Ep 75: Inside the Kratom Industry: Emy & Oshin of Jaya Kratom Share Their Journey

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So kratom strains really do not
exist.

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There is just one type of kratom
tree growing fundamentally.

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I think one of the most kind of
funny and evocative stories of

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that was when we first went out
and we first arrived out in the

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middle of Borneo.
And we're with these, you know,

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some of the first kratom farms
that we were on.

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And we're talking to these old
Indonesian guys that were the

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kratom farmers there.
And we're saying like, so OK, so

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tell me about your land here.
Tell me what's going on.

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What what are the different
strains you're growing?

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You know, what do you have
growing here?

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What do you have growing here?
Like, you know, give us a tour

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of, of your operations and these
old Indonesian, you know, kratom

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growers looking at us very
confused, like silly foreigners.

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What are you talking about?
Like, this is an old kratom

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tree.
And they're like, yeah, those,

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those are our neighbors kratom
trees.

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And that's a big one.
That's a small one.

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This one is flowering.
And this notion of there being

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different strains just
completely was was was going

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over their head.
So I'm here with Emmy and Ocean,

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a couple who are doing an
amazing job in the kratom

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industry.
Been super excited to bring them

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on to share their message about
kratom and the really amazing

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things they're doing.
Emmy and Ocean, thank you all

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for coming on the podcast to
come share your incredible story

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with us.
Hey, thank you so much.

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We're so happy to be here.
We've been following your work

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for a long time and are just
really, really impressed by all

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the advocacy you've been doing
in the atomosphere and are so

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happy to speak with you today.
Yeah.

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To share our share our story and
have a conversation with you.

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Absolutely.
And I'm so glad you all reached

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out several months back.
You know, it, I went, I mean, I

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get contacted by a lot of
companies and I'm very

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particular about who I ever want
to be aligned with and, and talk

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to you because, you know,
honestly, in this industry,

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there are a lot of shady
companies out there and people

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that don't care about consumers.
They just care about making

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money.
And when I went to your website,

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I was super impressed by your
story and what you guys are

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doing in this industry is, is
phenomenal.

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And I want to help spread that
message far and wide.

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So that's why I'm just so
excited to have you here to, to

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talk to us today.
And why don't we start with with

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y'all sharing a little bit about
yourself before Kratom, your

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life before Kratom, and then how
kratom came into the picture.

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Yeah, absolutely.
So yeah, my name is Osheen.

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I am the Co founder of Jaya
Kratom along with Emmy here.

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And so I've lived all around the
world in a number of different

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places, but have spent a lot of
my formative years here in

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Portland, OR.
So that is where we have our our

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headquarters, we have our brick
and mortar Cortana dispensary,

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and we also have our warehouse
and all our operations here in

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Portland.
And yeah, spent a lot of years

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here throughout high school and
university.

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And now we've been back here for
about 5 years.

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And yeah, absolutely love the
Pacific Northwest and we have an

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incredible kratom community out
here as well.

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There's a huge kratom community,
a lot of people that are turned

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onto the plant.
And yeah, very happy to to be

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home here.
And my kratom story actually

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begins quite a long time ago in
Portland.

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It's been a part of my life
since I would say at least 2012,

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if not before.
And I had the good fortune of

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finding kratom way back then in
a small herbalist shop in

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Portland.
And I went to university at Reed

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College here, which is a very
academic super, you know,

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rigorous kind of life of the
mind school, a lot of hours in

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the library and found that to be
super challenging and really was

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looking for something to help me
with long hours in the library

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and writing huge papers.
And, you know, that really

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rigorous academia side that I
found to be quite challenging.

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And I had read about Katam and
some old botany books, had

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heard, you know, a little bit
about it here and there in the

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library, was trying to find
information.

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It was, there was not too much
about it, but I'd heard about

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how it had been used for, you
know, working and productivity

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as a kind of a caffeine
alternative in addition to a

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number of other uses.
And yeah, managed to find some

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and was blown away by how much
it helped me and, and you know,

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made spending 8 hours in the
library working fun and

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engaging.
And I found it to be just

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invaluable in my life for
working productivity.

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And then found it, you know,
really, really useful in a

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number of other ways from doing
things with sports or recovery

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or, you know, just socializing
and with friends in a healthier

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way than than alcohol.
And, and yeah, I found it to be

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just a huge really beneficial
part of my life from from then

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on, so.
And then on my side, I'm Emmy,

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I'm British, as you may be able
to maybe out to hear.

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And so growing up in England,
kratom was actually banned in

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the UK quite a long time ago.
So it never really entered the

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public consciousness in the way
it has here.

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So I actually didn't encounter
kratom until quite a lot later

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when we were actually living in
Indonesia completely unrelated

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to kratom in 2019.
And so I was really lucky in

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that way that my first
introduction to Gratan was

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really like in the source and
straight this beautiful, fresh,

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lovely green, bright, like
beautiful Gratan.

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And actually remember the first
time trying for Tom and the

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first time really feeling its
effects, just drinking a tea

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with Osheen one day and then
going out on a walk by myself

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and just walking through the
beautiful Indonesian countryside

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and just felt like absolutely
fantastic and like myself on my

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very best day where I was so
chatty and feeling really like

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social and positive.
And just remember being like,

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wow, this is something new.
This is something I've never

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experienced before with a plant.
And it's just a really

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incredible and mind blowing
experience.

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I'd never heard of it before.
So that's where, you know, went

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back home, wanted to research it
and find out some information

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about it.
And back then in 20/20/18, I

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guess 2019, the information that
you could find on kratom was

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just so limited.
There were barely even any

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photographs online.
And I was top photographer at

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the time.
So this really triggered my

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interest that you didn't really
have any images of this plant.

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That was just seemed like so
exceptional that everybody

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seemed like they should know
about.

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And in my mind, it's like, it's
like I stumbled upon coffee for

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the first time, but nobody had
told me about it until I was in

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my 20s.
So, yeah, that really just LED

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us down this rabbit hole of, of
research and LED us to putting

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together project because being
in Indonesia, we're like, hey,

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we're only like 2 hours away by
flight from Borneo.

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She's also part of Indonesia and
we're so close to the source.

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And so all these questions that
were coming up and we're unable

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to answer at the time, we're
like, hey, we can go and answer

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those for ourselves.
And so, yeah, we put together a

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research project and everything
kind of LED from there.

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That's incredible.
So you're like, let's just go to

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Borneo.
Let's go to the source.

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Yeah, we really say that it's
like, it's kind of like the

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energy that we got from Cortana,
the focus and the the positive

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feelings and uplift that we got
from it was really the the

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essence of what made us be
capable of putting together this

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project.
So we really say that we've been

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carried by this leaf around the
world to to research it and then

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to open a company.
That is incredible.

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So I bet you'll have amazing
stories of your research.

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How?
How much time did y'all spend

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over there doing all that?
So we've spent probably pushing

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8 weeks actually out in remote
Borneo, sleeping on katam farms,

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travelling all over, really
ingrained in the community, way

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out in the Borneo rainforest.
But then we've also done a lot

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of other katam research in
Thailand and Malaysia and other

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parts of Southeast Asia.
So All in all, we've been at it

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for, you know, kind of years in
total.

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But yeah, in that the bulk of
our research and, and where we

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source all of our Katam from is
coming from, from out in the

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Borneo rainforest, from
communities that that we know

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really well and from, from
people that we really regard as

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friends.
And yeah, we just had the the

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great fortune to to get research
funding to go out and, and study

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Katam cultivation.
And in fact, our whole initial

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research was, was way before we
were involved in the kratom

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vendorsphere whatsoever and was
just a passion project for us

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because we loved the plant.
And we saw that there was a lot

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of misinformation about it or a
lot of conflicting information.

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There were just a whole lot of
questions that we had and we saw

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others had about the kratom
industry and, and where it's

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coming from and what makes good
kratom, what makes bad kratom,

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all of that.
So that's really what motivated

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us to, to get out there and get
into the field.

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And I myself had had a, you
know, a huge number of questions

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about the plants from from 2012
to, you know, 2018-2019 when we

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were getting out there in
Indonesia, because I, like many

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people had, you know, fallen in
love with kratom, have some

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amazing batches.
But then I think especially back

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in the day, it's still now
there's, you know, this constant

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discussion of, of, of, you know,
why are there occasionally these

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batches that have very little
effect or don't have very nice

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effects?
What, what is the difference

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between these batches?
What are the agricultural

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practices that go into creating
really, you know, high alkaloid,

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really nice feeling for Tom and
it, you know, again and again

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found amazing for Tom in
Portland and then very poor

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quality for Tom.
And that raised a lot of

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questions on my mind about, you
know, what's going on out there.

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Yeah, we have to.
We have to go and and get out

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into the Borneo rainforest and
figure it out.

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That is so interesting.
So what was it like being in the

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rainforest and doing that
reason, You know, majority of us

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here in the USI mean we just buy
our Kratom, it's in a pouch and

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we scoop it into our tea or toss
and wash or whatever we do with

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consuming it.
And so incredibly different when

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you're actually over there
having that experience.

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So talk a little more about
that.

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Yeah.
So I think to put it in

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perspective, Borneo's an
absolutely massive island.

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It's four times the size of the
UK, larger than Texas.

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It's absolutely huge, and it's
bang on the equator.

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And in Indonesia, Indonesia,
it's called Kalimantan.

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Kalimantan in Sanskrit means
land of the burning air because

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it's just like 35°C.
So what a 95 Fahrenheit every

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single day, day and night, high
humidity.

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It's a very, very intense place
to be.

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And on top of that, the areas
like kratom is growing and not

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at all the the areas where
tourists go.

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So there's no tourism
infrastructure.

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It's very few hotels or guest
houses.

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So when we're spending time out
there, it's really local.

