Ep 79: From Exhaustion to Empowerment: How Kratom Changed Sarah Pitta’s Life

0:00 We were pretty worn out and we started trying to search for something that was natural. We didn't want to go on opiates or prescription medications or anything like that. So that's when we started searching for something that we thought would help and that was natural. And he was a over the road truck driver. He worked long night, so he had to stay awake, obviously, and he couldn't be on prescription medicine and his back was really taking a beating from driving a truck when he had that back injury. So if he didn't find kratom, he probably would have had to leave his job at that point. So it's really good that we found it when we did. So it saved his job. And actually, when I started taking it, I got a promotion at my job because I started to do better at work because I wasn't so exhausted and I was in a better mood and it helped me more than I thought it would.

0:55 It was amazing. I'm here with Sarah PETA from Metrospect Kratom. This is a fellow kratom consumer advocate industry person. So excited Sarah to have you on the podcast. Can't wait to hear your story. How are you doing today? Thanks for being here. Good. How are you? And thank you for having me on here. I'm so excited that you have the space where people can share their kratom stories. It's really important. So really excited to be here. Well, I love connecting with fellow like minded people that are, are like me, consumers advocates and just trying to help educate people, you know, to know more about kratom and and you know, the benefits and how we can help you. So I'm really excited about this conversation. So why don't we start off with you telling everybody a little bit about you and life before kratom? OK so I'm a mom.

1:59 Before I discovered kratom I had two young kids, toddler and another toddler, and I was working full time. My husband was working full time and I didn't have a lot of energy. I was pretty tired. I didn't have time to do a lot of things for my kids because I was exhausted from working like 10 hour days. We both had chronic pain injuries. My husband had a really bad back injury that he constantly was taking ibuprofen. I was taking ibuprofen a little too much where it wasn't good for our stomachs. So we were really hoping to find something that would help.

2:41 So that was before kratom. We were pretty worn out and we started trying to search for something that was natural. We didn't want to go on opiates or prescription medications or anything like that, So that's when we started searching for something that we thought would help and that was natural. So that was before we found kratom and we were exhausted so. Yeah, so looking looking for something to help with energy and then also because y'all both had some pain issues, just trying to find an alternative that was natural. Yes, and he was a over the road truck driver. He worked long night so he had to stay awake obviously, and he couldn't be on prescription medicine and his back was really taking a beating from driving a truck when he had that back injury. So if he didn't find kratom, he probably would have had to leave his job at that point.

3:36 So it's really good that we found it when we did. So it saved his job. And actually when I started taking it, I got a promotion at my job because I started to do better at work because I wasn't so exhausted and I was in a better mood and it helped me more than I thought it would. It was amazing so. Yeah, that was awesome. So, So what led y'all to like, you found kratom? Was it Google or like how? How did y'all first discover it? Yep, it was Google. My husband actually found it first and he started researching it. I wasn't too sure about it because it was mainly in Indonesia, so I started looking into it and ordering from a different country and not knowing the product that well was a little scary I guess to me.

4:26 But eventually we found a good supplier and we ordered it and it came and we tried it and it was great. It really worked. We started with powder, with chocolate milk. We tried to cover up the earthy taste. I wasn't a big fan of the taste. It didn't bother him so much. But me, I had kind of a tough time. So I tried to mix it with pineapple juice, orange juice, and eventually I got into making my own capsules and just capping it because I liked it better than drinking it. I know everyone's different, Some people like the taste, but for me it was a little too earthy, I guess, yeah. It's very earthy.

5:10 I had the same problem in the beginning. You know, I started with capsules because everybody online was saying how bad it tastes. So I thought, all right, I'm just going to be a wuss about it, let me do capsules. And it didn't do very much. And I thought, well, this is strange, but I'm also taking a bunch of these capsules. So over time I thought maybe the capsule shells just aren't opening up. I people say poke holes. I did, I did all the things and still I didn't get great results. I got like kind of OK results. But then one day I'm like, let me open the capsules and just mix it up. And I know it's going to taste bad, but let me just make it, drink it fast. And I honestly, I thought I was going to puke it. It tastes so bad for me the first time but I noticed a huge difference and I got better pain relief and I thought OK I'm just going to suck it up.

5:56 I did try the chocolate milk because people said that's a good way to mask it and it does not taste as bad if you mix it with chocolate. Milk. But for me, I didn't get the effective result versus if I mixed it with orange juice and probably because of the citrus. And I just found, OK, I don't like the taste, I'm gonna put a bunch of orange juice in, but it works best if I use that. And it's really such an individualized thing. You gotta find what works for you. Yeah, some people like the powder, some people like capsules. There's, you know, some people make the tea. The tea I think is pretty good. I've done that before and added honey. And that is more like a matcha taste to me so that I can do. But the straight part can't do that.

6:39 But yeah, so everyone figures out, you know, what's best for them. He can do both. He usually does capsules just because it's easier, like on the go to take them and not measure and mix and all that stuff. So it's definitely a personal preference for people for sure. Absolutely. So when was this? When y'all discovered it? What year was that? 2014 is when we first found out about it. We started taking it, like I said, and it was amazing. So we started telling our friends and they noticed a difference there. Like how come you're not so tired anymore and how come you have more energy than I do? And you know, so we're like, take this stuff and everyone's like, oh, I don't know if I could drink that.

