Ep 77: Quitting Kratom for 10 Days: Insights from Abram Jacobson of Pure Infinity Botanicals

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If you want to take a tolerance
break.

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Do it, Absolutely.
Know that the pain is temporary

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and know that your body will
have a chance to adapt and

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remember what it was like.
Before you ever had.

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Kratom and if you really want to
quit.

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You can do that.
Too.

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And we all respect that.
That's fine.

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Hurts my sales, you know, hurts
the industry.

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Sales, but if you.
Feel like it's not adding.

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Value to your life.
And this is where, you know, as

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I explain it to my mom and my
friends, kratom has added value

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to my life.
I.

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Love it, I love.
The community it creates.

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I love how it makes me feel.
It's added.

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Value to my productivity and for
those reasons I'm going to

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continue to use it.
If it was.

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Destroying my life, which I
don't ever feel.

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At risk of that, but if it was,
I would have to quit.

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Just like anything else, that's
taking away value.

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So I'm here with Abram Jacobson,
who I've had on the podcast

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before.
We heard his amazing story with

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kratom, but I wanted to bring
him back because he's been doing

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something really cool and
showcasing it publicly on their

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YouTube channel at Pure Infinity
Botanical.

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So Abram, thank you for coming
back.

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I, I think we're going to have a
great discussion because, yeah,

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this is a great topic that I
think needs to be talked about

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more.
So tell everybody like what you

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did on YouTube.
Yeah, So what I did was I quit.

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Kratom I cold.
Turkey did absolutely 0.

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Kratom for 10 days and every
single day that I went without

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kratom.
We filmed a video showcasing

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what I was.
Going.

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Through where I tried to be as
realistic.

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And.
Straightforward with people as

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possible.
Quite frankly, the withdrawal

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from kratom, it's something that
gets, in my opinion, it gets

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aggrandized in the media.
Oh, it's the worst thing ever.

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I think there's some caveats
that can make it more difficult

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than it has.
To be but.

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I wanted to experience it.
It had been years since I took a

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tolerance break.
And so we did it and we

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showcased it.
And thanks so much for showing

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those videos.
I I sent your.

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Videos to my mom look yeah
that's.

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So cool.
I tell her about this stuff.

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She's a nurse.
She's been a nurse for decades.

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And part of the reason why I
think I was drawn to Calvin

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Kratom is because she's always
had an interest in homeopathic

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natural stuff.
I mean when I was.

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A kid she baked cookies that had
flaxseed.

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In them I couldn't just have a
chocolate chip cookie.

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Sounds terrible, but I think
they're not that.

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Bad First off, but.
Having a mom that's health

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conscious and interested in what
nature.

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Has to provide, especially.
Working in the traditional

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medical community is eye opening
and it makes you more open

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minded as you go.
Through life, so I love.

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Cava and kratom as a result, and
I want to be transparent with

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people as somebody.
Who puts this product forward

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there?
Are drawbacks to anything you

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know and nobody wants to talk.
About it.

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Exactly.
I mean, you put a spotlight on

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taking a 10 day kratom break to
reset your tolerance.

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So let's back up a little bit.
So you've been consuming kratom

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a long time.
If you're comfortable talking

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about it, How much were you
consuming before you took your

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break?
Like on a daily basis?

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Totally, totally comfortable.
With it, yeah.

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So I would say I was.
Consuming 300 milligrams of

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metrogenine on average daily,
some days being more.

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Let's see in 1g of kratom how
many grams of metrogenine are

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there if.
It's like, let's say. .015 or

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point yeah, .015 there's 1000
milligrams, so it might be 15.

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Is that 15 milligrams of
metrogenine per gram, you know?

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I, I don't do, you know, I, I do
just the whole leaf powder and

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I've always had a hard time
understanding how you convert

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the, the extract with the
milligrams to the grams of fat.

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Like, you know, I take, I take 2
teaspoons, which is roughly 5g

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and I do that through every six
hours or four times a day.

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So I'm, I'm taking roughly 20
grams a day.

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But everybody's different, of
course.