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People have put us up and we're
sleeping on somebody's floor for

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a week and staying in these
little, like shacks made from

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kratom wood often.
And going up, you know, 18 hours

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by car to the center of the
island and then three hours on a

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rickety little boat to go to the
kratom farms, which were growing

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on the kratom on the riverbanks
of the Kapwis River.

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So it's a very, very rugged,
intense experience.

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But there is really some
incredible communities out

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there, very, very remote and
there's a wonderful hosting

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culture in Indonesia.
So we're always wonderfully

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received and people always
receive us with coffee and katam

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and beautiful meals.
And so it's a really, really

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wonderful experience.
And yeah, it's it can be

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challenging, but in a good way.
Challenging, but in a good way.

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Yeah, very, very long boat and
car rides and going way out by

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foot and yeah, very challenging.
But everybody out in Borneo is

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just, you know, such an
incredible community of people.

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And it's just such a pleasure
for us to to to be able to do

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00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,520
this work and this research.
And is, is truly a pleasure to,

223
00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:15,320
to be able to wander out into,
into the forest or to people's

224
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,520
kratom and, you know, eat the
leaves fresh off the trees and,

225
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:21,400
and interact with folks in that
way and learn about the, the

226
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:24,280
cultivation of the plants, but
also the traditional community

227
00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:27,320
and, and how people have used it
there for hundreds of years.

228
00:13:27,560 --> 00:13:30,080
Yeah, people are really excited
usually to receive us it too,

229
00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,560
because we found almost
systematically that

230
00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,080
unfortunately we were the
actually the first people coming

231
00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:41,800
there to talk about Craton in
many, many communities.

232
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,280
They hadn't had anybody, despite
these massive companies already

233
00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:48,520
existing in the US, they had
never met any representatives

234
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,800
from those companies coming out
to visit the farms and to and

235
00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,560
to, you know, see what was going
on.

236
00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:56,920
And if they had, it would be for
like, you know, 20 minutes,

237
00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,520
somebody would come through and
shake some hands and then get a

238
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:05,800
very sanitized tour of the of
the Craton farm and then leave.

239
00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:10,160
So people were very happy to let
us into their world and show us

240
00:14:10,560 --> 00:14:13,920
what was going on.
And given that we were not at

241
00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:18,600
all on our very first trip,
since we were not actually part

242
00:14:18,600 --> 00:14:21,760
of the industry at that point
and nobody was under any

243
00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,520
pretense that they were going to
sell us anything, we got a very

244
00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,080
unsanitized version of the
Croton industry.

245
00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:32,960
So, you know, people went
cleaning up before we arrived or

246
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:35,720
trying to make everything seem
perfect or only showing us the

247
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,880
good things.
We got very much the the full

248
00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:43,680
image of the good, the bad and
the ugly of the crouton industry

249
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:47,280
in the in Indonesia.
That, that is so cool.

250
00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:49,840
So what was your first
impression when y'all were there

251
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:51,640
experiencing that their first
time?

252
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,920
Well, I guess it could speak a
little bit to the environmental

253
00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,880
factors of what's going on in
Borneo, and that also ties into

254
00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:00,400
what it actually looks like out
there.

255
00:15:01,160 --> 00:15:06,120
So you can fly into the cities
on the coast of Borneo and

256
00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,080
there's no qatam growing there
whatsoever.

257
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,920
So you actually have to drive
about 15 hours, 12:12 to, you

258
00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:16,520
know, 18 hours inland into the
center of Borneo to find where

259
00:15:16,520 --> 00:15:19,160
Katam's really growing naturally
and where these, you know, Katam

260
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:23,240
communities are.
And for, you know, the 1st 8

261
00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:26,480
hours of that drive, you know,
it's honestly heartbreaking

262
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,520
'cause you think, wow, you're
out in the, in the, in this

263
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,200
really remote place in the
Borneo rainforest, you're gonna

264
00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,440
see orangutans and all this
awesome wildlife and, and you

265
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:36,760
know, rainforest and all this.
And yeah, the first eight hours,

266
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,240
it is really the, the forest has
been clear cut.

267
00:15:41,040 --> 00:15:44,800
There are palm oil plantations
as far as the eye can see.

268
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,440
And unfortunately, you know,
that part of the world has

269
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:51,720
really been devastated
ecologically by the the rubber

270
00:15:51,720 --> 00:15:56,600
industry, rubber trees, palm oil
and and logging.

271
00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:58,040
Those are really.
Gold mining.

272
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,360
Too gold mining, yeah.
And those are really the three

273
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,800
unfortunately super extractive,
super damaging industries out

274
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,120
there.
So that's kind of what you're

275
00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,800
you're first faced with as you,
as you go out into these, you

276
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:13,720
know, super remote areas is the
reality of, of yeah, of, you

277
00:16:13,720 --> 00:16:15,720
know, deforestation of palm oil
and rubber.

278
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:21,080
And then finally getting out
deeper into kratom country, like

279
00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:23,400
we call it, you know, where
you're, you're really out there.

280
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,240
And there's there's still forest
and there's wild kratom and

281
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:30,560
you're more remote.
We got to learn about how the

282
00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:34,880
kratom industry is really
providing this incredible

283
00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:40,960
alternative to these really
badly paying, exploitative

284
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,040
industries.
And we got to meet with so many

285
00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:49,040
people that were just incredibly
thankful for kratom becoming

286
00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:52,360
popular in the rest of the world
because these really remote

287
00:16:52,360 --> 00:16:57,600
villages were able to, you know,
make a living for themselves and

288
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:01,720
their family and exist in their
traditional communities without

289
00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:04,800
cutting down the forest,
without, you know, ripping up

290
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,920
the riverbanks, mining for gold,
planting palm oil and the

291
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,240
pesticides and fertilizers that
go with all of all of the palm

292
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,040
oil and rubber industry.
And so we got to see this

293
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:19,640
picture of how kratom is really
this, you know, integral part of

294
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:22,760
the answer to preserving the
forest out there and allowing

295
00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,079
people to also maintain their
traditional way of lives in

296
00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:29,040
their traditional communities
and not, you know, travel great

297
00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,480
distances to find work logging
or somewhere else.

298
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,400
And so so that was really a
beautiful to see how Cortana is

299
00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:39,120
this plant that benefits so many
lives in the US and Europe and

300
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:43,160
all around the world, but
indirectly through preserving

301
00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,000
ecology is also really
benefiting the land and and then

302
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,600
the people of of the Borneo
rainforest in Indonesia.

303
00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,040
Yeah, it's one of the only
industries out there where maybe

304
00:17:52,040 --> 00:17:57,840
even the only industry where
it's where it's you can grow

305
00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,680
some kratom trees and make an
income and keep that income

306
00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,280
within the community completely.
Like a small amount of land will

307
00:18:04,280 --> 00:18:09,880
provide enough income with
kratom to sustain and really

308
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,920
improve people's livelihoods.
We had the same story over and

309
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,600
over again, which is really,
really touching of people saying

310
00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,600
thanks to Kratom, I was able to
send my kids to university for

311
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:24,040
the first time and they're off
in the in the city and then

312
00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:27,880
learning English too.
So they're actually able to

313
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:32,600
speak to buyers and and have
this really wonderful

314
00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:37,200
relationship where they're then
working to also improve their

315
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,680
families business.
And yeah, this really touching

316
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:43,040
story of, yeah, kids being able
to go to university for the

317
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,640
first time, as well as a lot of
the men saying that they were

318
00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:50,400
really happy because in the
past, they'd had to go months at

319
00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,360
a time, logging off into remote
parts of the forest and not see

320
00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:55,080
their families for months at a
time.

321
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:59,240
But they were finally able to
work within their village and

322
00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,640
stay with their kids and stay
with their families rather than

323
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:04,320
having to go and find work
elsewhere.

324
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:08,640
So that was a really, really
inspiring story for us and not

325
00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,280
one that we really expected to
to come across, but it was

326
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,760
something we heard all over the
place.

327
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,400
And there's even now some
studies were done by the

328
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,960
Indonesian government that say
that yes, 70% of the rubber

329
00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:27,120
plantations in West Borneo have
been cut down, say non-native

330
00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,120
and replaced with kratom
plantations because the kratom

331
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:32,120
is native.
So it grows a lot easier, the

332
00:19:32,120 --> 00:19:36,080
work is easier, the money's
better, and everybody is very,

333
00:19:36,080 --> 00:19:40,400
very happy to have this, this
plant become so popular.

334
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,680
And we talk a lot about people
relying on kratom on the in the

335
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,600
US and for various health
reasons.

336
00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:52,440
So I'm just enjoying the plant.
But it's really important to

337
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:54,160
take it.
Bear in mind too, the number of

338
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:58,360
people who are relying on kratom
economically out in out in

339
00:19:58,360 --> 00:20:01,920
Borneo.
It's incredible and it makes.

340
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,600
It makes you like want to
support companies like yours

341
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,720
even more that are working
directly with these small

342
00:20:08,720 --> 00:20:13,040
farmers, these families that you
all have spent a lot of time

343
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:17,160
there, did all that research,
got to know people and and

344
00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,240
seeing how this is affecting
their lives.

345
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:25,040
Yeah, we had to really rewrite,
rewrite the book on how the

346
00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:28,640
industry works in order to to
make these relationships.

347
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:34,800
Because normally some people who
are supplying companies are

348
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,440
living in the big city of
Pontiac, which is an industrial

349
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:41,920
city in Grosvenor Cotam.
And they're actually just

350
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,640
collecting.
Or they have a guy in the remote

351
00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,960
areas who's collecting leaves
and then who's shipping them to

352
00:20:47,960 --> 00:20:49,760
the city to be mailed and sent
off.