7:21 And there's people that did and then tried capsules too, and it worked for them and they were really amazed that it worked. And a lot of people back then really didn't know what it was. It wasn't as popular as it is now, so they had to be educated on it. But I was amazed by it and it really was helping me. I could do more with my kids, which was really important to me, and I just wanted people to know about it. So I started bringing extra into my work for my workers and they would take it too. And they're like, this is great. So more and more people found out about it and that's when it grew and people kept asking me to order it for them. So that's how it kind of turned into a business eventually, yeah.

8:09 What's so interesting you, you, Sarah, you and your husband are so much like other kratom companies I've gotten to know in the industry where first it was I discovered this amazing plan. It worked so well for me. So they became a kratom consumer and then they wanted to help others and they became a big advocate to help spread the message and, and make bring awareness. And then through that, it's like, you know what, I'm gonna do this as a business so I can help change the world because I, you know, I'm trying to help people. Or like in y'all's case, where people are like do this as a business so I can just always get it from you because you were already doing that. I love that. So that's just so cool. So y'all discovered in 2014. That's a long time ago.

8:52 And I, I know there wasn't a lot of information back then. Like there is. Wow. And also kratom packaging back then was so different. You know, I started in 2019, which was years after y'all started. And when I first started, you know, some of the packages would be just a plastic bag with a Sharpie name of what you're getting. It was that, nothing else. I mean, what was that like when y'all first was? Was the packaging OK or sketchy? Our packaging was good. We wanted to have better packaging than what we're seeing out there. We didn't want to do the plastic baggy. So we actually had better packaging. Our packaging now is way better, but it wasn't the printed bags. But we had the nicer bags with the label printed on there and the information on it, so people knew more about it and it wasn't just written on like green mang, duh.

9:39 So they actually had a little bit more information to go off of on ours. So that's how we started with that. And eventually it got big enough where I had to leave my job. And I liked doing that better because I was actually helping people where I was working. It was just a job, you know, where they could easily replace people and it didn't really mean anything to me personally. So this actually meant a lot to me. And that's when I started my women's support group online. Back then too, there was there was a couple of like groups for kratom, but not very many. And a lot of people still didn't understand what it was. And there wasn't any groups really for women. And I noticed that a lot of the women were quiet and kind of uncomfortable to speak in those groups with the men. So I decided to make a woman's only kratom support group and actually got really big.

10:34 And it was really amazing. I helped, you know, educate women. We had admins. We had a lot of people get involved in it, a lot of kratom advocates. And it was, it's like a little family, kind of like a really cool community. So yeah, I was really that we made that, yeah. I love that. We'll definitely be talking more about that shortly. But back to like when y'all were first starting and, and, and you know, when I was talking about like the plastic bags and sketchiness is like the people that you know, before y'all did it as a business when you're actually buying it from these places, was it like, you know, this could be done better? And that's like another reason for y'all to go into business like this.

11:15 This some of this is a little sketchy and better done better so it, you know, the consumers understand what they're getting. Yeah, we were basically getting kilos. They were vacuum sealed just in plastic with like written on it, like you said. And it was a little weird. And I, I wasn't crazy about it. So we kept looking more into it and into the packaging and into the suppliers who actually had kratom. And then we found a guy in Indonesia who actually worked with a farm. And then we started talking with him and he cared more about the quality of it. And I think that's really important. So we started ordering from him exclusively just because it was better quality and we knew how it was being grown, where it was coming from, what was in the soil. And that was really important to me from just getting it in a bag from somewhere that I wasn't so sure of, I guess. And that's how we started our relationship with who we still work with now, our supplier.

12:16 So we work directly with him. But I really wanted to know what I was getting and how it was processed, which is I think really important. Absolutely. And then if you're, you know selling it to customers, like you're very aware of every aspect of it. Whereas I'm sure there's some companies out there where they just find somebody in Indonesia, buy it in bulk and then turn around and sell it and they don't necessarily have all those details. And I think that kind of thing is very important in the industry, especially now in 2025. I think transparency is so important. Going back to like when y'all first discovered in 2014. Well, first of all, when did y'all turn this into a business? Y'all started in 2014 as consumers. What year did y'all turn it into a business? It was late 2015, so like a year later, pretty much after we discovered it and after I started talking to people about it and everything and being more involved with it, that's when we decided to make it into a business because there was other companies out there, but not as many family business companies. And we were a smaller company that was more concerned about the quality and the people in Indonesia, the people that we work with, we were helping them as well. And it's really cool to know the people that you're helping and have a relationship with them.

13:38 So that was really important to me as well, so. Yeah, and I'll make sure there's a link in the show notes for your company, Metrospect Kratom, in case anybody's like, wow, this all sounds good. I want to check them out. And so back to when y'all discovered it in 2014. What was it about y'all's research on Google that made y'all go we got to try this stuff. Basically it was, it's saying that it was used for centuries in Indonesia and people used it either as a tea or they would chew on the leaves and it was something that helped with pain relief and mood. And we're like, that sounds pretty awesome. And it's natural. It's a natural plant which we wanted a natural supplement. We don't want anything that was chemical or made in a lab.

