Ep 74: Stephanie’s Journey: Finding Freedom from Addiction and Pain with Kratom

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The first time that I kind of
brought kratom into the picture

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and showed my family about it.
So I actually put the Kratoms in

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like 1g capsules.
So I capsulate themselves myself

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because it's a little bit
cheaper that way.

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So I'd be sitting there on my
bed making capsules and stuff

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and they're like, what are you
doing?

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You know, that worried curiosity
of the parents with the past

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addiction problem child and I,
you know, just sat down with

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them and I told them everything
about it and they were like, oh

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wow, you know, we're on board
with this.

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You know, whatever is going to
help you with, you know, staying

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clean and you do seem a lot
better on this product.

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So it was just kind of that
first initial barrier of being

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like, what are you doing with
this weird green powder stuff to

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just educating them.
And now they they see me making

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my capsules every day and
they're like, oh, hey, what's

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up?
Doesn't even bother them

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anymore.
So I'm here with Stephanie who's

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going to share her Kratom
journey.

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So Stephanie, I love that I've
been meeting so many cool people

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on social media like yourself
and that you're eager to come on

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the podcast and and Share your
story about Kratom.

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So welcome to the podcast.
Absolutely, I'm happy to be

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here.
So let's start off with you

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telling us a little bit about
yourself and life before kratom.

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So in my high school years,
around 2008, on New Year's Eve,

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I was at my cousin's house and
we went horseback riding and I

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proceeded to fall off of that
horse and broke a piece of my

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pelvis and I got a grade 3
concussion.

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So that kind of set me up for
lifelong back pain, which I was

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dealing with.
It's gotten progressively worse

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over the years, as injuries do.
But that kind of started my

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unfortunate journey into, you
know, drugs and alcohol kind of

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stuff.
But in the throes of my

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addiction, I obviously was
wanting to stop everything.

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So I was looking into some stuff
and I found kratom.

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So I started looking into it and
saw a lot of successful stories,

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you know, kind of in my same
position.

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So I decided to give it a shot
and it actually got me off of

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opiates the first time without
having to go into a facility.

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My story journey was kind of up
and down, unfortunately.

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Went back to you and got back
out of it once again with the

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kratom and I've been sticking
with it since then.

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It's been on and off for 9 years
now and it's the only thing that

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really, you know, seems to do
the trick for the lower back

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pain.
You know, ibuprofen and Advil

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just don't cut it after a couple
of years, right?

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You get so used to it.
But the the kratom actually did

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more than just help with my
pain, you know, it helped my

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mood.
It helped with my anxiety.

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It had a lot of different things
that were really beneficial to

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me.
That's awesome.

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Do you remember what it was
about like when you first heard

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about?
Like, do you remember where you

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heard about kratom?
I mean, you know, some people

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say they just, you know, were at
a smoke shop and they saw it

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there or a friend of a friend.
Do you remember like what it was

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where you first heard about it?
I was actually doing some

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research on like ret subreddits
for like help with kicking

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addiction, stuff like that, and
it just kept getting brought up

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more and more and more.
So I decided to do my own

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research into it and I was like
hey, I should give this a shot

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and I'm glad I did.
That's great.

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And and so this has been nine
years.

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So that would have been what
2016 about when you?

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Yeah, around there.
Learned about it and that was

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back when the DEA was trying to
schedule it into a schedule one

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narcotic where it wouldn't have
been available.

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It would have been banned
nationwide.

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And not only that, with schedule
one, they can't research it.

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Like it could have been like
devastating for for so many

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people.
It definitely could have, and

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I'm glad that that didn't go
through.

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I know in a couple places in the
country now, it is getting, you

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know, banned and scheduled.
And it's sad to see, you know,

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and I can kind of chalk it up to
maybe these other products that

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claim to be kratom, like the
seven OHS, like those are

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causing a lot of issues right
now.

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I know for the kratom community
and for people who are trying to

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actually try kratom and they're
getting sucked into this.

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Yeah, it it's a real shame
because people that don't really

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like, like when you were first
researching kratom, you're

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probably just reading
information, you're going by

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what people are saying and, and,
and articles you're reading.

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And these days in 2025, you got
kratom leaf powder, you got

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kratom extracts, you got 7.
OH, and they're all different.

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Yeah.
And they act differently, but

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people just think Kratom is
kratom is kratom.

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Like it's, it's I feel like all
I'm doing these days as an

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advocate is educating, you know,
I'm just educating people that

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there's three different types of
kratom.

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And actually seven O 8 is not
even I mean really, technically

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it is.
They they shouldn't even be

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calling it Kratom.
It should Malcolm Martin is

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kratom, but there's just so much
confusion.

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It seems like in 2016 was a
simpler time.

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It was just probably all you saw
was leaf powder, right?

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Yep, and now you've got all of
the different strains now coming

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out.
I find that I work best with

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like a green strain, like for
the morning, afternoon.

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And then I stick with the red
strains at night 'cause they're

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a bit more, I wouldn't say like
potent, potent, but they have a

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lot more relaxation benefits to
them.

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But learning about all these
different strains, it was coming

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on a different period.
The more I got into it, the more

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I started to learn about and the
more products that became

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available to people.
Yeah.

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And when, what, what?
When you did your research

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initially, what was it about the
research that made you decide to

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just go for it and try it?
Pretty much all of the success

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stories with drug addiction and
people using that to get off of,

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you know, opiates and stuff,
that's what really sold it for

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me because I was at such a point
in my life where I just hated

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what was going on and just
needed to be off of what I was

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on.
But with all the success stories

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that I was seeing, I was like,
yeah, I'll give this a shot.

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That's, that's so great to hear.
Now, you know, I come from the

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chronic pain community, which
is, you know, quite a bit

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different from from those that
come from addiction.

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And I mean, I'll admit, like I
didn't really know much about

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addiction.
I wasn't really around people

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that had issues.
But when I lost access to my

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pain, you know, through pain
management, lost access to the

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meds, Discover Kratom, which was
wild that I found it when I did

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the first Facebook group I found
to join because I want, even

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though I was going to go ahead
and try it, I was still doing a

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lot of research and learning.
I found a Facebook group.

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It was primarily people using
Kratom for addiction, to get out

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of addiction.
And at first I'm like, I

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remember looking at this group
going, wow, they're very

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informative talking all about
kratom.

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I think I'm going to learn a lot
here.

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But then when they would talk of
stories of addiction, I was

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like, I don't know much about
this, but I, I wanted to learn.

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And I tell you what, it was very
eye opening because for those of

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us that come from the pain side
that don't know a lot.

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And I know a lot of people in
the chronic pain community blame

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the people with addictions for
why we can't get our meds like

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we used to that, you know, this
whole opiate crisis thing.

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And I know a lot of people do a
lot of finger pointing.

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And I felt like I got a whole
education by being in this

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Facebook group.
And I learned about how so many

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people were sharing, just
pouring out their hearts and

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saying, I don't want to be an
addiction.

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I don't want to be doing this.
I want to get out of it.

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And there's this plant that can
change that.

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And then I always loved when
people would show before and

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after photos, and they would
show, you know, photos of what

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they looked like, an addiction
photo of how they look like now

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with kratom.
And it was just amazing.

