Ep 78: Kratom as a Lifeline: Cassie Craft's Story of Recovery and Relief

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Being our recovering addicts, we
still don't have to suffer in

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pain.
There are options and kratom is

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a good option.
So I think just because you're

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covering addicts doesn't mean
you can't have pain relief.

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You know, I'm not out there
stealing and I'm not out there

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going from storage store
shoplifting to get money to go

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buy my kratom like I did with
the heroin.

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The end of my addiction when I
lost my job, I was pretty much I

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was 1 inch away from going to
jail for shoplifting.

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So I'm here with Cassie Kraft,
somebody I met on social media,

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who's a kratom consumer, and I
love talking to people in our

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kratom community.
I love hearing these stories.

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So Cassie, thank you so much for
coming on to tell.

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You have quite a story from what
you've told me so far in our

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e-mail exchanges.
So tell everybody a little bit

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about you and life before kratom
came along.

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Well, I have a long history of
opiate addiction which stems

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from nursing career.
I became a nurse in 1998 and

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after I had my daughter, I
started developing chronic lower

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back pain from putting her car
seat in the car.

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And I went to my doctor and he
put me on pain pills.

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Back then they were he, they
were over prescribing opiates

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and he gave me my first script
at like over 200 pills and I got

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addicted from the first script
and I was on it for five years.

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At that time I was abusing a
muscle relaxant with the opiates

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and IODD at my at a graduation
party for his sis, my husband's

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sister.
And after that they put me

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through detox, got me clean.
I was clean for probably about 5

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or 6 years and then both my
parents passed away and I got

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majorly depressed.
The doctor started me back on

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tramadol which started my whole
opiate addiction again in

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nursing.
By the end of the addiction, I

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was buying poppy seeds offline
to have something at home to

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have the withdrawals off.
When I was doing nursing, I

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found ways to get it, which I
don't want to incriminate myself

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here, but I found ways to get it
without steal, stealing from the

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patients, you know.
But I did end up getting my

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hands on some narcotics that
way.

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And then I bought stuff from the
streets.

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I drove to Rochester, NY and
bought stuff from a drug dealer

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and towards the end I was on
heroin and using the poppy seeds

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to help with withdrawals when I
couldn't get anything.

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And then one of my friends gave
me Suboxone to help get me off

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the heroin.
And when I was doing that, I

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started injecting Benadryl to
get that high feeling and that

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pretty much destroyed most of my
veins and caused lots of scars.

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Let's see.
I ended up quitting that about

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six months later after I got
cleaned from the heroin.

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I did have a panic attack once
when I was getting pulled over

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by a cop.
Ended up in a car.

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You speed car chase.
So now I don't drive, I ride AE

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bike all year round to town and
back.

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I've known my local town as the
E bike girl live in a motel

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'cause I got evicted from my
losing my job doing drugs from

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just like attendance issues with
work, not for anything like you

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know, stealing drugs or
anything.

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I pretty much got my drugs by
going through garbages and

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stuff.
So that's how I got it.

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The legal I I didn't want to
break any laws.

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So pretty much that's pretty
much it with the opiates.

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I was clean since 2018.
I started going to the pot store

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for something to help me sleep
and then they sold me kratom

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too.
And that helped my depression

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and I didn't realize that that
it helped my back pain until I

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went off of it and that for a
month and be like, oh, that

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really was helping me.
So it's like I, I, my sciatica

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has gotten really bad.
My lower vertebrae just swings

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back and forth all the time.
It's pretty much the only thing

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that helps other than put my leg
up to my chest and like physical

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therapy stretches.
I'll put my leg right up to my

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up to my chest.
At work for like a second and

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then back down and it'll pop
back in place.

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Just I gave up nursing.
I work in a factory now, so I'm

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trying to stay away from any
anything like that.

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Wow, Cassie, you've been through
a lot.

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Yeah.
That's a lot and I and I'm glad

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you're doing OK.
In all the years of going

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through all this, did you ever
hear about before you found

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kratom?
Did you ever hear about it

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before?
Were you aware of?

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That in 2005, around the time
what might have been later 2012,

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I heard something about, I think
I I got something from cell.com

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overseas.
I think they said it was kratom

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or cava and I at the time I was
using opiate so it didn't do

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nothing for me.
I tried it once back then but

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because I was an opiate addict
and actively using opiates that

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it didn't do anything for me.
It didn't help my pain but I

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didn't give it enough time.
The kratom has helped more than

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anything that I've ever taken
and like I mean it just it takes

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away the pain.
There's no euphoric feeling and

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it helps my major depressive
disorder which gets worse in the

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winter I it gets.
It's like a magical plant.

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It's like a magical plant that
does so much.

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Yes it does and I I worry all
the time about it being banned.

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There is a bill in New York
since April to ban it.

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Oh I'm hoping it don't get
banned because it does help.

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It helps a lot of people.
I.

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I know advocates are working
really hard to try to keep it

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legal and, and talking to
legislators and, and, and that's

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why I'm so glad you're sharing
your story.

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I think when people hear these
positive stories about kratom,

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it can help turn that narrative
around.

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And and then there'd be no
reason to ban it because it's

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saving lives.
Yeah, and it it gives me, I

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mean, being an opiate addict, I
can't go to the doctors and ask

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for a pain medicine.
They won't give it to me.

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They won't.
I mean, years ago they gave me

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tramadol, but I don't want to be
on tramadol.

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That the withdrawal of tramadol
was the worst I've ever

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experienced.
I mean, I years ago when I was

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on it, I broke up with my
boyfriend.

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He like left like when I was at
work and I thought it was from

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my drug addiction to Tramadol.
So I flushed all my pills.

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I was upset.
I flushed it.

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I got so sick and weak and sick.
My sister had to take me to the

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doctor's 'cause I couldn't,
couldn't function.

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I was so weak.
I was closely I'm to go to the

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ER for fluids and he just gave
me another script for tramadol

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when you probably should.
Oh my God, He.

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Should have given me something
like suboxone or something and I

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it wouldn't help but he just
gave me another script from

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tramadol and told me don't stop
it right away again and then I.

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Oh my God.
Yeah, so, but back in 2005, the

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doctor first prescribed opiates.
He had a big pet.

