Ep 77: Quitting Kratom for 10 Days: Insights from Abram Jacobson of Pure Infinity Botanicals

0:00 If you want to take a tolerance break. Do it, Absolutely. Know that the pain is temporary and know that your body will have a chance to adapt and remember what it was like. Before you ever had. Kratom and if you really want to quit. You can do that. Too. And we all respect that. That's fine. Hurts my sales, you know, hurts the industry. Sales, but if you. Feel like it's not adding. Value to your life. And this is where, you know, as I explain it to my mom and my friends, kratom has added value to my life. I. Love it, I love. The community it creates. I love how it makes me feel. It's added. Value to my productivity and for those reasons I'm going to continue to use it. If it was. Destroying my life, which I don't ever feel. At risk of that, but if it was, I would have to quit.

0:42 Just like anything else, that's taking away value. So I'm here with Abram Jacobson, who I've had on the podcast before. We heard his amazing story with kratom, but I wanted to bring him back because he's been doing something really cool and showcasing it publicly on their YouTube channel at Pure Infinity Botanical. So Abram, thank you for coming back. I, I think we're going to have a great discussion because, yeah, this is a great topic that I think needs to be talked about more. So tell everybody like what you did on YouTube. Yeah, So what I did was I quit.

1:24 Kratom I cold. Turkey did absolutely 0. Kratom for 10 days and every single day that I went without kratom. We filmed a video showcasing what I was. Going. Through where I tried to be as realistic. And. Straightforward with people as possible. Quite frankly, the withdrawal from kratom, it's something that gets, in my opinion, it gets aggrandized in the media. Oh, it's the worst thing ever. I think there's some caveats that can make it more difficult than it has. To be but. I wanted to experience it. It had been years since I took a tolerance break. And so we did it and we showcased it. And thanks so much for showing those videos. I I sent your.

2:06 Videos to my mom look yeah that's. So cool. I tell her about this stuff. She's a nurse. She's been a nurse for decades. And part of the reason why I think I was drawn to Calvin Kratom is because she's always had an interest in homeopathic natural stuff. I mean when I was. A kid she baked cookies that had flaxseed. In them I couldn't just have a chocolate chip cookie. Sounds terrible, but I think they're not that. Bad First off, but. Having a mom that's health conscious and interested in what nature. Has to provide, especially. Working in the traditional medical community is eye opening and it makes you more open minded as you go. Through life, so I love.

2:49 Cava and kratom as a result, and I want to be transparent with people as somebody. Who puts this product forward there? Are drawbacks to anything you know and nobody wants to talk. About it. Exactly. I mean, you put a spotlight on taking a 10 day kratom break to reset your tolerance. So let's back up a little bit. So you've been consuming kratom a long time. If you're comfortable talking about it, How much were you consuming before you took your break? Like on a daily basis? Totally, totally comfortable. With it, yeah. So I would say I was. Consuming 300 milligrams of metrogenine on average daily, some days being more.

3:33 Let's see in 1g of kratom how many grams of metrogenine are there if. It's like, let's say. .015 or point yeah, .015 there's 1000 milligrams, so it might be 15. Is that 15 milligrams of metrogenine per gram, you know? I, I don't do, you know, I, I do just the whole leaf powder and I've always had a hard time understanding how you convert the, the extract with the milligrams to the grams of fat. Like, you know, I take, I take 2 teaspoons, which is roughly 5g and I do that through every six hours or four times a day. So I'm, I'm taking roughly 20 grams a day. But everybody's different, of course.

4:14 Some people take a lot less and it works great and some people take more. I'm just curious at at least equating it well with with you know you share the milligrams that's on the extract side. I'm just curious like what's that equivalent on the grams if it was powder? I. Just did the math on my handy dandy. Calculator. Trust me these. Glasses. Are just for show. I suck at math. There's 1000 milligrams of biomass in one gram of powder and typical powder has anywhere from let's say 1.2 to 1.8, maybe 2% metrogenene. So I just. Picked around, you know, 1 1/2%, that's 15 milligrams of Metrogenine for one gram of powder. So if you're doing, you know, 20 grams, you know, 20 grams a day.