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And I think more people in the
pain community need to see this

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because I think it's incredibly
eye opening to see that so many

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people that suffer with that are
desperately want to stop and,

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and they're looking for a way to
stop and how amazing that a

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plant can can be so beneficial
to people.

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Yeah, I feel like I kind of came
from both sides of the community

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because I started using the
opiates because of the back

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injury.
So it was a way to manage my own

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chronic pain without having to
go through the issues of, like,

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a doctor and those kind of
things.

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But it just kind of spiraled out
of control, which unfortunately

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happens with a lot of people
using opiates.

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They start using it for, you
know, pain management, and then

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it doesn't work, and then you
take your different avenues.

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But mine was primarily being
used because of that, so being

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able to find kratom at that
point.

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So it's going to help with both
aspects, right?

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That was just like a complete
lifesaver for me other than

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having to go deal with more
doctors, spine doctors, back

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doctors, all that stuff, and
jumping through the hoops

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because of the opiate epidemic.
So that's why I'm happy that I

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found this since it is widely
available right now for the

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majority of the country.
You know, I want it to stay that

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way because it is helping so
many different communities.

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It it really is.
And it's so many people that

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find immense help with it for
such a variety of things, not

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just for pain, not just from
addiction.

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Great when it when it takes care
of everything.

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Like in your case, because I
can't, I mean, you've been

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suffering with chronic pain
since a young age.

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I mean, that's got to be really
tough.

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I can't even imagine.
I mean, I've been suffering with

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my chronic pain for for a long
time, but I, I was a bit older

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when it started that when all
that started.

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But when I hear about people
like being really young and and

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having to live with chronic
pain, I just, I just really feel

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for y'all.
And it's great that you found a

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pain that just helped helped.
I mean, I found a leaf that

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helps you with everything.
It's just phenomenal.

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And did did you find other great
uses for it?

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Because so many people I've
talked to on this podcast will

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say things like, you know, I
used it for pain or I use it for

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addiction or for both.
And then they'll say, and I

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realized I don't crave alcohol
anymore.

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It wasn't like it was front of
mine, but they're realizing like

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I have beer in the fridge that I
haven't touched in a month.

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And I was like, I don't know
what, what, what's going on with

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me?
I never do that, you know, just

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little things like that.
Or they'll say, you know, I, I

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don't feel anxious or I'm don't
have any depression that I

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suffer from from time to time.
It's really amazing how this

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plant just helps so many things.
Have you found other things that

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has helped you with?
Yeah, definitely the anxiety and

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the depression, You know, I was
able to come off of one of my

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medications because it was
helping so much in just those

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aspects, which is, you know, it
has multiple uses.

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And I love to hear those other
stories, you know, 'cause it

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helped with my anxiety and my
depression as well as my chronic

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pain, which kind of go hand in
hand with each other when you're

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dealing with chronic pain.
But you know, being able to come

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off of a medication was nice.
Oh yeah, I'm sure.

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I mean, I've had people on here
that been on lots of medications

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and they said use Kratom and I
got off.

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I got off of all these meds.
I did too.

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I mean, mine were minor, you
know, for the pain.

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So I mean, I was on two
different opiates.

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Usually at any given time, it'd
be two, two, usually two

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different.
I always had a high, I kept

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building tolerance with opiates,
so I was constantly having to

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rotate them.
Me and my doctor was a constant

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dance of like, OK, I'm at the
I've been at the Max of this

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00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,920
particular 1 long enough that
it's not working anymore and

223
00:12:44,920 --> 00:12:46,360
we'd have to go to a different
one.

224
00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:50,040
And then it was just, oh, I
don't have that with Kratom.

225
00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,040
You know, I have never had a
tolerance issue with kratom and

226
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:55,120
I've taken it every day for over
six years.

227
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,560
I haven't either.
I think maybe using the

228
00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:04,560
different strains helps because
the vendor that I go through, I

229
00:13:04,560 --> 00:13:08,720
go through Calf's Botanicals,
I'll make sure that I don't buy

230
00:13:08,720 --> 00:13:11,400
like the same red strain every
single time.

231
00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:16,040
So I find that changing out the
different not necessarily the

232
00:13:16,040 --> 00:13:20,640
types of strains, but like like
Malaysia versus like Red

233
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:24,160
Elephant for red kind of things,
if I don't stay on the same

234
00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:27,640
exact one every time, then I
don't find that I build up any

235
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:31,160
type of tolerance issue.
That's a really smart strategy.

236
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:34,120
So when I was doing my research
in the beginning, some people

237
00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,200
were talking about that like
rotating strains and colors are

238
00:13:37,200 --> 00:13:40,800
just, you know, and vendors.
And I'm like, well, that sounds

239
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,080
interesting.
And I say, and after coming from

240
00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,960
years of always having tolerance
issues with the meds, I'm like,

241
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,280
I don't want to have tolerance
issues with this because I was a

242
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,480
pain in the butt to deal with.
So from the start of my kratom

243
00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:57,680
journey, I just would constantly
rotate vendors and strains and

244
00:13:58,280 --> 00:13:59,680
greens are only ones that work
on me.

245
00:13:59,680 --> 00:14:02,840
The others don't.
So I stick with greens, but I'll

246
00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,680
do the same thing as you.
I'll do different strains of it.

247
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,320
And I found that super greens
work really well on me.

248
00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,880
So then I remember in the
beginning I was like, oh, these

249
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:13,840
super greens and green elephants
work really good.

250
00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:16,880
So let me try that from other
vendors as well.

251
00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:19,800
And it was just really
interesting to see like what

252
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,760
worked best for me.
But then what's so interesting

253
00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:25,640
is it when people hear your
story, they're like, oh, I'm

254
00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:28,160
going to go try that too.
And you know, I tell me what

255
00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,160
you're taking and I'll just go
by the same.

256
00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:32,760
I'm always telling people it
affects everybody differently.

257
00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,680
You might not get the same
experience that I get or

258
00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:37,800
somebody else, you know, social
media saying I have degenerative

259
00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,600
disc disease.
I have the same thing as you.

260
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,560
I have degenerative disc
disease.

261
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,240
So what should I take?
I'm like, you won't know until

262
00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:47,240
you try.
You got to just experiment.

263
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,000
Did it take you a while with
your experimenting to find that

264
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:54,560
green was best for you?
Yeah, I played around with like

265
00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,480
the straight white strains and I
also tried some of the yellow

266
00:14:58,480 --> 00:15:04,240
strains, but they were more like
gave me more energy than they

267
00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,040
did with the pain relief.
So the greens work really well

268
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,960
for me during the day because
they kind of balance, you know,

269
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:15,160
that pain relief with, you know,
some energy.

270
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:21,320
It's not as much as like a white
strain, but I also gravitated

271
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,480
towards, you know, the red
strains for like bedtime

272
00:15:24,480 --> 00:15:27,200
because, you know, they have
different properties and stuff

273
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:30,320
and the Reds are more chill
while you've got your whites and

274
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,440
your yellows and your greens for
like your daytime kind of

275
00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:36,560
activities.
But I found that green works

276
00:15:36,560 --> 00:15:41,520
best for my lifestyle.
Yeah, it's such a the plan

277
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:43,800
effects everybody differently,
such an individualized

278
00:15:43,800 --> 00:15:49,200
experience from person to person
with which color, strain, dose.

279
00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,360
I mean, dose can take a while to
figure out too.