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Some people take a lot less and
it works great and some people

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take more.
I'm just curious at at least

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equating it well with with you
know you share the milligrams

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that's on the extract side.
I'm just curious like what's

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that equivalent on the grams if
it was powder?

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I.
Just did the math on my handy

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dandy.
Calculator.

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Trust me these.
Glasses.

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Are just for show.
I suck at math.

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There's 1000 milligrams of
biomass in one gram of powder

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and typical powder has anywhere
from let's say 1.2 to 1.8, maybe

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2% metrogenene.
So I just.

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Picked around, you know, 1 1/2%,
that's 15 milligrams of

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Metrogenine for one gram of
powder.

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So if you're doing, you know, 20
grams, you know, 20 grams a day.

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That would be about. 300
milligrams total.

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But this is this is.
Interesting subject because I

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know some people.
Are totally against extracts.

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And some people are totally for
them your body when you when you

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consume the powder, you.
Create the first extract.

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It's the acids.
In your stomach and your.

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Digestive tract that's.
Attempting to.

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Extrapolate the alkaloids.
From this biomass, so when you

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take 20 grams of powder, it
could be 300 milligrams of MIT.

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But chances are, it's less.
Because your body is only going

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to be so efficient at extracting
it.

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And you know I get.
To talk to people.

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Who have never had kratom.
Before light users new.

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Users Experienced users Some
people take anywhere from 45

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milligrams of metrogyny.
Which is.

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Absolutely an effective dose and
on the high side if you've never

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had it.
And some people take thousands

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of milligrams everyday.
And truly because of the trade

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that I'm in, I'll travel and
I'll be handing samples out to

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people, taking it with them.
So there are some days where I'm

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doing 6-7 hundred 800 milligrams
of MIT.

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It's a lot.
It's a lot of MIT and I was

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taking it so frequently
everyday.

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No tolerance.
Break because the travel.

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I wasn't feeling it anymore and
I think I mentioned to you in a

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previous previous.
Episode we did together.

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That none of us.
Should be so spoiled that we

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expect these.
Plants or medicines in our life

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to have the same effect every
time that we take them and that

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by having that attitude, that's
how you end up over consuming

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any substance.
No, because I I demand to feel.

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This level of great.
Every time I take kratom so

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therefore I need more and more
and more and it stacks.

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Up.
And yeah.

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That's, I would say last three
years.

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Pretty heavy consumption of
kratom.

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For sure.
We're going into this 10 day

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break to reset your tolerance.
Dude.

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Were you, what, did you have any
concerns going into it?

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Were you worried that maybe I am
going to have some withdrawals

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or issues like like just
anything going into it that you

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thought of?
To say it didn't.

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Cross my mind would be a lie.
But I wasn't.

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Really too concerned with it
I've at times in my life.

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Quit other substances.
I had a hell of a time with

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caffeine.
I that would be the only concern

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that I had.
I said if this is going to be as

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difficult a time as I had with
caffeine, then I'm a little

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scared.
Because I quit.

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Caffeine cold Turkey for three
months.

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I was an insane.
User of coffee, two pots a day.

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OK.
For years of my life, my my

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blood.
Was used to that.

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Level of caffeination and I.
Quit cold.

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Turkey, it took me 3 weeks.
To get over the withdrawal first

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week was I had body.
Temperature fluctuations,

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irritability, depression,
anxiety.

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I had a migraine.
Every day for three weeks.

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It's easy to say OK.
Whatever, it's in the past, but

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a migraine at the end of.
Every day for three.

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Weeks quitting caffeine and I'm
not alone.

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There were other people.
Who had this experience?

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So.
Kratom pales in comparison.

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Sorry to say.
To anybody who's been on a, you

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know, an episode somewhere
saying that it was the.

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Worst withdrawal of their life.
I really struggle to believe

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that it's that.
Severe unless you have a history

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of.
Opiate abuse if you use.

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Kratom to come off of heroin and
you're familiar with heroin

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withdrawals, Maybe it opens up
that pathway to feel the exact

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same, but I think I have a.
Theory as to why?

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So many people say that the.
Withdrawal from.

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Kratom is so bad.
Yeah, I'm going to definitely

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link all ten of your and there
are video shorts you have on

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your YouTube channel.
I'll link them all if people

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want to go through and watch
them all.

