Ep 79: From Exhaustion to Empowerment: How Kratom Changed Sarah Pitta’s Life

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We were pretty worn out and we
started trying to search for

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something that was natural.
We didn't want to go on opiates

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or prescription medications or
anything like that.

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So that's when we started
searching for something that we

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thought would help and that was
natural.

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And he was a over the road truck
driver.

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He worked long night, so he had
to stay awake, obviously, and he

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couldn't be on prescription
medicine and his back was really

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taking a beating from driving a
truck when he had that back

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injury.
So if he didn't find kratom, he

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probably would have had to leave
his job at that point.

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So it's really good that we
found it when we did.

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So it saved his job.
And actually, when I started

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taking it, I got a promotion at
my job because I started to do

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better at work because I wasn't
so exhausted and I was in a

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better mood and it helped me
more than I thought it would.

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It was amazing.
I'm here with Sarah PETA from

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Metrospect Kratom.
This is a fellow kratom consumer

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advocate industry person.
So excited Sarah to have you on

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the podcast.
Can't wait to hear your story.

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How are you doing today?
Thanks for being here.

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Good.
How are you?

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And thank you for having me on
here.

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I'm so excited that you have the
space where people can share

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their kratom stories.
It's really important.

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So really excited to be here.
Well, I love connecting with

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fellow like minded people that
are, are like me, consumers

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advocates and just trying to
help educate people, you know,

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to know more about kratom and
and you know, the benefits and

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how we can help you.
So I'm really excited about this

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conversation.
So why don't we start off with

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you telling everybody a little
bit about you and life before

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kratom?
OK so I'm a mom.

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Before I discovered kratom I had
two young kids, toddler and

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another toddler, and I was
working full time.

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My husband was working full time
and I didn't have a lot of

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energy.
I was pretty tired.

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I didn't have time to do a lot
of things for my kids because I

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was exhausted from working like
10 hour days.

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We both had chronic pain
injuries.

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My husband had a really bad back
injury that he constantly was

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taking ibuprofen.
I was taking ibuprofen a little

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too much where it wasn't good
for our stomachs.

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So we were really hoping to find
something that would help.

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So that was before kratom.
We were pretty worn out and we

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started trying to search for
something that was natural.

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We didn't want to go on opiates
or prescription medications or

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anything like that, So that's
when we started searching for

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something that we thought would
help and that was natural.

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So that was before we found
kratom and we were exhausted so.

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Yeah, so looking looking for
something to help with energy

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and then also because y'all both
had some pain issues, just

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trying to find an alternative
that was natural.

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Yes, and he was a over the road
truck driver.

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He worked long night so he had
to stay awake obviously, and he

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couldn't be on prescription
medicine and his back was really

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taking a beating from driving a
truck when he had that back

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injury.
So if he didn't find kratom, he

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probably would have had to leave
his job at that point.

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So it's really good that we
found it when we did.

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So it saved his job.
And actually when I started

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taking it, I got a promotion at
my job because I started to do

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better at work because I wasn't
so exhausted and I was in a

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better mood and it helped me
more than I thought it would.

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It was amazing so.
Yeah, that was awesome.

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So, So what led y'all to like,
you found kratom?

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Was it Google or like how?
How did y'all first discover it?

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Yep, it was Google.
My husband actually found it

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first and he started researching
it.

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I wasn't too sure about it
because it was mainly in

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Indonesia, so I started looking
into it and ordering from a

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different country and not
knowing the product that well

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was a little scary I guess to
me.

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But eventually we found a good
supplier and we ordered it and

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it came and we tried it and it
was great.

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It really worked.
We started with powder, with

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chocolate milk.
We tried to cover up the earthy

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taste.
I wasn't a big fan of the taste.

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It didn't bother him so much.
But me, I had kind of a tough

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time.
So I tried to mix it with

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pineapple juice, orange juice,
and eventually I got into making

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my own capsules and just capping
it because I liked it better

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than drinking it.
I know everyone's different,

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Some people like the taste, but
for me it was a little too

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earthy, I guess, yeah.
It's very earthy.

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I had the same problem in the
beginning.

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You know, I started with
capsules because everybody

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online was saying how bad it
tastes.

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So I thought, all right, I'm
just going to be a wuss about

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it, let me do capsules.
And it didn't do very much.

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And I thought, well, this is
strange, but I'm also taking a

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bunch of these capsules.
So over time I thought maybe the

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capsule shells just aren't
opening up.

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I people say poke holes.
I did, I did all the things and

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still I didn't get great
results.

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I got like kind of OK results.
But then one day I'm like, let

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me open the capsules and just
mix it up.

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And I know it's going to taste
bad, but let me just make it,

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drink it fast.
And I honestly, I thought I was

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going to puke it.
It tastes so bad for me the

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first time but I noticed a huge
difference and I got better pain

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relief and I thought OK I'm just
going to suck it up.

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I did try the chocolate milk
because people said that's a

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good way to mask it and it does
not taste as bad if you mix it

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with chocolate.
Milk.

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But for me, I didn't get the
effective result versus if I

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mixed it with orange juice and
probably because of the citrus.

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And I just found, OK, I don't
like the taste, I'm gonna put a

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bunch of orange juice in, but it
works best if I use that.

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And it's really such an
individualized thing.

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You gotta find what works for
you.

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Yeah, some people like the
powder, some people like

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capsules.
There's, you know, some people

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make the tea.
The tea I think is pretty good.

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I've done that before and added
honey.

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And that is more like a matcha
taste to me so that I can do.

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But the straight part can't do
that.

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But yeah, so everyone figures
out, you know, what's best for

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them.
He can do both.

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He usually does capsules just
because it's easier, like on the

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go to take them and not measure
and mix and all that stuff.

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So it's definitely a personal
preference for people for sure.

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Absolutely.
So when was this?

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When y'all discovered it?
What year was that?

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2014 is when we first found out
about it.

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We started taking it, like I
said, and it was amazing.

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So we started telling our
friends and they noticed a

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difference there.
Like how come you're not so

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tired anymore and how come you
have more energy than I do?

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And you know, so we're like,
take this stuff and everyone's

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like, oh, I don't know if I
could drink that.

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And there's people that did and
then tried capsules too, and it

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worked for them and they were
really amazed that it worked.

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And a lot of people back then
really didn't know what it was.

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It wasn't as popular as it is
now, so they had to be educated

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on it.
But I was amazed by it and it

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really was helping me.
I could do more with my kids,

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which was really important to
me, and I just wanted people to

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know about it.
So I started bringing extra into

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my work for my workers and they
would take it too.

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And they're like, this is great.
So more and more people found

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out about it and that's when it
grew and people kept asking me

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to order it for them.
So that's how it kind of turned

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into a business eventually,
yeah.

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What's so interesting you, you,
Sarah, you and your husband are

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so much like other kratom
companies I've gotten to know in

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the industry where first it was
I discovered this amazing plan.

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It worked so well for me.
So they became a kratom consumer

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and then they wanted to help
others and they became a big

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advocate to help spread the
message and, and make bring

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awareness.
And then through that, it's

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like, you know what, I'm gonna
do this as a business so I can

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help change the world because I,
you know, I'm trying to help

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people.
Or like in y'all's case, where

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people are like do this as a
business so I can just always

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get it from you because you were
already doing that.

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I love that.
So that's just so cool.

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So y'all discovered in 2014.
That's a long time ago.

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And I, I know there wasn't a lot
of information back then.

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Like there is.
Wow.

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And also kratom packaging back
then was so different.

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You know, I started in 2019,
which was years after y'all

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started.
And when I first started, you

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know, some of the packages would
be just a plastic bag with a

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Sharpie name of what you're
getting.

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It was that, nothing else.
I mean, what was that like when

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y'all first was?
Was the packaging OK or sketchy?

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Our packaging was good.
We wanted to have better

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packaging than what we're seeing
out there.

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We didn't want to do the plastic
baggy.

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So we actually had better
packaging.

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Our packaging now is way better,
but it wasn't the printed bags.

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But we had the nicer bags with
the label printed on there and

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the information on it, so people
knew more about it and it wasn't

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just written on like green mang,
duh.

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So they actually had a little
bit more information to go off

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of on ours.
So that's how we started with

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that.
And eventually it got big enough

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where I had to leave my job.
And I liked doing that better

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because I was actually helping
people where I was working.

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It was just a job, you know,
where they could easily replace

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people and it didn't really mean
anything to me personally.

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So this actually meant a lot to
me.

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And that's when I started my
women's support group online.