280
00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:54,320
It took me a little bit of time
to work that out, you know, to

281
00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:56,800
figure out like, what's that
right amount for you?

282
00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,760
And I find it interesting when
people are sharing their stories

283
00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,000
because I'm always eager to
learn, like what kind do you

284
00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:06,280
take and how much and how often
and what word for me is to stay

285
00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,360
on the schedule.
If I just once I found what

286
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,560
worked, if I just take it every,
I can go six hours and stay

287
00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:15,280
relatively pain free.
So it wears off.

288
00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,600
And then I just with the meds,
the opiates, I was having to

289
00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:19,840
take them like every three
hours.

290
00:16:19,840 --> 00:16:22,800
That was really bad.
I was a very high processor, You

291
00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,600
know, they, they went through me
very, I even had the, the

292
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:30,520
pharmacogenetic test to to show
that like, you know, that that

293
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,880
my body, well, I had a really
smart pain management doctor.

294
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:38,200
He thought of everything, you
know, because it protects him,

295
00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,240
you know, yeah.
And it showed that I processed

296
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:46,080
them quickly and it you know, so
because, you know, those doctors

297
00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,920
get audited and, and that's why
they're so scared to prescribe

298
00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:53,000
because you know, if you're
prescribing high doses, they go

299
00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:55,560
after doctors that do that.
But then you get somebody like

300
00:16:55,560 --> 00:17:00,440
me where the testing shows that
I need high doses because they

301
00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:02,040
go right through my body so
fast.

302
00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,720
I mean, look at one point I did
the fentanyl patch and that's

303
00:17:05,720 --> 00:17:13,200
normally 72 hour patch, right?
The fentanyl patch and the first

304
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,960
time I did it, I could barely go
40.

305
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:17,599
I couldn't I couldn't get to 48
hours.

306
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:22,599
I think it's like 42 hours.
And yeah, yeah, yeah.

307
00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,839
And the doctor's like, OK,
because we've done that testing

308
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:28,960
and it shows that I process
quickly.

309
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:32,080
Like he was able to write the
script so I could take it.

310
00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:35,360
You know, I just change it out
every two days and and take meds

311
00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:39,840
for breakthrough in between.
And but so quickly I build a

312
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,240
tolerance to the lowest fentanyl
patch and there's only, I don't

313
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,640
know if it's the same now, but
back this would have been like

314
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,840
2012.
There were three different dose

315
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:50,520
levels.
And so we started the lowest

316
00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:52,760
very quickly.
We had to go the next one.

317
00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,600
And then very quickly after that
is like you stopped working.

318
00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:01,000
I said, I said, look, I'm too
young for us to be going to that

319
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:02,760
highest one because then where
do you go from?

320
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:06,000
There.
And fentanyl, fentanyl could

321
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:10,080
give you really great pain
relief, you know, pharmaceutical

322
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,480
fentanyl, but it's a lot
stronger than some of the meds.

323
00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,720
And if like you're already
taking the highest, like, yeah,

324
00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:21,400
I so I just was like, no, let's
just go back to the other meds

325
00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,200
and we'll figure this out.
And, and looking back that that

326
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,240
was tough going through all that
because it's always something.

327
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:33,280
And for me now, six years, I can
use a leaf.

328
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,640
Exactly.
I kind of went through something

329
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,760
like that.
So I had gastric bypass when I

330
00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:45,040
was 18 and from that it caused a
malabsorption issue.

331
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,560
So and it also made things go
through my body incredibly

332
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,200
quickly.
So they warned people not to

333
00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:55,920
like drink a lot afterwards
because I could take like a shot

334
00:18:55,920 --> 00:18:58,680
of alcohol and be like
completely gone, but it would

335
00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,080
only last 20 minutes.
So I found that hard to like

336
00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:07,120
keep up with with the drug
addiction as well because my

337
00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:11,200
body was processing everything
so fast that I got up to like

338
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:16,760
such a crazy level of addiction
that was not manageable at all.

339
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:20,680
But it wasn't as bad as other
people's because I absorbed

340
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:22,680
things differently with my body
too.

341
00:19:22,960 --> 00:19:26,800
So I was fighting up against
that too, with everything else.

342
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:32,160
Yeah, well, your story is very
interesting.

343
00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,200
I'm sure there's some people
listening that are like, can

344
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,760
relate to everything you're
saying.

345
00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:39,600
And and they're now they're
feeling less alone in their

346
00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,360
journey, which is so awesome.
So you started kratom.

347
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,160
So you said you started nine
years ago, but it's been off and

348
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:47,640
on.
So tell us a little bit more

349
00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:51,480
about that, like whatever you're
comfortable sharing.

350
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:57,440
So the only off and on was when
I kind of went back to using

351
00:19:58,000 --> 00:20:02,840
which was like.
A 3-4 months stent, probably

352
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,400
like a year or two after I
initially found kratom and then

353
00:20:06,400 --> 00:20:09,720
I went right back to it.
So since then it's been a

354
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:12,040
consistent thing, like a daily
thing.

355
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:16,800
But there was just kind of that
one time lapse that happened and

356
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,080
then I was like, I'm going to go
back to what was actually

357
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:22,400
working without all of this
happening again.

358
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:26,560
So I've been taking it
consistently probably for like a

359
00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:31,840
good like 7 years straight now.
That's great.

360
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,560
Have have your friends and
family like seen the difference

361
00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,920
like before and after with this?
Absolutely.

362
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,520
The first time that I kind of
brought kratom into the picture

363
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:49,840
and showed my family about it.
So I actually put the Kratoms in

364
00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:54,040
like 1G capsules, so I capsulate
themselves myself because it's a

365
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:58,160
little bit cheaper that way.
So I'd be sitting there on my

366
00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:00,400
bed making capsules of stuff and
they're like, what are you

367
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:04,080
doing?
You know, that worried curiosity

368
00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,720
of the parents with the past
addiction problem child.

369
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,280
And I, you know, just sat down
with them and I told them

370
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:14,400
everything about it.
And they were like, oh wow, you

371
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:17,960
know, we're on board with this.
You know, whatever is going to

372
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:19,760
help you with, you know, staying
clean.

373
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,280
And you do seem a lot better on
this product.

374
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:27,440
So it was just kind of that
first initial barrier of being

375
00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,840
like, what are you doing with
this weird green powder stuff to

376
00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:35,120
just educating them.
And now they they see me making

377
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:37,520
my capsules every day and
they're like, oh, hey, what's

378
00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:39,560
up?
Doesn't even bother them

379
00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:41,800
anymore.
I love that.

380
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,960
That is a great story.
That is awesome.

381
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,520
You know, some people will say,
well, my family's not

382
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:50,080
supportive.
They think it's a drug.

383
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:54,600
They hear negative things in the
media about it and then others

384
00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:58,840
see how well their loved one is
doing and can see that this is a

385
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:00,640
good thing.
I mean, that's what I went

386
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:06,120
through as well.
You know, my mom was not very

387
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:08,640
thrilled that I was in pain
management taking all that to

388
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,800
the point that one time because
she'd go, she called them drugs.

389
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:13,560
I said, look, I suffer.
You know, people that don't

390
00:22:13,560 --> 00:22:15,640
understand chronic pain cannot
relate.

391
00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:18,440
And I just didn't like her
attitude about it.