4:57 That would be about. 300 milligrams total. But this is this is. Interesting subject because I know some people. Are totally against extracts. And some people are totally for them your body when you when you consume the powder, you. Create the first extract. It's the acids. In your stomach and your. Digestive tract that's. Attempting to. Extrapolate the alkaloids. From this biomass, so when you take 20 grams of powder, it could be 300 milligrams of MIT. But chances are, it's less. Because your body is only going to be so efficient at extracting it. And you know I get. To talk to people. Who have never had kratom. Before light users new.

5:39 Users Experienced users Some people take anywhere from 45 milligrams of metrogyny. Which is. Absolutely an effective dose and on the high side if you've never had it. And some people take thousands of milligrams everyday. And truly because of the trade that I'm in, I'll travel and I'll be handing samples out to people, taking it with them. So there are some days where I'm doing 6-7 hundred 800 milligrams of MIT. It's a lot. It's a lot of MIT and I was taking it so frequently everyday. No tolerance. Break because the travel. I wasn't feeling it anymore and I think I mentioned to you in a previous previous. Episode we did together. That none of us. Should be so spoiled that we expect these. Plants or medicines in our life to have the same effect every time that we take them and that by having that attitude, that's how you end up over consuming any substance. No, because I I demand to feel.

6:34 This level of great. Every time I take kratom so therefore I need more and more and more and it stacks. Up. And yeah. That's, I would say last three years. Pretty heavy consumption of kratom. For sure. We're going into this 10 day break to reset your tolerance. Dude. Were you, what, did you have any concerns going into it? Were you worried that maybe I am going to have some withdrawals or issues like like just anything going into it that you thought of? To say it didn't. Cross my mind would be a lie. But I wasn't. Really too concerned with it I've at times in my life. Quit other substances. I had a hell of a time with caffeine. I that would be the only concern that I had. I said if this is going to be as difficult a time as I had with caffeine, then I'm a little scared. Because I quit.

7:24 Caffeine cold Turkey for three months. I was an insane. User of coffee, two pots a day. OK. For years of my life, my my blood. Was used to that. Level of caffeination and I. Quit cold. Turkey, it took me 3 weeks. To get over the withdrawal first week was I had body. Temperature fluctuations, irritability, depression, anxiety. I had a migraine. Every day for three weeks. It's easy to say OK. Whatever, it's in the past, but a migraine at the end of. Every day for three. Weeks quitting caffeine and I'm not alone. There were other people. Who had this experience?

8:05 So. Kratom pales in comparison. Sorry to say. To anybody who's been on a, you know, an episode somewhere saying that it was the. Worst withdrawal of their life. I really struggle to believe that it's that. Severe unless you have a history of. Opiate abuse if you use. Kratom to come off of heroin and you're familiar with heroin withdrawals, Maybe it opens up that pathway to feel the exact same, but I think I have a. Theory as to why? So many people say that the. Withdrawal from. Kratom is so bad. Yeah, I'm going to definitely link all ten of your and there are video shorts you have on your YouTube channel. I'll link them all if people want to go through and watch them all.

8:46 But for those who haven't seen them yet. So tell us about what was day one like and then what was it like? You know, like just give us like a little bit of how the progression was. Day one was rough energy levels. Were. Abhorrent I, you know. I also there's the psychology. Of being in the industry and being surrounded by them. These products powder I have. 20 different samples from 10 different manufacturers on my desk at all times and then my other business is a Kava. Bar where we we sell. Kava and kratom. We brew the tea in the kitchen, so I couldn't escape it, you know? First day there was a little bit of that psychological warfare. Where it's like, hey, you know, the day would be easier.