14:20 We wanted a plant based supplement. So we thought that would be perfect for what we were looking for personally, so. Yeah, yeah, that's. I'm so glad y'all found it. I mean, I, I, I it's interesting how all of us found kratom in our own interesting way. For me it was the documentary A Leap of Faith. Yeah, there's that too. Yeah, yeah. Which is great, Yeah. Popped up into my Netflix and it went back when it was on. You know, it's on YouTube now. I'll put the link in the show notes. But back in 2019, it was playing on Netflix, and it sounded interesting. And it was right when I was losing access to my pain meds through pain management. And I was looking like for what I was going to do next while thinking, do I have to go get a drug dealer?

15:04 Which is so ridiculous, you know, when you live in chronic pain. You. Know for many of us, we got to have something and we shouldn't have to go to the streets, you know, And that documentary for me was life changing because it's like, wait a minute, there's a plant that could help with my chronic pain and make me just feel better and overall well-being. I just remember thinking, there's no way. There's no way, but I was like, I'm gonna try it, I'm gonna try. It a lot of people say that too. They're like no and I'm like try it and then when they do they're like, oh, you were serious. It really does work and it's really great and people are usually surprised by that too. I was personally, when I first tried, I'm like, I don't know, this tastes really weird and you know, but it really does work and it really is an amazing plant. But that documentary was something I always would send to people as well.

15:53 And it's great for education, for people that have no idea what. They did a great job of explaining it. So I was really happy when that came out. That was great. It it was very well done and it was very well-rounded. It wasn't like just pro kratom and no anti like they they were the film maker did a great job showing, you know, just all aspects of it and really educating us on the plan, how it came to be, where it's from and the research that's was done and the future research like where they were going with it. And I I'm just so glad that came out and the timing with it was was so great. And that means then that you guys were already a kratom business when the whole 2016 thing happened where the DEA tried to schedule it, giving 30 days public notice and like, we're scheduling this and huge public outcry. So as a new business.

16:47 We are freaking out. I I bet because like at that point it it would what, barely a year because you said end of 2015. It was barely a year and we actually had a big shipment coming in and it was seized. They seized our shipment. Yep. And we lost it all the money. Obviously we're not getting that back. And we were really freaking out. We're like, how are we going to continue? We ended up making it. We got together with some other smaller companies and we started working together and they found a way to get it and to like get it shipped basically. And then we finally got kratom and then we made it. But it was, it was really hard. A lot of us got it seized a lot of us. I wasn't the only one and a lot of us were pretty scared. So the community is really strong and everyone is really good with helping each other.

17:37 So the community really came together when this was happening. So that's one thing, when things happen in this community, the people always come together and they work it out and we always make it happen where we can still have access to this plant, which is really amazing. It's wild how that all played out. You know, this 30 day notice, we're banning it, making it schedule one, which means, you know, if you have this is as if you have fentanyl or heroin can go to prison, is banned everywhere. And with schedule one, they can do research on it, which would have been really bad.

18:18 And so thank goodness it was a huge outcry of support in the community. And the whole Joe Rogan thing. It's all in the documentary. People don't know about this. Watch a leap of faith because it's all in there. It's pretty amazing to see that community support and making it so that the DEA reconsidered. Yeah, And the AKA is really good with fighting these battles, too. They're great. They're great advocates. I support them. And they were great with, you know, helping make it so it wasn't scheduled, too. They do a lot for, you know, helping with the laws and people trying to ban it. And I'm really appreciative for that. And they're a great resource for people too, for educational purposes.

19:00 Yeah, I'll link to them as well. American KREM Association. So that's the consumer advocacy and lobbying group. And boy, I, I luckily discovered them early on in my kratom journey and signed up for their newsletter. So all these years you have been 6 1/2 years as a KREM consumer and getting all those emails and being made aware of all these potential ban bills that crop up all the time. And just knowing what's happening so that we can send in an e-mail and share our support for, you know, what we believe in and share our testimony is so important. And I think more people that consume creative need to know about that resource to support. I mean, it's great if you can donate to them. You don't have to, but at minimum get on their newsletter. So I'll link to that, get on the newsletter, Share your story so that we can help keep it safe and legal. Yeah, absolutely.

19:53 It's great. I I'm really appreciate it for them as well. And whenever I see that a band is going to go on, I always post it too. And I always share it with everyone that I know, especially people that are in those states. It's really important to know what's going on in your state and it's important to get involved and at least, you know, sign the document saying that you support kratom. It's really important. So yeah. Absolutely reach out to your lawmakers and let your voice be heard. So y'all discover kratom. It's it's amazing for you all. So tell us about like what did y'all know that like like how is this affecting your day-to-day life, your overall well-being?

20:34 Like just tell us more about like how that all was. It affected it amazing. I didn't need so much coffee caffeine. It gave me the energy that I needed. I tend to like the greens, like the more energetic strains personally, but I wasn't sore. I would get like sore, especially from my job or just, you know, we also had a farm in Texas. We had alpacas, we had goats, we had llamas. So I was like out there chickens doing that too. And that's a lot of work too. So that helped with taking care of the animals and just giving me more energy. I was in a better mood. I also have really bad anxiety.

21:16 I'm actually a really shy person, so that's why I don't do these very often. But it really helped me with my mood too. And it helped me with my anxiety. And I was amazed how much it helps better than pharmaceutical meds did for me. When I took them for anxiety before, it kind of made me like a zombie. I was kind of like numb, you know, it helped mask it, but it didn't really help, you know, make me feel better. But with creatine, it actually helps. So yeah, I'm very thankful that I found that it's much better for me personally. So yeah. I'm always amazed at how many people I talked to on this podcast tell me about how they were able to stop different pharmaceuticals.