392
00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:22,200
So finally, one time I just got
so tired of her negativity.

393
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,760
I said, look, I'm taking you
with me to the appointment to go

394
00:22:24,760 --> 00:22:26,680
to the pain management doctor.
I want you to see what I go

395
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:28,760
through.
You know, you need a better

396
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,360
understanding of what this at
this.

397
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:33,240
And it helped tremendously for
her to get a better idea and to

398
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:36,120
see that I was not abusing.
It's just to give me quality of

399
00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:41,160
life and then yours go by.
And then I ended up going home

400
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,360
to take care of her.
She, you know, towards the end

401
00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:46,520
of her life.
And so I moved in to take care

402
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,000
of her.
And that was when I lost my

403
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,600
access to the meds.
It was my dad had just passed

404
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:52,880
away suddenly.
I moved back home and like

405
00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:53,920
somebody had to take care of my
mom.

406
00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:55,080
So I moved in to take care of
her.

407
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:58,360
And literally this would have
been probably just a few months

408
00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:02,240
later, a month or two later is
when I, I lost my access.

409
00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:05,400
I'm like, Oh my God, Well, I
knew my mom would be happy that

410
00:23:05,560 --> 00:23:07,200
I wasn't going to be taking
opiates anymore.

411
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,760
But I found kratom and I
remember telling her about it

412
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:13,800
and she she's kind of surprised
like a leaf.

413
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,880
And I was just so impressed and
amazed.

414
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,600
And so she was really excited my
new Kratom journey and my

415
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:25,160
friends and family could see
like, like, wow, here she went

416
00:23:25,160 --> 00:23:28,960
from taking all these narcotics,
even though the narcotics I

417
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,160
could, if I didn't tell people
they had no idea what I was

418
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:33,840
taking because I didn't go
around telling everybody.

419
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,200
Only people close to me knew
what I was taking.

420
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:41,000
But like, oh, on any given,
yeah, on, on a day-to-day basis,

421
00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,600
it was Oxycontin, Percocet,
gabapentin, muscle relaxers,

422
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,840
lots of it every day.
You cannot I, I, they didn't

423
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,960
affect me in any negative way.
I could still function.

424
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:53,680
I could drive, I can work, I can
do everything.

425
00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:58,320
So people had no idea, but those
that didn't did know, even

426
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,000
though they saw it didn't really
affect me negatively still when

427
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,680
you know somebody close to you
is taking all that.

428
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,560
But then like instead I'm
drinking this tea now and.

429
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,280
People.
Like blown away.

430
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:13,240
And they can see that I'm doing
actually not just as well.

431
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:18,640
I was doing better because I
have less pain and it's, it was

432
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,320
great getting that support.
But sadly, there are plenty of

433
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,120
people that say they get no
support or or they're afraid to

434
00:24:24,120 --> 00:24:26,880
tell their loved ones, you know,
which is really sad.

435
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:29,640
It's really hard when that
happens.

436
00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:33,120
Well, there's so much negative
publicity and that doesn't help.

437
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,480
Doesn't help at all.
Like if people actually took the

438
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:40,720
time to do their research then
they would understand a little

439
00:24:40,720 --> 00:24:42,840
bit better.
Like when I told my dad, he's a

440
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:47,000
big researcher, so he like drove
head first into learning all

441
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:48,840
about it.
And, you know, he was completely

442
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:51,920
on board.
But you have all the negative

443
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:55,960
publicity now and then people
lumping in the seven OH stuff

444
00:24:55,960 --> 00:24:59,160
with it.
And now everybody is thinking

445
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:02,680
these horrible things with all
the mislabeled products and

446
00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:06,840
everything, that it's like an
uphill battle right now trying

447
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,400
to get people to understand what
it actually is and what it does.

448
00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:13,360
Absolutely.
Because, yeah, you tell your

449
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,960
family and loved ones you.
I see you used kratom.

450
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:18,760
But now with all the negative
publicity in the news and this

451
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,560
association with Seven OH, and
kratom, I'm sure you've had

452
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,880
people say the stuff on the
news.

453
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:25,920
Is that what you're taking, what
they're talking about?

454
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:27,240
The news that they're going to
win?

455
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,280
Yeah, my, my grandma and my mom
have said that a couple of times

456
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:33,800
and I've had to give them the
whole breakdown on everything.

457
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:36,520
But they've seen me use it for
years, and they know that half

458
00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:39,040
the stuff that people are
reporting on just isn't the

459
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,400
truth.
So they're kind of using their

460
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,360
own, you know, eyes and their
experience with me to kind of

461
00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:49,640
direct how they're feeling.
But if they have questions, you

462
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:51,800
know I'm happy to answer them
for them.

463
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,760
It's great that you're, you're
such an advocate for the plan

464
00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,000
and helping to educate those
around you.

465
00:25:58,000 --> 00:25:59,880
I love that.
I think that's awesome.

466
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:03,800
And then, you know, we FDA just
came out recently and did the

467
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,360
big press conference talking
about 7 OH, and how they're

468
00:26:07,360 --> 00:26:11,680
recommending the DEA schedule it
because there's been no

469
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,520
regulation with it.
And they even said we're not

470
00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:19,440
targeting leaf kratom.
So I know that's been a relief

471
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,440
for many of us.
What were your thoughts when you

472
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,840
heard about that?
I mean, was that I feel like

473
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:27,840
this is amazing news that, you
know, they're targeting the 708.

474
00:26:28,160 --> 00:26:30,240
They're leaving.
He fed us as they're leaving

475
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:32,480
kratom powder alone.
But some people in the community

476
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,480
are like, no, they're still
going to target us.

477
00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:38,040
I feel like we're safe.
I sure hope we're safe.

478
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:40,400
It sounds like we're safe that
they're going to just target

479
00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:45,480
those products because I know if
they turn around and start to

480
00:26:45,960 --> 00:26:50,760
schedule the actual kratom, a
lot of people are going to have

481
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:54,320
a really, really hard time
because, you know, this was the

482
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:58,200
only product that worked for me,
you know, that got me through

483
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,320
all of my stuff.
I would hate to have to bounce

484
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,880
back into something that's way
more detrimental than the plant.

485
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:08,360
Well, and for those, you know,
you and I that suffer from

486
00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:12,720
chronic pain, we have to take
something to like, like you were

487
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:15,840
saying earlier, you know that
the over the counter stuff, I,

488
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:20,200
I, I before I look, when I went
to pain management, I did not do

489
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,040
it lightly.
I know a lot of people don't go

490
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,920
into that lightly because I
spent like a year of just trying

491
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:27,680
to deal with my chronic pain
with Tylenol.

492
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,120
And you can only do that for so
much.

493
00:27:30,120 --> 00:27:33,600
Plus large quantities of Tylenol
is bad for you.

494
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,680
This isn't, I mean, you can you,
you could possibly have to get a

495
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:40,440
liver transplant.
I mean, there are people that

496
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,760
have to go get their liver
transplant because of the amount

497
00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:47,240
of acetaminophen they took.
So while we think it's safe

498
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:49,880
because it's over the counter,
you still can take too much of

499
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,760
it and it can be very deadly.
And when I got to the point

500
00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,680
where it wasn't enough anymore
and I went to pain management

501
00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,920
and I fully understand.
I, I knew what I was getting

502
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:00,640
into.
But when you reach that level

503
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,520
with your chronic pain, you kind
of like just have to resolve to

504
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:07,160
the fact you're going to have to
take something every day to not

505
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,440
be in suffering, you know, in
suffering and pain.