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Back then too, there was there
was a couple of like groups for

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kratom, but not very many.
And a lot of people still didn't

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understand what it was.
And there wasn't any groups

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really for women.
And I noticed that a lot of the

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women were quiet and kind of
uncomfortable to speak in those

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groups with the men.
So I decided to make a woman's

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only kratom support group and
actually got really big.

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And it was really amazing.
I helped, you know, educate

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women.
We had admins.

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We had a lot of people get
involved in it, a lot of kratom

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advocates.
And it was, it's like a little

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family, kind of like a really
cool community.

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So yeah, I was really that we
made that, yeah.

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I love that.
We'll definitely be talking more

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about that shortly.
But back to like when y'all were

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first starting and, and, and you
know, when I was talking about

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like the plastic bags and
sketchiness is like the people

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that you know, before y'all did
it as a business when you're

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actually buying it from these
places, was it like, you know,

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this could be done better?
And that's like another reason

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for y'all to go into business
like this.

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This some of this is a little
sketchy and better done better

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so it, you know, the consumers
understand what they're getting.

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Yeah, we were basically getting
kilos.

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They were vacuum sealed just in
plastic with like written on it,

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like you said.
And it was a little weird.

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And I, I wasn't crazy about it.
So we kept looking more into it

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and into the packaging and into
the suppliers who actually had

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kratom.
And then we found a guy in

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Indonesia who actually worked
with a farm.

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And then we started talking with
him and he cared more about the

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quality of it.
And I think that's really

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important.
So we started ordering from him

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exclusively just because it was
better quality and we knew how

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it was being grown, where it was
coming from, what was in the

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soil.
And that was really important to

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me from just getting it in a bag
from somewhere that I wasn't so

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sure of, I guess.
And that's how we started our

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relationship with who we still
work with now, our supplier.

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So we work directly with him.
But I really wanted to know what

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00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:24,040
I was getting and how it was
processed, which is I think

226
00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,440
really important.
Absolutely.

227
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:30,120
And then if you're, you know
selling it to customers, like

228
00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:32,560
you're very aware of every
aspect of it.

229
00:12:32,560 --> 00:12:35,640
Whereas I'm sure there's some
companies out there where they

230
00:12:35,920 --> 00:12:39,160
just find somebody in Indonesia,
buy it in bulk and then turn

231
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,720
around and sell it and they
don't necessarily have all those

232
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:44,200
details.
And I think that kind of thing

233
00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,600
is very important in the
industry, especially now in

234
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,280
2025.
I think transparency is so

235
00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,960
important.
Going back to like when y'all

236
00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:55,680
first discovered in 2014.
Well, first of all, when did

237
00:12:55,680 --> 00:12:58,640
y'all turn this into a business?
Y'all started in 2014 as

238
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:01,320
consumers.
What year did y'all turn it into

239
00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:05,440
a business?
It was late 2015, so like a year

240
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,240
later, pretty much after we
discovered it and after I

241
00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,480
started talking to people about
it and everything and being more

242
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,720
involved with it, that's when we
decided to make it into a

243
00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,000
business because there was other
companies out there, but not as

244
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,120
many family business companies.
And we were a smaller company

245
00:13:23,120 --> 00:13:28,840
that was more concerned about
the quality and the people in

246
00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:32,560
Indonesia, the people that we
work with, we were helping them

247
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:35,000
as well.
And it's really cool to know the

248
00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,360
people that you're helping and
have a relationship with them.

249
00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,000
So that was really important to
me as well, so.

250
00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:43,560
Yeah, and I'll make sure there's
a link in the show notes for

251
00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:47,000
your company, Metrospect Kratom,
in case anybody's like, wow,

252
00:13:47,000 --> 00:13:48,720
this all sounds good.
I want to check them out.

253
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:52,240
And so back to when y'all
discovered it in 2014.

254
00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:54,680
What was it about y'all's
research on Google that made

255
00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:56,600
y'all go we got to try this
stuff.

256
00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,960
Basically it was, it's saying
that it was used for centuries

257
00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,840
in Indonesia and people used it
either as a tea or they would

258
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,960
chew on the leaves and it was
something that helped with pain

259
00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:12,480
relief and mood.
And we're like, that sounds

260
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,120
pretty awesome.
And it's natural.

261
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,400
It's a natural plant which we
wanted a natural supplement.

262
00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,840
We don't want anything that was
chemical or made in a lab.

263
00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,520
We wanted a plant based
supplement.

264
00:14:23,520 --> 00:14:26,560
So we thought that would be
perfect for what we were looking

265
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:29,840
for personally, so.
Yeah, yeah, that's.

266
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,600
I'm so glad y'all found it.
I mean, I, I, I it's interesting

267
00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,720
how all of us found kratom in
our own interesting way.

268
00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:37,680
For me it was the documentary A
Leap of Faith.

269
00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,640
Yeah, there's that too.
Yeah, yeah.

270
00:14:40,640 --> 00:14:44,240
Which is great, Yeah.
Popped up into my Netflix and it

271
00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:46,360
went back when it was on.
You know, it's on YouTube now.

272
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:47,600
I'll put the link in the show
notes.

273
00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:52,600
But back in 2019, it was playing
on Netflix, and it sounded

274
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,720
interesting.
And it was right when I was

275
00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,840
losing access to my pain meds
through pain management.

276
00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:02,760
And I was looking like for what
I was going to do next while

277
00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:04,320
thinking, do I have to go get a
drug dealer?

278
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:06,400
Which is so ridiculous, you
know, when you live in chronic

279
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:07,440
pain.
You.

280
00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,240
Know for many of us, we got to
have something and we shouldn't

281
00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,880
have to go to the streets, you
know, And that documentary for

282
00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:17,320
me was life changing because
it's like, wait a minute,

283
00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:21,240
there's a plant that could help
with my chronic pain and make me

284
00:15:21,240 --> 00:15:23,240
just feel better and overall
well-being.

285
00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:25,200
I just remember thinking,
there's no way.

286
00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:30,240
There's no way, but I was like,
I'm gonna try it, I'm gonna try.

287
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,040
It a lot of people say that too.
They're like no and I'm like try

288
00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:35,560
it and then when they do they're
like, oh, you were serious.

289
00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:39,080
It really does work and it's
really great and people are

290
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,360
usually surprised by that too.
I was personally, when I first

291
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,520
tried, I'm like, I don't know,
this tastes really weird and you

292
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:49,400
know, but it really does work
and it really is an amazing

293
00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:51,440
plant.
But that documentary was

294
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,640
something I always would send to
people as well.

295
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,720
And it's great for education,
for people that have no idea

296
00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:58,320
what.
They did a great job of

297
00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:00,680
explaining it.
So I was really happy when that

298
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:01,920
came out.
That was great.

299
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440
It it was very well done and it
was very well-rounded.

300
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:10,240
It wasn't like just pro kratom
and no anti like they they were

301
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,920
the film maker did a great job
showing, you know, just all

302
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,240
aspects of it and really
educating us on the plan, how it

303
00:16:16,240 --> 00:16:21,280
came to be, where it's from and
the research that's was done and

304
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,920
the future research like where
they were going with it.

305
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:28,080
And I I'm just so glad that came
out and the timing with it was

306
00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:32,560
was so great.
And that means then that you

307
00:16:32,560 --> 00:16:35,880
guys were already a kratom
business when the whole 2016

308
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:40,280
thing happened where the DEA
tried to schedule it, giving 30

309
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:44,360
days public notice and like,
we're scheduling this and huge

310
00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,720
public outcry.
So as a new business.

311
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:50,600
We are freaking out.
I I bet because like at that

312
00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:54,160
point it it would what, barely a
year because you said end of

313
00:16:54,200 --> 00:16:57,040
2015.
It was barely a year and we

314
00:16:57,040 --> 00:16:59,680
actually had a big shipment
coming in and it was seized.

315
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,520
They seized our shipment.
Yep.

316
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,800
And we lost it all the money.
Obviously we're not getting that

317
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:06,480
back.
And we were really freaking out.

318
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:08,079
We're like, how are we going to
continue?

319
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,560
We ended up making it.
We got together with some other

320
00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:16,960
smaller companies and we started
working together and they found

321
00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:21,079
a way to get it and to like get
it shipped basically.

322
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,280
And then we finally got kratom
and then we made it.

323
00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:28,920
But it was, it was really hard.
A lot of us got it seized a lot

324
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,960
of us.
I wasn't the only one and a lot

325
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:34,280
of us were pretty scared.
So the community is really

326
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:37,480
strong and everyone is really
good with helping each other.

