiator, What's that? I remember, I remember Googling it. I'm like, oh, just to make it stronger, which makes sense because then you could take less of the powder, you know, or to enhance the powder so it works better. And it I find, you know, this plant is so interesting. Kratom to me is so interesting because it affects everybody differently, you know, as far as dose, color, the whole thing, but also with potentiators, because I started like just jotting down every potentiator people talked about. And I, I got to the point where I pretty much in my 6 years being a cream consumer, I've experimented with pretty much everything that people talk about. And I tried the black seed oil.

24:49 It didn't, it didn't do anything for me. I was. It didn't do anything. For you and I know I know an interesting one. Some people swear by his pickle juice and I'm like, oh, that sounds interesting. Let me try that didn't didn't work. See, I wouldn't, I wouldn't be able to do the pickle juice. I like Pickles but I don't I feel like the juice. Is too much. I feel the same way but you know, I was always so eager to try these different things people talked about and just sounded interesting and I'm going to do it more than once. I'm not just a once and done and I I was like well, sure be interesting a pickle juice word, but I every time I tried it just nothing and turmeric. I know a lot of people swear by turmeric as as a potentiator for kratom. Didn't do anything for me but for me is orange juice.

25:33 Orange juice is the best 1 for me. Yeah, see, I hear a lot of people talk about how they like the orange juice, but it's just every time I add the kratom to the orange juice, it tastes like the orange peel. It's way too like weird and bitter tasted for me. I can't do it. Yeah, I do. So do you do the? Regular the regular powder kratom. I do toss and wash, but I do my toss and wash a little bit different. Yeah, I do my toss and wash a little bit different just because I guess I'm weird. And I'm one of the ones that like the taste of kratom. So I'll put my powder in first sometimes and hold it there. So like this bit makes it wet so it doesn't choke me. And then I'll and then I'll put some water in and swish it around and swallow it.

26:17 And then I've gotten a lot of like people looking at me all weird, especially locally. They're like, what are you doing? And like, well, I like the taste of it. I know not everybody likes the earthiness bitterness of it, but I guess I'm just one of the weird ones. There is a small percentage of people that say they like the taste. Jordans mom Jordan from New Hope, his mom, he's made, he's made videos of her saying Yum and she just does it dry and she says she loves the taste. It's so funny. She's the one. She's the one that I seen that video and I was like, well, I like the taste, so I'm gonna try that next time. And it was like, yeah, I see why she does it now that. Is so interesting. I remember the very first time I tried the powder I started with capsules but capsule because everybody said how bad the powder tasted so I was being a wuss.

27:02 I'm like, well, let's do capsules then. But the thing we, you don't realize when you're new to botanicals is it's just the, it's just the powder, it's the ground up leaf, which is not, it's not like, oh, you only need one or two capsules, like a pharmaceutical that's, you know, enhanced or concentrated. This is actually the leaf material. So you'll most likely need more than a few, which means you're getting all these capsule shells ingested, which for many us, many of us, it just makes us bloated and nauseous. And I don't think they always open up all the way. So you're not really getting all the powder. So I've always had bad experiences with capsules. So I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to just suck it up and try this nasty powder everybody talks about. And it, for me it was night and day. It worked way better by just, but I toss and wash. I, I remember watching videos, I'm like, Oh, I don't think I can do that.

27:53 So I just do the swamp water, which I was like, OK, that means I have to drink it. So that probably won't be easy to do. And the first time I drink and I'm like, I, I really thought I was going to puke. I'm like, wow, this is really hard to drink. This better work because I don't want to keep drinking this if it doesn't work. And once I figured out the dose and for me, for me, the green works best. But once I figured it all out, I'm like, OK, I will keep drinking this as gross as it is for me, because I'm getting amazing pain relief, like better than the the pharmaceuticals. And that to me was incredible. And and that was what I decided to become a big advocate. Yeah, that's how it was for me when I broke my arm and I found out that kratom worked 10 times better than the pharmaceuticals. I actually had my mom go back home and get because I was in the hospital with the broke arm.

28:44 I had my mom go back to our house. I was like, go get me some red and green Kratom and bring it back here because their pain meds are not doing anything. And like, you should have seen my mom, she shut. I think she thought she was like smuggling and drugs or something because she's like, here, take this. I'm like, it's legal mom, you're not going to get in trouble. But I I took my kratom and it was like night and day difference. Those pharmaceuticals didn't touch it. That that's how I felt with, with my kratom, you know, very early on. I'm like, why aren't more people talking about this like this? Maybe not everybody gets the same experience as I do, but even if somebody got a little bit of my experience to have something match or be better than the pharmaceuticals and you know, in pain management, you're usually not taking one pharmaceutical. You're taking a lot of different pharmaceuticals and in and then you develop other issues that they give you a whole nother pharmaceutical to add to what you're already taking. And I was able to stop Oxycontin, Percocet, gabapentin, muscle relaxers.