506
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:14,360
So, you know, I totally
understood that going in.

507
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:18,160
I'm just, I tell you, 6 years of
kratom and I'm still blown away

508
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,960
every day.
I just drink my little swamp

509
00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:24,040
water tea, as I call it.
And I just do so much better and

510
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:26,400
I have less pain than than the
meds.

511
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,560
Yeah.
It's wild.

512
00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:32,960
It's just horrible.
I know.

513
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,720
I mean, thank goodness this,
this tree from Southeast Asia

514
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,080
made its way here so that we can
benefit from it.

515
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:43,600
I, I, I just love it.
So so you're mentioning some of

516
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,000
the other benefits you get from
crazy.

517
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,040
Sounds like you get a lot out of
this leaf.

518
00:28:48,040 --> 00:28:49,960
And you know, Doctor Christopher
McCurdy, who's one of the

519
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:54,120
leading researchers of kratom,
he calls the alkaloids like it

520
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,400
works like as a Symphony because
there's like over 40 alkaloids

521
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:00,840
and they all work together to do
all these amazing things.

522
00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:04,760
I just, it blows me away like
just hearing stories like yours

523
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:08,160
of like, so how much is helping
you and all the different things

524
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,320
it's helping you with.
Oh, yeah.

525
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,400
I'm so glad that I found it.
Like from just from hearing your

526
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,600
own experience with the, you
know, the pain management

527
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,560
clinics, I've heard horror
stories and, you know, I was on

528
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,240
the younger side, you know, and
unfortunately a lot of pain

529
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,160
management clinics don't like to
cater to younger people with

530
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,600
chronic pain.
Yeah, we hear that a lot.

531
00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:34,480
You know, it's really sad
because you can get suffer from

532
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,160
chronic pain at any age.
Like I I have the X-rays to

533
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:42,480
prove my hip was broken.
Like I know you guys can't feel

534
00:29:42,480 --> 00:29:45,520
my pain, but you know I've got
the proof that it's there.

535
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,760
But they're just so reluctant
with the younger people.

536
00:29:49,400 --> 00:29:53,720
Yeah, and, and and it's, it's a
real shame because, you know, no

537
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:55,560
one should have to suffer in
pain.

538
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,080
Well, tell us about how kratom
has impacted your daily life and

539
00:29:59,080 --> 00:30:02,880
just your overall well-being.
I mean, you work in veterinary

540
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:03,840
care, right?
Yep.

541
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,560
Yep.
I work at an emergency

542
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,960
veterinary hospital.
I pull 12 hour shifts overnight,

543
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:15,720
but it's so much easier to just,
you know, take a couple of

544
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,360
capsules in the morning and then
on my lunch break, take a couple

545
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,480
and then I'm good all the way
the whole 12 hours until I get

546
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:25,800
home at night.
And then, you know, I'll take my

547
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,640
night meds and I'll be
completely fine.

548
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:32,600
And I mean, I look back on, you
know, the past drug addictions

549
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:37,000
and it was like every 3-4 hours
during the day and it just

550
00:30:37,000 --> 00:30:42,080
ruined my entire day.
But it's so much easier now and

551
00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,800
I have, it does so many great
things for me and it's not

552
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,640
impacting my life in a horrible
way.

553
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:54,080
So I mean it, it gets me through
12 hour shifts at work without

554
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,760
having to wear my back brace.
Like, it's fantastic.

555
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:01,400
That is amazing Stephanie, that
that must be an awesome feeling

556
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:04,280
that you know this plan allows
you to do that.

557
00:31:04,280 --> 00:31:06,160
It means just like gives you
your life back.

558
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,680
It definitely gave me my life
back like 100%.

559
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,600
Yeah, I mean, you're definitely
a testament to the power of the

560
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:16,640
kratom leaf, for sure.
And for those watching the video

561
00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,760
version of this, you're wearing
a neck brace because you

562
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:20,520
recently got into a car
accident.

563
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,440
Has kratom been helpful with
your recovery from that?

564
00:31:24,560 --> 00:31:27,600
It has.
So they were.

565
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,520
They didn't want to give me like
any type of pain medication at

566
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:34,360
the hospital, which was a little
bit weird, but I found that all

567
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:39,320
I actually needed to do with
this accident was take like two

568
00:31:39,320 --> 00:31:42,840
more capsules.
That was it to my daily doses,

569
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:47,400
Just two extras for my doses
throughout the day and I was

570
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:52,480
completely fine, which, you
know, they didn't have to put me

571
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,680
on an opiate.
I'm so happy for that.

572
00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,400
That is amazing.
When you so did you did you have

573
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,640
to like go to the ER, an
ambulance or like what what

574
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:02,920
happened like after the
accident?

575
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,720
I went to the ER and they did,
you know, a chest X-ray, We

576
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:09,520
thought a rib was broken.
It wasn't.

577
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,960
Thank you.
I had to do like CT scans of

578
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,080
everything, lots of testing and
stuff.

579
00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,680
But I have to follow up with
like a specialist in a couple of

580
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:24,000
weeks for it.
But yeah, it just blew my mind

581
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,000
how, you know, less is more with
this plant.

582
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:30,240
Like I didn't need to start
taking a crap to more or

583
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,280
anything.
It was just a couple.

584
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,680
Well, that was so interesting,
right, right.

585
00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:39,480
Well, you know what's
interesting with this plant

586
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:40,920
though?
And, and again, it goes back to

587
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:42,400
how it affects everyone
differently.

588
00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,240
So you're just able to take two
more capsules and, and get

589
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,520
through this ordeal you've been
through with me.

590
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,760
I found that I have a limit of
how much powder I can consume

591
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:56,000
and it's 2 teaspoons.
I, you know, I mix it up with

592
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:00,200
some hot water, drink it with
some juice and if I take more

593
00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:03,080
than two teaspoons, it's not
going to help my pain anymore.

594
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,880
So like 2 that's if I take less
than two teaspoons is not going

595
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:09,880
to help.
So, but but it's weird because

596
00:33:09,880 --> 00:33:14,200
if I have extra, an extra pain
day or some kind of flare up, I

597
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,520
want to take more, but it's not
going to do anything.

598
00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:19,560
I'll just take Tylen, extra
Tylenol, you know, to supplement

599
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,480
my Kratom, but that's it.
But I think that's so great that

600
00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:25,520
you were just able to increase a
little bit more to get that

601
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:28,080
extra relief, but also knowing
that less is more.

602
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,240
So because so I think the
problem some people run into

603
00:33:31,240 --> 00:33:34,840
with kratom when they overuse it
is, is working great.

604
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,760
They like it.
Let's take more because I'll

605
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,760
feel even better, I think.
There are only so many receptors

606
00:33:42,760 --> 00:33:45,560
in your body though, so if
you're taking more of it, there

607
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:47,960
aren't enough receptors for it
to use.

608
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,480
So you're just taking more, but
it's not doing anything.

609
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,800
Like I had to play around with
my dose for quite a while, but

610
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,000
once I figured it out, I kind of
knew where my boundaries were.