327
00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,680
So the community really came
together when this was

328
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:42,920
happening.
So that's one thing, when things

329
00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:46,960
happen in this community, the
people always come together and

330
00:17:47,040 --> 00:17:50,960
they work it out and we always
make it happen where we can

331
00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,440
still have access to this plant,
which is really amazing.

332
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:58,080
It's wild how that all played
out.

333
00:17:58,080 --> 00:18:02,360
You know, this 30 day notice,
we're banning it, making it

334
00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:06,400
schedule one, which means, you
know, if you have this is as if

335
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:12,040
you have fentanyl or heroin can
go to prison, is banned

336
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:14,640
everywhere.
And with schedule one, they can

337
00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:18,160
do research on it, which would
have been really bad.

338
00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:22,480
And so thank goodness it was a
huge outcry of support in the

339
00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:24,680
community.
And the whole Joe Rogan thing.

340
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:26,800
It's all in the documentary.
People don't know about this.

341
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:29,360
Watch a leap of faith because
it's all in there.

342
00:18:29,960 --> 00:18:34,040
It's pretty amazing to see that
community support and making it

343
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:38,480
so that the DEA reconsidered.
Yeah, And the AKA is really good

344
00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:40,760
with fighting these battles,
too.

345
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,480
They're great.
They're great advocates.

346
00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:46,040
I support them.
And they were great with, you

347
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,080
know, helping make it so it
wasn't scheduled, too.

348
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,880
They do a lot for, you know,
helping with the laws and people

349
00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,440
trying to ban it.
And I'm really appreciative for

350
00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,440
that.
And they're a great resource for

351
00:18:57,440 --> 00:18:59,640
people too, for educational
purposes.

352
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,560
Yeah, I'll link to them as well.
American KREM Association.

353
00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,760
So that's the consumer advocacy
and lobbying group.

354
00:19:06,760 --> 00:19:11,400
And boy, I, I luckily discovered
them early on in my kratom

355
00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:13,360
journey and signed up for their
newsletter.

356
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,120
So all these years you have been
6 1/2 years as a KREM consumer

357
00:19:17,120 --> 00:19:20,680
and getting all those emails and
being made aware of all these

358
00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,560
potential ban bills that crop up
all the time.

359
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:28,320
And just knowing what's
happening so that we can send in

360
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,560
an e-mail and share our support
for, you know, what we believe

361
00:19:31,560 --> 00:19:34,800
in and share our testimony is so
important.

362
00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,800
And I think more people that
consume creative need to know

363
00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:41,200
about that resource to support.
I mean, it's great if you can

364
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,720
donate to them.
You don't have to, but at

365
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,800
minimum get on their newsletter.
So I'll link to that, get on the

366
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,040
newsletter, Share your story so
that we can help keep it safe

367
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,120
and legal.
Yeah, absolutely.

368
00:19:53,120 --> 00:19:56,520
It's great.
I I'm really appreciate it for

369
00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,560
them as well.
And whenever I see that a band

370
00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:01,400
is going to go on, I always post
it too.

371
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,160
And I always share it with
everyone that I know, especially

372
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:06,640
people that are in those states.
It's really important to know

373
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:10,000
what's going on in your state
and it's important to get

374
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,480
involved and at least, you know,
sign the document saying that

375
00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:15,640
you support kratom.
It's really important.

376
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:18,560
So yeah.
Absolutely reach out to your

377
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:21,200
lawmakers and let your voice be
heard.

378
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:26,080
So y'all discover kratom.
It's it's amazing for you all.

379
00:20:26,280 --> 00:20:31,360
So tell us about like what did
y'all know that like like how is

380
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:34,120
this affecting your day-to-day
life, your overall well-being?

381
00:20:34,120 --> 00:20:36,320
Like just tell us more about
like how that all was.

382
00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:41,600
It affected it amazing.
I didn't need so much coffee

383
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,120
caffeine.
It gave me the energy that I

384
00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:46,680
needed.
I tend to like the greens, like

385
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:51,840
the more energetic strains
personally, but I wasn't sore.

386
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:54,840
I would get like sore,
especially from my job or just,

387
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,920
you know, we also had a farm in
Texas.

388
00:20:57,920 --> 00:21:01,440
We had alpacas, we had goats, we
had llamas.

389
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:05,520
So I was like out there chickens
doing that too.

390
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:09,240
And that's a lot of work too.
So that helped with taking care

391
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:12,800
of the animals and just giving
me more energy.

392
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,200
I was in a better mood.
I also have really bad anxiety.

393
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:19,760
I'm actually a really shy
person, so that's why I don't do

394
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:24,080
these very often.
But it really helped me with my

395
00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:25,760
mood too.
And it helped me with my

396
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,600
anxiety.
And I was amazed how much it

397
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,960
helps better than pharmaceutical
meds did for me.

398
00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:34,920
When I took them for anxiety
before, it kind of made me like

399
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,640
a zombie.
I was kind of like numb, you

400
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,480
know, it helped mask it, but it
didn't really help, you know,

401
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,480
make me feel better.
But with creatine, it actually

402
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:49,240
helps.
So yeah, I'm very thankful that

403
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:51,560
I found that it's much better
for me personally.

404
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,000
So yeah.
I'm always amazed at how many

405
00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,560
people I talked to on this
podcast tell me about how they

406
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,840
were able to stop different
pharmaceuticals.

407
00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:02,560
I even had a lady on recently
that was able to stop 26 meds.

408
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:07,160
It's like that amazing, you know
that that to have all these

409
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,000
different medications that you
realize you don't need any more.

410
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:12,560
Right, yes.
And it helps.

411
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:14,880
Oh, sorry.
Oh, go ahead.

412
00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:17,800
But it helps with so many
different people, like you said,

413
00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,560
for different things and you
wouldn't even think of all the

414
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,640
things that helps.
It helps with many different

415
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,960
things, for sure.
My grandmother had cancer.

416
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:30,760
She eventually passed away from
it, but she was actually using

417
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:34,280
kratom that I sent to her rather
than the meds because she said

418
00:22:34,280 --> 00:22:37,360
that the kratom actually helped
her more with the pain.

419
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:42,120
So I was really grateful to at
least give her relief when she

420
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,400
was battling the cancer.
And that was really important to

421
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,280
me too.
So it really does make a

422
00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:50,520
difference in people's lives and
a big, big difference.

423
00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:53,400
So yeah.
Yeah, absolutely.

424
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:55,040
It.
It's just always cool hearing

425
00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:57,720
all these different stories,
especially when somebody says I

426
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,360
started kratom for this specific
thing, whether is battling

427
00:23:01,360 --> 00:23:04,680
addiction or or suffering from
chronic pain or using it

428
00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:07,200
specifically for the ADHD or
anxiety.

429
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,400
But then they realized like, oh,
but it helps me with this other

430
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,960
thing too, or that or like a
whole as a whole Symphony.

431
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:16,000
I like the word something
because Doctor Chris McCurdy,

432
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:18,880
leading kratom expert, always
calls that the plant as you

433
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:21,160
know, Symphony of alkaloids
because the way it worked, the

434
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:24,040
alkaloid work.
And it's almost like for many of

435
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:27,640
us it's a Symphony of things.
It helps in our life just from

436
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,840
consuming a plant.
Exactly, and everyone's

437
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,360
different too with what they
like and what works for them

438
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,640
too.
And even I know people some are

439
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,560
opposites like red.
Get some people energized and

440
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,760
for me it makes me like relaxed
and green makes me energized,

441
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,800
but for some people it makes
them sleepy.

442
00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,960
So it's a personal preference
and everyone's body is different

443
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,800
and that's really amazing how it
works differently for people and

444
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,240
everyone has like a personal
preference.

445
00:23:57,040 --> 00:23:59,520
Yeah, it's interesting.
I find it interesting.

446
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:01,440
However, body is affected
differently.

447
00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:02,800
And just like what you're
saying, some people are

448
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,200
opposite.
And when I used to hear about

449
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,880
that, it seemed like it was a
pretty small percentage of

450
00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,200
people, like maybe 20% or
something.

451
00:24:10,360 --> 00:24:12,960
Just from my observation,
talking to so many people for,

452
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:16,760
for many, many years now.
But I've seen it more and more

453
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,840
as people being like social
media comments saying Reds give

454
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,360
me energy and, and white makes
me sleepy.