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But for those who haven't seen
them yet.

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So tell us about what was day
one like and then what was it

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like?
You know, like just give us like

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a little bit of how the
progression was.

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Day one was rough energy levels.
Were.

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Abhorrent I, you know.
I also there's the psychology.

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Of being in the industry and
being surrounded by them.

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These products powder I have. 20
different samples from 10

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different manufacturers on my
desk at all times and then my

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other business is a Kava.
Bar where we we sell.

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Kava and kratom.
We brew the tea in the kitchen,

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so I couldn't escape it, you
know?

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First day there was a little bit
of that psychological warfare.

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Where it's like, hey, you know,
the day would be easier.

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If I just took some kratom.
At the end of the first.

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Day I had.
A migraine.

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That was the only day that I had
a migraine.

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My sinuses were acting up.
Some people say that that's a

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symptom of kratom withdrawal.
So I had.

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A little bit of a runny nose.
I was sneezing a lot, but at the

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same time my girlfriend was
sick, so I think I might have

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been fighting off that sinus
infection.

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So it's really hard to say.
First day was was rough.

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It was rough.
It is what it is.

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It was rough the second day.
I didn't get a.

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Headache the third day.
My energy levels have returned

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to normal and so.
A really, really quick Half

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Life.
For the withdrawal symptoms and

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by day 7.
Cuz I didn't really set.

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Like a time frame of returning
to kratom by day seven.

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I said, you know, hey, let me
have some kratom.

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And then I was like, you know
what?

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Nah, I could wait a couple extra
days.

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So I made it the full 10.
Days I had.

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Fun with it.
And it actually felt good.

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It felt.
In a weird way, philanthropic to

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be able to put that content out
there.

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As somebody who sells this, I
tell my sales guys all the time,

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you are selling the lesser of
many evils and as an alternative

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to so many other intoxicants or
problems, a solution to so many

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other problems out there.
These are the products that you

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sell.
You could be selling.

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Soda or.
Potato chips or candy.

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You could be selling alcohol or
pharmaceuticals, but no, you're

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selling kratom and Kava, which
is giving some people their

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lives back, and I think there's
a lot of philanthropic good in

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that.
But to just gloss over the fact

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that this product is habit?
Forming doesn't feel right and

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it felt really good to put that
content out there.

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Yeah, that.
That's so great.

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I love this.
This is such a great

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conversation and something that
we need in our community.

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We need this more.
And not to discount how other

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people have reacted when they've
taken tolerance breaks.

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I mean, I've heard a variety of
stories.

229
00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:23,520
I think it can depend on so many
things, you know, past addiction

230
00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,880
issues, how much they were
consuming, where they're getting

231
00:11:26,880 --> 00:11:29,440
their kratom from.
I mean, you know, we're trusting

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00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:32,120
things are lab tested.
But I'm sure being in the

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00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:35,120
industry as long as you have,
I'm sure you've seen your share

234
00:11:35,120 --> 00:11:37,680
of companies that claim to be
doing the right thing, but

235
00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:39,880
they're not.
And you know, if things are not

236
00:11:39,880 --> 00:11:42,360
being properly lab tested, you
could be getting tainted

237
00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:45,960
products that probably would
affect when you're taking a

238
00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:47,880
tolerance break.
You know how you go through it.

239
00:11:48,160 --> 00:11:52,240
Absolutely, Absolutely.
I had this theory.

240
00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:56,080
Last night I was on the phone at
like 9:00 PM with a customer who

241
00:11:56,080 --> 00:12:00,280
ordered product on our website.
She actually placed an order.

242
00:12:00,840 --> 00:12:02,280
It didn't.
Ship right away we've.

243
00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,120
We've gotten a lot more orders
on the website.

244
00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:06,680
Things have been busier.
So you know, next day shipping

245
00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:09,080
sometimes happens, but I was
talking.

246
00:12:09,080 --> 00:12:11,960
To her.
And she started taking kratom

247
00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,880
with when her I guess her.
Father passed.

248
00:12:14,880 --> 00:12:16,920
Away and it was.
The little blue bottle.