9:27 If I just took some kratom. At the end of the first. Day I had. A migraine. That was the only day that I had a migraine. My sinuses were acting up. Some people say that that's a symptom of kratom withdrawal. So I had. A little bit of a runny nose. I was sneezing a lot, but at the same time my girlfriend was sick, so I think I might have been fighting off that sinus infection. So it's really hard to say. First day was was rough. It was rough. It is what it is. It was rough the second day. I didn't get a. Headache the third day. My energy levels have returned to normal and so. A really, really quick Half Life. For the withdrawal symptoms and by day 7. Cuz I didn't really set.

10:09 Like a time frame of returning to kratom by day seven. I said, you know, hey, let me have some kratom. And then I was like, you know what? Nah, I could wait a couple extra days. So I made it the full 10. Days I had. Fun with it. And it actually felt good. It felt. In a weird way, philanthropic to be able to put that content out there. As somebody who sells this, I tell my sales guys all the time, you are selling the lesser of many evils and as an alternative to so many other intoxicants or problems, a solution to so many other problems out there. These are the products that you sell. You could be selling. Soda or. Potato chips or candy. You could be selling alcohol or pharmaceuticals, but no, you're selling kratom and Kava, which is giving some people their lives back, and I think there's a lot of philanthropic good in that. But to just gloss over the fact that this product is habit? Forming doesn't feel right and it felt really good to put that content out there.

11:04 Yeah, that. That's so great. I love this. This is such a great conversation and something that we need in our community. We need this more. And not to discount how other people have reacted when they've taken tolerance breaks. I mean, I've heard a variety of stories. I think it can depend on so many things, you know, past addiction issues, how much they were consuming, where they're getting their kratom from. I mean, you know, we're trusting things are lab tested. But I'm sure being in the industry as long as you have, I'm sure you've seen your share of companies that claim to be doing the right thing, but they're not. And you know, if things are not being properly lab tested, you could be getting tainted products that probably would affect when you're taking a tolerance break. You know how you go through it.

11:48 Absolutely, Absolutely. I had this theory. Last night I was on the phone at like 9:00 PM with a customer who ordered product on our website. She actually placed an order. It didn't. Ship right away we've. We've gotten a lot more orders on the website. Things have been busier. So you know, next day shipping sometimes happens, but I was talking. To her. And she started taking kratom with when her I guess her. Father passed. Away and it was. The little blue bottle. Everybody knows and she was taking 9 bottles a day. Having these horrible side effects. Then she switched over to 70 H and she was taking a couple 100 milligrams of 70 H and then she saw one of my Facebook ads.

12:28 So she decided. To try one of our full spectrum extracts. Long story short, what I picked up from that conversation. Was she started to take? A plant. A product, A drug. And intoxicating. And she knew nothing about it. She didn't even know what an alkaloid was. OK. So this is where companies go wrong within the kratom space in. Particular is we. Sell to consumers who want to feel good. Some people are trying to escape pain in their life and maybe have a very painful existence in general. The job sucks, the family life is terrible. They just went through the loss of a loved one and they don't know anything about these products that are on the shelf. So they try something, they go out on a limb and it makes them feel great, but they don't ever take the time to. Google, look it up.

13:13 What's an alkaloid? You know, how does this work? What is this doing to me? And when they finally decide that they want to quit because they're experiencing these. Bad side effects. Their lack of knowledge base makes it so much more psychologically damaging for them when they're going through withdraw. I mean, imagine if you start to feel like crap tomorrow and you have no idea why you're getting a headache. You're getting cold sweats. You can't. Sleep whatever, you're irritable. And you don't know what it is but. You know that you've. Been taking a product that you know nothing about? Nothing about? You're going to freak out and it's going to make that. First three days that sucked. For me, suck for 10 days. It might make it suck, even. Worse for those first.

13:55 Three days, you know, because you're in your own head about it. You're like, Oh my God, what have I been doing? I've been taking this product. It's. Horribly addictive. It's. Destroying my life. It's doing this and this because you don't know anything about it. And that's honestly when you. Read the news article. And somebody says XY company destroyed my life #1 Personal accountability should be considered #2 yeah. It was worse than it had to. Be you started taking a product you didn't take the time to look up and obviously most companies don't make it very. Easy for you to. Get factual information because the FDA doesn't prove this product and you can kind of get your hand slapped. So the YouTube channels that we're doing right now, both of. Us.