455
00:24:23,360 --> 00:24:26,280
I'm like, I think there's a lot
more people that are opposites

456
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:29,640
and it's just, but you being in
the industry and you're always

457
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,600
talking to people, to customers
and people interested, I imagine

458
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,520
you really get a good picture of
like how diverse people are with

459
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,200
this plant.
Yeah, it's really diverse and

460
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,240
some people stick to certain,
like Reds, they like Reds,

461
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,200
they'll use different ones or
they'll use blends with Reds,

462
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:49,720
but they stick to that certain.
I'm like that too.

463
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:52,360
I stick to green.
I do blends with green.

464
00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:56,160
I take Reds sometimes to relax,
but I'm mainly like a green

465
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:59,720
person because I feel that works
the best for my body.

466
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,320
So it is really interesting.
We have different people that

467
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,840
we've heard from that like to
make their own blends and they

468
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,000
mix something and it works
perfect for them.

469
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,880
So it's really cool that people
can kind of come up with their

470
00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:20,040
own, you know, kind of, I guess
how to say it, concoction of

471
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,000
what works best for them, which
is really cool.

472
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,000
So yeah.
Yeah, 'cause I always tell

473
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:26,680
people when they're new and
they're always at so many times

474
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:28,360
people go, oh, I have what you
have.

475
00:25:28,360 --> 00:25:30,960
I have degenerative disease.
Just tell me what to buy.

476
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:33,480
What kind do you use?
I, you know, and I'm like, it's

477
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:36,400
not really like that.
It's very individualized.

478
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,400
You have to try.
And when I started, I just got

479
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:44,240
all three colors and tried each
one to see like what works and

480
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:48,200
what doesn't.
And for me, I noticed quickly

481
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,240
that the Reds did not help my
pain at all.

482
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,080
They didn't relax me.
I thought it was odd.

483
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:54,640
I just didn't get much of
anything.

484
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:56,360
And the white was way too
energetic.

485
00:25:56,360 --> 00:25:58,880
I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no.
It was no good for me.

486
00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:01,160
And then and I would try
multiple times.

487
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,840
It wasn't like just a once and
done like I, I was like, let me

488
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:07,760
keep trying like.
But then the green was like, of

489
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,040
course I saved green from I
don't know why I did green last.

490
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:14,320
And greens were like, oh, I'm
feeling something with this.

491
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:17,480
I'm feeling less pain, I'm
getting a little bit of energy

492
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,640
boost like coffee.
I'm like, OK, so and then I was

493
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,200
on this mission to just try
different types of greens.

494
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,800
And it is interesting to see
like what works for you.

495
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,240
And I always tell people keep a
dose journal because it helps in

496
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,840
the beginning as you're starting
to like kind of figure out what

497
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,480
works and what doesn't.
And that was so instrumental for

498
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,040
me in in, in my journey in the
beginning of it.

499
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:43,800
Yeah, that's really important.
I did that as well.

500
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,680
I heard a journal.
I always tell people that are

501
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,040
new to keep notes, even if it's
not a journal, just write it

502
00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:50,960
down.
And that's really, really

503
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:53,000
useful.
It's confusing when you're new

504
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,680
to it because there's a lot of
information out there and

505
00:26:55,680 --> 00:26:57,400
there's a lot of different
types.

506
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,120
And I know it's overwhelming for
a lot of people.

507
00:27:00,360 --> 00:27:03,840
So it's best to start with, you
know, simple and then figuring

508
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,720
out what works best for you and
just like build from that.

509
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:10,280
So I tell a lot of people that
and like you said, to start with

510
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:16,400
white, red and green and then
see which one works better for

511
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,040
what you need for sure.
Yeah, because if you start

512
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,600
blending them up, I think it's
best to know which ones work on

513
00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:27,040
you.
And it has to do with like the

514
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:32,800
drying process and the, the MIT
percentage and, and I just found

515
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,000
that the higher MIT I do better
with the mitragynine.

516
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,640
And I think that's why the
greens especially like super

517
00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,560
greens work really well on me.
And I always noticed they have

518
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,480
the higher MIT.
And I'm on a quest to find a red

519
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:49,520
that will do something for me.
And I've yet to find I I but I

520
00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:54,520
have tried one that is it's a
higher MIT for red and I think

521
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:58,240
that's why, but I don't know.
I there's still a lot of this.

522
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,400
Well, what does it really mean?
Kratom is kratom and I know

523
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,320
there's, there's some
controversy with is always be

524
00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:09,640
strange or a marketing thing and
that some of these locations

525
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:13,200
that that people put on a kratom
package, Kratom's not even grown

526
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:14,840
there.
And I don't know.

527
00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:16,320
Do you do you want to?
I mean, you don't have to, but

528
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:17,960
if you want to share your take
on it, because it's always

529
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,120
interesting how vendors you know
what their thought is on it.

530
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,960
Yeah, I get that.
For us, we do make our own

531
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:28,200
blends and they have different
names.

532
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,240
I know a lot of vendors do that
just because to have your own

533
00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:36,120
like, I guess signature blend
that separates you from all the

534
00:28:36,120 --> 00:28:37,760
other people out there, there's
a lot.

535
00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,800
So a lot of people do that.
That's why we do it honestly.

536
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:47,280
And we make our own based on our
customers feedback to us and we

537
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,840
try to make it more customized
for them.

538
00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:53,000
And that's why we came up with
the blends we came up with as

539
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,280
far as the different, you know,
ballet and then there's green

540
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:01,760
Mangda and then there's Vietnam.
There's all those different

541
00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:04,800
names.
Mangda just means like high

542
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,320
grade, like they call it pip
grade, like highest grade.

543
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:12,360
Yeah, it doesn't mean where it's
grown, but what's important

544
00:29:12,360 --> 00:29:15,440
about it being grown is how it's
grown, the soil that it's grown

545
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:18,680
in, if they're using pesticides.
And it's really important to

546
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:23,560
know where it's coming from.
And basically the other name of

547
00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:25,560
it comes from the drying process
too.

548
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,880
So, you know, like the yellows
aren't really, you know, a

549
00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:33,320
yellow, it's just leaving the
leaves in the sun longer or the

550
00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:36,840
drying process with the greens
and the drying process with the

551
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:39,600
Reds.
And different farms process it

552
00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,640
differently.
They dry it in different ways.

553
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,760
So that what that's what makes a
difference between the powder

554
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:48,360
with different people.
So everyone's going to be a

555
00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:52,280
little bit different depending
on where they get their kratom

556
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:55,520
from.
Yeah, it's good to experiment to

557
00:29:55,520 --> 00:29:58,000
see what works for you, because
that's a good point.

558
00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,280
Every vendor is different and
you know, you got the drying

559
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,840
process and you got the
individual colors, you got the

560
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,400
blends.
And I think blends are great

561
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,240
once you know what works for
you.

562
00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:12,040
Because if you're new and you're
starting with the blend, it

563
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,040
could be, well, if it has some
white in it or has some red in

564
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,840
it and that doesn't work with
you, then the whole thing is

565
00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:22,440
probably not working for you.
And it's like figuring out like

566
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,960
what what specifically works on
you.

567
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,640
It's an interesting plan.
I mean, it's not a simple thing

568
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,240
to when people are new and
trying to explain.

569
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,840
There's just so many little
things about it.

570
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,560
That's why I started, you know,
my Kratom real talk community

571
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:41,400
over on the school platform I
started so we could have a place

572
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,800
to talk about kratom where
there's no censorship because

573
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:47,400
that to me is very important.
But I love it and it's all free.

574
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,280
So I'll make sure it's LinkedIn
here, but the classroom section

575
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,280
is where I can put so much
educational information and I've

576
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,880
really built it out in these
last two years.

577
00:30:56,880 --> 00:30:59,120
And it's like I've really
designed it to be a perfect

578
00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,240
place for anybody brand new
that's researching to just go in

579
00:31:02,240 --> 00:31:05,080
there and go look through all
the info and they'll get the

580
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:10,000
whole big that is not just go by
these capsules and you're and

581
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,160
you're going to be instantly
helped.

582
00:31:12,560 --> 00:31:17,040
It's like you might, but it
might depend on which color and

583
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,080
and where you're buying it.
You know, if you buy from a

584
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,680
smoke shop, it might not be
great quality versus an online

585
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,480
vendor like yourself who
typically have the higher

586
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:28,760
quality.
You know it's third party lab

587
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,720
tested, like you know you're
getting a good product.

588
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:37,560
Right, exactly that.
That's a big difference between

589
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:41,280
just buying it off the shelf and
the person even selling it to

590
00:31:41,280 --> 00:31:43,520
you usually doesn't know too
much about it either.