611
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:04,560
So I knew that I was able to
kind of up my dose slightly for

612
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:08,520
after when this happened because
I had played around with it so

613
00:34:08,520 --> 00:34:11,400
much, which, you know, it takes
time to figure out where that

614
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,159
sweet spot is.
Right.

615
00:34:14,159 --> 00:34:17,400
Exactly.
And how is it helping you from

616
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,840
back when you were in your
opiate addiction?

617
00:34:21,199 --> 00:34:24,560
I mean, does it just make you
just not crave to be taking

618
00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,159
more, more, more?
Or like, what can you describe

619
00:34:27,159 --> 00:34:29,800
like what the feeling is that
kratom does different from back

620
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:31,239
when you were in active
addiction?

621
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,239
So they work on the same brain
receptors.

622
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:40,520
So you only have so many like
opiate receptors in your body.

623
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,679
In addiction, as you take more
of the drug, more receptors

624
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,480
appear in your body.
So that's why you start to have

625
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:51,920
to take more and more and more
of the medication.

626
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,400
It's all about them working on
the same exact receptors.

627
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,520
So did it get me high?
No.

628
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:03,000
Did it fill up the receptors
that were causing all the

629
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,840
agonizing pain and side effects
from the withdrawals in my body?

630
00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:08,880
Yes.
So it was kind.

631
00:35:08,880 --> 00:35:12,440
It worked kind of like a
Band-Aid for the same receptor.

632
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,400
The only thing I can really
think to compare it to was like

633
00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:20,360
when people get suboxone for
their withdrawals and it works

634
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:24,360
on the same receptors but it
doesn't get you high to that

635
00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,840
effect.
But I know I didn't want to use

636
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:31,480
suboxone because that was just
another drug Band-Aid opiate for

637
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,560
the opiates I was trying to get
off.

638
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:39,240
But it's with from my research I
found out it's because it works

639
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:41,240
on the same receptors for
everything.

640
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:45,680
So it doesn't get you that weird
high feeling, but it doesn't

641
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,760
make it gets rid of the cravings
and you know, the benefit of it

642
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:54,120
giving you actual pain relief
without completely turning your

643
00:35:54,120 --> 00:35:57,240
brain to mush.
Yeah, I mean, it just does it

644
00:35:57,240 --> 00:35:58,480
all for you.
I love that.

645
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:02,160
What do you what do you think of
Like, have you heard that now

646
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,560
pain management doctors are
trying to put patients on

647
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:06,640
Suboxone instead of regular
opiates?

648
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:10,440
Have you heard about this?
No, I haven't heard of that.

649
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:13,880
Like I know I know about them
using it to get people off of

650
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:18,120
opiates and that it has some
pain relief properties, but I

651
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:22,960
thought that that was only used
for like certain situations.

652
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,680
I didn't know that they were
using it strictly for pain

653
00:36:25,680 --> 00:36:28,800
control options.
We're starting to hear that more

654
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:30,440
and more through the pain
community.

655
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,800
I mean, I still keep up with the
pain community on on TikTok and

656
00:36:34,120 --> 00:36:37,280
I see them talking about from
time to time that doctors want

657
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:40,280
to just put people put everybody
on Suboxone for everything now.

658
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:44,280
Weird, I have not heard that at
all.

659
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:48,600
Well, a lot of people have used
kratom to get off of Suboxone.

660
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,000
It's interesting how some people
do the opposite.

661
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,360
They overuse kratom, they end up
abusing it, whether it's the

662
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,520
seven O the extracts or just
really a whole lot of powder.

663
00:36:58,520 --> 00:37:00,600
And I cannot imagine how
somebody can take a ton of

664
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:02,360
powder.
I mean, people have talked about

665
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:06,560
taking 50 to 75 grams a day.
How on earth, how on earth can

666
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:12,480
you consume kratom powder?
You would throw up before you

667
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,600
know it would do anything to
hurt you.

668
00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,280
So I just don't I can't imagine
not throwing it up.

669
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:19,480
You know, how could you just
keep taking more and more and

670
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:22,480
more?
But what some places are doing

671
00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:25,480
some of these addiction centers
now is they're taking people who

672
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:27,600
are addicted to kratom and put
them on Suboxone.

673
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,720
How does?
That I don't know.

674
00:37:32,720 --> 00:37:36,280
I don't that doesn't really make
sense.

675
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:39,560
I mean it, I guess it has to do
with the receptors and how they

676
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:43,880
work with those class of drugs.
But I've never Suboxone's like

677
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:48,160
the worst thing to withdraw from
other than like methadone from

678
00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:51,840
what I know.
Like I don't know why you would.

679
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,120
Want to talk with suboxone
withdrawal.

680
00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:59,400
I think out of everything is the
worst stories you hear is people

681
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,200
trying to go off with suboxone.
That seems to be the hardest one

682
00:38:02,680 --> 00:38:07,200
and there's been so many.
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

683
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:10,120
So they can't get down what so
many people have told me they

684
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,600
they have a hard time getting
down low enough so they could

685
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:16,680
stop it to go start kratom if
they want to get off of that and

686
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,520
start kratom instead of using
Suboxone.

687
00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:22,120
But it.
Yeah, it's that that is such a

688
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:26,360
long acting that they just can't
get to that place and it's.

689
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:28,920
So weird.
It is weird.

690
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:32,640
That's why I'm just so grateful
for this plan because I don't

691
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:34,040
have to deal with all that
anymore.

692
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:36,720
I can't imagine going to my pain
management doctor and all of a

693
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,680
sudden they're saying we're
going to change your

694
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:40,400
prescription and put you on this
other one.

695
00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,280
It's called Suboxone.
And like with the Suboxone, you

696
00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:48,880
have to be off of certain pain
medications for like over 24

697
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,800
hours or it throws you into this
horrific withdrawal.

698
00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:57,120
So even if you're trying to
switch somebody to the Suboxone,

699
00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,960
they're going to have to go
through a stage of withdrawal

700
00:38:59,960 --> 00:39:04,080
before they can even try it.
So that, that it's a little

701
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,520
confusing to me because it if
you, if they try to give you

702
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,080
Suboxone like the day you're
coming off of opiates, you will

703
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,200
go into hard withdrawal and it
will be so much worse.

704
00:39:15,240 --> 00:39:19,120
Oh, that's scary.
I mean, I'm just going by

705
00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:22,560
stories I've seen people talk
about on social media, which

706
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,320
wouldn't surprise me because it
seems like Sabacha, like, you

707
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,400
know, for a long time it's been
doctors writing scripts for

708
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,160
gabapentin, all of them.
And it seems like there's must

709
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,680
be some kind of kickback they
get, you know, because they

710
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,040
write like even when I was in
pain management, they gave me

711
00:39:36,040 --> 00:39:39,040
tons of of gabapentin.
I don't think it did anything,

712
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,240
but they just kept up in the
dose.

713
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:44,080
I mean, I was taking 2700
milligrams a day, which is

714
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:46,480
insane on top of all the other
meds.

715
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,040
Looking back, that was that was
like a lot of those.

716
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,240
Gabapentin is the first thing
that they threw at me in rehab.

717
00:39:55,240 --> 00:39:59,440
Actually they had me up to like
1200 milligrams three times a

718
00:39:59,440 --> 00:40:01,680
day and I'm like what is going
on with?