29:45 I was able to remove all of that from my day-to-day life with just a plan. So I knew I had to be an advocate and talk about this out loud to people because it's like, how did I not know this existed? Right. Yep, that's exactly my reaction when I found it back in 2017, I think it was. But here's the thing, another kratom story about how amazing that the kratom community can actually pull together and be to 2017. I got, I got clean and I had like a year clean. So back in 2018, they indicted me for some felony drug possession charges.

30:30 Well, they came and I did 30, yeah, 30 days in the county jail. The vendor that I was working for at the time made a jail Jailbird blend and advertised it for everyone and every, everybody bought it. All of the proceeds went to my bail and I had some leftover. I was able to put on a lawyer and I got bailed out. He bailed me out. He sent my mom the money. I was able to. I had at least a stack of everybody right in the judge on a character witness for me and how I've changed and how the how I've helped them through the recovery groups. And it was just when I was going through it, it was really, really heart touching because I didn't think, you know, they're just people on the Internet and you know, people that you goof off with and here and there, you know, but they really like they really pulled together and they helped me get it in lieu of conviction.

31:32 Mind you, that is where they if I completed my probation and all the things successfully, I wouldn't get charged with the felony. That's what an in lieu of conviction is. Well, later on, I didn't know that the rehab place that I was sentenced to go to started testing for kratom as well. I failed that drug test for Kratom and I got taken back to court and I got that in lieu of conviction taken away because of the Kratom. I was amazed at that and you should have seen me in that courtroom. I was trying to fight tooth and nail and that Judge did not like me, that he did not like my stance on kratom, but I tried to at least get my voice heard.

32:17 Wow, yeah, that is quite a story. So. So how did it play out? It played out. I still got charged with the felony, so I still have that on my record. But by the end of it, the probation office officer that I was on probation with, she I still talk to her through e-mail through this day. And she just, she uses me as a success story for all of her probationers now. And I've I've let her know like, look, her name's Gabby. I said, look, Gabby, I'm I'm still taking kratom. She said, but yeah, but I see that you're not back out on the streets. I don't see you have scars all over your arm. She's like, I can tell that it hasn't hasn't hindered you in a negative way.

32:59 So it was kind of cool to hear a probation officer say that. That's amazing. What a story. Tracy, Congrats to you on all the great things that you've gotten from from using this plan except for that part with the felony. I mean, I can't believe. They did that, but you've. Shown them that like you've shown them that this plan changes lives. Right. And at least as long as the one probation officer realizes it, I know she's going to tell her colleagues about it, you know, So it kind of, at least I was that one that they tried to make an example out of that, made an example out of herself and proved to him, you know, so I thought that was pretty. Kick ass that was that.

33:45 That's cool. And back to talk about how amazing the kratom community is. It it awesome story, you know, people coming together to help you when you were in that situation. And you know, we had kind of the same thing with Shana Brown that happened a few years ago where, you know, she buys kratom legally in Florida, crosses an imaginary state line into Alabama. They pull her over, they see kratom in her car and they throw her in jail and she spent a good eight or nine months in jail. They started her bail at $1,000,000 for having. Yeah, and that's ridiculous. That's ridiculous. I could see if she was like a known drug dealer or something like that, but come on with some freaking kratom.

34:27 That's ridiculous. Right, right. And it was helping her clean up her life and get herself together. And what's wild is similar to your story, advocates in the community heard about her situation and started spreading information awareness on social media. We all jumped on it and start. We talked about it constantly. We had hashtags on social media talking about it. And when a GoFundMe was started, we raised all this money. It was hard in the beginning because we're like, how are we going to raise enough to get her out of jail with $1,000,000 bond? But they slowly, they slowly reduced the bond. It went from like a million to like I think 250,000 finally got down to 75,000. I mean, took a long time, but we raised collectively in the community, raised money and got her an attorney and got her out of jail.