591
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:47,360
When we get a lot of new
customers, we put in a little

592
00:31:47,360 --> 00:31:51,720
brochure, a guide that actually
guides them through about the

593
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:55,160
plant, about the different
colors, about dosing, measuring,

594
00:31:55,160 --> 00:31:57,520
because a lot of people don't
know much about that.

595
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,200
And also your platform is great
for that too.

596
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:03,920
They have a lot of information
on there and it's a lot of good,

597
00:32:03,920 --> 00:32:07,400
solid information because if you
go to other places, sometimes

598
00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:10,720
it's kind of mixed and some
information's good and some's

599
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,960
not so good.
So it's really good to go to a

600
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,000
source like yours where you have
the right information,

601
00:32:16,000 --> 00:32:19,600
especially for new people.
Yeah, it's just trying to

602
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,240
educate.
I, I love that you're like me.

603
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,880
We're just trying to educate
people and help people that are

604
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:28,080
new to just get good, helpful
information.

605
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,840
You know, because there is a lot
of misinformation, online,

606
00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,480
propaganda.
It's crazy how much stuff is out

607
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,000
there that is completely
incorrect.

608
00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:42,720
Yeah, it's really hard to say
that information on Facebook or

609
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,560
on other platforms because I get
banned.

610
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:47,160
I know you, you know what I
mean.

611
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:50,400
My page will get shut down.
I've had groups shut down, and

612
00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:54,120
your platform is a safe place
where we can actually spell it

613
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,440
out and we can say, you know,
the correct information.

614
00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:00,520
That's really important.
So I'm really thankful for that

615
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:03,920
platform for sure, because I've
had all my information just

616
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:06,920
erased, you know, just because
they had an issue with it.

617
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,400
So yeah.
Yeah, Facebook really has been

618
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:12,840
terrible.
I mean, they deleted all kratom

619
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:16,800
pages, profiles, groups in the
past year.

620
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:20,120
My Krame Stories podcast
Facebook page got removed.

621
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,840
It's just a real shame because
so many people use Facebook to

622
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:28,040
connect with people to get
information, to be part of a

623
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:31,320
community and to not be able to
talk about kratom.

624
00:33:31,320 --> 00:33:34,920
It's just is is terrible and and
it's it's spread all over.

625
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,840
I mean TikTok is terrible.
By the time this episode comes

626
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:39,960
out, my TikTok will probably be
deleted.

627
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:43,400
I've already I've I've already
been threatened today by TikTok.

628
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,440
They put AI don't think the
public sees it.

629
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,600
But when I go to my profile,
under my picture, there's this

630
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:53,600
big red sentence that says ban
warning cause and they gave me

631
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:55,400
some, they gave me harsh
warnings.

632
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,840
I felt like I was at school
being like, all right, Madeline,

633
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,320
It's really a shame, but.
I got that too with Facebook.

634
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,280
And then the I've got put in
Facebook jail where I couldn't

635
00:34:06,280 --> 00:34:09,760
use it for like a month.
I had groups get shut down.

636
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:12,280
I got a couple of them back.
My women's group actually has

637
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,159
been around for seven years.
So we actually have been good.

638
00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:18,480
Yeah.
So we had to change the name a

639
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,040
little bit and keep it kind of,
you know, buttoned up so we

640
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:24,880
don't get in trouble.
But at least we still have that

641
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,440
group of people together.
I'm trying to tell other people

642
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,199
to go to platforms like yours
though, where it's safer and

643
00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:34,080
they don't have to worry about
being censored and they can

644
00:34:34,080 --> 00:34:37,400
actually say what they feel and
ask questions they want to ask

645
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,080
and no one's it's going to judge
them for that, and that's really

646
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,440
important.
Oh, it's 100%.

647
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:44,520
And I appreciate you letting
people in your community know

648
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:46,960
because I've seen that they've
been coming because it's been

649
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,000
letting me know that they were
referred over by you.

650
00:34:49,159 --> 00:34:53,920
And I love that we can have a
place where we can talk freely.

651
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,000
There's no judgement.
Like you were saying, it's

652
00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,480
private, so whatever's posted is
the public can't see it, only

653
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:03,320
people that join.
I think it's so incredibly

654
00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,760
important and more people need
to know that there are platforms

655
00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:08,440
like this.
I wish more people in our

656
00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:11,640
community would build things
like this, but social media is

657
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,880
just.
There's so much censorship and

658
00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:16,480
misinformation and people are
being misguided.

659
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,080
We need a place like this to
have these really important

660
00:35:21,080 --> 00:35:23,080
conversations.
And I want to talk have you talk

661
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:25,040
more about your women's group
because I think that's really

662
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,200
cool that you put together a
women's group specifically for

663
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,000
kratom consumers.
So let's talk about that.

664
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,320
Like when, when did you start
that and how did that come

665
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,360
together?
Well, Facebook said it's seven

666
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,720
years old, so about 7-8 years
ago is when it started.

667
00:35:41,240 --> 00:35:44,200
That's back when there were a
couple of Facebook kratom

668
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,640
groups, but not very many.
That's when it was still not as

669
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,440
popular back then.
And what I noticed with the

670
00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:55,280
other groups is that they're,
they weren't as I guess,

671
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,800
supportive in some of them and
there was some drama, but I

672
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,000
wanted to make mine drama
judgment free.

673
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,960
And I noticed a lot of the women
felt uncomfortable, like talking

674
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,000
in there, especially if it was a
woman subject.

675
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,560
I get it.
They didn't want to say it in a

676
00:36:10,560 --> 00:36:14,320
group with men like I get it.
So I, I was like, I think they

677
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,360
need their own separate group.
So me and a couple of my friends

678
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:23,080
who are also advocates made the
group together and it started

679
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,920
small and then we got up to like
6000 and got really big.

680
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:29,920
We got in trouble a couple of
times.

681
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,800
We had the group like suspended.
We actually got it back up.

682
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,040
We had to change the name a
couple of times and we had a

683
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:39,960
backup group, but we were able
to keep it.

684
00:36:39,960 --> 00:36:42,280
And we still have all those
people in there.

685
00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:44,960
And it's really, really cool
because it's a really tight

686
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,760
community and we all know each
other because we've known each

687
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:50,840
other for years.
So we all became really good

688
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:53,640
friends too in that community.
So it's really cool.

689
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:57,600
That is so awesome.
I I love that you saw a need and

690
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:00,880
you filled it, you know, and
that that's incredible and is

691
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:04,840
and Facebook was very helpful to
me when I first found kratom

692
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,760
through the documentary A Leap
of faith, I went on looking.

693
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,520
I figured there were some
Facebook groups about kratom

694
00:37:10,880 --> 00:37:13,080
because I did a bunch of
research before I started.

695
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,160
And I always recommend people do
your own research gathers much

696
00:37:16,160 --> 00:37:18,680
information.
Don't just consume something you

697
00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:22,600
have no idea what it is.
And I found some Facebook groups

698
00:37:22,720 --> 00:37:26,720
and it was really helpful to me.
And it and it was at a time, I

699
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:29,640
remember in 2019, people were
having to say the word tea

700
00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:32,200
instead of kratom and be very
careful.

701
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:34,920
Yeah, you had to be real careful
how you framed it.

702
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:38,880
But even even with all of that,
it was incredibly helpful to me.

703
00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:42,160
And I remember a big one I was
in did get shut down at one

704
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,680
point.
And I'm like, no, I'm new to

705
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,120
like I literally had just
started.

706
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:49,880
I think maybe I was a few months
in and I was like, Oh my God.

707
00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,800
But like I'm learning so much
from this group.

708
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,560
So it's just a reminder that
these social media platforms,

709
00:37:57,560 --> 00:37:59,440
they can do whatever they want.
We're on rent.

710
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,000
And that's why a platform like
school that I'm utilizing for

711
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,200
Kratom, Real talk is so helpful
because I'm the, I pay for it.

712
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:09,520
It's free for people to join,
but I pay every month.

713
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:10,680
I've been doing it for two
years.

714
00:38:10,960 --> 00:38:15,840
For me, it's worth it to pay to
to be able to offer this because

715
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:19,160
I get to control it.
No, nobody can cut a tech bro.

716
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,320
Can't say sorry, you can't say
the word kratom.

717
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,760
It's like, no, we're not going
down that road.

718
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,720
So I even you know, to show you
like how far I took this before

719
00:38:28,720 --> 00:38:31,880
I started.
It was actually a funny story.