719
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:04,920
This.
Yeah, it was a very free.

720
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,760
Yeah.
But now it seems like Suboxone

721
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:09,800
is the one that's so freely
prescribed.

722
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:12,920
You know, I don't know.
I don't know if it's just like

723
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,280
the amount of money they make by
writing these scripts.

724
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:18,080
It's just, it's just an odd
thing.

725
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,120
Like why is it always just a
focus of one particular drug

726
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:25,040
that they just really prescribe
to everybody?

727
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,200
And you know, that's a big part
of the problem.

728
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:33,160
I mean, treat the patient, treat
their pain, treat their issues

729
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:37,360
instead of this generic one.
All drug for everything that's

730
00:40:37,840 --> 00:40:39,800
not necessarily right for
everybody.

731
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:44,360
Again, again, it goes back to
why we love our plant Kratom.

732
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:49,960
You know, it's like it does
everything and more, you know,

733
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:55,200
and it's natural, you know,
comes from a leaf and it's not

734
00:40:55,200 --> 00:40:58,680
crazy expensive and easily
accessible unless you live in a

735
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,320
state that banned it due to
basically misinformation

736
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:04,320
propaganda, which is so
infuriating.

737
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,320
Like Louisiana just banned it
and made it schedule one, which

738
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:13,520
is it's just ridiculous.
But their legislator said that

739
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,720
there was like something with
kratom and seven O waste and

740
00:41:17,720 --> 00:41:23,560
they said kratom is what they
said was it is they said all

741
00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,280
kratom.
It was either they said it's all

742
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,560
synthetic or not synthetic.
I can't I don't remember which

743
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,600
way they said it.
One of those ways, which was

744
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:33,640
let's see, I think they I don't
know because what they said

745
00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:37,400
contradicts what the FDA just
came out with in their press

746
00:41:37,400 --> 00:41:40,080
conference a few weeks ago.
Because they're talking about

747
00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:44,120
how you have synthetic seven O 8
and you got kratom leaf, which

748
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:47,520
is natural.
You would think that they could

749
00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:50,120
take this information from
higher up in the government and

750
00:41:50,120 --> 00:41:53,680
go to the state of Louisiana and
say, hey, y'all need to fix this

751
00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:55,800
man.
I think this ban y'all did

752
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,320
because it's not correct.
Y'all were not preaching correct

753
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:02,120
information on the record.
You know, it was like opposite

754
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,520
of what they were saying.
And this is like a wake up call

755
00:42:06,520 --> 00:42:10,360
to all of us consumers like our
government at the IT can be at

756
00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:13,480
your city level, your state
level, and then all the way up

757
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,320
to the top that, you know,
they're making all these

758
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:18,880
decisions for us.
We got to speak up and speak out

759
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,160
so that they hear from us, the
constituents and the people

760
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,640
where these affect them.
And I think in Louisiana, I

761
00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:28,920
think a lot of people just
didn't know that this has has

762
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,720
been going on.
Yeah, I didn't even know that it

763
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:35,480
was even up on the chopping
block for Louisiana until I

764
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:38,320
found out that they had, you
know, scheduled it.

765
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:41,800
And until they.
'D already done it, I had no

766
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:44,520
idea.
That seems to be common.

767
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,280
You know, one of the things I
was really grateful for in my

768
00:42:47,280 --> 00:42:50,160
research early on with kratom,
as I discovered the American

769
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,280
Kratom Association, which is a
lobbying group for US kratom

770
00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:57,000
consumers.
And so early on, I joined their

771
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,440
e-mail list.
So I always get their emails and

772
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,640
they're the ones that keep up
with all the legal stuff around

773
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,960
the country.
So that was a way for me to

774
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,240
always be aware of like what's
going on everywhere.

775
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:12,200
And they let you know so that
you can voice your opinion when

776
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,200
needed and, and just know what's
happening.

777
00:43:16,160 --> 00:43:20,400
And I think we need more people
knowing about that group and,

778
00:43:20,400 --> 00:43:23,960
and groups like it because how
else are we supposed to know?

779
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:27,240
I mean, who thinks to go pay
attention to your state

780
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,520
government?
The not, you know, the federal

781
00:43:30,520 --> 00:43:34,840
government, just, you know, we
just assume kratom will be safe.

782
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,920
Yeah, I wasn't even aware about
that.

783
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,920
Well, I think there doesn't just
need to be more education among

784
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,320
the community, you know, to know
that those kind of groups are

785
00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:48,440
out there because a lot of
people, you know, they're

786
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,280
getting them from like smoke
shops and stuff like that.

787
00:43:51,280 --> 00:43:53,640
And they don't realize that
there's like a bigger group

788
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,480
behind it that can give them all
of this information and send

789
00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:00,040
them to reputable, you know,
manufacturers.

790
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,080
But, you know, I didn't know
that there was like a, a group

791
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:06,080
out there keeping up on
legislative stuff.

792
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,640
I'm going to have to go
subscribe to their newsletter or

793
00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:11,080
something.
I'll put the link in the show

794
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:14,080
notes for this episode.
But yes, American kratom.org,

795
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,080
they're the ones that stay on
top of everything.

796
00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:21,840
They work so hard to do it.
And I, you know, I've been

797
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:24,440
connected with them for years.
I love the work they do.

798
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:25,960
I've donated to them in the
past.

799
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:29,240
You don't have to donate.
They do take donations through

800
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:31,840
the community, but it's just a
great way to stay on top of

801
00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,320
what's happening around us.
But it's just important for us

802
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,240
to speak up because people need
to.

803
00:44:37,640 --> 00:44:40,880
I always say like, we got to
normalize this plan.

804
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,080
Like too many people are scared
to talk about it.

805
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:45,840
And if that keeps happening,
then we're going to see more of

806
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:49,680
like what happened Louisiana,
where, you know, the people in

807
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,760
charge are going to set laws
that we don't agree with.

808
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,120
And and if we don't pay
attention, you can wake up one

809
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:57,320
day and you no longer connects
us to kratom.

810
00:44:58,640 --> 00:45:00,680
Yeah.
And yeah, I feel for the people

811
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:03,640
in Louisiana because I feel like
that happened to a lot of them.

812
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,800
Yeah, well they estimated like
300,000 kratom consumers in

813
00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:13,280
Louisiana, so I'm sure right now
a lot of them are real because

814
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,520
it would affect August 1st.
I'm sure plenty of people are

815
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:19,760
going to their smoke shop to go
stock up on more kratom only to

816
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:24,760
find out that not only you can't
buy it there anymore, but they

817
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:27,800
schedule it a schedule 1.
So that and the way they did

818
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:32,640
this long is crazy.
If you have more than 20 grams

819
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,640
and 20 grams is not that much
kratom.

820
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,120
If you have more than 20 grams
and you're caught with more than

821
00:45:37,120 --> 00:45:39,440
20 grams, you could go to
prison.

822
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:42,840
Yeah.
I mean, it's it's not just

823
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:44,520
banned, it's criminalized as
well.

824
00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:46,840
So because they're treating it
as schedule 1.

825
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,240
So schedule one puts it with
heroin, fentanyl.

826
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:54,200
And if you if you have more than
20 grams, they're just looking

827
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:58,000
at you like a trafficker.
That is ridiculous.