14:36 We're we're. Risking it by putting this information out here, but we're doing the right thing for people and I want to know that when someone goes to my channel and. They watch our videos that in this video too. I want them to know that I'm trying to be honest and I want them to feel like they're getting somewhat of an unbiased perspective. So sharing my journey is a. Part of that. But I really think. It's the fear. Of the unknown that magnifies withdrawal symptoms for so many people. The mind is powerful. Well said. That amazing conversation we're having. I think education in the KREM industry is incredibly important and I wish more people did take the time to understand what they're consuming and transparency, you know, y'all are so good with transparency in the kratom industry.

15:27 The way you put your videos out onto your YouTube channel so that P and on your TikTok, you know, all your social media for people to see. Like you're putting everything out there. And a lot of companies don't do that. But do you feel like you're trying to set a new standard to get more industry companies to to, you know, do what you're doing? They all should be doing it. Yeah, I mean to a certain degree, right, like. I love the fact that we're we're. Creating a novel approach to doing business in the space I know somebody's going to. Copy us, sadly. I know somebody will do it and they're going to do a better job of it than us, but sometimes when you have a. Competitor that pushes. The needle forward, Yeah, it's your competitor.

16:10 Maybe they're taking some of the funds out of your own pocket, but they're still moving the needle forward and they're bringing awareness. And so when I hear. About like I. Believe it's Mitra 9 achieved a distribution deal with one of. Budweiser's distributors. That's amazing. That's huge because it's. Getting into so many new places and people are going to get to try it and then if it has to be me that has the YouTube channel that actually gives. People factual. Information about these products? Hey, we all win. Right, so. Do I think it'll be the standard? No. I've met too many people in the business to know that none of them really wanna do a YouTube channel that's. Yeah, that's up to them.

16:50 Yeah, well, I commend you for doing it cuz it's not easy. Thank you. And you don't know how people are going to react. And I'm sure you you get plenty of negative comments from from doing it. But I think education is incredibly important. I mean, I get plenty of hate comments with stuff I put out, but to me it's worth putting the information out so I can just help educate more people. I think that's so important. The other thing that you've been doing and I think is really cool on your YouTube channel, you know, continuing your whole transparency in the business is a series you're doing right now called Bootstrapping A Botanical Business. So tell everybody what that's about because I have not seen anybody in the industry do that. I'm going to.

17:35 I'm going to just say imitation is the highest form of. Flattery. There's a. Coffee company, I believe they're called. Poor boy coffee. Company and they. They started the bootstrapping. Series and they get an insane amount of interaction on their. Posts so yeah, we're. We're chasing that interaction. But we're also looking for the visibility. There's a lot of. People, again, they don't know anything about the products they're buying and so they don't have a window into. What the work culture might be like or the. Projects that are going on and how the. Industry is developing. So when applicable, when appropriate. We try to share. Some things like maybe it's a new company, T-shirt design or. Some tablets that we're. Working on. What whatever it is. It's been fun and you're.

18:18 Absolutely right, you get the hate. I get the hate on these comments too, but we're dealing with the general public and I'm sure you can think of plenty occasions where you've seen some extremely positive video online and still found a nasty comment. So it's a part of life. I really don't take it too. Personally, but I've had some weird weird run insurance I've had to block. People on YouTube actually. You told me to do that and that was smart. They then went on to my LinkedIn page and we're leaving comments on my posts on LinkedIn. So I. Had to block them there as well. So people, people are weird, but it's a part of. Haters are going to hate. This what they do sadly, yeah, I I learned years ago it's just not even worth getting into it with people because they they will not change their minds.