35:18 But it's been 2 years since the whole thing happened. It's still hanging over her. It's not done. They just haven't done anything else with her case. Oh, that's ridiculous that it's still even hanging over her head. Yeah, because, you know, it's a felony charge. And she still faces, I think it was 10 to life, was it, or 10 year? I don't remember what the exact, but yeah. But but it's amazing how our community came together. She had no idea while she was in jail that we're all trying to help her and raise money to do this. So she was quite surprised when all of this happened. And she's like, Oh my God, people heard about me and they want to help me. And it just shows how compassionate our community is. That's exactly it.

36:02 When the when the kratom community really wants to pull it pull together and quit being divided, we can we can really do some amazing things. Absolutely. I love it. You know, I'm loving this conversation. I mean, we're covering so many different topics. Is is there anything we haven't talked about yet that you want to make sure we cover in this discussion? I'm kind of doing this one on the fly. So I'm I'm kind of just going with the flow at this one that's. What makes the conversation great? Well, let me ask you, I mean, we're not talking about like, you know, Kram company you work for, but do you do you talk to a lot of just fellow Kratom consumers and sharing information or like are you involved like in just talking to people? Yeah, I'll talk to a different few. It's I call them the Ogs, The one that I met like when I very first started the Facebook groups, I'll talk to like people like that, like Stephanie Sue, love her to death. I'll talk to her on almost a daily basis. Amanda Rainer, she's pretty, pretty down to earth. I like her.

37:13 Jen, Jen and Dylan, you got to love them. They do a lot lot to help fight for the right of kratom. They sure do that. All the people you're listing are like super kratom advocates and very passionate about what they do. Yeah, yeah, that's that's great. Yeah, I know them all. And yeah, it's it's it's great connecting with people like ourselves that are as passionate as we are and just trying to help people with understanding what kratom is and how we can be life changing for them. Are you still in any of these Facebook groups that that you started with? Are you still?

37:53 I know some of them have gone away. You know Facebook. A lot of, yeah, a lot of them has been taken away, but they're still still a few of them. I would say at least 2 that's still from back in the day. But they rarely get posted. And I feel like all of the new ones, kind of that's where all the all the stuff is now. All the new ones, all the ones that I joined back in the day, was like one of them was botanical bitches. I don't think that one's up and running no more. There's a few of them. I can't remember the name right now, but. Yeah, the big one that I was in when I started in 2019, I know they had to change the name a few times. It's still there, but you people don't really post anymore. But when I first joined it, so much activity, so many posts. I think it was a period where where you could talk about kratom more freely on Facebook.

38:45 I know it's like this up and down thing where you can talk about it, then you can't say the word anymore. You got to say T or something else. Then Facebook starts censoring and deleting accounts and then they go back to let people do it again. It's crazy. And that's actually one of the reasons why I started my own private online community, which anybody can come join. You're free to join anybody in our community. Kratom realtalk.com because of all the censorship that we face, it can be tough at times. You know, TikTok is always censoring our content. I'm I'm on their watch list right now. They they keep giving me strikes and deleting my videos. I'm worried they're going to delete my account and it won't be the first time they've done it before.

39:27 But a couple years ago, what I decided to do is I'm still on social media and I still advocate there, but I thought, let me start a separate place that I get to have the control. So it's not a social media platform, it's a play. It's a community I can build. I pay for it to have access so that I can control it. But it's free for I have it. So it's free for anybody wants to join. So Kratom realtalk.com. So anybody listening is interested. It's nice to have a place we can go to talk about kratom and not worry about getting in trouble. Where we don't have to watch our language like it's a cuss word or something, which that always kills me because like, whatever happened to free speech? Exactly.

40:08 That's the part that always stirs me for the loop. I'm like, what happened to free speech? We're allowed to say what we're allowed to say. I didn't threaten anybody, you know? Yeah, because on TikTok whenever I get in trouble, this like you're doing drug talk. I'm thinking what how's this drug talk? You know, it's it's not illegal. I'm sharing my personal experience. I'm not showing it or telling people how to use it. I'm not acting like I'm a medical professional. I'm just sharing my personal experience. Well, and then you're allowed to talk about Starbucks, aren't you? You're allowed to say coffee. That's like the same thing. That's, that's kind of how I like when people ask me about it, That's exactly how I explain it. I'm like, instead of having your morning cup of coffee, you'll have a morning cup of Kratom tea and you'll get your energy from that.