21:59 I even had a lady on recently that was able to stop 26 meds. It's like that amazing, you know that that to have all these different medications that you realize you don't need any more. Right, yes. And it helps. Oh, sorry. Oh, go ahead. But it helps with so many different people, like you said, for different things and you wouldn't even think of all the things that helps. It helps with many different things, for sure. My grandmother had cancer. She eventually passed away from it, but she was actually using kratom that I sent to her rather than the meds because she said that the kratom actually helped her more with the pain. So I was really grateful to at least give her relief when she was battling the cancer. And that was really important to me too. So it really does make a difference in people's lives and a big, big difference.

22:50 So yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It. It's just always cool hearing all these different stories, especially when somebody says I started kratom for this specific thing, whether is battling addiction or or suffering from chronic pain or using it specifically for the ADHD or anxiety. But then they realized like, oh, but it helps me with this other thing too, or that or like a whole as a whole Symphony. I like the word something because Doctor Chris McCurdy, leading kratom expert, always calls that the plant as you know, Symphony of alkaloids because the way it worked, the alkaloid work. And it's almost like for many of us it's a Symphony of things. It helps in our life just from consuming a plant. Exactly, and everyone's different too with what they like and what works for them too. And even I know people some are opposites like red. Get some people energized and for me it makes me like relaxed and green makes me energized, but for some people it makes them sleepy.

23:46 So it's a personal preference and everyone's body is different and that's really amazing how it works differently for people and everyone has like a personal preference. Yeah, it's interesting. I find it interesting. However, body is affected differently. And just like what you're saying, some people are opposite. And when I used to hear about that, it seemed like it was a pretty small percentage of people, like maybe 20% or something. Just from my observation, talking to so many people for, for many, many years now. But I've seen it more and more as people being like social media comments saying Reds give me energy and, and white makes me sleepy. I'm like, I think there's a lot more people that are opposites and it's just, but you being in the industry and you're always talking to people, to customers and people interested, I imagine you really get a good picture of like how diverse people are with this plant. Yeah, it's really diverse and some people stick to certain, like Reds, they like Reds, they'll use different ones or they'll use blends with Reds, but they stick to that certain. I'm like that too.

24:49 I stick to green. I do blends with green. I take Reds sometimes to relax, but I'm mainly like a green person because I feel that works the best for my body. So it is really interesting. We have different people that we've heard from that like to make their own blends and they mix something and it works perfect for them. So it's really cool that people can kind of come up with their own, you know, kind of, I guess how to say it, concoction of what works best for them, which is really cool. So yeah. Yeah, 'cause I always tell people when they're new and they're always at so many times people go, oh, I have what you have. I have degenerative disease. Just tell me what to buy.

25:30 What kind do you use? I, you know, and I'm like, it's not really like that. It's very individualized. You have to try. And when I started, I just got all three colors and tried each one to see like what works and what doesn't. And for me, I noticed quickly that the Reds did not help my pain at all. They didn't relax me. I thought it was odd. I just didn't get much of anything. And the white was way too energetic. I'm like, oh, no, no, no, no. It was no good for me. And then and I would try multiple times. It wasn't like just a once and done like I, I was like, let me keep trying like. But then the green was like, of course I saved green from I don't know why I did green last. And greens were like, oh, I'm feeling something with this.

26:14 I'm feeling less pain, I'm getting a little bit of energy boost like coffee. I'm like, OK, so and then I was on this mission to just try different types of greens. And it is interesting to see like what works for you. And I always tell people keep a dose journal because it helps in the beginning as you're starting to like kind of figure out what works and what doesn't. And that was so instrumental for me in in, in my journey in the beginning of it. Yeah, that's really important. I did that as well. I heard a journal. I always tell people that are new to keep notes, even if it's not a journal, just write it down. And that's really, really useful. It's confusing when you're new to it because there's a lot of information out there and there's a lot of different types.

26:57 And I know it's overwhelming for a lot of people. So it's best to start with, you know, simple and then figuring out what works best for you and just like build from that. So I tell a lot of people that and like you said, to start with white, red and green and then see which one works better for what you need for sure. Yeah, because if you start blending them up, I think it's best to know which ones work on you. And it has to do with like the drying process and the, the MIT percentage and, and I just found that the higher MIT I do better with the mitragynine. And I think that's why the greens especially like super greens work really well on me. And I always noticed they have the higher MIT. And I'm on a quest to find a red that will do something for me. And I've yet to find I I but I have tried one that is it's a higher MIT for red and I think that's why, but I don't know. I there's still a lot of this.

27:58 Well, what does it really mean? Kratom is kratom and I know there's, there's some controversy with is always be strange or a marketing thing and that some of these locations that that people put on a kratom package, Kratom's not even grown there. And I don't know. Do you do you want to? I mean, you don't have to, but if you want to share your take on it, because it's always interesting how vendors you know what their thought is on it. Yeah, I get that. For us, we do make our own blends and they have different names. I know a lot of vendors do that just because to have your own like, I guess signature blend that separates you from all the other people out there, there's a lot. So a lot of people do that. That's why we do it honestly.