720
00:38:31,880 --> 00:38:35,480
It was my first TikTok account.
It got out of the blue, deleted

721
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:38,080
one day like TikTok, just no
warnings.

722
00:38:38,080 --> 00:38:40,560
No, I never got a strike on the
nothing.

723
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,800
And then one day it was gone.
I was about to post a video, the

724
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,040
account's gone.
So they did, they deleted it.

725
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:48,080
And they have the right to, you
know, they own it.

726
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,840
So I was so mad.
So I'm like, OK, I'm going to

727
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:53,200
set up a new TikTok.
Of course.

728
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:54,240
I mean, that's not going to stop
me.

729
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:55,960
Nothing's going to stop me from
advocating.

730
00:38:56,840 --> 00:38:59,200
And I already have been using
school for other stuff.

731
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:03,160
And I'm like, I'm going to start
a school for us, call it kratom,

732
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,120
real talk.
So we also have a place to go

733
00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,440
where we're not going to have to
deal with censorship and all

734
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,120
this nonsense.
And I can help educate people on

735
00:39:10,120 --> 00:39:14,080
a broader scale.
And so in that same day, the day

736
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:18,440
they deleted my account, TikTok,
I went to school and I contacted

737
00:39:18,440 --> 00:39:21,400
them and they were a much
smaller company at the time.

738
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:25,320
And I reached out and I said I
want to set up a community.

739
00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:27,400
It's a touchy subject called
kratom.

740
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,200
I got the e-mail somewhere.
I have to go find it.

741
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:31,880
And I gave them all the info
because I went through the

742
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:34,200
community guidelines.
I'm like, well, sometimes it's

743
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:35,560
hard to tell in community
guidelines.

744
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:37,480
Is it something you could do or
not?

745
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,400
I saw just reach out to the
source and ask.

746
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,760
The worst will say is no, you
can't talk about that here.

747
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:44,920
And then I'm not going to waste
my time and spend my money

748
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:48,680
setting it up.
And I just gave them the info

749
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,600
and they came back very quickly
on a Sunday.

750
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,600
I was so impressed and said
yeah, you can do it.

751
00:39:56,320 --> 00:39:58,520
I'm like.
That's awesome, So.

752
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:03,880
I set it up and got me a new
TikTok and off to the races.

753
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:06,360
Like OK, social media is still
good.

754
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:08,960
I teach social media to people,
to business owners.

755
00:40:08,960 --> 00:40:11,560
But.
Your own platform that you

756
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:16,120
control is is a great thing to
have, and I think an e-mail list

757
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,600
is always important.
Your own community that you

758
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,840
control.
There's so many little things we

759
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,200
can do to help the big
community.

760
00:40:23,440 --> 00:40:25,960
So I love that we have a place
like that.

761
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,280
I'm glad that you're in there
now.

762
00:40:27,280 --> 00:40:30,480
You've been contributing, Sarah.
Oh my gosh, I love all the stuff

763
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:32,760
you're posting in kratom.
Real talk, you've been sharing

764
00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:34,240
so much valuable.
Information.

765
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:36,240
I love it so much.
That place is awesome.

766
00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:37,920
I can actually spell the word
creative.

767
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:42,200
So I was really excited in that
I could share my knowledge that

768
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,600
I know to other people.
I really like sharing what I

769
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,120
know to people and that's really
fun to me.

770
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,440
It's something I can't really do
on the other platforms at all or

771
00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:53,800
I have to like do code words and
stuff like it's a pain.

772
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:57,920
I've been trying to talk to our
other kratom advocates and I'm

773
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:01,400
trying to get more kratom people
from the other platforms into

774
00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:03,640
yours because it it, it's so
much better.

775
00:41:03,640 --> 00:41:05,560
It really is.
And it's just like the other

776
00:41:05,560 --> 00:41:07,920
platforms.
You can have a profile picture

777
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:11,280
talk in there and there's really
awesome people and that's all

778
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,760
the people that we connect with,
you know, and they're really all

779
00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:18,240
great people.
So I I love that platform.

780
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,520
It's it's been great.
It's been a great place to

781
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:22,040
connect.
It's kind of like a Facebook

782
00:41:22,040 --> 00:41:24,440
group, but better.
I think that you're able to

783
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:26,080
connect.
You can private message other

784
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:29,480
people in the group and you can
also post videos, which was very

785
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,960
important to me because of all
the censorship I've been getting

786
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,560
around other places.
Like I can post things like in

787
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,520
the only place I can post this
kind of video is at my Kratom

788
00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640
Real talk, I have a 7 minute
video walking through step by

789
00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,640
step how to use blade papes and
blade papes that people don't

790
00:41:45,640 --> 00:41:47,920
know.
So little little pouch thing you

791
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:51,560
can put if you don't want to do
the kratom powder, you don't

792
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,280
want to taste it, but you don't
want to do capsules.

793
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:56,320
You put in this little pouch
thing, you dip it in water and

794
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:58,320
you swallow it and it works
great.

795
00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,800
It's a great alternative to
powder or capsules using powder

796
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:05,080
so you don't have to taste it.
But I tried putting some stuff

797
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:07,480
on TikTok and, and they weren't
liking it.

798
00:42:07,480 --> 00:42:10,800
So I'm like, I'm not, I'm making
a step by step.

799
00:42:10,800 --> 00:42:14,400
Just I put the camera on.
I just did my and it's 7 minutes

800
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:16,400
long.
I'm like, here's a place I can

801
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,480
put it where and it's helped so
many people.

802
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,320
I also made a long video of how
I make my swamp water tea in the

803
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:25,920
morning, my kratom, salt, swamp
water, like things like that

804
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,120
help so many people because this
information you can't get

805
00:42:29,120 --> 00:42:31,520
anywhere else because if you put
that up it'll get taken down.

806
00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:34,920
Right, exactly.
I've made videos before and they

807
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,560
have gotten taken down.
I tried for YouTube.

808
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,360
I got one of my YouTube accounts
shut down because of the videos

809
00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:44,400
and it was just videos like that
one was us making capsules.

810
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,000
That one actually is still up
there.

811
00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:50,960
But we had another one of how to
measure kratom I showed with a

812
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:55,400
digital scale and how to measure
it correctly and scooping it and

813
00:42:55,400 --> 00:42:57,160
everything and that got taken
down.

814
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,720
So yeah, it's just weird, the
stuff that they decide to take

815
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:02,920
down, which is ridiculous, but
yeah.

816
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,800
The good news is if you have any
videos you want to put up at

817
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:10,120
kratom real talk, you can put it
up and it's allowed and in

818
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:11,640
school.
It actually makes it a lot

819
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,560
easier to upload videos now and
they just had a new feature this

820
00:43:14,560 --> 00:43:18,280
week for live stream live
streaming inside the platform.

821
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:22,560
So now I can like host some
private we could do some Q and

822
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:23,960
as and stuff.
I definitely have to bring you

823
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,880
on for something like that.
I I'm I'm just so excited with

824
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,040
all the new features they have.
So it is definitely a great

825
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:32,600
place for people.
Come, come, I'll have the link

826
00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,440
in in the description here.
So you do a lot of advocating in

827
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:39,600
the community, which is awesome.
I love that.

828
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:42,040
So tell us a bit about your
advocacy.

829
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:45,280
I mean, you, you, you have your
women's group, you, you do a lot

830
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,000
it.
Have you gone out to speak like

831
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:51,480
with legislators?
Have you done like any other

832
00:43:51,480 --> 00:43:54,000
kind?
I know you do it within your

833
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,720
community, but what kind of
advocacy, other advocacy work

834
00:43:57,080 --> 00:44:00,800
have you done?
I haven't gotten a chance to go

835
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:04,800
to Washington and travel as much
because I have young kids and

836
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:08,520
I'm here working a lot.
I wish I could eventually.

837
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,040
I do want to definitely do that
and I do plan on doing that.

838
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:16,400
I also sponsor female athletes,
professional female athletes,

839
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:20,880
and it shows that professional
people also take kratom because

840
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:25,480
I know there's a stigma with
Kratom and it shows that normal

841
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:29,640
people, everyone takes it from
athletes to your mom to your

842
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,080
grandma.
It's, it makes no difference who

843
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,240
the person is.
And getting it out there,

844
00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:37,720
especially with athletes has
helped a lot because it's shown

845
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:42,080
more people that you can use it
to help and working out and

846
00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:45,560
things like that and other
different areas of just, you

847
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,240
know, from chronic pain, which
is really important too.

848
00:44:48,640 --> 00:44:53,320
So I do a lot with that.
I do write blogs a lot.