19:08 I like to keep everything, you know, positive and and a very community vibe in in our chats, especially like TikTok TikTok. I really like when people come in and start hating because I'm trying to share the difference between 7 OH and kratom leaf kratom. I mean, people come in there like you just want it banned. You just want 7 OH, banned. And but I'm like, no. And if you watch my videos, I always say I don't believe in prohibition. I, you know, regulation, yes, but not prohibition. But people just have to get on social media and hide behind a keyboard and hate. But that will never stop me. And I know it's not going to stop you because I think, you know, we're both on the same mission. Education is so incredibly important and we need more of it in the community. We need, we just need more stories out there, positive stories about kratom.

19:56 I agree. I agree. I can't wait for the day that you come to Florida because my introduction to kratom to begin with. Was the positive story. The first person that I met at a Kava bar was a former addict and he explained to me how kratom changed his life and I've met dozens if not hundreds. Of people. Even on an acquaintance basis, I'm sure then it's well beyond 100. Of people who were Alcoholics or. You know. Street drug users. And now they just go to a Kava bar and they have some kratom and some Kava and they move on with life and they have a much better life. For it so absolutely. It's a blessing to be able to work in this industry and talk about these things and know. That your products are.

20:38 Absolutely doing some people. Very well. Doing good things for people. There are some people who are gonna. Abuse it? Absolutely. And again, it all goes back to that knowledge basis. Some people are ill informed and they're willing to do anything that will make them feel good, even at their own detriment. And they'll do it without knowing a damn thing about where the product comes from that they're taking, you know? So that's the unfortunate aspect. So all the more reason for you to keep doing what you're doing and for us to keep on putting this content out there. Yeah, for sure. So to wrap up, what would you say to somebody that has been consuming Kratom for a while, whether it's extracts or the whole leaf powder and they, they know they should take a tolerance break. They want to take they're they're going through what you said were they're just, they're just not feeling it anymore. They're not getting what they used to get out of it. What would you say to them to, you know, go pursue that tolerance break?

21:34 I would say. It's going to be okay. At the other end of that rainbow of discomfort, you have to remember that, hey, you're not doing this. Forever you're. The one that's in control and there's a lot easier. Ways to? Take a tolerance bake than the way that I. Did I did it cold Turkey? And I work in the industry and I'm surrounded by these products. And I did it during a normal work week my my Monday. Was kratom free so? You could pick a weekend to do it. You could pick a time when you're going out of town and you're changing your environment, so you kind of got. To ask yourself, hey. What are the benefits of taking a tolerance break? Number one, I'm going to save money. Because I'll require. Less moving forward #2 I'm challenging myself and cultivating the discipline of my mind. I'm choosing to be in charge of me and my body and my whole person rather than something else dictating my life. And I always think that.

22:30 That's really valuable. If there's one benefit I've ever gotten from quitting caffeine, quitting kratom, it's to be able to tell myself no and hold up the mirror and know that I kept my word to myself. And that's something we don't do enough of. It's hard to do. But if you want to take a tolerance. Break. Do it, Absolutely. Know that the pain is temporary and know that your body will have a chance to adapt and remember what it was like. Before you ever had. Kratom and if you really want to quit. You can do that. Too, And we all respect that that that's fine hurts my sales, you know, hurts the industry sales. But if you feel like it's not adding value to your life, and this is where you know, as I explain it to my mom and my friends, kratom has added value to my life.

23:13 I. Love it, I love. The community it creates. I love how it makes me feel. It's added. Value to my productivity and for those reasons I'm going to continue to use it. If it was destroying. My life, which I don't ever feel. At risk of that, but if it was, I would have to quit. Just like anything else, that's taking away value. This was a powerful and very needed conversation to have in our kratom community. Abram, thank you for spending time and talking to us. I'll be sure to link all the videos here in the description so people, if they haven't seen them, they could go through. You should actually make a playlist for it on your YouTube channel. So, so you have them all together in one place. I'll show you. I didn't. I didn't, Yeah.

23:53 Thank you. That'd be. Awesome. I appreciate you.