249
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:19,640
Everybody knows and she was
taking 9 bottles a day.

250
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:21,840
Having these horrible side
effects.

251
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:25,080
Then she switched over to 70 H
and she was taking a couple 100

252
00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,160
milligrams of 70 H and then she
saw one of my Facebook ads.

253
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:30,720
So she decided.
To try one of our full spectrum

254
00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:33,600
extracts.
Long story short, what I picked

255
00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,280
up from that conversation.
Was she started to take?

256
00:12:36,360 --> 00:12:38,600
A plant.
A product, A drug.

257
00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,840
And intoxicating.
And she knew nothing about it.

258
00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:43,640
She didn't even know what an
alkaloid was.

259
00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:46,520
OK.
So this is where companies go

260
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,800
wrong within the kratom space
in.

261
00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,240
Particular is we.
Sell to consumers who want to

262
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:54,680
feel good.
Some people are trying to escape

263
00:12:54,680 --> 00:12:59,200
pain in their life and maybe
have a very painful existence in

264
00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:01,040
general.
The job sucks, the family life

265
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,640
is terrible.
They just went through the loss

266
00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:05,200
of a loved one and they don't
know anything about these

267
00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,400
products that are on the shelf.
So they try something, they go

268
00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,840
out on a limb and it makes them
feel great, but they don't ever

269
00:13:10,840 --> 00:13:12,680
take the time to.
Google, look it up.

270
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,280
What's an alkaloid?
You know, how does this work?

271
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,560
What is this doing to me?
And when they finally decide

272
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:21,400
that they want to quit because
they're experiencing these.

273
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:25,520
Bad side effects.
Their lack of knowledge base

274
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,720
makes it so much more
psychologically damaging for

275
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:30,360
them when they're going through
withdraw.

276
00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:33,880
I mean, imagine if you start to
feel like crap tomorrow and you

277
00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:35,880
have no idea why you're getting
a headache.

278
00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,000
You're getting cold sweats.
You can't.

279
00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:39,840
Sleep whatever, you're
irritable.

280
00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:41,440
And you don't know what it is
but.

281
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,240
You know that you've.
Been taking a product that you

282
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,160
know nothing about?
Nothing about?

283
00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:48,880
You're going to freak out and
it's going to make that.

284
00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:52,520
First three days that sucked.
For me, suck for 10 days.

285
00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:55,360
It might make it suck, even.
Worse for those first.

286
00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,360
Three days, you know, because
you're in your own head about

287
00:13:58,360 --> 00:14:00,160
it.
You're like, Oh my God, what

288
00:14:00,160 --> 00:14:02,160
have I been doing?
I've been taking this product.

289
00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:03,640
It's.
Horribly addictive.

290
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,080
It's.
Destroying my life.

291
00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:07,560
It's doing this and this because
you don't know anything about

292
00:14:07,560 --> 00:14:09,800
it.
And that's honestly when you.

293
00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:13,600
Read the news article.
And somebody says XY company

294
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:17,200
destroyed my life #1 Personal
accountability should be

295
00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,760
considered #2 yeah.
It was worse than it had to.

296
00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:23,280
Be you started taking a product
you didn't take the time to look

297
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:26,520
up and obviously most companies
don't make it very.

298
00:14:26,520 --> 00:14:29,920
Easy for you to.
Get factual information because

299
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,280
the FDA doesn't prove this
product and you can kind of get

300
00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,960
your hand slapped.
So the YouTube channels that

301
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,520
we're doing right now, both of.
Us.

302
00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,320
We're we're.
Risking it by putting this

303
00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:41,680
information out here, but we're
doing the right thing for people

304
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:46,080
and I want to know that when
someone goes to my channel and.

305
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:49,280
They watch our videos that in
this video too.

306
00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,600
I want them to know that I'm
trying to be honest and I want

307
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,520
them to feel like they're
getting somewhat of an unbiased

308
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:59,680
perspective.
So sharing my journey is a.

309
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:01,600
Part of that.
But I really think.

310
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,920
It's the fear.
Of the unknown that magnifies

311
00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:07,040
withdrawal symptoms for so many
people.