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See, I worked with him in the
nursing home and he had this pin

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on his coat, lip coat.
It said it was a stop sign for

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pain, like no over pain, no pain
symbol or something.

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So I knew I could go to him and
get pain pills.

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I saw how he prescribed them to
his patients and it was easy to

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get them from him back then and
they ran them out of the town.

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I was going to the hospital I
was going to shortly after I

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went in for treatment, which is
probably good.

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He got a lot of people addicted.
Yeah, wow.

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So how long have you been using
kratom now?

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About a year, I think about last
July, I think I tried it.

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And you've been using it ever
since.

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Yeah, I mean, I stopped this
July because I was having

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digestive issues and I thought
it was the kratom.

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The even the doctor on the for
because I went through Ophelia

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for to get some Suboxone to help
me get off of that and I thought

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it was a kratom and he said it
was a kratom.

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But I was still doing the pot
gummies that night and it wasn't

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going away.
So I was like it's not the

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kratom it was the pot.
I'm just sensitive to THC.

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My daughter is too.
She lost a ton of weight doing

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pot.
Wow, how interesting.

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And So what?
So when in the period of time

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you stopped kratom, did you
notice anything different by not

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using kratom?
My pain level went way up.

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My sciatica kicked up and is lot
worse.

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And I was taking a lot more
Motrin, which is extremely bad

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for my kidneys since, well,
doing all the IV drugs.

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My, I don't know, they talk
about President Trump having

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edema on his legs.
I have it too.

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And that's what I'm doing IV
drugs.

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I just have it makes my, my, my
edema gets worse sometimes from

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the pot to I don't know, I mean,
I thought I'd get better if I

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got off of it.
I thought the nausea but the the

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the kratom helps with the pain
and it doesn't make me sick

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unless I take too much.
Yeah.

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But.
So what made you decide to start

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using kratom?
I was depressed, I was majorly

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depressed and I don't know if I
heard and might have saw an Ant

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on it or something and I just
asked to try it at the store and

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they sold me a little sample
bag.

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He said it would help my
depression and it did.

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It seemed to help like within
the first week.

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Wow, that's pretty cool.
I bet you were pretty wild by

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that, right?
That you're using a plant and

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was this the powder or extracts?
What?

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What kind of?
Product.

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You mean powder?
In a capsule it's the Max out

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brand actually it says extract
on it but I don't know if it

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really is it.
Oh OK, it's probably an extract

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powder.
I know they have like extracts

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that are liquid and then the
powder version, which is a bit

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stronger than just the regular
whole leaf powder.

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So if it says extract on it,
then that would be like a

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stronger version.
That's interesting like that.

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It started helping you right
away with that.

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Yeah, it did.
I was like a light.

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It was.
I was like living in darkness

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and a light opened up.
And in the winter time it's the

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worst for me with my depression.
I also have I've had reoccurrent

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major depressive disorders since
I was like 12, since I was a

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kid.
And that also I don't know.

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This is cold goes with the
depressive.

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It's called it's a skin picking
disorder.

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I used to pick up my head when I
was really depressed, something

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with OCD and I don't know, but
that that's been I haven't had

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an issue with that in years,
since 2018.

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It's something like if I start
picking it, I can't stop.

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I got to stop, you know, It's
all tied into my anxiety

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disorder and the depression, The
doctor said it's like

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tryptomania or something.
It's kind of embarrassing to

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say, but yeah, it's part of the.
I don't have any desire to do

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that on kratom either.
Wow how many things is kratom

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helping you with?
Sounds like it's it's helping

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you like with everything that
has to do with your health.

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Yeah, it helps my pain,
depression, a mood, everything.

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Pain, depression.
It gives me energy.

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I'm right now we're stuck in 10
hour days at work, working a lot

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of overtime.
I'm actually consider giving it

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to my dog.
She's 13 and just getting old

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and I can't.
She don't want to hop up on the

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bed anymore but I want to be
careful.

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I'm I'm waiting on the actual
I'm not because all I have is

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the extract.
So I'm I'd wait on the powder.

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Maybe sprinkle tiny bit in her
food?

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See if she.
Yeah, I, I some people, some

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people say they give it to their
dogs.

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Yeah, I mean, I've heard about
that.

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I haven't done a lot of research
into it, but I know that people

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have said that.
Yeah, they give it to their dog.

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And I imagine it's just the
powder, the holy powder.

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Yeah.
And I just bought a bag from I

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don't know, Chris Botanical is
it?

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Is the name Chris?
Yeah, Christopher.

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Christopher.
Yeah.

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Christopher.
Christopher.

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Organic Botanicals.
Yeah, I know.

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He gives it to his dog.
He's talked about it.

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Before, no, it wasn't
Christopher.

224
00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,120
It was the other one.
They're in California.

225
00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:04,960
He's got a cross on his.
Oh yeah, I.

226
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:10,000
Brought it back from him.
Some of that, that green, that

227
00:15:10,000 --> 00:15:12,240
super green stuff.
I'm going to try that.

228
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,680
Yeah, I love their their Super
Green Ultra is my favorite.

229
00:15:16,680 --> 00:15:19,160
They got really good.
His is really good and so is

230
00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:21,440
Christopher.
Those are two of my favorites.

231
00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:26,520
But yeah, I definitely look into
research with your dog because I

232
00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:29,200
some people say that it works
really well.

233
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,240
I, I don't know how much, I
don't know if any studies have

234
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:36,280
been done, you know, to see, but
people said it helps their dogs,

235
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,760
you know, in older age and well.
I know they would.

236
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:41,720
Help.
They've done studies with rats

237
00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:46,400
so it can't be too bad for.
Yeah, they've done rats.

238
00:15:46,640 --> 00:15:48,880
I mean they've done some studies
with dogs.

239
00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:52,520
What I'm aware of more recently
is with all the seven O 8 stuff

240
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:57,520
going on, I know there's been
some seven O 8 to research and

241
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:01,920
they use dogs, but 708 is not
the same as your regular whole

242
00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:03,960
leaf kratom or even extra
kratom.

243
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,040
Are you familiar with 708?
I have tried, I've been, I've

244
00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:11,080
taken it on and off for about
two weeks.

245
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:16,080
I'm trying to get off of it.
It's, I'm actually debating on

246
00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:21,160
getting extracts that are
stronger than what I have from

247
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:26,960
that guy in California or I have
Suboxone left.