828
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:01,040
That really is.
Yeah, so people have got to

829
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:03,800
advocate for this plan.
Any, any consumers out there

830
00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,760
watching or listening to this,
we got to speak up because this

831
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,680
could happen anywhere.
I live in Texas, and Texas tried

832
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:12,880
to ban it earlier this year.
They tried to do the same thing

833
00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:14,520
as Louisiana.
They wanted to ban and

834
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:16,200
criminalize it.
Make a schedule one.

835
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,840
We're all making calls.
We're doing everything we can.

836
00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:26,120
Luckily it kind of died in one
of the House committees, but

837
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,120
it's but they could start back
up in two years.

838
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:34,280
So I'm just trying to get more
Texas consumers like myself to

839
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:38,280
like let's spend these next two
years making calls and doing

840
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,160
everything we can.
Go to Austin if we have to and

841
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,560
go to the state capitol and go
go talk to legislators in

842
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:46,240
person.
It makes a difference.

843
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:47,760
It makes a difference telling
our story.

844
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,280
Because even if it's just
brought up once in the

845
00:46:51,280 --> 00:46:54,760
Legislature, you know it's
hiding under there.

846
00:46:54,760 --> 00:46:57,160
Somebody's going to bring it
back up if you don't keep

847
00:46:57,160 --> 00:46:59,560
talking about the benefits of it
and everything.

848
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:02,720
They absolutely do.
They, they always do.

849
00:47:02,720 --> 00:47:04,600
I mean, because I've been
staying on top of the advocacy

850
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,280
stuff for years now and I've
gotten involved in American

851
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,440
Crime Association.
I've been to Washington, DC

852
00:47:09,440 --> 00:47:12,400
twice on Capitol Hill with
things that they put together

853
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:16,000
there, You know, just going on
my own because like I just, I'm

854
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,400
just so passionate about this
because it's been so life

855
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,520
changing for me.
And I want other people to know

856
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:23,800
about it and I want to tell my
story and help other people tell

857
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:25,840
their story.
And then the last time I went

858
00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:31,080
was back in April and it was
pretty amazing going with some

859
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,400
different kratom lobbyists, some
kratom industry people and then

860
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:37,320
consumers like myself and just
going to different offices on

861
00:47:37,320 --> 00:47:39,120
Capitol Hill and talking to the
people.

862
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,920
And they're going to listen the
most to you, the consumer.

863
00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:46,920
And in in our groups, in my
group, I was the only consumer.

864
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,120
So, you know, you got the
lobbyists, you got, you got the

865
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,760
industry people and they got me
as a consumer.

866
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,960
And every time you know, I
spoke, they're passionately

867
00:47:55,960 --> 00:47:58,960
listening because they're
hearing a first hand account of

868
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,960
somebody who spent years in pain
management taking opiates, who

869
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:08,080
gets lost access because of the
government policies and found a

870
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,840
plant and how and sharing like,
how much does this help?

871
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,440
And I don't suffer like I used
to.

872
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,320
And then every time I spoke, I
pull out my because I always had

873
00:48:16,320 --> 00:48:18,400
my I had my backpack with me.
I'm like, I'm always going to

874
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,120
Kratom on me.
When you have chronic pain,

875
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:21,840
you're not going anywhere
without it.

876
00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:25,520
So I pull out the bag and show
them and I'd open it up.

877
00:48:25,520 --> 00:48:30,080
I said, see, it's a powder.
And they took such interest.

878
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:32,880
And we need more stories like
that out there to these

879
00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:35,200
legislators that make decisions
for us.

880
00:48:35,640 --> 00:48:40,440
So you can see that is it's not
scary, it's not harmful.

881
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:43,160
The science, the science shows
that it's safe.

882
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,920
The FDA, I don't know if you
know that the FDA who's always

883
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:49,640
badmouth kratom until now, you
know, they're saying this

884
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:54,480
finally saying leaf is OK.
They did a single dose study of

885
00:48:54,480 --> 00:48:58,160
kratom.
They did capsules as a single, a

886
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:05,680
single single dose study up to
12 grams. 12 grams at once is a

887
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,200
lot.
They had people take 1212 grams

888
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:12,400
of capsules in a 5 minute period
and the FDA was sure people were

889
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,920
going to die.
And the worst that happened was

890
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,560
a few people got nauseous.
Well, you know, if you feed me

891
00:49:18,560 --> 00:49:21,320
12 grams of capsules in 5
minutes, I'm going to be

892
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,840
nauseous too, because that's a
lot of capsule shells to be

893
00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,320
interesting in a short period of
time.

894
00:49:27,040 --> 00:49:30,640
So they know it's safe.
They just haven't like published

895
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:33,080
it on their website yet.
They've talked about it.

896
00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:36,440
They've they've mentioned it in,
in different kratom symposiums,

897
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:38,600
but they've yet to like make it
official.

898
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:41,560
So we know that we know it's
safe.

899
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:43,240
The science shows that it's
safe.

900
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:49,080
It's so weird that, you know,
once people know about that

901
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,680
evidence, you know, then that's
great.

902
00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:54,520
But I feel like a lot of the,
you know, you going and talking

903
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,200
to these legislators is like
great, because they don't have

904
00:49:57,200 --> 00:50:01,120
that perspective of like the
actual consumers And with, you

905
00:50:01,120 --> 00:50:04,280
know, that study, you know,
maybe if more of them knew about

906
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:07,920
the study, then we wouldn't be
having it on the chopping block

907
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,840
everywhere.
Yeah, exactly.

908
00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:14,640
We just need more fellow kratom
everyday Krame consumers to just

909
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:19,440
speak up and and help spread the
awareness because I think that's

910
00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:22,960
what will help keep it safe.
And so, yeah, this has been such

911
00:50:22,960 --> 00:50:24,840
a great conversation.
Stephanie, I'm so glad you came

912
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:26,960
on the podcast.
I always like to end with the

913
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,440
final question being, knowing
everything you know now and you

914
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:32,160
know you've been using kratom a
long time, what advice would you

915
00:50:32,160 --> 00:50:35,520
give to someone to help them get
started in their own journey?

916
00:50:37,200 --> 00:50:41,360
Definitely research the
manufacturers.

917
00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:45,360
I don't really recommend going
to head shops for it because you

918
00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:49,560
never really know what's in
those kratom packages, but look

919
00:50:49,560 --> 00:50:53,240
into like good manufacturers.
You know, there's a bunch

920
00:50:53,240 --> 00:50:56,600
online, You know, I mentioned I
go to cast Botanicals, I've done

921
00:50:57,280 --> 00:51:01,000
organic Kratom USA.
Those are the two manufacturers

922
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,640
that I found that I like the
most.

923
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:06,600
But if you're going to try it,
definitely don't try the head

924
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:09,560
shop stuff first because you
don't know what's in it.

925
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,240
Definitely go to somebody who
lets you know exactly what's in

926
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,600
it.
Yeah, you want to make sure

927
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:18,600
it's, you know, lab tested,
third party lab tested.

928
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:20,640
If you have a good, reputable
vendor, they're going to do

929
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:23,440
that.
Yeah, that's excellent advice.

930
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,680
Thank you so much for coming on
the podcast and sharing your

931
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,440
story with us today.
Yeah, not a problem.

932
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:29,480
Happy to do so.