353
00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:53,160
And we weren't happy with that
system because it means that,

354
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:55,480
you know, you have somebody
doing a great job and then

355
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,360
somebody doing a mediocre job
and it's all mixed together and

356
00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:02,200
there's no accountability to,
you know, harvest these at the

357
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:07,000
right time and to and to be
making a really high quality

358
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,000
product.
So we actually had to go and

359
00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:14,080
negotiate to make sure that we
are directly in contact with

360
00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,680
every single farmer so that we
can place orders directly with

361
00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:23,560
them and make sure that's only
one, one community or families

362
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:25,640
leaves that are being collected.
And we know that they're doing a

363
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,200
good job.
And then we can keep that as one

364
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,560
small batch instead of, you
know, everything being mixed

365
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:35,680
together as it usually is.
Yeah, I think it's, it's it's

366
00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:37,960
really important to kind of
paint a picture and always

367
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,120
talking to this with with
customers that come into our

368
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:42,400
shop and we're telling them, OK,
so everything we have here is

369
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,960
small batch, but single origin
also.

370
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:48,480
So it's not just a small
shipment from a huge shipment,

371
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:50,280
right?
A small batch in single origin.

372
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,760
So they'll all be coming from
one particular Grove of trees

373
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:57,600
that we've seen and know that
they are planted in the optimal

374
00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,080
area rather, you know, wildly
growing in their optimal

375
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:02,720
habitat.
And the leaves are only being

376
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,000
harvested, you know, every four
months as opposed to every two

377
00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:07,600
months.
And, and all of these factors

378
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,800
that lead to a great kratom and
trying to just communicate to

379
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,920
people that most of the kratom
that enters the US is coming in

380
00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:20,600
2040 ton container shipments.
And to fulfill a container order

381
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,680
like that, it's going to be, you
know, 2 to maybe 500 different

382
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,240
kratom collectors, growers,
harvesters, etcetera, that are

383
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:34,480
pooling their crop to fulfill
this massive 2040 ton container

384
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:37,600
shipment.
And it's amazing that kratom has

385
00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,000
become more popular in the US
and around the world.

386
00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,800
It's helping so many people.
This is an incredible thing, but

387
00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,440
it is also a double edged sword.
And this, you know, large demand

388
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,440
of kratom has caused a lot of
corners to be cut where you

389
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,040
have, let's say 500 different,
you know, small kratom

390
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,960
collectors pooling their crop
for this massive order.

391
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,080
And you know, maybe 50% of them
are picking the leaf at the

392
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:02,760
right time, letting it really
mature.

393
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,760
The trees are planted or, you
know, wild harvested from the

394
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,960
correct areas and it's super
high quality.

395
00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:10,320
But then the other half maybe
just, you know, you're getting

396
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:13,560
paid by the kilo and you're just
ripping them off and God knows

397
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:17,120
what's in there and it's all
gets mixed together, which

398
00:23:17,120 --> 00:23:19,560
really brings down the quality.
And then a forty ton container

399
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,440
shipment might take years to
fully process through the system

400
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,320
in the US and warehouses and
different vendors to actually

401
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,600
reach the final consumer.
So, you know, the Cortana you're

402
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:32,160
getting might be, you know,
years old and from this

403
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,440
enormous, enormous batch as
opposed to just being from 1,

404
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:39,560
you know, particular Grove of
wild trees, for example, where

405
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,240
it's going to be harvested
regularly and a lot of care and

406
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,000
attention is placed on that.
That is so interesting.

407
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:50,800
So I think as just me, a typical
cream consumer, it's something I

408
00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,920
have no knowledge about.
And it makes sense that when

409
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:57,920
it's, you know, the big
companies and these big

410
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,080
shipments that, you know, it is
a process.

411
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,440
It's got to get shipped all the
way over here.

412
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:06,000
It's got to be quarantined.
They got to do the testing and

413
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:10,320
that can take a long time.
So by you all doing small batch,

414
00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,640
single origin, you're, you're
basically saying that you can

415
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:15,960
move through the process.
You're not cutting corners, of

416
00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,120
course, but you're able to do
this faster.

417
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:23,480
So there's a fresher product.
Yeah, exactly.

418
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,160
Yeah, What we're always going
for is that really bright green

419
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:30,000
color that really.
Yeah, really punchy, looks like

420
00:24:30,000 --> 00:24:33,440
matcha.
And yeah, that's the first

421
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,840
Craton that I had encountered.
And it's so surprising to me

422
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,760
sometimes when I'll see like
Craton for sale around, which

423
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,200
has got this like sad dark Gray
color.

424
00:24:42,600 --> 00:24:44,840
And then people are surprised
that they don't like the flavor

425
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:46,920
of it.
And you know, when you have a

426
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,440
really bright, beautiful, bold
green Craton, it's got that

427
00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:56,920
really tasty matcha flavor that
that I really appreciate.

428
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,280
And that means that it's fresh
and it's alive and it's.

429
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,800
Yeah, it's just straight from
the source.

430
00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:06,000
Yeah, I've definitely have
noticed a different when I'm

431
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,400
excited to, I make mine as a
little swamp water tea.

432
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:10,720
I don't like doing the toss and
wash, but I also don't want to

433
00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:14,240
like sip it and make a big tea.
I just like to mix up enough hot

434
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,240
water or warm water to mix the
powder and just let it cool off

435
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,480
a bit.
And for the longest time I was

436
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,520
just drinking it hot with orange
juice and that's so gross to me.

437
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,720
It is.
But I like cool off a while,

438
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,160
then I'll add some cold juice
and it's not that bad and I

439
00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:30,720
drink it really fast and I get
my pain relief, which I love.

440
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:34,640
But I definitely notice a
difference with certain

441
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:39,880
companies, certain batches and
with your Kratom, Jaya Kratom, I

442
00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:43,760
definitely can see that
freshness and that how is

443
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,880
different from most other ones.
And not to say good, bad or

444
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:50,680
indifferent, but like it's
interesting how it seems like

445
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,600
small batch kratom companies,
the way they're doing things,

446
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,560
getting it fresher.
I can see a bit of a difference

447
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:02,040
for me as that in consumer
who's, you know, using it.

448
00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:05,320
So yeah, it's just.
We always tell people it is a

449
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:08,800
bitter plant, right?
It will always have that strong

450
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,360
bitter flavor, but that doesn't
mean that it can't.

451
00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,600
Also depends on the individual.
Everybody's got a very different

452
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,480
palette, but if it's been
harvested at the right time and

453
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:21,720
it's been dried really carefully
and it's fresh and bright green,

454
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,200
should have notes of matcha of
tea, it should also be fresh.

455
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:29,680
And you can really tell that.
And then also, I believe also

456
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:33,240
feel it in the effects when it's
really, really fresh, high

457
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,760
quality kratom like that.
And yeah, I'm glad you've

458
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:38,720
noticed and are appreciating
that as well.

459
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,960
Absolutely, and what's
interesting with y'all's

460
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,040
products is that you even have
it on the package, you know a

461
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,480
15, this is coming from a 15
year old tree or you have one

462
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,760
that's like 50 plus.
And it's like the first time I

463
00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,800
used the kratom that said 50
plus.

464
00:26:54,040 --> 00:26:57,400
I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm about
to consume kratom off off of a

465
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,240
tree that is 50 at least 50
years old.

466
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:02,720
That to me was mind blowing
because you don't hear about

467
00:27:02,720 --> 00:27:05,160
that in the industry.
You don't hear about the I mean,

468
00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:07,960
maybe I'm just geeky.
I find it interesting.

469
00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,080
So talk a little what about
that, How things are being

470
00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:16,160
harvested, the age of the tree,
how this all make a difference

471
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,200
for us in consumers?
That's a great question.

472
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:22,000
So we work pretty much
exclusively everything except

473
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,800
for our red currently is all
wild harvested.

474
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,400
And we find that that makes a
really big difference because

475
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,960
the trees are going to be
planted, planted.

476
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,200
They occur in their ideal
natural habitat, right, which is

477
00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:37,320
along the banks of the river.
So we often hear about, you

478
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:40,960
know, the Kaplitz River is that
massive river where most of the

479
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,440
world's katama is coming from.
And the trees will be naturally

480
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040
occurring.
The wild katama trees are right

481
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,080
on the riverbanks where the tap
roots, the roots of the trees

482
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:55,120
can reach down and have
unlimited water, right?

483
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,120
They're water loving plants.
And then you also get the

484
00:27:58,120 --> 00:28:02,400
phenomenon that every year the
river will flood and overflow

485
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:07,880
the banks and deposit super
mineral rich, you know, silt.

486
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,560
And so that is basically the
natural fertilization process

487
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:15,440
that occurs out in Borneo.
And so if you're getting Kratom

488
00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:20,640
from these wild trees and their
perfect habitat like that, they

489
00:28:20,640 --> 00:28:23,640
are, you know, getting as much
water as they need and getting

490
00:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,640
this mineral rich fertilization
process.

491
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,200
And so that's where we'll notice
that the flavor will be a lot

492
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,160
better and the potency will be a
lot better.

493
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,560
And there's not necessarily a
direct correlation between age

494
00:28:36,560 --> 00:28:39,440
of tree and potency.
It's not that a a 25 year old

495
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,160
tree is always going to be more
potent than a 20 year old tree

496
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:46,880
and so on and so forth.
But what we do notice is that

497
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,000
these trees that are older and
in their natural habitat are

498
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,480
generally producing the best
quality Kratom.

499
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:57,640
And as the industry has has
evolved and become more popular,

500
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:01,920
we are seeing a lot of these
massive craton plantations where

501
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:03,840
the trees are planted too close
together.

502
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:07,840
They're all planted in rows and
then they'll often be harvested

503
00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:10,360
very frequently, right?
So like every two months.