248
00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,720
And I was thinking about just
trying to hold a bigger dose of

249
00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:34,800
that over like four or five days
and then going to the whole leaf

250
00:16:34,800 --> 00:16:39,000
powder.
So probably next weekend with

251
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,520
the holiday weekend.
I need like a couple days off to

252
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,960
do it.
How did you get started with

253
00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:46,920
708?
Was it something you heard about

254
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:48,960
at the pot store?
No.

255
00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,880
It was all the advertisement on
TikTok talking about being

256
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,280
banned.
I'm like, it's going to be

257
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:56,200
banned.
I want to try it once before

258
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,560
it's banned.
Now I'm one of the ones who went

259
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:06,000
out and tried it and like so,
but I, I, it makes my edema

260
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:07,839
worse so I have to get off of
that.

261
00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:13,359
There's no, I mean, I it affects
my kidneys bad.

262
00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,640
So there's no choice this
weekend, next weekend.

263
00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:24,040
I tried it this weekend and I
was I took some, I bought the

264
00:17:24,040 --> 00:17:27,920
store was at a pot.
So the gummies I usually buy

265
00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,680
they had this chocolate bar.
I took one of those, a little

266
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,840
tiny.
Piece of it and it made me so

267
00:17:33,840 --> 00:17:39,720
sick so it like messed up my
whole detox for 70 this weekend.

268
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:45,960
Exactly right next weekend.
But yeah, that's a different bad

269
00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:53,440
hole, but I'll get through it.
I mean, I think what happened is

270
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:57,720
I did start the Suboxone, but I
got pain.

271
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:03,600
So I took took some kratom which
were made made the made the

272
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,440
withdrawals.
Kick in the Suboxone not work,

273
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,120
so you got to do one or the
other.

274
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:14,200
So I have to stick to if I feel
cravings that take the more

275
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:18,320
Suboxone and not the kratom for
the four days.

276
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:22,400
And then once I get the seven O
out of my system, I can go back

277
00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:27,200
to the kratom.
So it's pretty they're both

278
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,440
Suboxone and kratom are pretty
much they're the same category.

279
00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:36,240
They're both opiate antagonist.
So I find them easy to switch

280
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:43,920
back and forth.
They say to do If so, I don't I

281
00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:47,960
don't think I'll have a problem
coming off of the that the

282
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,320
Suboxone and going to the whole
leaf powder.

283
00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:56,000
That's my.
Yeah, and, and Jordan from New

284
00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,680
Hope can advise you too.
I know he's he's helped over

285
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:02,960
1000 people probably by now
several 1000 people that have

286
00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,520
been trying to transition off of
seven.

287
00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:08,880
OH, and you know, he's helped
people like get started with the

288
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,120
extracts and then back down to
the powder.

289
00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:15,680
It's crazy how 70 gets a hold of
people so quickly.

290
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,000
I know, only two weeks.
It's only for two weeks.

291
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,600
Were you surprised?
That I've already gotten

292
00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,800
addicted to it.
Yeah, I'm pretty surprised.

293
00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:30,640
I mean, I'm not taking a huge
amounts like other people are.

294
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:37,000
I'm not only doing 10
milligrams, but still, you know,

295
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:42,080
I just need a couple days off
where I can actually and I have

296
00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:46,920
to one, I was able to stop
Kratom and go right on the

297
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:50,800
Suboxone without no problems.
So I should be able to do it

298
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:56,280
with the with the seven OS.
It's just I think I'd need to

299
00:19:56,280 --> 00:20:00,840
take a bigger dose next time,
probably bigger dose, and if I

300
00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:04,000
feel Kratom's coming on, I got
to take that and not something

301
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:08,160
else.
But.

302
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,320
Yeah.
So are you taking kratom at all?

303
00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:12,160
You're just right now seven O 8
and.

304
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:16,640
Suboxone, I've taken kratom,
I've taken my capsules right now

305
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:20,160
I take them to so I don't have
to take as much, so I don't have

306
00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,200
to take, you know, so I can off
of the seven O's.

307
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,920
I'd like to wean lower on it so
when the weekend comes, the

308
00:20:26,920 --> 00:20:30,000
holiday weekend comes, then I
can transition.

309
00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:34,480
You know, hopefully by the time
I go back to work I can be on

310
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:40,800
back on to the Kratom only or if
I need one more day on the

311
00:20:40,800 --> 00:20:43,760
Suboxone then I'll do that.
I don't know, I might have to

312
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:47,200
stay on it for a whole 7 days.
I have to see.

313
00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:52,520
Yeah.
Well, it's interesting that you

314
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,360
wanted to try the seven OH,
after seeing, you know, seeing

315
00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,600
the videos on TikTok and hearing
about the ban, we don't know

316
00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:00,880
when that ban's going to take
place nationwide.

317
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,920
I mean, all you know, so far the
FDA is saying they're the DEA

318
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,040
has to do it like it's up to the
DEA.

319
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,760
So they're recommending the DEA
make it a schedule one.

320
00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,840
How do you feel about this whole
schedule one, the schedule 1,

321
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:15,920
that's pretty hard.
And then with schedule 1, you

322
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,120
can't, you can't research with
Schedule 1, I think.

323
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:21,760
They should make like you know
how they did the medical

324
00:21:21,760 --> 00:21:24,520
marijuana cards.
I think they should do that for

325
00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:28,240
people with kratom.
If they do end up banning any of

326
00:21:28,240 --> 00:21:32,160
it, make it so people can go to
their doctors, get a medical

327
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:36,480
card to have access to it.
Especially for chronic people

328
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,880
with chronic pain.
The seven OS.

329
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,040
I don't know.
I don't really, I've heard

330
00:21:46,040 --> 00:21:50,320
people say that they cause very
bad kidney damage and liver

331
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:55,680
issues with people so probably
should be banned, but then

332
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,920
they're saying the science stuff
is they ban it, they can't do

333
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:01,680
any science on it.
Right.

334
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,080
But there are people with
chronic pain that take this too.

335
00:22:07,480 --> 00:22:11,080
It looks like a very promising
thing that could help, you know,

336
00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,360
people with chronic pain without
resorting to the, you know,

337
00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:16,600
current pharmaceutical, the
opioid pharmaceuticals.