312
00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:10,520
The mind is powerful.
Well said.

313
00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:13,840
That amazing conversation we're
having.

314
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:17,560
I think education in the KREM
industry is incredibly important

315
00:15:17,920 --> 00:15:20,880
and I wish more people did take
the time to understand what

316
00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:24,880
they're consuming and
transparency, you know, y'all

317
00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:27,440
are so good with transparency in
the kratom industry.

318
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:30,560
The way you put your videos out
onto your YouTube channel so

319
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,200
that P and on your TikTok, you
know, all your social media for

320
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:35,520
people to see.
Like you're putting everything

321
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:37,480
out there.
And a lot of companies don't do

322
00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:38,760
that.
But do you feel like you're

323
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,440
trying to set a new standard to
get more industry companies to

324
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:46,040
to, you know, do what you're
doing?

325
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:49,720
They all should be doing it.
Yeah, I mean to a certain

326
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,000
degree, right, like.
I love the fact that we're

327
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,160
we're.
Creating a novel approach to

328
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,480
doing business in the space I
know somebody's going to.

329
00:15:57,480 --> 00:16:00,440
Copy us, sadly.
I know somebody will do it and

330
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:04,040
they're going to do a better job
of it than us, but sometimes

331
00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:05,880
when you have a.
Competitor that pushes.

332
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:09,200
The needle forward, Yeah, it's
your competitor.

333
00:16:10,280 --> 00:16:13,920
Maybe they're taking some of the
funds out of your own pocket,

334
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:15,840
but they're still moving the
needle forward and they're

335
00:16:15,840 --> 00:16:17,880
bringing awareness.
And so when I hear.

336
00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:21,440
About like I.
Believe it's Mitra 9 achieved a

337
00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:24,400
distribution deal with one of.
Budweiser's distributors.

338
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:26,920
That's amazing.
That's huge because it's.

339
00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,400
Getting into so many new places
and people are going to get to

340
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,960
try it and then if it has to be
me that has the YouTube channel

341
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,680
that actually gives.
People factual.

342
00:16:34,680 --> 00:16:36,200
Information about these
products?

343
00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:39,360
Hey, we all win.
Right, so.

344
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:40,720
Do I think it'll be the
standard?

345
00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,200
No.
I've met too many people in the

346
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,720
business to know that none of
them really wanna do a YouTube

347
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,840
channel that's.
Yeah, that's up to them.

348
00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,280
Yeah, well, I commend you for
doing it cuz it's not easy.

349
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,240
Thank you.
And you don't know how people

350
00:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,600
are going to react.
And I'm sure you you get plenty

351
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:03,720
of negative comments from from
doing it.

352
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:05,839
But I think education is
incredibly important.

353
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:09,880
I mean, I get plenty of hate
comments with stuff I put out,

354
00:17:09,880 --> 00:17:13,040
but to me it's worth putting the
information out so I can just

355
00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:16,880
help educate more people.
I think that's so important.

356
00:17:17,599 --> 00:17:20,079
The other thing that you've been
doing and I think is really cool

357
00:17:20,079 --> 00:17:23,200
on your YouTube channel, you
know, continuing your whole

358
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,720
transparency in the business is
a series you're doing right now

359
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,120
called Bootstrapping A Botanical
Business.

360
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,440
So tell everybody what that's
about because I have not seen

361
00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:35,600
anybody in the industry do that.
I'm going to.

362
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,240
I'm going to just say imitation
is the highest form of.

363
00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,560
Flattery.
There's a.

364
00:17:39,560 --> 00:17:41,000
Coffee company, I believe
they're called.

365
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:42,880
Poor boy coffee.
Company and they.

366
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:47,720
They started the bootstrapping.
Series and they get an insane

367
00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,280
amount of interaction on their.
Posts so yeah, we're.

368
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,080
We're chasing that interaction.
But we're also looking for the

369
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:56,160
visibility.
There's a lot of.

370
00:17:56,160 --> 00:17:58,280
People, again, they don't know
anything about the products

371
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:01,160
they're buying and so they don't
have a window into.

372
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,080
What the work culture might be
like or the.