40:58 It's usually less jitters, more focus. So that's kind of, that's how I explained it to my mom when she first found out I was taking it. What's your mom think of it when you first talked to her about it? When I first talked to her about it, I mean, I understand where she was coming from because I was still coming off the heroin and all the bad crap and I put her through the loop. So I mean, I can understand where she was a little bit taken back by it at first. But the first year of me taking it and how she's seen, I didn't go back out to the streets. I wasn't putting a needle in my arm. I wasn't hanging out with shady characters, you know, the more I stayed home while I was taking it and like helping her with the garden or helping mow grass or helping her go to the grocery store or something like that, she kind of like it opened her eyes over time. Like wow, OK, this isn't something that I need to worry about.

41:51 That is awesome that that's so great. And I, I think a lot of people have stories like that too, where where their loved ones can see how it's helping them compared to when they were using. Yep, Yep. And David, my I'm just going to call my baby's dad, but he I technically we're not married, but I call my husband. But he he's even seen because he used, we've known each other for I would say 20 years now, back in our younger days. He's seen me before the addiction. He's seen me while I was addicted and then he's seen me after the addiction, how I found kratom and stuff. And he's like Tracy.

42:31 That's night and day. He said I'll always go to bat for kratom. He said not the seven O that you tell me not to go to bat for. He's like, but the regular kratom, I will go to bat for that. I said good. Every petition I send you, you better sign it. That's great. I think we need to start getting stories from loved ones sharing, like what they've seen, you know? Yes, I would love to hear some of the other people that don't take it. I would love to hear their opinion on it, how it's helped their loved one. I think I need to do an episode like that, maybe get a hit a couple of people to come share as the loved one who does not consume kratom but have seen the before, during and after.

43:13 Yeah, I think that would be real cool. Yeah, that would, that would be interesting. I'll get back to you on that because I would love to see, you know, hear that kind of information. I think a lot of people would love to hear stories like that for sure. Before I forget about it, I even. That's how much Kratoms helped me. That's my silver date here. Let's get some light on it. So that's your tattoo, in case anybody's listening to the audio version. So that's a point. That's my tattoo. Yeah. Kratom leaf. Yep. It's a kratom leaf with a kratom pod. One of the. There we go. You can see it now. That is awesome Tracy. I have a kratom tattoo also, but yours is way cooler from from the right here on my it's it's just a little right here. It's it's small, but it's you know, from the logo of the pine task.

44:07 It's just a leaf outline. I ran out of room, so I had like a little spot right there. I put it there, but that's awesome. I I love your tattoo and that's like a great daily reminder of your journey. Well, it's, it's right on my front arm, which I got it right here because I that's where I used to shoot up at. And if you look real closely, you can see the scar and the indentation over it. But it's kind of like, in my mind, it was the Kratom as a Band-Aid. Like here I got you now, don't look at it. Wow, Tracy, that's that's powerful. Right. That's really powerful. Thank you for sharing that. I'm I'm so glad. No problem. Anybody, anybody's listening to the audio version, go over to YouTube real quick because you got to see that that that's, that's, that's great, Tracy.

44:56 I love it. We'll start wrapping up this amazing conversation, but I want to go back for a moment back to the advocacy. You know, we're talking about social media and especially like how Facebook and TikTok is so big with censorship are where do you feel like you're able to talk about kratom more freely? To be honest, I feel like it used to be TikTok, but now, now that they're censoring stuff too, I don't feel like there's anywhere for freely to talk about it other than maybe maybe discord And then the the school app I'm in, I'm in the kratom real talk. So I feel I don't actually have to like misspell the word or just put a leaf for it, you know.

45:39 So I would definitely say Discord or, or the school app. You can definitely talk about it a little bit more freely there. It's so nice to be able to do that every time I get on TikTok. It's so frustrating to have to spell it a different way and just be careful how we present ourselves. Yep, yeah, I don't feel like we should have to dance around it. Exactly, exactly. I mean back to like you were saying earlier, First Amendment. I mean, we have to we. What's lamb to free speech? Right, exactly. Yeah, well, I want to wrap up with one last question for you. So knowing everything you know about kratom now and you, you, you know, you go all the way back 2017, which is a long time, what advice would you give somebody who's just starting on their journey with kratom? Whoever's just starting on their journey definitely don't even think about trying the seven O products. Just totally act like they don't exist. Do regular kratom powder first to make sure how your body is going to react to it.

46:41 Stay hydrated and if you don't have to take it every day for a certain ailment, take breaks. That's excellent advice. Yeah, it's been great. Tracy, thank you so much for hanging out and spending time and sharing your incredible story with our community. Yeah, no problem. Thanks for having me on. It was a pleasure to do this. That was I was excited about it all morning. Awesome. Thank you.