338
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:18,520
But it needs research.
Yeah.

339
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:21,120
And step one, they wouldn't be
able to do that.

340
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:25,080
Now, now.
But also shouldn't be in gas

341
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:26,600
stations.
It shouldn't be so easily

342
00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,360
accessible.
No.

343
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:32,760
Or even make a medical card for
people to be able to just go

344
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,360
and, you know, show their
medical card for it.

345
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:38,880
It makes more loops to go
through to get their hands on

346
00:22:38,880 --> 00:22:44,400
it.
But some that way everyday

347
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,320
addicts can't just go to the
store and get it.

348
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:52,480
There are worser things out
there.

349
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:55,080
And then seven.
OH, like fentanyl.

350
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:00,400
And I just read an article today
about fentanyl being in those

351
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:03,560
perc pills.
Someone commented that they

352
00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,960
tested positive from the brand
perk that sells $7.00.

353
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:13,800
And I'm like, I've taken that
like within the last two weeks

354
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,440
I've had a perk brand from my
dispensary down the road.

355
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:21,800
So I'm like, well, I wonder how
my tax screen's going to show up

356
00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:28,480
because I have to do one with my
appointment with the my Ophelia

357
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:34,960
Rep on this next Thursday.
So I do a urine screen for that,

358
00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:38,200
but I took some Suboxone this
this weekend.

359
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,960
So it should still be in my
system.

360
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:44,880
But I'm like, I hope I don't
positive for fentanyl because

361
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:47,560
they're they're they're saying
that they're putting that in

362
00:23:47,560 --> 00:23:51,920
some of the Seminole products to
get people more addicted to it,

363
00:23:51,960 --> 00:23:55,640
I guess.
Wow, I haven't heard about that.

364
00:23:56,200 --> 00:23:58,920
That's.
Yeah, I read it in a comment

365
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:03,160
that someone said they tested
positive from the Perk brand of

366
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:08,280
Seven O.
I'll have to look into that.

367
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:09,840
I haven't heard about that at
all.

368
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,400
I mean, that'd be really bad if
they're doing, you know,

369
00:24:15,120 --> 00:24:20,840
adulterating their products.
But I I mean my understanding

370
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,840
from what so many people say is
already super addictive as I.

371
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:25,120
Know.
Yeah, it is.

372
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,800
I know.
Unless they, who knows, maybe

373
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,080
they did something on the
streets, got slipped to them

374
00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,960
somehow that, you know, you just
have to touch it to get

375
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:40,000
positive.
You can actually accidentally

376
00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:44,720
get exposed to it.
You know, it might not have even

377
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:52,520
been the might not even been the
Seven O Perks brand, Who knows?

378
00:24:53,080 --> 00:24:55,800
Just something I read today,
which made me worry because I

379
00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,240
take that brand.
I've taken that brand once.

380
00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:02,200
I bought that brand once down
there like when I first started

381
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,280
two weeks ago.
But a week, maybe a week and a

382
00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:09,960
half ago should be way out of my
system.

383
00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:13,120
Even if it did have it in
because it's what, four days?

384
00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:16,600
I should be OK.
Yeah.

385
00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:18,720
But.
Wow.

386
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,800
It's OK, I'm about ready to end
with Ophelia anyways because

387
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:28,600
it's too expensive.
I'm paying $249 a month for it

388
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:34,080
with my medical card.
It's A at home drug treatment

389
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:41,880
thing you can get kind of like
the doctor MD thing that's on

390
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:48,240
people are getting Suboxone from
I don't know, it's some web MD

391
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,920
thing that they say you can go
to.

392
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:56,320
And Ophelia is another one.
So I'm, I was about to, I'm

393
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,040
about to end it anyways because
I I'm not going to stop the

394
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:04,440
kratom because it helps me.
So I mean, it's nice to have on

395
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:11,640
hand in case they do ban it.
I have something but I don't.

396
00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,560
Know.
I I I literally need back

397
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:21,920
surgery cause but I don't want
back surgery 'cause it, it would

398
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,720
make things worse.
Yeah, at least.

399
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,600
Well-being that you were in the
nursing industry, you you

400
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,600
probably know more than than the
average person about how all

401
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:35,200
that is.
The only surgery I can say for

402
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,280
that I've ever found success
with the patients are hip

403
00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:43,440
replacements, our back, knees,
all that.

404
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:46,880
I've seen people come out of
knee replacements with cement

405
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:51,000
blocks in their knees.
The only one I'd say with good

406
00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,320
reviews on in my eyes as a
nurse, would be hip surgeries.

407
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:57,960
Yeah.
Not not.

408
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:02,080
Back surgeries make it worse.
A lot of times knee surgeries

409
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:08,480
make it 10 times worse.
So I try to stay, I mean I

410
00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:14,200
probably qualify for a couple
back surgeries 'cause now I have

411
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:17,280
pinched nerve in my neck from
working in a factory with my

412
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:21,200
head bent down all the time,
which that flares up sometimes

413
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,880
the sciatica is really bad
though, so it's like goes down

414
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,720
both sides of my legs and the
right side more.

415
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,120
And I and the only thing I found
that helps it besides the kratom

416
00:27:34,120 --> 00:27:38,800
is losing weight helps and put
my leg up to my chest.

417
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:41,400
It pops that vertebrae Brae
back.

418
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,480
I don't know you have back
issues don't you?

419
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,960
I read.
I do, I do.

420
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:50,560
And I've had sciatica once a
very long time ago.

421
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:53,520
And that that was probably the
most miserable six months of my

422
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,360
life.
That sciatica is awful with that

423
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:00,240
shooting pain from the top of
your butt down your legs and it

424
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,720
and you can't get comfortable
don't matter sitting or

425
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:04,160
standing.
And I remember just trying to

426
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,560
sit was so hard.
You just can't get comfortable.

427
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:12,440
So I I can sit.
Standing and walking it's it

428
00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:16,040
gets the nerve pain actually
goes in the front and my groin.

429
00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,280
Sometimes it almost feels for a
while there I thought I was

430
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,320
having appendicitis because it
feels goes down the front of my

431
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:27,640
groin like like a blood vessel.
But it's it's all connected to

432
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,000
that back to my back because
when I put my leg up, it goes

433
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,560
away.
Interesting.