28:41 And we make our own based on our customers feedback to us and we try to make it more customized for them. And that's why we came up with the blends we came up with as far as the different, you know, ballet and then there's green Mangda and then there's Vietnam. There's all those different names. Mangda just means like high grade, like they call it pip grade, like highest grade. Yeah, it doesn't mean where it's grown, but what's important about it being grown is how it's grown, the soil that it's grown in, if they're using pesticides. And it's really important to know where it's coming from. And basically the other name of it comes from the drying process too.

29:25 So, you know, like the yellows aren't really, you know, a yellow, it's just leaving the leaves in the sun longer or the drying process with the greens and the drying process with the Reds. And different farms process it differently. They dry it in different ways. So that what that's what makes a difference between the powder with different people. So everyone's going to be a little bit different depending on where they get their kratom from. Yeah, it's good to experiment to see what works for you, because that's a good point. Every vendor is different and you know, you got the drying process and you got the individual colors, you got the blends. And I think blends are great once you know what works for you.

30:08 Because if you're new and you're starting with the blend, it could be, well, if it has some white in it or has some red in it and that doesn't work with you, then the whole thing is probably not working for you. And it's like figuring out like what what specifically works on you. It's an interesting plan. I mean, it's not a simple thing to when people are new and trying to explain. There's just so many little things about it. That's why I started, you know, my Kratom real talk community over on the school platform I started so we could have a place to talk about kratom where there's no censorship because that to me is very important. But I love it and it's all free. So I'll make sure it's LinkedIn here, but the classroom section is where I can put so much educational information and I've really built it out in these last two years.

30:56 And it's like I've really designed it to be a perfect place for anybody brand new that's researching to just go in there and go look through all the info and they'll get the whole big that is not just go by these capsules and you're and you're going to be instantly helped. It's like you might, but it might depend on which color and and where you're buying it. You know, if you buy from a smoke shop, it might not be great quality versus an online vendor like yourself who typically have the higher quality. You know it's third party lab tested, like you know you're getting a good product. Right, exactly that. That's a big difference between just buying it off the shelf and the person even selling it to you usually doesn't know too much about it either.

31:44 When we get a lot of new customers, we put in a little brochure, a guide that actually guides them through about the plant, about the different colors, about dosing, measuring, because a lot of people don't know much about that. And also your platform is great for that too. They have a lot of information on there and it's a lot of good, solid information because if you go to other places, sometimes it's kind of mixed and some information's good and some's not so good. So it's really good to go to a source like yours where you have the right information, especially for new people. Yeah, it's just trying to educate. I, I love that you're like me. We're just trying to educate people and help people that are new to just get good, helpful information.

32:28 You know, because there is a lot of misinformation, online, propaganda. It's crazy how much stuff is out there that is completely incorrect. Yeah, it's really hard to say that information on Facebook or on other platforms because I get banned. I know you, you know what I mean. My page will get shut down. I've had groups shut down, and your platform is a safe place where we can actually spell it out and we can say, you know, the correct information. That's really important. So I'm really thankful for that platform for sure, because I've had all my information just erased, you know, just because they had an issue with it. So yeah. Yeah, Facebook really has been terrible. I mean, they deleted all kratom pages, profiles, groups in the past year.

33:17 My Krame Stories podcast Facebook page got removed. It's just a real shame because so many people use Facebook to connect with people to get information, to be part of a community and to not be able to talk about kratom. It's just is is terrible and and it's it's spread all over. I mean TikTok is terrible. By the time this episode comes out, my TikTok will probably be deleted. I've already I've I've already been threatened today by TikTok. They put AI don't think the public sees it. But when I go to my profile, under my picture, there's this big red sentence that says ban warning cause and they gave me some, they gave me harsh warnings. I felt like I was at school being like, all right, Madeline, It's really a shame, but. I got that too with Facebook.

34:03 And then the I've got put in Facebook jail where I couldn't use it for like a month. I had groups get shut down. I got a couple of them back. My women's group actually has been around for seven years. So we actually have been good. Yeah. So we had to change the name a little bit and keep it kind of, you know, buttoned up so we don't get in trouble. But at least we still have that group of people together. I'm trying to tell other people to go to platforms like yours though, where it's safer and they don't have to worry about being censored and they can actually say what they feel and ask questions they want to ask and no one's it's going to judge them for that, and that's really important. Oh, it's 100%. And I appreciate you letting people in your community know because I've seen that they've been coming because it's been letting me know that they were referred over by you.

34:49 And I love that we can have a place where we can talk freely. There's no judgement. Like you were saying, it's private, so whatever's posted is the public can't see it, only people that join. I think it's so incredibly important and more people need to know that there are platforms like this. I wish more people in our community would build things like this, but social media is just. There's so much censorship and misinformation and people are being misguided. We need a place like this to have these really important conversations. And I want to talk have you talk more about your women's group because I think that's really cool that you put together a women's group specifically for kratom consumers. So let's talk about that.

35:32 Like when, when did you start that and how did that come together? Well, Facebook said it's seven years old, so about 7-8 years ago is when it started. That's back when there were a couple of Facebook kratom groups, but not very many. That's when it was still not as popular back then. And what I noticed with the other groups is that they're, they weren't as I guess, supportive in some of them and there was some drama, but I wanted to make mine drama judgment free. And I noticed a lot of the women felt uncomfortable, like talking in there, especially if it was a woman subject. I get it. They didn't want to say it in a group with men like I get it. So I, I was like, I think they need their own separate group. So me and a couple of my friends who are also advocates made the group together and it started small and then we got up to like 6000 and got really big.