504
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:13,520
And they might be coming from
trees that are, you know, two to

505
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,600
three years old.
And they haven't really had the

506
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,280
full amount of time to, to, to
mature and get a really, really

507
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:23,600
solid alkaloid package and to,
to be, you know, be fully ready,

508
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,640
ready for harvest, I would say.
And on top of that, if a, if

509
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,960
trees are planted in suboptimal
conditions or too close together

510
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,320
or in poor soil, and they'll be
more vulnerable to, to pests and

511
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:43,120
then farmers will tend to use
pesticides to, to, you know,

512
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:47,600
combat that problem.
And so we do test for 60

513
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,280
different pesticides, but there
would be no reason anyway for

514
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,880
these farmers to use these
pesticides because the trees are

515
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,640
really, really resistant to any
pests and caterpillars etcetera

516
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,240
if they're plant, if they are
growing naturally in the optimal

517
00:30:05,240 --> 00:30:08,880
conditions cause the alkaloids
repel the the pests.

518
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:13,400
So yeah, the reason we test for
pesticides still is because it's

519
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:16,440
on the river.
So any run off from a farm

520
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:20,680
upstream that could happen.
We don't want that in, but you

521
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:26,720
can tell more of an issue.
You know, for years everything

522
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:29,680
we have comes from growers we
know and from land we spent a

523
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,600
lot of time on.
And there's absolutely no

524
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,560
fertilizer, there's no
pesticides being used.

525
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,800
But of course, it's nice to also
see that and see, you know, 62

526
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:37,920
different.
Pesticides, right?

527
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,200
Tested for with none of that.
And that is something that we

528
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,840
really do, you know, are kind of
concerned about in the kratom

529
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:47,160
industry is as it grows and
there are more of these large

530
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:52,800
kratom plantations, there is
more likelihood that pesticides

531
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:54,520
are being used.
And this is something that we

532
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:58,080
saw time and time again where we
would go to different kratom

533
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:01,960
farms and be walking around and
we can speak a bit of Indonesian

534
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,440
pretty decently and talking with
people in Indonesian and talking

535
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,040
to the growers and the workers
and you know, asking them, are

536
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:09,800
you guys, what are you using
here in terms of fertilizers,

537
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:12,160
pesticides, insecticides,
herbicides, etcetera.

538
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:15,720
And the answer is, you know,
always Oh no, no, it's totally

539
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:18,040
natural.
We're not using everything here.

540
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,720
And it happened time time again
that then, you know, you're

541
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,480
launching around the kratom
fields and finding these packets

542
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,720
on the ground and there's like
empty pesticide packets all over

543
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:31,680
the place.
And so that's something that I

544
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:33,440
think people should really be
careful for.

545
00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,600
Just consume kratom.
That's, you know, that's been

546
00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,360
tested for pesticides, I would
say is the safest thing because

547
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,440
of course pesticides can be used
responsibly, right?

548
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,760
They they, they can be, they can
be used in the correct way, in

549
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,480
the correct dose for the correct
crop.

550
00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,960
A concern we have though, is
that, you know, the people that

551
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,680
are potentially applying these
pesticides on some of these big

552
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:59,040
commercial cotton plantations
are not trained in agriculture

553
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:02,560
necessarily and, and how to use
these and are are also

554
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,680
potentially not using the
correct pesticide for a plant

555
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,040
that you're ingesting the actual
leaf, right?

556
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,280
So you might have something
that's intended for the outside

557
00:32:11,280 --> 00:32:13,720
of an orange or in the outside
of a banana peel.

558
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,120
That's, you know, part of the
fruit that's not actually

559
00:32:16,120 --> 00:32:20,400
consumed, but that then could be
being applied to the leaf close

560
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,720
to harvest.
And that's not, you know, being

561
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,240
washed off and everything like
that.

562
00:32:25,240 --> 00:32:28,200
So I think for us, that's been,
you know, the really valuable

563
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:31,200
thing of spending tons of time
on the ground and actually like,

564
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,840
you know, going around and
seeing things first hand and

565
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:37,040
also having a lot of funny
instances where you're walking

566
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,240
through someone's field and
they've told you it's all

567
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:41,280
organic.
And then we love to just, you

568
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:44,400
know, eat fresh Kitam leaves to
try and get an idea of of the

569
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,040
quality and the potency.
And I've had, you know, multiple

570
00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:49,320
instances of people stopping us
then and being like, actually,

571
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:51,360
wait, wait, we need to wash
these like we did use I.

572
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:53,560
Don't.
Know we did use some stuff on

573
00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,760
there so.
Oh wow, interesting.

574
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,720
To your initial question about
the old trees that put this

575
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,320
photo behind us of 50 year old
trees, maybe I'll send you a

576
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,960
photo that if you can put it up
on the screen for.

577
00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:10,440
Absolutely.
Really cool to share.

578
00:33:10,440 --> 00:33:12,960
But yeah, Cratom trees get
absolutely massive.

579
00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:19,800
And on our latest trip to Borneo
last year is when we found these

580
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,240
50 year old cratom trees with
our friend who is, you know,

581
00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:25,240
telling us he knew these really
old trees.

582
00:33:25,240 --> 00:33:27,920
And with his grandfather, we
went out into the into the

583
00:33:27,920 --> 00:33:30,760
jungle, like bushwhacking
through this, like really deep,

584
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:34,400
deep, intense jungle.
And they took us to a little

585
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:36,800
group of massive old Kratom
trees.

586
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:40,200
And we were asking about the age
of them and went to the biggest

587
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,680
one.
And the grandfather said, like,

588
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:47,240
oh, I, I don't know exactly how
old it is, but I'm 70 and this

589
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,000
one's been here since I was a
child.

590
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,640
So it must be, must be about the
same age as me.

591
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:55,880
So that was a really cool
experience.

592
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,480
And then we're asking them like,
oh, would it be possible for you

593
00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,120
guys to get us a harvest from
these trees?

594
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:06,040
And they're saying like, yeah,
we'd love to, but we can't get

595
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,920
up there like that, just too
big.

596
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:12,679
So they we talked about it with
them for a while and they said,

597
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:16,000
OK, if you guys can get us some
operas equipment so we can climb

598
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:19,360
up there safely, then we'll make
you harvest.

599
00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,960
And so that harvest that you
had, the 50 year old wild is

600
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:26,560
actually the first ever harvest
from those trees.

601
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,840
And yeah, the very first time
those leaves were ever picked.

602
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:33,880
So that's something we're
really, really happy to have

603
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,280
been able to facilitate is the
safe harvest of these incredible

604
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,440
trees, which we're now onto our
second harvest of them because,

605
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:44,920
yeah, they grow back really
fast.

606
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,960
The leaves just pop back out.
That's incredible.

607
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:53,040
So you provided the tools they
needed so they could go harvest

608
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:57,160
off of this really old tree that
had, I guess, not been harvested

609
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,960
before, right?
Or at least not recently because

610
00:34:59,960 --> 00:35:02,240
of its age and how big it is.
Yeah.

611
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:05,560
Yeah, it's interesting.
So a lot of the kind of big

612
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,800
Kratom plantation style things
or Kratom farms, you might see

613
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,960
it's gonna look kind of more
like an apple orchard size with

614
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:19,280
kind of small shrubby, maybe
apple tree sized Kratom trees.

615
00:35:19,920 --> 00:35:23,320
So that's a lot of what you see.
And you can travel the, the, the

616
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,200
banks of the Kapowitz River for
for hours and hours and hours

617
00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:30,240
and see for Tom growing either
wild or planted along those

618
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:31,520
riverbanks.
And a lot of them are quite

619
00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:34,640
small because they, you know,
it's a, it's a, it's a growing

620
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:38,000
industry and people are just
kind of starting to, to, to

621
00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:40,520
plant more and to try and meet
the demands and everything.

622
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,960
And then we can also, you know,
send you a photo of, yeah, the

623
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:48,960
15 + 2025 year old wild trees
that we get a lot of our, our

624
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:50,760
leaves from.
And those ones, they'll make

625
00:35:50,760 --> 00:35:54,320
ladders, you know, with bamboo.
And it's like a 3040 foot tree

626
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,160
and it can be safely climbed
with a ladder and you can get up

627
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,400
there.
But yeah, these ones were, were

628
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:01,880
a whole, a whole different
story.

629
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:05,120
And it's incredible to, to see
that, you know, Kratom trees

630
00:36:05,240 --> 00:36:09,560
when they're 507080 years old,
you, you can't wrap your arms

631
00:36:09,560 --> 00:36:11,560
around them.
They're full-sized, enormous

632
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:15,080
trees, 80 feet tall.
They get absolutely huge.

633
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:18,800
And it's, it's such a, such a
beautiful thing to, to go, to go

634
00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:21,600
out and manage to find one in
the wild and, and to hear about

635
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:25,200
also, you know, the villagers
knowing about it and, and, and

636
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,320
having it, you know, be part of
their, the legacy of their

637
00:36:27,320 --> 00:36:30,440
village and everything.
What was it like the first time

638
00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:33,520
you try to leaf from one of
those from that particular tree

639
00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:37,080
that that was that old?
Well, we weren't able to try

640
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:39,400
the, the leaves from that
particular tree when we were

641
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:43,360
actually, because we were there
last winter and we didn't have

642
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,280
the, the, the, you know, the
harnesses and the arborist

643
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:46,800
equipment to actually get up
there at the time.

644
00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,520
So we, we, you know, found some
old ones that had fallen from

645
00:36:49,520 --> 00:36:52,320
the tree on the ground and tried
those, but we weren't able to

646
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:54,240
try any from this particular
Grove.

647
00:36:54,240 --> 00:36:59,400
We found maybe about, you know,
6 to 12 of these massive trees

648
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,720
that were like, you know, in the
50 to 70 plus year old range,

649
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:07,280
but of course really do just
enjoying, enjoy chewing kratom

650
00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:09,400
leaves fresh.
People always ask about that,

651
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:13,760
'cause we have kratom trees
growing in our shop in Portland

652
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,760
here we have a number of them.
We used to sell them.