434
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,480
Yeah, mine was always shooting
down my my back from my back to

435
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:39,840
my leg.
It was always the backside.

436
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:44,920
It goes into my hip too.
I think I had a really bad bout

437
00:28:44,920 --> 00:28:48,880
probably about the time that I
started the kratom last year and

438
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,840
it was so bad.
I was limping.

439
00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:57,880
I could hardly walk.
I was limping people and my limp

440
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,560
was pretty bad.
People would noticing it that I

441
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:02,800
was limping and it was all from
the sciatica.

442
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:11,000
I have to take something and I
can't take and I can't be on

443
00:29:11,000 --> 00:29:15,080
opiates and I definitely never
take touching tramadol again.

444
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,920
I did experiment with poppy pod
tea and poppy seed tea when I

445
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,280
was at the end of my addiction
to keep from going into

446
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,720
withdrawals.
That was easy to get and the

447
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,680
poppy pots back then were legal
to get as long as you were

448
00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:39,680
buying them for art.
But I wasn't using them legally.

449
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:46,480
But they're they're very
expensive though in the seeds

450
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,560
you have to be careful to buy.
They have to be unwashed.

451
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:53,400
Cause I'd put them in a bottle
in my pot bottles and fill them

452
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,680
up with warm water and I'd shake
them with a little lemon juice.

453
00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,480
And it's kind of just how you do
your kratom stuff.

454
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,600
I'd shake it with juice and then
I'd drink it down after 5

455
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,000
minutes and it would take the
withdrawals away.

456
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:08,280
It wouldn't make me euphoric or
high it.

457
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,560
It would be a low dose of
opiates, just enough to keep me

458
00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:18,880
from getting sick.
That's it's kind of some some of

459
00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:22,960
the crayon drinks that they talk
about how they make their their

460
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:27,680
the whole leaf powder reminds me
of how I did my tea back then.

461
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:32,720
But it got pretty messy though
having lots of fat that was full

462
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:35,280
of seeds.
They stink after a while too and

463
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,680
they blow up.
You don't throw them out right

464
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:40,880
away.
Yeah.

465
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:44,680
That's interesting, I don't know
much about.

466
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:47,320
I've heard some people talk
about poppy seeds.

467
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,680
Is it banned in certain places?
I thought I've heard that

468
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,840
there's some bands with it or?
I don't know.

469
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,760
Or they want to ban it.
I stopped at the sometime in

470
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:02,240
2018.
Or was it 17?

471
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:04,760
There was a hurricane and I
couldn't get any.

472
00:31:05,000 --> 00:31:07,280
They used to sell it all the
time on eBay.

473
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,360
I was just doing a little search
a few minutes ago to see if they

474
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:14,320
still had it, thought maybe it
could help me get off the seven

475
00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:19,800
O's just just to fill those
receptors.

476
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,360
And then I did find some on Etsy
that sell the unwashed poppy

477
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,880
seeds, but they're expensive.
They're almost as expensive as

478
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:31,040
the kratom, or it makes a little
bit more.

479
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:35,560
They're pretty expensive.
Wow.

480
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,200
I would definitely suggest you
reach out to Jordan from New

481
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:43,400
Hope Botanicals where you bought
some that kratom, because he's

482
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,120
been really helpful with people
with, you know, just things they

483
00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:50,520
can do to get off of seven.
OH, that might help you, you

484
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,680
know, but it sounds like you're
you know what to do and you have

485
00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,720
a plan and that's great.
I just hate that it affected you

486
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,320
so quickly.
Yeah.

487
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:02,200
But other people say the same
thing.

488
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,960
So many people say, some people
said they got a free sample of

489
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:09,200
the smoke shop and that was all
it took was that first time Oh.

490
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:15,160
I'm an addict, recovering
addict, but yeah, I still very

491
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,240
susceptible that anything
addicting.

492
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,200
And the guy who sold it to me
said they're really addicting.

493
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,160
He warned me.
And I'm like, I just want to try

494
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,080
it.
I, I told him I had Suboxone on

495
00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:31,120
hand in case I needed it.
And yeah, I took it this

496
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,760
weekend.
I went almost a full, I think I

497
00:32:35,120 --> 00:32:37,840
more than 12 hours.
It was like almost 18 hours

498
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,280
without a dose.
And I started the Suboxone.

499
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:46,040
But that night I had started
having withdrawal symptoms but

500
00:32:46,040 --> 00:32:51,120
I'd taken Kratom for the pain
and I think it counteracted or

501
00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:56,560
something that it made that
nitroxone or whatever kick in.

502
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,840
So I didn't get no effects.
But for some reason 7 oaths

503
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:03,880
don't affect the suboxone at
all.

504
00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,000
I could take it right on top and
still feel it.

505
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,680
That's interesting.
Yeah, it doesn't, doesn't stop

506
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:19,080
anything with those.
But I I think with the cravings

507
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,720
though, I think it just, I
didn't take it too big of a dose

508
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,800
because I don't want to use up.
I have a ton of see she first

509
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:30,320
prescribed 8 milligrams and I
have a ton of them, but I was

510
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:38,640
taking such a tiny dose of the
when I stopped the kratom that I

511
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,480
had a bunch leftover.
So she put me on fours, which

512
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,320
were easier to cut down to tiny
dose.

513
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:48,400
So I still, I have a ton of it,
but it's not like I don't have

514
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,120
the higher dose to get me off
the seven O's.

515
00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:55,960
So I'd like to try that since I
already have it.

516
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:57,400
I'm going to try that this
weekend.

517
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,480
And if that don't work, then I'm
going to reach out to Jordan

518
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,680
because I looked at those
extracts and they're pretty

519
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:09,440
expensive and I already have
left some of that Max out, which

520
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,159
says it's an extract too, but
his is probably a better

521
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:17,840
quality.
Usually, not all, but a lot of

522
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,159
times the smoke shops or the pot
stores usually sell lower

523
00:34:21,159 --> 00:34:26,560
quality kratom products.
They're usually like, I've

524
00:34:26,560 --> 00:34:31,120
always bought mine from online
vendors like like Jordan and and

525
00:34:31,120 --> 00:34:32,639
Christopher's and others like
that.

526
00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:38,080
And it they've, they've always
been really good high quality.