849
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,800
I have some on my website.
I have the women's group, and

850
00:44:57,800 --> 00:45:03,520
then I also have X where I put
information on my profile.

851
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,760
X is pretty good.
So I'm pretty good with putting

852
00:45:05,760 --> 00:45:08,440
information and links on there.
So I try with those.

853
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:12,280
I've written a lot of
educational blogs and then I

854
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,240
send those out to people and
then in my emails to my

855
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:19,520
customers, I always put
educational tips and things like

856
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,840
that.
So I try to do as much as I can

857
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,600
with educating people and
letting people know about it and

858
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:29,600
getting it out there further
with, you know, helping others

859
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:31,480
in sponsorships and things like
that.

860
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,920
That's so awesome.
You do a lot and it and it's

861
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:39,320
great because the more we're
able to help people, the better.

862
00:45:39,320 --> 00:45:43,200
This is for the community.
So for those that are watching

863
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,080
this right now or are tuning in,
listening and they don't know

864
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,920
how to get involved with any
advocacy efforts, what would you

865
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:51,520
tell them?
Like how can they get involved?

866
00:45:53,240 --> 00:45:56,280
They can definitely get involved
with the AKA, go to their

867
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:58,920
website, there's a lot of
information on there and just

868
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:02,600
getting involved with what's
going on in their States and

869
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:05,320
what they're trying to do in
different States and just

870
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:08,480
putting the word out, telling
their story I think is honestly

871
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,640
the most important thing like
going on here and just saying

872
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,840
kratom has helped me because of
this.

873
00:46:14,120 --> 00:46:17,440
And just people hearing your
story and the more stories we

874
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:21,000
put out there that are positive
and they're not, you know, the

875
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:24,280
negative stories that the media
I like to distort that aren't

876
00:46:24,280 --> 00:46:26,800
really true is really, really
important.

877
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:29,480
And we definitely need more of
that for sure.

878
00:46:29,480 --> 00:46:32,680
So definitely people just
talking about it to others and

879
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:36,600
going on your podcast, going
into your platform and just

880
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,600
being honest about it is really
important.

881
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,080
Yeah, I know a lot of people are
not comfortable talking about.

882
00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,080
Some people even say that they
haven't told their family

883
00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:48,080
members because of stigma
attached to it.

884
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,040
This is a real shame.
I understand.

885
00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:52,160
I totally get it.
You know, when I was in pain

886
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:54,920
management, there was a huge
stigma talking about opiates.

887
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,400
You know, I didn't go around
telling everybody broadcaster,

888
00:46:57,840 --> 00:46:59,840
hey, by the way, I take
Oxycontin and Percocet.

889
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,320
People would freak.
Out right exactly.

890
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:07,400
Because of stigma and but with
freedom, I'm like, after a while

891
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:09,600
when I started, I'm like, it's
just a plant.

892
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,400
I, I don't want to feel
stigmatized or ashamed.

893
00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:16,840
And I just decided I'm I'm going
to be open about it because it's

894
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,520
not a big deal and, but, but
it's what you're comfortable

895
00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:21,960
doing for sure.
Yeah.

896
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,440
Yeah, and if they want to get
involved, the AKA has great

897
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,120
resources too.
They're always looking for

898
00:47:27,120 --> 00:47:29,720
people to help out.
And they do need help.

899
00:47:29,720 --> 00:47:32,520
I know that for sure.
So there's different avenues you

900
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:35,840
can take if you don't want to be
on something like this and you'd

901
00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:39,840
rather be more in the background
or even writing your story and

902
00:47:39,840 --> 00:47:42,800
like sending it in or sending it
in to the legislator.

903
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,880
Like this is how kratom that's
important.

904
00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:47,920
These people need to read that
and know that so.

905
00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,320
Yeah, and there's ways to do it
anonymously too, for those who

906
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,560
are not comfortable putting out
their name or being in a video

907
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:57,120
or a photo of them.
You know, many times, like when

908
00:47:57,120 --> 00:48:00,880
the AKA puts out these notices,
it's a matter of you tap the

909
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,760
button, it's just a link, it'll
take you somewhere, you put in

910
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:06,720
your name, it'll just ask for
some information, you put that

911
00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:08,760
in and there'll be a room for
you to put your little

912
00:48:08,760 --> 00:48:11,160
testimony.
And that I, what I always do is

913
00:48:11,160 --> 00:48:13,720
I just have like my little
paragraph and I just save it on

914
00:48:13,720 --> 00:48:15,920
my computer so I can just copy
and paste it every time.

915
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:18,400
And you can just do a fake name
of it.

916
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,840
Like if you're not comfortable
using your real name, I use my

917
00:48:20,840 --> 00:48:22,880
real name for all this.
But for those that aren't

918
00:48:22,880 --> 00:48:26,360
comfortable, just come up with a
way to do it where you're

919
00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:29,000
comfortable, where you can be
anonymous, use a different name

920
00:48:29,000 --> 00:48:31,600
or, or do your first name, but
not the last name.

921
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:34,960
Like, you know, do what works
for you, but it's so important

922
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:40,400
for legislators and people who,
you know, makes these decisions

923
00:48:40,400 --> 00:48:43,240
on our behalf that they're aware
of how you feel about it.

924
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:45,440
And it really makes a
difference.

925
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:48,160
I just want our listeners to
know because, like, I've been to

926
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,400
Capitol Hill twice to speak with
legislative AIDS staff members

927
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:57,480
about kratom, and they're eager
to hear our stories.

928
00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:00,440
They really are.
This last earlier this year,

929
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:04,240
this past April, I got to sit
down with quite a few and they

930
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:08,520
want to hear like how we're
affected by all this and how

931
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:12,920
we're using a plant instead of
opioids to, to just live a

932
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,840
better life.
And, and they, we're, we're

933
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,640
helping them understand what
this is all about.

934
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:22,000
And if if too many of us are
scared to speak out, then

935
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:25,160
they're going to just keep
making laws what they think are

936
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:27,960
the is the right thing without
understanding the full picture.

937
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:30,800
Exactly.
And then that's so important.

938
00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:34,960
Another thing I've done too, I
also train jiu jitsu.

939
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,960
I do competitions and I always
bring my metrospect stuff and

940
00:49:39,160 --> 00:49:43,200
bring that and tell people.
Even telling people about it is

941
00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,160
a good thing because a lot of us
that do jiu jitsu get hurt.

942
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,920
We're sore, it hurts, and it's
something natural that we all

943
00:49:50,920 --> 00:49:52,680
can take that will help with
training.

944
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,880
So a lot of my training partners
and people in that community

945
00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,560
know about it too.
So it's good to introduce it

946
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:02,200
into different communities that
also could benefit from it too.

947
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:05,880
And that's also a good way to
advocate for it and get it more

948
00:50:06,160 --> 00:50:08,520
mainstream so more people know
about it, for sure.

949
00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,800
That's great.
I just love all the advocacy

950
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:13,400
work you do let's shift gears
for a moment.

951
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:15,800
What are your thoughts with 708,
if you're comfortable talking

952
00:50:15,800 --> 00:50:18,760
about it, because it's been the
big controversy all year.

953
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,800
A lot's been going on with that.
You know, the FDA is advising

954
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:27,840
the DEA to make it schedule one.
And to be clear, for those that

955
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,080
don't ever listen to my full
story when I talk about this,

956
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:35,160
I'm not for prohibition, but I'm
for regulation.

957
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,160
They all think I want this
scheduled one ban.

958
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,440
It's like, no, but we need
regulations.

959
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:43,680
We need to not give them drug
names for their marketing.

960
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:45,800
Like there's, there's so many
things they could fix through

961
00:50:45,800 --> 00:50:48,120
regulation.
What are your thoughts on 7?

962
00:50:48,200 --> 00:50:51,360
I agree with that and I think a
lot of people are just confused

963
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,520
the way that it's sold.
It's sold in a lot of gas

964
00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:57,280
stations and they have no idea.
They think it's regular natural

965
00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:01,200
kratom when it's a lot stronger
than powder.

966
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:05,280
And so they're taking a lot of
it and it's not good and they're

967
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:08,120
killing their tolerance and they
just they don't know what

968
00:51:08,120 --> 00:51:10,400
they're taking.
And the people selling it to

969
00:51:10,400 --> 00:51:12,120
them also don't know what
they're selling.

970
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:15,760
So that's the big problem is
these people are educated of how

971
00:51:15,760 --> 00:51:18,120
to explain what it is.
And I think that's the biggest

972
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,720
problem with this.
And it got kind of out of

973
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:24,000
control because people didn't
know what they were doing.