373
00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:05,120
Projects that are going on and
how the.

374
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:08,560
Industry is developing.
So when applicable, when

375
00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:09,720
appropriate.
We try to share.

376
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:13,240
Some things like maybe it's a
new company, T-shirt design or.

377
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:15,040
Some tablets that we're.
Working on.

378
00:18:15,040 --> 00:18:18,400
What whatever it is.
It's been fun and you're.

379
00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:20,480
Absolutely right, you get the
hate.

380
00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:23,400
I get the hate on these comments
too, but we're dealing with the

381
00:18:23,400 --> 00:18:27,920
general public and I'm sure you
can think of plenty occasions

382
00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,560
where you've seen some extremely
positive video online and still

383
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:34,920
found a nasty comment.
So it's a part of life.

384
00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:39,600
I really don't take it too.
Personally, but I've had some

385
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,520
weird weird run insurance I've
had to block.

386
00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:45,880
People on YouTube actually.
You told me to do that and that

387
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,640
was smart.
They then went on to my LinkedIn

388
00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:51,960
page and we're leaving comments
on my posts on LinkedIn.

389
00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:54,160
So I.
Had to block them there as well.

390
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:57,760
So people, people are weird, but
it's a part of.

391
00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:02,120
Haters are going to hate.
This what they do sadly, yeah, I

392
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:05,080
I learned years ago it's just
not even worth getting into it

393
00:19:05,080 --> 00:19:07,360
with people because they they
will not change their minds.

394
00:19:08,280 --> 00:19:13,640
I like to keep everything, you
know, positive and and a very

395
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:17,840
community vibe in in our chats,
especially like TikTok TikTok.

396
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,960
I really like when people come
in and start hating because I'm

397
00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:23,640
trying to share the difference
between 7 OH and kratom leaf

398
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,880
kratom.
I mean, people come in there

399
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,360
like you just want it banned.
You just want 7 OH, banned.

400
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:34,160
And but I'm like, no.
And if you watch my videos, I

401
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:35,920
always say I don't believe in
prohibition.

402
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,400
I, you know, regulation, yes,
but not prohibition.

403
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,160
But people just have to get on
social media and hide behind a

404
00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,000
keyboard and hate.
But that will never stop me.

405
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,400
And I know it's not going to
stop you because I think, you

406
00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:47,920
know, we're both on the same
mission.

407
00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:51,560
Education is so incredibly
important and we need more of it

408
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,360
in the community.
We need, we just need more

409
00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,680
stories out there, positive
stories about kratom.

410
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,040
I agree.
I agree.

411
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,640
I can't wait for the day that
you come to Florida because my

412
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:03,480
introduction to kratom to begin
with.

413
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:07,040
Was the positive story.
The first person that I met at a

414
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:11,120
Kava bar was a former addict and
he explained to me how kratom

415
00:20:11,120 --> 00:20:14,320
changed his life and I've met
dozens if not hundreds.

416
00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,640
Of people.
Even on an acquaintance basis,

417
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:18,520
I'm sure then it's well beyond
100.

418
00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,040
Of people who were Alcoholics
or.

419
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:23,600
You know.
Street drug users.

420
00:20:23,600 --> 00:20:26,280
And now they just go to a Kava
bar and they have some kratom

421
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:28,920
and some Kava and they move on
with life and they have a much

422
00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:32,600
better life.
For it so absolutely.

423
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,000
It's a blessing to be able to
work in this industry and talk

424
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,400
about these things and know.
That your products are.

425
00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:41,000
Absolutely doing some people.
Very well.

426
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,480
Doing good things for people.
There are some people who are

427
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:44,200
gonna.
Abuse it?

428
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,680
Absolutely.
And again, it all goes back to

429
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,000
that knowledge basis.
Some people are ill informed and

430
00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,600
they're willing to do anything
that will make them feel good,

431
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,000
even at their own detriment.
And they'll do it without

432
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,720
knowing a damn thing about where
the product comes from that

433
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:02,440
they're taking, you know?
So that's the unfortunate

434
00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:04,720
aspect.
So all the more reason for you

435
00:21:04,720 --> 00:21:08,560
to keep doing what you're doing
and for us to keep on putting

436
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,280
this content out there.
Yeah, for sure.