527
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:40,560
And then when I talk to people
that buy from a smoke shop and

528
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:43,960
they hear me talk about new
Hopatanicals or Christopher's,

529
00:34:43,960 --> 00:34:45,440
they're like, I'm going to go
try it.

530
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:48,120
And then so many times they'll
say, oh, my God, it's like night

531
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:50,960
and day.
This is theirs is so much better

532
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,480
than what I buy at the store.
And usually the stores charge

533
00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,040
more money, too.
Yeah, than when you buy it

534
00:34:57,040 --> 00:34:59,000
online.
That bag I have is like 50

535
00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,200
bucks.
It's just a little green 500

536
00:35:02,200 --> 00:35:08,640
capsules of the Max out kratom.
It's the green Magda stuff.

537
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:13,680
It's like 50 bucks for the 500
and I think it's around 30 for

538
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:18,160
the 200 and 50s or 20.
It got pretty it see it got

539
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:21,320
pretty expensive buying the pot.
I was buying the pot every week

540
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:26,440
and then I was buying the kratom
every so often got pretty

541
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,360
expensive.
So I was like, I got to do

542
00:35:28,360 --> 00:35:31,200
something to cut back and I
started with the kratom first

543
00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:35,160
and realized that I had a lot
more pain relief with the kratom

544
00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:40,000
and I said the nausea.
I literally it wasn't.

545
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,560
It was like no appetite and
nauseous like in between meals,

546
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:46,520
like in between doses, which was
funny.

547
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:49,840
When I took the pot dose to go
to sleep, I felt hungry.

548
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:55,920
But in between, during the next
day, I was just no appetite and

549
00:35:56,440 --> 00:36:02,040
didn't feel like eating.
I had to do light snacks and I

550
00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:04,800
they thought it was from the
kratom from all that plant

551
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:10,360
matter but it wasn't.
Interesting and yeah and yeah

552
00:36:10,360 --> 00:36:13,520
many times you don't know until
you stop something or like oh,

553
00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:16,720
it wasn't that after all.
Is your ultimate goal Cassie is

554
00:36:16,720 --> 00:36:20,440
to get to the point where it's
just Kratom powder only is what

555
00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,720
you're.
Yes, I'd like to do the kratom

556
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:26,520
powder only and just have
relief.

557
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:31,480
That way it's still be something
for my opiate receptors so I

558
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,120
won't be feeling like
something's always missing.

559
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:37,440
That's one thing getting clean
off of opiates, I always felt

560
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:43,040
like something in my life was
missing, like just felt off even

561
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,000
when I was clean.
It's like it, it would be at

562
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:50,560
least it would take care of my
pain and it would fill those

563
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,560
receptors.
Which actually the doctor on

564
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:58,200
Ophelia told me I qualified for
the long term shot because I had

565
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:00,280
so many years of opiate
addiction.

566
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,440
But I don't really want to be on
the shot.

567
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,840
Because then I want to get
relief from kratom.

568
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:11,320
Good thinking.
Yeah.

569
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:14,960
What would you say to somebody
who's curious about 70 just like

570
00:37:14,960 --> 00:37:18,160
you were a few weeks ago?
They're like, huh, I should go

571
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:21,200
check this out because I mean,
people have said they're they've

572
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,640
been trying it because of this
looming band that that's coming.

573
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,400
So what would you say to
somebody who's thinking that

574
00:37:27,400 --> 00:37:28,600
same thing too?
That you?

575
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:33,160
Don't they tell them it's highly
addicting, just like heroin, the

576
00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,640
first dose I tell them don't
you're going to regret it and

577
00:37:37,640 --> 00:37:42,400
you're going to have a hard time
getting off of that even with

578
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:44,600
Suboxone.
It's going to be hard to kick

579
00:37:44,840 --> 00:37:48,440
even with Suboxone, especially
since.

580
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,720
My pain is suboxone don't help
my pain.

581
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:57,640
It's going to be very hard.
I'm going to tell them don't

582
00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,840
you're going to regret it, not
do it.

583
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,520
I direct them to the just the
plain kratom, the holy kratom

584
00:38:07,360 --> 00:38:11,360
and to stay away from extracts.
I tell them to stay away.

585
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,360
From Xbox.
Stay away from them too.

586
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:16,680
And to read your packaging
because I didn't know my Max out

587
00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:20,160
was an extractor.
I saw some of your videos and I

588
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:22,600
looked in the back of the bag
and I'm like, oh, it says it's

589
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:24,560
an extra.
I didn't know that.

590
00:38:25,040 --> 00:38:27,400
I've been taking them.
I've been taking three of them.

591
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,960
I was taking three of them every
three hours when I was using

592
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,360
them.
Then I stopped.

593
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,240
And I don't take that much now,
so I take one or two, but I

594
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:42,160
don't take 3 and I don't take
them every three hours anymore

595
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:47,000
either.
Yeah, well, it's so interesting

596
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,680
you say that because I did
interview a lady a while back.

597
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:54,400
Her name is Cassie as well and
how she discovered kratom to

598
00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:58,360
help her, you know, get out of
addiction with her drug use.

599
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,200
And and she said she wasn't
paying attention to the

600
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:05,800
packaging.
But then she heard my podcast,

601
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:08,520
she was listening to my podcast
and she heard us talk about it

602
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:09,760
as well.
Like what you're saying.

603
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,720
And she went and checked and it
said extracts.

604
00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:14,440
And she she couldn't believe
that's what she was taking

605
00:39:14,440 --> 00:39:17,680
without even realizing it.
So she started educating

606
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,440
herself, paying attention to the
packages.

607
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,480
Talk to the smoke shop like
y'all sold me this extracts, but

608
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,640
she said they were not
knowledgeable anyway, because

609
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,360
when she's like asking about
Kratom, they just point, you

610
00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:33,240
know, here, here's what you want
to buy here, buy these capsules.

611
00:39:33,240 --> 00:39:36,560
But they didn't know anything.
And I think it's just really

612
00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:39,320
important to educate yourself so
you know exactly what you're

613
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:41,680
taking.
So I'm glad that you you learned

614
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:43,920
about that and and know what it
is.

615
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,600
Yeah, your podcast did teach me
that, and I looked at my

616
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:52,000
packaging.
I also check you believe it or

617
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,560
not, the pot store or don't,
they don't have cava.