974
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:28,320
And then they took too much and
a lot of people started getting

975
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,000
sick from it because it was a
really high amount, which makes

976
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,040
sense.
I always tell people less is

977
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,680
better and, you know, to always
start low.

978
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:41,840
But I think education is really
important and that they should

979
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:45,800
have been better educated.
And I think there was other ways

980
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,080
they could have done it better
where this wouldn't have

981
00:51:48,080 --> 00:51:51,200
happened.
Even marketing it different

982
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,120
without, because a lot of people
thought it was just kratom and

983
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,720
just it's not kratom, it's
different than kratom and they

984
00:51:57,720 --> 00:52:00,440
don't get that.
So the way it was marketed was a

985
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:03,440
little, I think wrong and I
think they should have had more

986
00:52:03,480 --> 00:52:05,680
information on it personally.
So.

987
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,560
Yeah, I think if it just one so
easily accessible to gas

988
00:52:09,560 --> 00:52:13,160
stations like smoke shops to the
counter and you got to be, you

989
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:15,920
know, depending on the state 21
and up or 18 and up to enter.

990
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:19,360
Like that's the and I know a lot
of smoke shops carry it, but

991
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:22,840
having it in gas stations where
is too easy for people to

992
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,560
access.
And and it's sitting right next

993
00:52:24,560 --> 00:52:28,080
to the five hour energy drink
like there's and they're calling

994
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:32,440
it drug names and putting the
word Kratom on the package is so

995
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:35,160
misleading.
And for those that don't know,

996
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:41,880
it's a semi synthetic made with
one component of kratom that's

997
00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:45,680
forms and then naturally
occurring when it the leaf

998
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:47,960
dries.
It's it's so misleading because

999
00:52:48,120 --> 00:52:50,320
a lot of people tell me they're
just being told that the smoke

1000
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:54,040
shops is strong kratom.
And it's not, it's ultra

1001
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:56,480
concentrated.
It's it's completely different.

1002
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,920
And it's usually sold in the
tablets which you're supposed to

1003
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:01,720
break in half and take a little
bit of it.

1004
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:04,120
And these people are just taking
the whole tablet.

1005
00:53:04,360 --> 00:53:09,080
Yeah, yeah, it's yeah.
Because we're not reading what

1006
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,200
the packaging.
Is, yeah.

1007
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:13,880
Well, when you see a tablet,
what are you going to?

1008
00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:16,200
Are you going to be like, oh,
maybe I should cut in half or in

1009
00:53:16,200 --> 00:53:17,360
quarters?
No.

1010
00:53:17,360 --> 00:53:19,480
Because I don't know how strong
it is.

1011
00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:21,760
So like it's just a little
tablet and they don't understand

1012
00:53:21,760 --> 00:53:25,360
that little tablet is very, very
strong because of what it says

1013
00:53:25,360 --> 00:53:29,200
on the package and it doesn't
say what it should say on it.

1014
00:53:29,280 --> 00:53:31,560
Honestly, you know, it's
different.

1015
00:53:31,960 --> 00:53:35,480
And it does hurt people like me
and other kratom vendors because

1016
00:53:35,480 --> 00:53:38,680
then they think it's all kratom
and then all kratom is bad

1017
00:53:38,680 --> 00:53:41,720
because it's super strong and
it's going to make me sick.

1018
00:53:41,760 --> 00:53:45,680
And it's not and not the natural
kratom is completely different

1019
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:48,560
than that.
And I've, I've had to educate my

1020
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:52,280
customers, I've made videos on
it and just telling people the

1021
00:53:52,280 --> 00:53:54,640
difference and they really need
to know the difference between

1022
00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:58,280
natural kratom and then the the
seven OH, like they need to know

1023
00:53:58,280 --> 00:53:59,960
the difference and there's a big
difference.

1024
00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,000
So that's been a big thing too,
I think is speaking out and

1025
00:54:04,000 --> 00:54:06,400
telling people what the
differences with that, because

1026
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,840
then the people that are against
kratom think that it it's really

1027
00:54:09,840 --> 00:54:12,320
bad now because it's and it's
not.

1028
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:16,120
So it's a lot of more
explaining, you know, so.

1029
00:54:16,480 --> 00:54:20,160
Yeah, definitely.
It is very frustrating, but also

1030
00:54:20,160 --> 00:54:23,720
know there's plenty of people
that are utilizing 708 and they

1031
00:54:23,720 --> 00:54:26,440
tell me if they're using it very
responsibly, special people in

1032
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,320
the chronic pain community.
I think it's great that people

1033
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:32,040
have found that as an
alternative to the opiates that

1034
00:54:32,040 --> 00:54:33,600
they can no longer get access
to.

1035
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:36,440
So instead of going to the
streets, they're they're using

1036
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:39,040
it very carefully.
They, they've researched,

1037
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:43,040
they're, they're informed and
that's great, but I think we

1038
00:54:43,040 --> 00:54:44,920
still need regulations and it
could be a.

1039
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,520
Lot more, a lot more, especially
of how it's sold, what's on the

1040
00:54:49,520 --> 00:54:52,520
package, the information there.
There needs to be way more with

1041
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:54,440
that.
I that's where I think that's

1042
00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,240
where it all went wrong to.
I agree with that.

1043
00:54:56,240 --> 00:54:59,840
I don't have a problem with it,
but I think there should be more

1044
00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:02,200
information on it and it
shouldn't just be that

1045
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:05,240
accessible on a shelf there an
energy drink that you can just

1046
00:55:05,240 --> 00:55:08,240
grab and you think it's like
that in a pill, It's not.

1047
00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,400
So people really need to be
educated on it.

1048
00:55:11,960 --> 00:55:14,080
Yeah, that's great advice.
This is such an awesome

1049
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:16,760
conversation, Sarah, you, you,
you know, you've been a long

1050
00:55:16,760 --> 00:55:20,840
time consumer, huge advocate and
also on the industry side.

1051
00:55:21,160 --> 00:55:24,080
So to wrap up, last question for
you is, knowing everything you

1052
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:27,320
know now about kratom and you
know a lot, what advice would

1053
00:55:27,320 --> 00:55:30,080
you give someone who's just
starting in their journey?

1054
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:35,240
Definitely dehydrated.
It's a plant fiber and Mountain

1055
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:39,600
Dew is not water.
Drink plain water or do like the

1056
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:42,840
Liquid IV if you would like more
flavor and that also has

1057
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,720
electrolytes.
It can dehydrate you.

1058
00:55:45,720 --> 00:55:49,120
It is a plant that works better
when you're hydrated to work

1059
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,280
through your body.
That's the biggest thing I say

1060
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,680
with new people is they're like,
oh, I took it with some Mountain

1061
00:55:53,680 --> 00:55:58,120
Dew or Doctor Pepper and no, you
have to take it with water.

1062
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:00,680
Water.
That's really important,

1063
00:56:01,640 --> 00:56:04,200
especially in the summer when
you're more dehydrated or it's

1064
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:06,760
hot.
And another thing is start low

1065
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:10,320
and then work your way up slowly
and figure out what works for

1066
00:56:10,320 --> 00:56:11,600
you.
You're not going to take the

1067
00:56:11,600 --> 00:56:15,240
same as me or as you.
Everyone's different with how

1068
00:56:15,240 --> 00:56:17,560
much they take.
So that's really important.

1069
00:56:17,560 --> 00:56:19,600
And measure with a digital
scale.

1070
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:21,720
Don't take any spoon from the
kitchen.

1071
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:25,000
Don't do it and just throw it in
a cup and mix it.

1072
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:28,880
Don't actually measure it.
Put it on the scale, See how

1073
00:56:28,880 --> 00:56:32,640
many, how much grams you have,
you know, 2G whatever and then

1074
00:56:32,640 --> 00:56:34,640
mix it.
Don't do it where you have this

1075
00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:37,440
big spoon and it's like 5-6
grams and then you're like, oh,

1076
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,040
I that was way too much.
It made me sleepy.

1077
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:43,880
Well, you took the whole spoon,
so that's a big thing to make

1078
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:46,800
sure you measure correctly.
That's the three things I always

1079
00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:48,320
say to people that's really
important.

1080
00:56:49,320 --> 00:56:51,880
Such great advice.
Thank you so much Sarah for

1081
00:56:51,880 --> 00:56:54,000
being here and sharing all your
wisdom with us.

1082
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:55,680
Thank you for having me.