437
00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,080
So to wrap up, what would you
say to somebody that has been

438
00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,120
consuming Kratom for a while,
whether it's extracts or the

439
00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,600
whole leaf powder and they, they
know they should take a

440
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:21,960
tolerance break.
They want to take they're

441
00:21:21,960 --> 00:21:24,760
they're going through what you
said were they're just, they're

442
00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:27,000
just not feeling it anymore.
They're not getting what they

443
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,320
used to get out of it.
What would you say to them to,

444
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:32,720
you know, go pursue that
tolerance break?

445
00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,600
I would say.
It's going to be okay.

446
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:41,400
At the other end of that rainbow
of discomfort, you have to

447
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:42,760
remember that, hey, you're not
doing this.

448
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:45,800
Forever you're.
The one that's in control and

449
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,800
there's a lot easier.
Ways to?

450
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,920
Take a tolerance bake than the
way that I.

451
00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:53,520
Did I did it cold Turkey?
And I work in the industry and

452
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:54,760
I'm surrounded by these
products.

453
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:57,920
And I did it during a normal
work week my my Monday.

454
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,640
Was kratom free so?
You could pick a weekend to do

455
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:03,840
it.
You could pick a time when

456
00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:05,760
you're going out of town and
you're changing your

457
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,440
environment, so you kind of got.
To ask yourself, hey.

458
00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:10,600
What are the benefits of taking
a tolerance break?

459
00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:11,960
Number one, I'm going to save
money.

460
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:15,560
Because I'll require.
Less moving forward #2 I'm

461
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:19,320
challenging myself and
cultivating the discipline of my

462
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:23,240
mind.
I'm choosing to be in charge of

463
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:26,880
me and my body and my whole
person rather than something

464
00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,200
else dictating my life.
And I always think that.

465
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:33,080
That's really valuable.
If there's one benefit I've ever

466
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:37,520
gotten from quitting caffeine,
quitting kratom, it's to be able

467
00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:41,840
to tell myself no and hold up
the mirror and know that I kept

468
00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:44,720
my word to myself.
And that's something we don't do

469
00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:46,240
enough of.
It's hard to do.

470
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:48,760
But if you want to take a
tolerance.

471
00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:51,000
Break.
Do it, Absolutely.

472
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:54,440
Know that the pain is temporary
and know that your body will

473
00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,440
have a chance to adapt and
remember what it was like.

474
00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,360
Before you ever had.
Kratom and if you really want to

475
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:00,560
quit.
You can do that.

476
00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:04,080
Too, And we all respect that
that that's fine hurts my sales,

477
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:05,880
you know, hurts the industry
sales.

478
00:23:06,160 --> 00:23:08,680
But if you feel like it's not
adding value to your life, and

479
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,080
this is where you know, as I
explain it to my mom and my

480
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,400
friends, kratom has added value
to my life.

481
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:14,320
I.
Love it, I love.

482
00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,480
The community it creates.
I love how it makes me feel.

483
00:23:17,760 --> 00:23:20,600
It's added.
Value to my productivity and for

484
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:22,480
those reasons I'm going to
continue to use it.

485
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:26,080
If it was destroying.
My life, which I don't ever

486
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:28,440
feel.
At risk of that, but if it was,

487
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,600
I would have to quit.
Just like anything else, that's

488
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:34,760
taking away value.
This was a powerful and very

489
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,640
needed conversation to have in
our kratom community.

490
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,840
Abram, thank you for spending
time and talking to us.

491
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:43,320
I'll be sure to link all the
videos here in the description

492
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,640
so people, if they haven't seen
them, they could go through.

493
00:23:45,640 --> 00:23:48,560
You should actually make a
playlist for it on your YouTube

494
00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:49,800
channel.
So, so you have them all

495
00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,040
together in one place.
I'll show you.

496
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:53,640
I didn't.
I didn't, Yeah.

497
00:23:53,760 --> 00:23:54,840
Thank you.
That'd be.

498
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:56,080
Awesome.
I appreciate you.