618
00:39:54,560 --> 00:39:58,560
I asked them if they had that
cava cava stuff because they

619
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,680
thought that might help too.
They don't even have that there.

620
00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,360
They don't have they have the
seven on the kratom but no cava

621
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,080
products.
Yeah, yeah, I've, I've been

622
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:13,800
learning, yeah, Kava I've been
learning more about I think

623
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,880
Jordan at New Hope Botanical
sells some kind of Kava product.

624
00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:21,960
There's now they are the extract
shots that are kratom and Kava

625
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,040
combine, but a lot of people
have talked about how they've

626
00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,680
gotten addicted to those that
they're pretty addictive.

627
00:40:28,240 --> 00:40:34,000
But it, you know, just depends
on what you're trying to get out

628
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:39,160
of it, being responsible using
it if you can to to avoid any

629
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,480
issues.
But you know, there's been, you

630
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:44,440
know, those feel free.
Are the kratom cava shots or

631
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:49,160
some other different brands, But
just the cava only.

632
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,720
I've tried some of those there.
There's shots of those where

633
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:54,280
it's like a cava extract.
I like them.

634
00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,880
They're expensive so I can't do
it very often, but it's just

635
00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,800
these little cava shots and like
Happy Hippo sells them.

636
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:06,320
I've I've tried theirs.
They're one of the vendors on

637
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,920
my, I have like I've put
together like this Madeline's

638
00:41:08,920 --> 00:41:11,440
approved vendor list of like
just the different ones I've

639
00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:14,800
researched myself.
I buy, buy from them and it's

640
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,840
like, well, I want people to
know these are great.

641
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,720
You know, if they're looking for
a good vendor to try, these are

642
00:41:20,720 --> 00:41:22,440
the ones that I use and
recommend.

643
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:26,800
So I so I tried the Kava shots
from Happy Hippo and it's just a

644
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:31,080
nice relaxing feeling but
without impairment.

645
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:36,000
It's almost like a muscle
relaxer or or a drink of alcohol

646
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,040
but there's no high or
impairment but it's just it's a

647
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,680
nice feeling.
It doesn't last long for me.

648
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:46,520
It only lasts a few hours, so
it's a bit pricey for something

649
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:52,040
like that, but it is a nice
alternative to drinking or

650
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:53,840
muscle relaxers.
I think.

651
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:57,720
I don't know if it's addicting.
I don't think it is.

652
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:01,600
I don't I think I've read that
it's not an addictive type of

653
00:42:01,600 --> 00:42:03,240
Prague.
It's a route, you know, it's a

654
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:08,240
route from the South Pacific is
where it comes from.

655
00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:13,920
But I don't know.
I mean, it's it's definitely

656
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:17,120
something, you know, people
should research and look into

657
00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,600
because this is is here's what's
interesting, Cassie.

658
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,080
I didn't pay attention to plant
medicine much until I lost

659
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:26,000
access to my meds for my chronic
pain.

660
00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,560
Discover kratom.
And then through the kratom

661
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:31,960
community, so many people talk
about all different kinds of

662
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:37,040
botanical products.
So it's it's interesting like

663
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,600
just learning from other.
I like, I don't ever hear

664
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:41,800
anybody talk about Ophelia.
I didn't know much about that

665
00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:48,200
because that's a plant, right?
No Ophelia is a company for drug

666
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:51,920
at home, drug detoxing and drug
treatment.

667
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:54,640
OK, it shows you how much I
know.

668
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:56,080
It's if.
You.

669
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,280
I thought there was like a flour
or something.

670
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:02,480
They have an ad on TikTok.
It's pretty much a Suboxone

671
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:05,120
company.
They advertise Suboxone.

672
00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:13,480
So it's just A at home drug
treatment kind of like that that

673
00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:14,280
and.
Yeah, I see it.

674
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:18,160
I see it on Google.
Yeah, I see it on Google.

675
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,480
Yeah, I think the reason why I
think of it is like botanical is

676
00:43:22,480 --> 00:43:27,000
because I think back to this was
a long time ago, but Natalie

677
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:30,800
Merchant, she this yeah,
probably I'd be a little bit

678
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:33,200
older like me to know this one.
So she used to be the singer of

679
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,840
10,000 Maniacs.
And when she went solo, she her

680
00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:37,640
solo album, she had one of her
solo albums.

681
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,240
I remember it was Ophelia
something and it was the flat

682
00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:42,640
this flower.
So I just always associate

683
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:45,800
whenever I hear Ophelia, I think
of that flower that was on her

684
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,800
album cover.
So I just thought I guess it's a

685
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:51,680
planet or a flower or something.
So shows you how little I know

686
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,520
about all this.
But I'm glad you brought this up

687
00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:56,000
because I'm sure some people are
listening to this and they're

688
00:43:56,040 --> 00:43:58,680
they're getting educated on this
stuff and didn't know about.

689
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:05,000
People addicted to seven O, they
can contact them to get on

690
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:07,240
Suboxone.
They'll give you comfort meds

691
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:11,720
for detoxing.
I mean, I probably can talk to

692
00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:16,400
my counselor and tell.
Her I slipped up and had some 7

693
00:44:16,480 --> 00:44:17,880
OS.
Maybe she'll give me some

694
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:21,880
comfort meds to help me get back
on track.

695
00:44:24,840 --> 00:44:28,280
Well, I, I'm so glad that you
wanted to come on this podcast

696
00:44:28,280 --> 00:44:31,120
and Share your story and talk
because I mean this, you're

697
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:33,160
being really vulnerable sharing
all of this.

698
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:36,320
IA lot of people are not
comfortable opening up this

699
00:44:36,320 --> 00:44:38,880
much.
And I'm so glad you you you

700
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:41,120
wanted to come do this because
I'm sure plenty of people are

701
00:44:41,120 --> 00:44:44,480
watching this right now and are
relating to everything you're

702
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,640
saying.
Yeah, well-being a recovering

703
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:51,240
addicts, we still don't have to
suffer in pain.

704
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,280
There are options and kratom is
a good option.