653
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:21,880
We stopped because we we ran out
and also the care is quite

654
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:23,480
challenging.
But we have a number of cartama

655
00:37:23,480 --> 00:37:25,960
trees growing in our shop.
So people are always asking

656
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,240
about that and asking if they
can pick one and and two.

657
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,880
On that, that is so cool.
I bet.

658
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:33,080
What's the experience like?
I've always I've heard people

659
00:37:33,080 --> 00:37:34,480
talk about, you know, chewing
the leaf.

660
00:37:35,120 --> 00:37:38,560
I've never done it.
I'm I'm sure it's a different

661
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:40,200
experience, right?
I mean, not completely

662
00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:41,880
different, but I imagine it's a
bit different.

663
00:37:42,920 --> 00:37:46,680
Yeah, so it's a lot more bitter.
What you do is you pull the stem

664
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:51,680
out and then we'll just like
roll it and then chew it and

665
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:57,160
then you can spit out the the
green or the the leaf matter.

666
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:01,720
It's a lot more bitter.
So if you find the the powder

667
00:38:01,720 --> 00:38:07,640
bitter, then you're in for a
treat with the but it's really

668
00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:11,280
wonderful because one of the
main applications of kratom in

669
00:38:12,240 --> 00:38:14,680
in Southeast Asia is because
it's so hot and people are

670
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:18,120
working so hard, you'll often
see like craton trees growing

671
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:22,680
next to the rice paddies.
So people pick craton, chew it

672
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,240
whilst they're working in the
rice paddies.

673
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:27,280
And it really helps to deal with
the heat and the exhaustion of,

674
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,400
you know, working in this
intense heat and humidity.

675
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:36,400
So it feels very appropriate to
be consuming the kratom straight

676
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,920
from the tree, kind of kind of
like the experience of picking a

677
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,800
cherry straight from the Cherry
Tree and eating it there and

678
00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,960
then always tastes better than
when it comes from from the

679
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,800
store.
The only issue is we've done a

680
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,600
lot of, you know, shooting
videos and and photos and

681
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,800
interviews with the farmers and
the growers out like that and

682
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:59,200
having so many takes where we
have, you know, a big chunk of

683
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,560
kratom leaf stuck in our tea
trying to film an interview and

684
00:39:03,560 --> 00:39:06,840
and having a lot of footage
ruined by chewing kratom leaves

685
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:09,160
in the field.
So that is that is the one

686
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:11,400
downside.
I would say, yeah, I do.

687
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:14,800
I do think given the choice,
brewing up a little cup of

688
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,840
kratom tea is is the way to go,
but.

689
00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:20,200
Right.
Don't have videos online of your

690
00:39:20,200 --> 00:39:23,160
trips over there.
Not so much, no.

691
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:24,920
We have like.
A you can check out our, our

692
00:39:24,920 --> 00:39:27,040
Instagram.
So we do have some stuff on our

693
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:31,640
Instagram and then a little bit
on our website in the journal

694
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,560
section.
You can see some of our, our

695
00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,080
sources and everything there and
in, in the shop and the product

696
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,760
page.
And then we do have tons and

697
00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,840
tons and tons hours and hours
and hours of video and interview

698
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,200
and footage and things that, you
know, quite honestly, we really,

699
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:49,000
really, really need to get to
editing and releasing to the

700
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,000
public because we have stuff
going back to 2019, Malaysia,

701
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,400
Thailand, Indonesia, all of
these trips.

702
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:59,840
We are really small team and we
are working in the shop, we're

703
00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:02,200
working in the warehouse, we're
packaging.

704
00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:06,440
We are, yeah, a very small team.
And admittedly, you really need

705
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,800
to get to actually releasing
some of these things to the

706
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,400
public.
I would love to see some of

707
00:40:10,400 --> 00:40:11,840
that.
You probably have enough to make

708
00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:13,960
a documentary it sounds like
with the amount of.

709
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:19,120
Food, yeah, definitely.
But yeah, hopefully we'll be

710
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:22,840
releasing more fairly soon.
Yeah, if you I mean, if you want

711
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,240
to send me a couple of clips
that I, that I can, you know, my

712
00:40:25,240 --> 00:40:28,640
kratom gals live stream, I play
all kinds of different videos I

713
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,040
come across online, usually from
YouTube and TikTok.

714
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:36,520
And I love when I uncover videos
on YouTube from Indonesia of

715
00:40:36,520 --> 00:40:39,280
like the trees, the farmers and
stuff.

716
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,360
We don't see it all the time,
but it's super interesting and

717
00:40:42,360 --> 00:40:44,520
we always love watching footage
like that.

718
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,320
So if you ever have like even
just you know, just something

719
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,120
where it's just like a clip that
I could share, that'd be really

720
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:54,680
cool because we all love it.
We love seeing like, where does

721
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,560
this come from?
Yeah, absolutely.

722
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,320
I will definitely find some some
things to send over to you.

723
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,240
Yeah, definitely we have shorter
form, you know several minutes,

724
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:05,760
5 minutes, things like that,
like prepared that it would be,

725
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:09,560
it would be fun to watch and.
Absolutely, I'll definitely link

726
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:11,880
in the show notes to your
Instagram.

727
00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,960
Is are y'all just using
Instagram at this time?

728
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,000
Is there any other social media?
Yeah, we mainly just use

729
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,000
Instagram because, well, for
people who are in Portland, OR,

730
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,800
we have our brick and mortar.
And so that's really a space of

731
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:29,240
education as much as it is our
store.

732
00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:33,400
So that's actually the ideal
place to come into if you want

733
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:36,360
to see more about kratom and see
a kratom tree.

734
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:39,800
And actually at the moment,
we've got our kratom trees of

735
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:43,960
flowering for the very first
time and they're currently four

736
00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:44,920
years old.
And.

737
00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:48,280
Yeah, all of them has just
sprung out a bunch of really

738
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:53,800
beautiful yellow flowers.
So yeah, we have our seeds of

739
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:56,720
our first for Tom from Portland,
OR.

740
00:41:57,520 --> 00:41:59,920
That is so neat.
You definitely got to send me

741
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,360
pictures of that, that is.
Awesome, you can you can put.

742
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,320
Because you don't see that very
often.

743
00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:08,600
We just see the leaves on the
tree, but not usually the flower

744
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,880
all that much.
Yeah, beautiful, beautiful

745
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:13,760
golden yellow flowers.
And the interesting thing as

746
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:15,680
well is that they smell
phenomenal.

747
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:21,320
It's like this incredible
Jasmine floral scent.

748
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,520
And in Borneo in Southeast Asia,
you'll have the katam fields.

749
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:27,960
And when many of the trees are
flowering, you also get tons of

750
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:32,320
honey bees that come and collect
the pollen from the kratoms.

751
00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,680
In theory, you could have, you
know, kratom pollen, honey.

752
00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:39,680
But yeah, when they were just
emerging in our shop last week,

753
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:43,040
it smelled phenomenal in there.
And yeah, it's really fun to

754
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,440
see.
We we planted these kratom trees

755
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:50,800
from sea weeds that that we got
from out in the wild in Borneo.

756
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:56,400
And it was quite a process to to
grow them in cold climate in

757
00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:58,120
Portland.
And it's a really interesting

758
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:02,320
plant to try and take out of its
native habitat and to get to,

759
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,000
you know, acclimatize and
succeed growing indoors.

760
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,480
But yeah, as I mean, he was
saying now they're on their on

761
00:43:09,480 --> 00:43:14,240
their fourth year and are, are
pretty massive 1215 foot for Tom

762
00:43:14,240 --> 00:43:17,720
trees that we soon need to to
give a little trim cuz they're

763
00:43:17,720 --> 00:43:20,400
starting to hit the, the roof of
our of our shop.

764
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,240
Yeah, the ceiling.
Wow, that is wild.

765
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:26,360
I have a question.
So at what point in your journey

766
00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,160
with kratom did you decide, hey,
let's do this as a business?

767
00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,920
Like, let's actually go be a
part of this industry.

768
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:37,240
Well, that's interesting.
Yeah, Cuz we had, we actually

769
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:41,240
initially had absolutely no
interest in opening a company

770
00:43:41,240 --> 00:43:44,640
and we were just very attached
to our traveling lifestyle and

771
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,000
enjoyed and loved living out in
Indonesia.

772
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,640
And it was actually a lot of
hard work on behalf of the

773
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:57,240
farmers who were telling us
everyday you guys like we have

774
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,400
spent so much time out here and
know so much more than anything

775
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,920
you'll find online.
You guys should really start a

776
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,480
company.
And they worked on us for a long

777
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:09,960
time.
And we're also really keen to be

778
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:12,720
in partnership with us because,
you know, we had a great

779
00:44:12,720 --> 00:44:14,920
relationship with them and so
and there's a lot of trust

780
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:19,400
between us.
So yeah, they eventually pushed

781
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:24,080
us to to taking that path, which
really could have gone either

782
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:29,240
way for us.
But yeah, it was not that long

783
00:44:29,240 --> 00:44:32,400
after our first research trip
that we decided that we would

784
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:37,280
start Jaya and move back to the
US in the middle of COVID,

785
00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,360
actually to get started on the
project.

786
00:44:42,120 --> 00:44:45,120
Well, that was a challenging
time to to be doing anything.

787
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:48,520
Wow, that is interesting.
Did you decide on a storefront

788
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:53,240
first or just being an on online
retail like like which came

789
00:44:53,240 --> 00:44:57,440
first online or or store?
Well, so we decided recently at

790
00:44:57,440 --> 00:45:01,000
first that we wanted to do a, a
brick and mortar store and then

791
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,280
naturally online was was an
obvious addition to that.

792
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:07,440
But what?
Yeah, but we were really excited

793
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,480
about doing a brick and mortar
store was the ability to

794
00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:14,280
actually just spend time with
people face to face talking

795
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:18,520
about our research, showing them
photos, showing them the Katam

796
00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:21,720
trees.
And yeah, really having our shop

797
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:25,080
be a space of education.
And of course it's a business,

798
00:45:25,080 --> 00:45:29,840
but that's kind of first and
foremost what it is for us is a

799
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:33,840
education space, almost like a a
Museum of Katam, you could say.