36:28 We got in trouble a couple of times. We had the group like suspended. We actually got it back up. We had to change the name a couple of times and we had a backup group, but we were able to keep it. And we still have all those people in there. And it's really, really cool because it's a really tight community and we all know each other because we've known each other for years. So we all became really good friends too in that community. So it's really cool. That is so awesome. I I love that you saw a need and you filled it, you know, and that that's incredible and is and Facebook was very helpful to me when I first found kratom through the documentary A Leap of faith, I went on looking. I figured there were some Facebook groups about kratom because I did a bunch of research before I started.

37:13 And I always recommend people do your own research gathers much information. Don't just consume something you have no idea what it is. And I found some Facebook groups and it was really helpful to me. And it and it was at a time, I remember in 2019, people were having to say the word tea instead of kratom and be very careful. Yeah, you had to be real careful how you framed it. But even even with all of that, it was incredibly helpful to me. And I remember a big one I was in did get shut down at one point. And I'm like, no, I'm new to like I literally had just started. I think maybe I was a few months in and I was like, Oh my God. But like I'm learning so much from this group.

37:53 So it's just a reminder that these social media platforms, they can do whatever they want. We're on rent. And that's why a platform like school that I'm utilizing for Kratom, Real talk is so helpful because I'm the, I pay for it. It's free for people to join, but I pay every month. I've been doing it for two years. For me, it's worth it to pay to to be able to offer this because I get to control it. No, nobody can cut a tech bro. Can't say sorry, you can't say the word kratom. It's like, no, we're not going down that road. So I even you know, to show you like how far I took this before I started. It was actually a funny story. It was my first TikTok account. It got out of the blue, deleted one day like TikTok, just no warnings.

38:38 No, I never got a strike on the nothing. And then one day it was gone. I was about to post a video, the account's gone. So they did, they deleted it. And they have the right to, you know, they own it. So I was so mad. So I'm like, OK, I'm going to set up a new TikTok. Of course. I mean, that's not going to stop me. Nothing's going to stop me from advocating. And I already have been using school for other stuff. And I'm like, I'm going to start a school for us, call it kratom, real talk. So we also have a place to go where we're not going to have to deal with censorship and all this nonsense. And I can help educate people on a broader scale. And so in that same day, the day they deleted my account, TikTok, I went to school and I contacted them and they were a much smaller company at the time.

39:21 And I reached out and I said I want to set up a community. It's a touchy subject called kratom. I got the e-mail somewhere. I have to go find it. And I gave them all the info because I went through the community guidelines. I'm like, well, sometimes it's hard to tell in community guidelines. Is it something you could do or not? I saw just reach out to the source and ask. The worst will say is no, you can't talk about that here. And then I'm not going to waste my time and spend my money setting it up. And I just gave them the info and they came back very quickly on a Sunday. I was so impressed and said yeah, you can do it. I'm like. That's awesome, So. I set it up and got me a new TikTok and off to the races.

40:03 Like OK, social media is still good. I teach social media to people, to business owners. But. Your own platform that you control is is a great thing to have, and I think an e-mail list is always important. Your own community that you control. There's so many little things we can do to help the big community. So I love that we have a place like that. I'm glad that you're in there now. You've been contributing, Sarah. Oh my gosh, I love all the stuff you're posting in kratom. Real talk, you've been sharing so much valuable. Information. I love it so much. That place is awesome. I can actually spell the word creative. So I was really excited in that I could share my knowledge that I know to other people. I really like sharing what I know to people and that's really fun to me.

40:47 It's something I can't really do on the other platforms at all or I have to like do code words and stuff like it's a pain. I've been trying to talk to our other kratom advocates and I'm trying to get more kratom people from the other platforms into yours because it it, it's so much better. It really is. And it's just like the other platforms. You can have a profile picture talk in there and there's really awesome people and that's all the people that we connect with, you know, and they're really all great people. So I I love that platform. It's it's been great. It's been a great place to connect. It's kind of like a Facebook group, but better. I think that you're able to connect. You can private message other people in the group and you can also post videos, which was very important to me because of all the censorship I've been getting around other places. Like I can post things like in the only place I can post this kind of video is at my Kratom Real talk, I have a 7 minute video walking through step by step how to use blade papes and blade papes that people don't know. So little little pouch thing you can put if you don't want to do the kratom powder, you don't want to taste it, but you don't want to do capsules.

41:54 You put in this little pouch thing, you dip it in water and you swallow it and it works great. It's a great alternative to powder or capsules using powder so you don't have to taste it. But I tried putting some stuff on TikTok and, and they weren't liking it. So I'm like, I'm not, I'm making a step by step. Just I put the camera on. I just did my and it's 7 minutes long. I'm like, here's a place I can put it where and it's helped so many people. I also made a long video of how I make my swamp water tea in the morning, my kratom, salt, swamp water, like things like that help so many people because this information you can't get anywhere else because if you put that up it'll get taken down. Right, exactly. I've made videos before and they have gotten taken down. I tried for YouTube.