705
00:44:55,720 --> 00:45:01,000
So I think just because you're
covering addict doesn't mean you

706
00:45:01,000 --> 00:45:05,480
can't have pain relief.
You know I'm not out there

707
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:09,960
stealing and I'm not out there
going from storage store

708
00:45:09,960 --> 00:45:14,760
shoplifting to get money to go
buy my kratom like I did with

709
00:45:14,760 --> 00:45:20,520
the heroin.
I mean I the end of my addiction

710
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:25,160
when I lost my job, I was pretty
much I was 1 inch away from

711
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:32,320
going to jail for shoplifting.
I got pretty lucky literally I

712
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,400
got very lucky almost got caught
a couple times.

713
00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:42,680
So I'm I don't ever do that now.
If I go to the store now I pay

714
00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:47,320
for everything.
I wouldn't even even a piece of

715
00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,840
gum.
I pay for everything now and I'm

716
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:53,120
an avid Christian now.
So I'm I'm involved in my

717
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,600
church.
I teach Sunday school to kids.

718
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:04,520
So and I try, you know, I don't
engage in that simple lifestyle

719
00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:08,200
anymore.
And that's how I like kratom

720
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:10,240
because I don't have to go to
those lengths.

721
00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:16,720
I don't have to go steal $200
worth of stuff to go get a

722
00:46:16,720 --> 00:46:21,280
handful of hair, you know,
handful of heroin like I used

723
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:26,800
to.
Yeah.

724
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:32,120
And I gave up nursing.
But I mean, down the road I

725
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:34,960
might be able to work in a
doctor's office, at least as

726
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:36,480
long as I'm not behind a
medicine.

727
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:40,880
Cart I'll be fine.
I still have my license I just

728
00:46:40,880 --> 00:46:44,800
don't I haven't renewed it in a
few in a couple years because

729
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:51,520
I've been working as a nurse so.
But I've decided that if I ever

730
00:46:51,520 --> 00:46:55,920
go back to nursing I'm not going
to have narcotic keys anymore.

731
00:46:56,160 --> 00:47:00,760
It's like alcoholic working at a
bar so.

732
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:05,800
Yeah.
Well, this has been so I'm so

733
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,040
glad you came on to talk about
all this is so great.

734
00:47:08,040 --> 00:47:11,160
My last question for you, This
is why I always like to end it

735
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:15,760
asking our guest, knowing
everything you know about kratom

736
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:18,760
in this past year you've been
using it, what advice would you

737
00:47:18,760 --> 00:47:21,040
give to someone to help them get
started their own kratom

738
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:23,360
journey?
Well, I first, I'd haven't

739
00:47:23,360 --> 00:47:27,320
listened to your podcast and I
tell him to buy the whole leaf

740
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:31,080
powder.
I direct them to your list of

741
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,680
vendors.
Tell them start small, I've

742
00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:37,160
heard that a lot.
Start small and work your way

743
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:43,080
up.
I tell them to I advise them to

744
00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:48,000
talk to their doctor 1st and see
maybe get some blood work done.

745
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:51,160
Make sure your kidneys and your
liver levels are all fine before

746
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:55,400
you start it.
And just to tell them to go

747
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:57,800
slow.
Take small doses and work your

748
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:05,000
way up to what relieves your
pain are definitely tell them

749
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,560
and to follow up with their
doctor while they're on it and

750
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,080
get frequent blood work to make
sure that their liver and

751
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:15,160
kidneys are handling it well.
Especially with someone like me

752
00:48:15,160 --> 00:48:18,240
who's got damage probably in
both areas.

753
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:23,320
That's great advice, really good
advice.

754
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,920
Definitely recommend seeing your
doctor if anything, just to get

755
00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,720
lab work to make sure I do that.
And I've I've been consuming

756
00:48:29,720 --> 00:48:32,360
Kratom every day for six years.
I've never had any issues with

757
00:48:32,360 --> 00:48:34,480
my labs.
My kidneys are fine, my liver's

758
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,160
fine.
I'm comfortable enough telling

759
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:39,600
my doctor I use kratom.
I know not everybody is, so I

760
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,520
think that's fine.
But my doctor's super impressed

761
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,400
and I'm getting all this pain
relief with the plant and she's

762
00:48:45,400 --> 00:48:47,400
always telling me my labs look
great.

763
00:48:47,400 --> 00:48:50,880
So keep doing what you're doing.
And I think that's always

764
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:53,080
reassuring to hear from a
medical professional.

765
00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,040
And as long as it's still not
banned where you live, it should

766
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,120
be something you can talk to
your doctor about.

767
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:05,160
It's not like you're consuming
illegal product so you can't.

768
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,000
You'd be ashamed to tell your
doctor.

769
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:09,520
They should be able to open up
to their doctor and tell them

770
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:13,200
why they're taking it.
Especially since kratom treats

771
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:17,920
more than just chronic pain, it
treats depression too, anxiety,

772
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,680
obsessive compulsive disorder.
I've heard I've heard that helps

773
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:25,280
with alcoholism.
I have had a little bit of

774
00:49:25,280 --> 00:49:28,880
problem with alcohol too, which
it has curbed my drinking.

775
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:33,520
I if I do drink, I'll drink once
over the weekend, just a couple

776
00:49:33,520 --> 00:49:38,360
drinks and then I'm done.
I don't I don't like I used to

777
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,120
binge drink over the weekends.
I don't do that anymore.

778
00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,800
So I just, yeah, tell them to
see the doctor.

779
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:50,880
I tell them not to mix it with
anything.

780
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,400
Don't mix it with like pain
pills and don't mix it.

781
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:00,040
I advise them not to mix it with
alcohol.

782
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,280
If they're going to drink, make
sure that they haven't taken the

783
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:07,640
creatinine at least for four
hours, which is usually what I

784
00:50:07,640 --> 00:50:09,320
do.
I make sure it's, you know,

785
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:14,600
between dosing or just before
bed and when I'm going to bed

786
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:20,040
and not, you know, having any.
Oh, just tell them be careful

787
00:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,840
not to mix it with anything else
because that's when they have

788
00:50:22,840 --> 00:50:25,800
serious complications.
It's for mixing up.

789
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,280
That's all great advice, Cassie.
Thank you so much for coming on

790
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,280
the podcast.
This has been a great

791
00:50:34,280 --> 00:50:36,520
discussion.
I appreciate your time.

792
00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,840
Oh, thank you for having me.
I appreciate it.