800
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:37,240
And we're located on a really
central St., a very busy St.

801
00:45:37,240 --> 00:45:40,120
here in Portland.
And we are constantly getting

802
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:44,760
people coming in that either
know kratom and are really,

803
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,400
really excited about it and are
into that.

804
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,440
But we also get tons and tons
and tons of people that are

805
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:55,080
passing by and either they have
no idea what it is and they're

806
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,640
just fascinated to see a
business exist that they don't

807
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,840
have any clue what's being sold.
So coming in with no knowledge

808
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,840
of the plant and we can educate
them on it and give them proper

809
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,000
real information about this
plant and dispel a lot of the

810
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:10,000
myths and not be selling all
kinds of crazy strains and

811
00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:11,360
things like that that don't
exist.

812
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:14,480
And then we but then we also get
a lot of people that come in

813
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,440
that that have heard about
khatam, but I've heard about it

814
00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:19,680
in a negative way.
And so for us, that's kind of

815
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:22,360
like our personal mission and,
and what we love doing is, is

816
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,560
having people come in and be
like, yeah, you know, I've seen

817
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:28,760
this in head shops and gas
stations or I saw a news article

818
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,040
about this.
And I, you know, I'm kind of

819
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,120
skeptical about it.
I have a lot of questions about

820
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,880
it.
Like maybe you can, you know,

821
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,000
you can give me some information
about it.

822
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,560
And so that's what we love about
having this ability to talk to

823
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,600
people face to face and show
them, hey, this isn't a, a weird

824
00:46:43,600 --> 00:46:47,520
synthetic product or this isn't
any sort of, you know, yeah,

825
00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:49,680
this isn't some sort of strange
drug.

826
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,840
This is the leaf of this tree.
It has hundreds of years of

827
00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,360
traditional usage.
These are the communities that

828
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,880
use it.
This is how it's used.

829
00:46:58,240 --> 00:47:01,600
These are the lab tests.
These are the alkaloids so on

830
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:04,000
and so forth.
So I think for us, we, yeah, we

831
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,400
have online and we have in
store.

832
00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,560
But it's, it's so nice the, the
experience you have with the

833
00:47:08,560 --> 00:47:11,320
physical business to just get
random people stumble across you

834
00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:16,920
and to, to get to, to get a
really in depth view of what

835
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:20,160
Cortana is and, and, and then
share that.

836
00:47:20,160 --> 00:47:22,280
So that's what we really enjoy
ourselves.

837
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:24,840
I think education is so
important.

838
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:28,160
I love that y'all are big on
that and that you use your

839
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,600
storefront and your website to
just share information to help

840
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:33,840
people.
And there is so much

841
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,080
misinformation.
That's why I have my weekly live

842
00:47:36,080 --> 00:47:39,320
stream, why I do the kratom
gals, because I can't get over

843
00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:42,000
how much misinformation and
propaganda is out there.

844
00:47:42,240 --> 00:47:46,320
And I feel like we've got to
talk about it, to turn it around

845
00:47:46,640 --> 00:47:50,320
and talk about like, OK, the
media got it wrong.

846
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:52,720
Let's explain like what the
actual truth is.

847
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:55,400
You just get people talking and
I just love that you're

848
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,400
educating your community on on
kratom.

849
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,480
Do people come in pretty often
that are just like you said,

850
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:03,160
like they hear the negative
stuff.

851
00:48:03,320 --> 00:48:06,440
I'm sure they walk away going,
Oh my gosh, this, this, this is

852
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,240
an amazing plant after hearing
you'll talk about it, but are

853
00:48:09,240 --> 00:48:11,360
there a lot of people that do
just like they're just hearing

854
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:13,680
so much misinformation.
They come in your store to learn

855
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:14,880
more.
Yeah.

856
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:17,200
So I guess there's one
particular instance that comes

857
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,400
to mind in that regard of this
woman coming in a little

858
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,760
flustered and she comes in and
she's like, my daughter's been

859
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:29,520
taking for Tom to and she says
it's helping her get off, get

860
00:48:29,520 --> 00:48:31,200
off some.
I think it was some opioid that

861
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,600
her daughter had dependence on.
She said, oh, she's been using

862
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:37,440
it and she says it's helping,
but I've read some sketchy stuff

863
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:41,160
online and I'm not like, I'm not
really sure what to think.

864
00:48:41,240 --> 00:48:45,240
And so can you guys tell me
about it and answer my questions

865
00:48:45,240 --> 00:48:48,160
so that I can, you know, make
sure my daughter's making right

866
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:50,040
choices.
And so we're able to sit down

867
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,360
with her and explain to her the
insurance and outs of kratom and

868
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:59,480
how it's used and what to look
out for and, you know, what to

869
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,840
think about when trying to buy
kratom and how to, you know,

870
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:08,000
stay away from extracts or 7
hydroxymetrazine and keep her

871
00:49:08,000 --> 00:49:12,320
on, you know, reassure her and
also educate her on what her

872
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,680
daughter was taking.
She was not able to find good

873
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,800
information online.
And yes, she walked away really

874
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:21,040
reassured and was like, hey, I'm
going to send my daughter here

875
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,560
because you guys know what
you're doing.

876
00:49:22,560 --> 00:49:24,560
And so it's that kind of
instance.

877
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:26,160
It really, you know, it's very
uplifting.

878
00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,800
It's very nice to be there for
people who need somebody to

879
00:49:29,800 --> 00:49:34,080
answer questions.
And then other other times it's

880
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:38,520
been, you know, people's people
whose partners or family members

881
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,760
have some stigma against kratom.
And so one of our customers will

882
00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,640
bring in that person just
pretending like it's all just

883
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,120
going to stop by and pick up
some kratom.

884
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,400
And then we'll explain to them
about the plant and the whole

885
00:49:51,400 --> 00:49:54,120
history and everything.
And you know, it's happened a

886
00:49:54,120 --> 00:49:57,720
few times that that our customer
will come back and be like, oh,

887
00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:02,000
my wife actually tried Kratom
after after visiting you.

888
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:05,080
And now they're cool with it and
they're fine with it and they've

889
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:08,560
understood really what I see in
it and what's what I'm going

890
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:11,200
for.
So yeah, it's really important

891
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,240
to be able to speak to people
face to face and have that

892
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:17,120
trusting relationship.
And especially when you can show

893
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:20,560
people the tree and just be
like, this is it, you know, and

894
00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:24,080
it's just just a leaf that's
dried and ground down and

895
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:27,400
that's, that's the end product.
Yeah.

896
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,240
And and share your thoughts
about leaf versus extracts.

897
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:32,400
What are y'all's thoughts on
that?

898
00:50:33,080 --> 00:50:37,160
Well, we only work with with
crushed leaf kratom, with powder

899
00:50:37,160 --> 00:50:42,080
kratom, with whole leaf kratom.
I think for us, if you can have

900
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:49,240
really fresh, really potent
kratom, that's I wouldn't say

901
00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:51,040
necessarily enough, but you
know, like that's that's what we

902
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:56,040
focus on, right, is just seeing
how good you can get this

903
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:58,680
natural product.
Of course I think extracts have

904
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:00,600
a have a place for certain
folks.

905
00:51:01,920 --> 00:51:05,080
Full spectrum extracts.
Not saying 7 Odoximetrageny and

906
00:51:05,080 --> 00:51:07,600
that's a whole different topic
cuz that is not kratom.

907
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:11,640
Yeah, that the whole leaf kratom
has so many different alkaloids

908
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:15,280
that have wonderfully balanced
by nature and that the body

909
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,600
really knows how to receive and
what to do with it and it's

910
00:51:18,600 --> 00:51:24,400
accompanied by these this like
plant fibre and polyphenols and

911
00:51:25,840 --> 00:51:28,680
just.
A very high antioxidant

912
00:51:28,680 --> 00:51:30,640
concentration in the whole leaf
itself.

913
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,160
So I think that that's, that's
one thing.

914
00:51:33,360 --> 00:51:35,840
You know, I studied history from
a historical standpoint.

915
00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:39,480
When people come in and they ask
me about safety and kratom,

916
00:51:39,480 --> 00:51:40,600
right?
We can't make medical

917
00:51:40,600 --> 00:51:42,720
recommendations.
I'm not a doctor.

918
00:51:42,720 --> 00:51:46,040
Kratom is not FDA approved.
I can't give you medical advice,

919
00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:47,840
right?
What I can tell you is from a

920
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,160
historical standpoint, from
communities we've met in

921
00:51:51,160 --> 00:51:55,000
Malaysia, Thailand, Indonesia,
etcetera, that kratom has been

922
00:51:55,000 --> 00:51:59,200
used in its whole leaf natural
form for hundreds of years,

923
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:01,920
right?
And we've personally spent time

924
00:52:01,920 --> 00:52:06,040
with somebody who is a Thai
gentleman who was 91 years old

925
00:52:06,040 --> 00:52:09,440
and had been consuming kratom
since I think the late 40s when

926
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:13,600
he was like 16 years old and
it'd been consuming kratom every

927
00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:15,560
day.
We'll send you a photo of this

928
00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:20,720
guy 'cause he was absolutely
just the most bright eyed, kind,

929
00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:24,200
amazing 91 year old, an amazing
health of that that we'd ever

930
00:52:24,200 --> 00:52:26,640
met.
But anyways, from a historical

931
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,960
standpoint, we see that Cortam
in its natural form has hundreds

932
00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:31,760
of years of safe traditional
usage, right.