42:37 I got one of my YouTube accounts shut down because of the videos and it was just videos like that one was us making capsules. That one actually is still up there. But we had another one of how to measure kratom I showed with a digital scale and how to measure it correctly and scooping it and everything and that got taken down. So yeah, it's just weird, the stuff that they decide to take down, which is ridiculous, but yeah. The good news is if you have any videos you want to put up at kratom real talk, you can put it up and it's allowed and in school. It actually makes it a lot easier to upload videos now and they just had a new feature this week for live stream live streaming inside the platform.

43:18 So now I can like host some private we could do some Q and as and stuff. I definitely have to bring you on for something like that. I I'm I'm just so excited with all the new features they have. So it is definitely a great place for people. Come, come, I'll have the link in in the description here. So you do a lot of advocating in the community, which is awesome. I love that. So tell us a bit about your advocacy. I mean, you, you, you have your women's group, you, you do a lot it. Have you gone out to speak like with legislators? Have you done like any other kind? I know you do it within your community, but what kind of advocacy, other advocacy work have you done? I haven't gotten a chance to go to Washington and travel as much because I have young kids and I'm here working a lot. I wish I could eventually.

44:08 I do want to definitely do that and I do plan on doing that. I also sponsor female athletes, professional female athletes, and it shows that professional people also take kratom because I know there's a stigma with Kratom and it shows that normal people, everyone takes it from athletes to your mom to your grandma. It's, it makes no difference who the person is. And getting it out there, especially with athletes has helped a lot because it's shown more people that you can use it to help and working out and things like that and other different areas of just, you know, from chronic pain, which is really important too.

44:48 So I do a lot with that. I do write blogs a lot. I have some on my website. I have the women's group, and then I also have X where I put information on my profile. X is pretty good. So I'm pretty good with putting information and links on there. So I try with those. I've written a lot of educational blogs and then I send those out to people and then in my emails to my customers, I always put educational tips and things like that. So I try to do as much as I can with educating people and letting people know about it and getting it out there further with, you know, helping others in sponsorships and things like that.

45:32 That's so awesome. You do a lot and it and it's great because the more we're able to help people, the better. This is for the community. So for those that are watching this right now or are tuning in, listening and they don't know how to get involved with any advocacy efforts, what would you tell them? Like how can they get involved? They can definitely get involved with the AKA, go to their website, there's a lot of information on there and just getting involved with what's going on in their States and what they're trying to do in different States and just putting the word out, telling their story I think is honestly the most important thing like going on here and just saying kratom has helped me because of this.

46:14 And just people hearing your story and the more stories we put out there that are positive and they're not, you know, the negative stories that the media I like to distort that aren't really true is really, really important. And we definitely need more of that for sure. So definitely people just talking about it to others and going on your podcast, going into your platform and just being honest about it is really important. Yeah, I know a lot of people are not comfortable talking about. Some people even say that they haven't told their family members because of stigma attached to it. This is a real shame. I understand. I totally get it. You know, when I was in pain management, there was a huge stigma talking about opiates.

46:54 You know, I didn't go around telling everybody broadcaster, hey, by the way, I take Oxycontin and Percocet. People would freak. Out right exactly. Because of stigma and but with freedom, I'm like, after a while when I started, I'm like, it's just a plant. I, I don't want to feel stigmatized or ashamed. And I just decided I'm I'm going to be open about it because it's not a big deal and, but, but it's what you're comfortable doing for sure. Yeah. Yeah, and if they want to get involved, the AKA has great resources too. They're always looking for people to help out. And they do need help. I know that for sure. So there's different avenues you can take if you don't want to be on something like this and you'd rather be more in the background or even writing your story and like sending it in or sending it in to the legislator.

47:42 Like this is how kratom that's important. These people need to read that and know that so. Yeah, and there's ways to do it anonymously too, for those who are not comfortable putting out their name or being in a video or a photo of them. You know, many times, like when the AKA puts out these notices, it's a matter of you tap the button, it's just a link, it'll take you somewhere, you put in your name, it'll just ask for some information, you put that in and there'll be a room for you to put your little testimony. And that I, what I always do is I just have like my little paragraph and I just save it on my computer so I can just copy and paste it every time. And you can just do a fake name of it. Like if you're not comfortable using your real name, I use my real name for all this. But for those that aren't comfortable, just come up with a way to do it where you're comfortable, where you can be anonymous, use a different name or, or do your first name, but not the last name.

48:31 Like, you know, do what works for you, but it's so important for legislators and people who, you know, makes these decisions on our behalf that they're aware of how you feel about it. And it really makes a difference. I just want our listeners to know because, like, I've been to Capitol Hill twice to speak with legislative AIDS staff members about kratom, and they're eager to hear our stories. They really are. This last earlier this year, this past April, I got to sit down with quite a few and they want to hear like how we're affected by all this and how we're using a plant instead of opioids to, to just live a better life. And, and they, we're, we're helping them understand what this is all about.

49:18 And if if too many of us are scared to speak out, then they're going to just keep making laws what they think are the is the right thing without understanding the full picture. Exactly. And then that's so important. Another thing I've done too, I also train jiu jitsu. I do competitions and I always bring my metrospect stuff and bring that and tell people. Even telling people about it is a good thing because a lot of us that do jiu jitsu get hurt. We're sore, it hurts, and it's something natural that we all can take that will help with training. So a lot of my training partners and people in that community know about it too. So it's good to introduce it into different communities that also could benefit from it too.