933
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:35,760
We can't say the same thing
necessarily for like super

934
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:40,400
high-powered extracts and, and,
and how, you know, the body

935
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,000
handles that if it's just a, a
particular, one particular

936
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,080
alkaloid and all that.
So, so just for just general

937
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,600
kind of safety reasons and just
because that's what we

938
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,200
specialize in, we just work
with, with holy for Tom.

939
00:52:52,200 --> 00:52:54,680
But obviously recognize, you
know, people use the plant for a

940
00:52:54,680 --> 00:52:57,880
lot of different reasons and and
you know, there's a, there's a

941
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:01,040
space for everything depending
upon, you know, what the

942
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:03,760
application is and, and the
need, right?

943
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,280
Yeah.
And then what are y'all thoughts

944
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:10,040
on the whole strange thing?
You know, companies all say

945
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,840
different things about it as
consumers are like, OK, make it

946
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,920
make sense.
One group says one thing,

947
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,080
another group says the other.
What are y'all thoughts on that?

948
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,080
Well, so I think that that there
were two main questions that we

949
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:22,800
wanted to answer when we went
out and we got this research

950
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,640
funding to study Cortana
cultivation, right.

951
00:53:24,640 --> 00:53:27,960
So the first one is what's up
with batching consistency?

952
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,440
Why are there great batches and
then not great batches, right?

953
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,800
And batches that do very little.
So what's going on with the

954
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:36,600
batching consistency?
How can we solve that?

955
00:53:36,960 --> 00:53:41,040
And then secondly, yeah, what's
happening with strains and a lot

956
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:43,320
of these topics that are very
contentious and there's a lot of

957
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:45,280
just conflicting information,
quite simply.

958
00:53:46,560 --> 00:53:49,000
But yeah, so katam strains
really do not exist.

959
00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,840
There is just one type of katam
tree growing fundamentally.

960
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:55,480
I think one of the most kind of
funny and evocative stories of

961
00:53:55,480 --> 00:53:59,440
that was when we first went out
and we first arrived out in the

962
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:02,040
middle of Borneo.
And we're with these, you know,

963
00:54:02,040 --> 00:54:04,160
some of the first katam farms
that we were on.

964
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:08,680
And we're talking to these old
Indonesian guys that were the

965
00:54:08,680 --> 00:54:11,040
katam farmers there.
And we're saying like, so, OK,

966
00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:14,040
so tell me about your land here.
Tell me what's going on.

967
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,520
What what are the different
strains you're growing?

968
00:54:16,520 --> 00:54:17,680
You know, what do you have
growing here?

969
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:20,120
What do you have growing here?
Like, you know, give us a tour

970
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:24,120
of, of your operations and these
old Indonesian, you know, kratom

971
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:29,000
growers looking at us very
confused, like silly foreigners.

972
00:54:29,000 --> 00:54:31,320
What are you talking about?
Like, this is an old kratom

973
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:32,600
tree.
And they're like, yeah, those,

974
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:34,680
those are our neighbors kratom
trees.

975
00:54:34,680 --> 00:54:37,280
And that's a big one.
That's a small one.

976
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:40,960
This one is flowering.
And this notion of there being

977
00:54:40,960 --> 00:54:44,240
different strains just
completely was, was was going

978
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,400
over their head and they're.
Yeah.

979
00:54:47,400 --> 00:54:51,040
So you talk to the growers, the
people that are actually out

980
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:54,640
there growing kratom and have it
in their villages and, and

981
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:56,000
harvest it from the forest
there.

982
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:57,280
There's not different strains of
kratom.

983
00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,960
It's all about how the leaf is
dried and cured.

984
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,000
You can roast it into a red.
You can do varying levels of

985
00:55:04,000 --> 00:55:06,840
heat and light, humidity,
etcetera to create a much darker

986
00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:10,600
green or brighter green, more of
a tannish color for white.

987
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:13,040
So there's differences in the
curing methodology and that's

988
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,280
gonna oxidize and change some of
the alkaloids in the plant.

989
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:17,800
It's gonna change the flavor,
it's gonna change the energy

990
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:22,040
profile to a certain extent.
But so they will cure the

991
00:55:22,040 --> 00:55:23,680
leaves.
Different ways to create the

992
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:27,920
red, white, green distinction,
but you're not gonna ever find

993
00:55:27,920 --> 00:55:32,760
cratom growers with this patches
Dragon and this is Elephant and

994
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:35,640
this is Mangda and so on and so
forth.

995
00:55:35,880 --> 00:55:37,720
What you will find is different
phenotypes.

996
00:55:37,720 --> 00:55:39,680
So you will have occasionally A
photometry.

997
00:55:39,680 --> 00:55:44,240
You'll grow with a slightly
horned characteristic on the end

998
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:48,880
of the leaf, and then some will
have slightly more white veins,

999
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:53,200
slightly more red veins, and you
have this, You know, these

1000
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,800
phenotypes.
However, what's really important

1001
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:58,480
to bear in mind is that nobody
in their right mind is

1002
00:55:58,480 --> 00:56:01,680
separating leaves based on what
they look like because that

1003
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:07,240
would just be an endless task.
So you can receive a photograph

1004
00:56:07,240 --> 00:56:10,520
or like see a photograph of a
kratom leaf that looks very

1005
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:12,040
different from the next kratom
leaf.

1006
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:16,880
But that doesn't mean that.
But I mean, that's just used as

1007
00:56:16,880 --> 00:56:19,800
a marketing ploy to encourage
people to buy more different

1008
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:23,720
types with always encourage
people to, you know, try a few

1009
00:56:23,720 --> 00:56:28,160
different batches because they
might or green versus the red

1010
00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:33,600
might feel slightly different to
you or be more what you need.

1011
00:56:34,960 --> 00:56:39,400
But in there actually being, you
know, batches that are made of

1012
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:44,960
just horned leaves or just white
veins or just red veins, and

1013
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:48,640
that's basically unheard of.
Anybody who's going to put the

1014
00:56:48,760 --> 00:56:50,640
put the work in to make that
happen.

1015
00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:56,040
And we've been told in exactly
these words by folks is the more

1016
00:56:56,040 --> 00:56:59,240
strains that you offer, the more
people will buy.

1017
00:56:59,760 --> 00:57:04,400
So it's not a, you know, it's
just a marketing technique to

1018
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:08,680
make people place, you know, or
in order for 10 different types

1019
00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,000
instead of just one or two or
three.

1020
00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,680
So that's really what we found.
And then you enter into a whole

1021
00:57:15,680 --> 00:57:20,200
another question when it comes
to the different regions.

1022
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:27,200
So you'll see on the market, you
know, Malay, Thai, Indonesia,

1023
00:57:27,200 --> 00:57:30,960
Borneo, you see like all these
different names of locations or

1024
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:37,960
Bali, there's really only kratom
coming out of Borneo in

1025
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:43,880
significant amounts right now.
So even in we looked all over

1026
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,400
Vietnam, could not find any
kratom growing.

1027
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:51,040
You certainly don't have any
kratom coming out of Malaysia.

1028
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:54,920
So Malay Malaysian kratom,
there's absolutely no way with

1029
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,960
the, the, the laws currently in
Malaysia, there's certainly no

1030
00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:01,120
kratom being exported from
Malaysia.

1031
00:58:01,120 --> 00:58:03,000
So that's a big red flag.
We always tell people like

1032
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,880
Malaysian kratom, Malay kratom,
there's no way.

1033
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,360
And it's also not a different
tree.

1034
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,600
It's the same exact tree they
have growing there having spent

1035
00:58:10,600 --> 00:58:12,960
having spent time there.
Also Thai kratom is a big one.

1036
00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:15,800
That's it's quite an interesting
topic now because since 2021,

1037
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:19,440
kratom has fully legalized
kratom, which is which is

1038
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:23,560
amazing, but they're still
working out a lot of the

1039
00:58:23,600 --> 00:58:27,440
licenses for export.
There's still very little kratom

1040
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:29,160
actually being exported from
Thailand at the moment.

1041
00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,080
It's happening now, but prior to
2021, anything being sold is

1042
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,120
Thai kratom was mislabeled
coming from Borneo.

1043
00:58:37,120 --> 00:58:40,800
There was no exportation of Thai
kratom prior to the 2021.

1044
00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:42,800
So that's one, you know, we
always tell people to be aware

1045
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,440
of that.
Really, you know, 95% of the

1046
00:58:45,440 --> 00:58:48,440
world's kratom supplies coming
from from Borneo.

1047
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:52,080
And there's a lot of confusion
even amongst the islands of

1048
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:54,880
Indonesia, because you'll see
that Bali kratom is one of the

1049
00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,000
most common kratom strains being
grown.

1050
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,960
And we've explored every inch of
Bali.

1051
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,560
We've lived there for a long
time.

1052
00:59:03,720 --> 00:59:06,800
Can guarantee you the Bolognese
people do not have a kratom

1053
00:59:06,800 --> 00:59:09,760
culture.
There is no kratom being growing

1054
00:59:09,960 --> 00:59:13,320
in Bali whatsoever.
I imagine that, you know, it's a

1055
00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:17,520
more recognizable name than than
Kalimantan or Borneo or the

1056
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,800
different regions of, of Borneo.
So maybe that's where it came

1057
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,840
from historically.
Or, you know, it passed through

1058
00:59:22,840 --> 00:59:25,720
the port of Bali and, and, and
had a stamp on it from that.

1059
00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:29,200
There's different theories to
why it's such a ubiquitous

1060
00:59:29,200 --> 00:59:31,000
thing, but I always tell people
big red flag.

1061
00:59:31,160 --> 00:59:33,760
Either, you know, you're being
in a sled or somebody's

1062
00:59:33,960 --> 00:59:38,000
misleading you 'cause there's no
kratom coming from Bali.