50:02 And that's also a good way to advocate for it and get it more mainstream so more people know about it, for sure. That's great. I just love all the advocacy work you do let's shift gears for a moment. What are your thoughts with 708, if you're comfortable talking about it, because it's been the big controversy all year. A lot's been going on with that. You know, the FDA is advising the DEA to make it schedule one. And to be clear, for those that don't ever listen to my full story when I talk about this, I'm not for prohibition, but I'm for regulation. They all think I want this scheduled one ban. It's like, no, but we need regulations. We need to not give them drug names for their marketing.

50:43 Like there's, there's so many things they could fix through regulation. What are your thoughts on 7? I agree with that and I think a lot of people are just confused the way that it's sold. It's sold in a lot of gas stations and they have no idea. They think it's regular natural kratom when it's a lot stronger than powder. And so they're taking a lot of it and it's not good and they're killing their tolerance and they just they don't know what they're taking. And the people selling it to them also don't know what they're selling. So that's the big problem is these people are educated of how to explain what it is. And I think that's the biggest problem with this. And it got kind of out of control because people didn't know what they were doing.

51:24 And then they took too much and a lot of people started getting sick from it because it was a really high amount, which makes sense. I always tell people less is better and, you know, to always start low. But I think education is really important and that they should have been better educated. And I think there was other ways they could have done it better where this wouldn't have happened. Even marketing it different without, because a lot of people thought it was just kratom and just it's not kratom, it's different than kratom and they don't get that. So the way it was marketed was a little, I think wrong and I think they should have had more information on it personally. So.

52:06 Yeah, I think if it just one so easily accessible to gas stations like smoke shops to the counter and you got to be, you know, depending on the state 21 and up or 18 and up to enter. Like that's the and I know a lot of smoke shops carry it, but having it in gas stations where is too easy for people to access. And and it's sitting right next to the five hour energy drink like there's and they're calling it drug names and putting the word Kratom on the package is so misleading. And for those that don't know, it's a semi synthetic made with one component of kratom that's forms and then naturally occurring when it the leaf dries. It's it's so misleading because a lot of people tell me they're just being told that the smoke shops is strong kratom. And it's not, it's ultra concentrated. It's it's completely different.

52:56 And it's usually sold in the tablets which you're supposed to break in half and take a little bit of it. And these people are just taking the whole tablet. Yeah, yeah, it's yeah. Because we're not reading what the packaging. Is, yeah. Well, when you see a tablet, what are you going to? Are you going to be like, oh, maybe I should cut in half or in quarters? No. Because I don't know how strong it is. So like it's just a little tablet and they don't understand that little tablet is very, very strong because of what it says on the package and it doesn't say what it should say on it. Honestly, you know, it's different. And it does hurt people like me and other kratom vendors because then they think it's all kratom and then all kratom is bad because it's super strong and it's going to make me sick.

53:41 And it's not and not the natural kratom is completely different than that. And I've, I've had to educate my customers, I've made videos on it and just telling people the difference and they really need to know the difference between natural kratom and then the the seven OH, like they need to know the difference and there's a big difference. So that's been a big thing too, I think is speaking out and telling people what the differences with that, because then the people that are against kratom think that it it's really bad now because it's and it's not. So it's a lot of more explaining, you know, so. Yeah, definitely. It is very frustrating, but also know there's plenty of people that are utilizing 708 and they tell me if they're using it very responsibly, special people in the chronic pain community. I think it's great that people have found that as an alternative to the opiates that they can no longer get access to.

54:33 So instead of going to the streets, they're they're using it very carefully. They, they've researched, they're, they're informed and that's great, but I think we still need regulations and it could be a. Lot more, a lot more, especially of how it's sold, what's on the package, the information there. There needs to be way more with that. I that's where I think that's where it all went wrong to. I agree with that. I don't have a problem with it, but I think there should be more information on it and it shouldn't just be that accessible on a shelf there an energy drink that you can just grab and you think it's like that in a pill, It's not. So people really need to be educated on it. Yeah, that's great advice. This is such an awesome conversation, Sarah, you, you, you know, you've been a long time consumer, huge advocate and also on the industry side.

55:21 So to wrap up, last question for you is, knowing everything you know now about kratom and you know a lot, what advice would you give someone who's just starting in their journey? Definitely dehydrated. It's a plant fiber and Mountain Dew is not water. Drink plain water or do like the Liquid IV if you would like more flavor and that also has electrolytes. It can dehydrate you. It is a plant that works better when you're hydrated to work through your body. That's the biggest thing I say with new people is they're like, oh, I took it with some Mountain Dew or Doctor Pepper and no, you have to take it with water. Water. That's really important, especially in the summer when you're more dehydrated or it's hot. And another thing is start low and then work your way up slowly and figure out what works for you. You're not going to take the same as me or as you. Everyone's different with how much they take. So that's really important.

56:17 And measure with a digital scale. Don't take any spoon from the kitchen. Don't do it and just throw it in a cup and mix it. Don't actually measure it. Put it on the scale, See how many, how much grams you have, you know, 2G whatever and then mix it. Don't do it where you have this big spoon and it's like 5-6 grams and then you're like, oh, I that was way too much. It made me sleepy. Well, you took the whole spoon, so that's a big thing to make sure you measure correctly. That's the three things I always say to people that's really important. Such great advice. Thank you so much Sarah for being here and sharing all your wisdom with us. Thank you for having me.