1063
00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:42,080
That being said, you know, you,
it is, there's the, the kratom

1064
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:45,480
tree and it's kind of like with,
with wine and grapes, you know,

1065
00:59:45,480 --> 00:59:48,120
you can plant that kratom tree
in a different region and

1066
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:51,000
there'll be different minerals
in the soil, different water

1067
00:59:51,000 --> 00:59:53,560
quality, you know, maybe
different levels of, of shade

1068
00:59:53,560 --> 00:59:54,880
and sun.
There's all these environmental

1069
00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:59,560
factors that will influence the
the final end result, but it

1070
00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:03,240
does get quite muddied in that
there's a lot of kratom coming

1071
01:00:03,240 --> 01:00:06,240
from regions or, or countries or
areas that are not in fact

1072
01:00:06,560 --> 01:00:09,040
exporting kratom or don't have
it growing there.

1073
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,040
It gets farther confusing
because you also have, you know,

1074
01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:16,400
Borneo is the international name
for, for the Borneo island.

1075
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:20,880
Locals call it Kalimantan.
So you'll see sometimes Borneo

1076
01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:24,040
kratom being sold next to
Kalimantan kratom.

1077
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:29,560
Next to Kapus Hulu Kratom, which
is a province within Borneo, and

1078
01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:32,120
then Jong Kong Kratom being sold
is another option, which is a

1079
01:00:32,120 --> 01:00:36,960
village within Kapus Hulu.
So it's bit confusing how you

1080
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:40,840
would have a Kalimantan, A
Borneo, A Jong Kong, and you see

1081
01:00:40,880 --> 01:00:42,000
what I'm saying, where there's
these.

1082
01:00:42,680 --> 01:00:45,760
Yeah, y'all are so
knowledgeable.

1083
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,200
I feel like I've gotten so much
smarter in this hour.

1084
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,520
I've learned y'all are so good
with the education.

1085
01:00:50,520 --> 01:00:53,200
I've I've walked away learning a
lot today and I know the

1086
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,280
listeners have too.
I really appreciate this.

1087
01:00:55,520 --> 01:00:58,920
I think we have to have you 2
back on again some time to to

1088
01:00:58,920 --> 01:01:01,400
just keep educating us.
Y'all are incredibly

1089
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:03,280
knowledgeable and it's
interesting.

1090
01:01:03,280 --> 01:01:05,360
Y'all been there.
Y'all spent time there.

1091
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:08,400
You've done so much research.
You know a lot.

1092
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,960
And I, I love that and our
community loves that.

1093
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:12,640
So thank you.
I really appreciate y'all

1094
01:01:12,640 --> 01:01:15,000
spending all this time with us.
I have one last question to wrap

1095
01:01:15,000 --> 01:01:18,640
up is say somebody's, I'm sure
you'll have this happen all the

1096
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:19,960
time.
So somebody walks into the store

1097
01:01:19,960 --> 01:01:21,400
and they're like, I know
nothing.

1098
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:24,720
Tell me what I need to know
about this plant.

1099
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:27,640
And like, what do you, how do
you help somebody when they just

1100
01:01:28,000 --> 01:01:29,880
they're hearing about it, but
they don't know anything?

1101
01:01:32,120 --> 01:01:32,920
Go ahead.
Yeah, you're the one.

1102
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,480
Well, we always tell people, you
know, reference the trees we

1103
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:38,720
have growing in the shop and
say, you know, so kurtam is the

1104
01:01:38,720 --> 01:01:42,320
this leaf of this tree growing
from growing in Southeast Asia.

1105
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,680
And leaf of the tree is is
picked and ground into a fine

1106
01:01:45,680 --> 01:01:49,160
powder like matcha consistency
and it can be consumed as a tea

1107
01:01:49,320 --> 01:01:52,480
or in capsules and talk about
the traditional usage of the

1108
01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,520
plant.
So we of course, yeah, we are

1109
01:01:55,520 --> 01:01:58,920
limited in that we can't talk
about its medical uses in store.

1110
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:02,840
We can't talk about, you know,
give medical recommendation.

1111
01:02:02,840 --> 01:02:05,360
So we'll talk about how it's
used traditionally, that it's

1112
01:02:05,360 --> 01:02:07,400
used as an alternative to
caffeine.

1113
01:02:07,640 --> 01:02:11,760
Traditionally, it's used as an
alternative to alcohol for folks

1114
01:02:11,760 --> 01:02:14,440
to socialize and spend time with
each other and use for working

1115
01:02:14,440 --> 01:02:17,200
and productivity, as well as
part of traditional folk

1116
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:19,480
medicine for a number of
different things.

1117
01:02:20,080 --> 01:02:23,960
And then give people, you know,
good dosage instructions.

1118
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:27,680
So if they've never tried kratom
before, it's really important to

1119
01:02:27,680 --> 01:02:31,920
start with a really low dose to
see how your body reacts to the

1120
01:02:31,920 --> 01:02:34,760
plant.
And I think that that's one of

1121
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,800
the things that's given people,
perhaps historically a negative

1122
01:02:37,800 --> 01:02:41,240
perception of kratom is that
it's a super common story that

1123
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:43,760
people will come in and they'll
say, hey, like, I've tried

1124
01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:46,680
kratom a couple times in college
and my buddy gave me, you know,

1125
01:02:46,680 --> 01:02:50,520
a heaping tablespoon and I felt
super nauseous and I didn't like

1126
01:02:50,520 --> 01:02:52,040
it at all.
And I, I want to give it another

1127
01:02:52,040 --> 01:02:53,240
shot.
And I'm, I'm curious what you

1128
01:02:53,240 --> 01:02:55,360
guys are doing.
But, but I, I didn't have a very

1129
01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:57,760
good experience with it before.
And I think a lot of people see

1130
01:02:57,760 --> 01:02:59,760
it as the, you know, this leaf
with the tree.

1131
01:02:59,760 --> 01:03:02,280
Of course, you know, you can
take a big spoonful no problem.

1132
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,960
So just communicating to people
that actually it's quite potent

1133
01:03:05,960 --> 01:03:08,600
and needs to be treated with
respect and to start with a

1134
01:03:08,600 --> 01:03:09,880
little bit.
You can always take more.

1135
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,840
You can't take less.
And to really, yeah, to treat

1136
01:03:13,840 --> 01:03:16,720
the plant with respect and
consume a small amount and see

1137
01:03:16,720 --> 01:03:19,600
what's appropriate for you.
And then also just pointing out

1138
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:22,760
to people some of the things to
look out for in the industry,

1139
01:03:22,760 --> 01:03:25,080
because we'll get a lot of folks
that are just visiting Portland,

1140
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:27,840
traveling from, from other
States and all of that and just

1141
01:03:27,840 --> 01:03:29,960
telling them, hey, you can, you
can find us here online.

1142
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,480
But if you're looking for Katam,
just make sure that there's a,

1143
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,200
you know, there are third party
lab tests that you can access

1144
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:37,680
and you can check for heavy
metal concentrations,

1145
01:03:38,040 --> 01:03:42,920
microbials, pesticides, all
those things that, that you, you

1146
01:03:42,920 --> 01:03:44,600
want to avoid.
As well as seeing that there's

1147
01:03:44,600 --> 01:03:47,960
good alkaloid concentration and
being able to do, you know, see

1148
01:03:47,960 --> 01:03:51,200
the exact total alkaloid
concentration of a batch and,

1149
01:03:51,400 --> 01:03:53,760
and know how potent it is.
You can measure your dose, you

1150
01:03:53,760 --> 01:03:57,720
know, based off grams or also
by, you know, milligrams of, of

1151
01:03:57,720 --> 01:03:59,600
active alkaloids as well.
So.

1152
01:03:59,920 --> 01:04:03,000
Always give new customers a
little tiny spoon that helps

1153
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:05,720
them measure a very exact amount
every time.

1154
01:04:06,400 --> 01:04:08,960
And we think that's really
important is, you know, you tell

1155
01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:12,640
somebody or just try a small
teaspoon and then some people's

1156
01:04:12,640 --> 01:04:15,560
teaspoon is 3 times the size of
other people's teaspoon.

1157
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:18,360
And it's a very uncontrolled
dosing.

1158
01:04:18,360 --> 01:04:21,880
So yeah, we're able to give
people a little wooden teaspoon

1159
01:04:21,880 --> 01:04:26,000
that allows them to have a very
exact dosage, but they know the

1160
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:28,680
quantity every time.
And I think that's really

1161
01:04:28,680 --> 01:04:32,800
important for mindful uses to,
you know, make sure that you're

1162
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:38,000
able to track your dosage and be
able to to take the same amount

1163
01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:39,840
every time so you get a reliable
result.

1164
01:04:40,560 --> 01:04:42,840
That is so great ocean and
yummy.

1165
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:45,840
Thank you for spending time with
us and and enlightening us more

1166
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:48,760
about this amazing plant.
We'll definitely get y'all back

1167
01:04:48,760 --> 01:04:51,160
on again sometime.
Thank you so much, Madeline.

1168
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,120
It's been absolutely wonderful.
The hour's absolutely flown by.

1169
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,200
It really has.
Thank you Madeline, it's been an

1170
01:04:57,200 --> 01:04:59,520
absolute pleasure.
And like I said before, we've

1171
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,520
been following your work for a
long time and are really, really

1172
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,840
so excited to be here and, and
discuss all these topics with

1173
01:05:05,840 --> 01:05:07,840
you.
And yeah, we'd love to continue

1174
01:05:07,840 --> 01:05:09,880
the conversation.
We always tell folks that come

1175
01:05:09,880 --> 01:05:12,400
in the store, we're like, OK,
stop us if you get bored because

1176
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:15,200
we can talk about kratom topics
endlessly.

1177
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:18,120
And if there's the two of us in
there, sometimes you get, you

1178
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,120
know, multi hour conversation
and, and that's what we love.

1179
01:05:21,320 --> 01:05:24,720
So always happy to answer
questions and continue the

1180
01:05:24,720 --> 01:05:26,640
dialogue.
And again, thank you so much.