Ep 80: From Pills to Plants: Diana’s Path to Wellness with Kratom

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I was taking, like, lots of
acetaminophen, So that wasn't

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working.
And I was really in a desperate

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situation.
And I had walked past a comma

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bar a few times that was in our
neighborhood.

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And I'd heard rumors about this
tea.

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It was still very secretive.
You know, it was one of those,

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like, if, you know, you know,
kind of a thing.

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So I was like, let me see what
this is all about.

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So I ordered one of their hot
teas and I only drank half of

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it.
So I didn't really notice like a

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huge difference the first time,
but I I noticed I felt like I

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could sleep peacefully, like I
could actually really sleep for

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the first time in a long time.
So I went back and I got another

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tea and then that was what
pretty much turned my whole life

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around as far as like how I
viewed plant medicine.

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So I'm here with Diana, somebody
I met online, and I'm always

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looking for interesting stories
to share on this podcast.

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So Diana, thank you so much for
joining us today.

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I'm really looking forward to
learning more about you.

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So tell us a bit about yourself
and life before kratom.

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Oh OK, life before first.
First of all, thank you for

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having me.
I appreciate it.

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I'm a big fan of yours and it,
it warms my heart to see so many

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stories on a daily basis.
It's really, it's truly

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refreshing.
So before kratom, I was a

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chronic pain patient.
I have Crohn's disease and

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endometriosis, carpal tunnel,
chronic migraines, anxiety

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disorder, you name it.
I'm kidding, not you name it,

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but it, it was a lot of things.
So I was taking a lot of pills

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and I'm sure you've heard this
story so many times, but you

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know, I was taking pills to
counteract the consequences of

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the pills I was taking.
It was, you know, side effects,

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I should say, like, oh, this one
isn't working or this, this is

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making you too tired.
Take some Adderall to counteract

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that.
I, I wasn't on Adderall for very

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long at all.
Like I only took that for a very

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short bit, but I had a Doctor
Who would write me a

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prescription for anything, you
know, that was, she just would

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write me like every trip, every
visit, I should say it was a, a

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new handful of prescriptions.
So anyway, I was living in

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Maryland at the time that that
was happening.

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And this was pretty much in the
beginning of the opioid crisis.

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And we moved to Florida for a
little bit just to kind of get

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change of pace, you know, like,
I was still young.

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And I thought, like, oh, it was
a fun vacation spot.

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It'd be a fun place to live.
And it was for a while.

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But it was also a completely
different story down there,

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comparatively speaking, because
Maryland hadn't been really hit

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yet.
The doctors, when we left, the

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doctors were still refilling
prescriptions.

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You know, they would make you
come in more frequently and and

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they were becoming stricter
about who they were, you know,

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prescribing to.
But it wasn't like it was in

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Florida or South Florida where
we were specifically where there

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was a rehab on every corner.
Like we had more rehab centers

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than we had McDonald's in like a
7 mile radius.

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So that is all to say that I
went from having a Doctor Who

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was quick to write a script to
doctors that were like, why are

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you taking all of these
medications like and treating me

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like I was drug seeking.
So all of a sudden one day, the

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doctor that I had found that
would allow me to stay on like

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the minimum, the, the, the, the
most minimum dose, I should say,

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of pain medication.
And I was also taking Xanax for

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my anxiety.
She said we're not, we're not

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prescribing controlled
substances anymore because

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there's been a crackdown from
the DEA and we don't feel

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comfortable.
We had a patient who abused, you

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know, abused the prescriptions
of basically she just said we're

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not doing this anymore.
She didn't give me any kind of

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plan for titration, weaning off
of anything.

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It was just like, that's it.
So I was panicking and I went to

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Walgreens, CVS, all the places,
and I got everything over the

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counter I could think of, you
know, valerian roots.

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I was taking like lots of
acetaminophen.

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So that wasn't working.
And I was really in a desperate

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situation.
And I had walked past a comma

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bar a few times that was in our
neighborhood.

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And I'd heard rumors about this
tea.

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It was still very secretive.
You know, it was one of those

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like if you know, you know, kind
of a thing.

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So I was like, let me see what
this is all about.

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So I ordered one of their hot
teas and I only drank half of

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it.
So I didn't really notice like a

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huge difference the first time,
But I, I noticed, I felt like I

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could sleep peacefully, like I
could actually really sleep for

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the first time in a long time.
So I went back and I got another

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tea and then that was what
pretty much turned my whole life

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around as far as like how I
viewed plant medicine.

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And ever since then I have only
had to take like right now I'm

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on a prescription for my blood
pressure.

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But comparatively speaking, I'm
I'm on practically nothing from

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what I was on before
pharmaceutically.

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I take all plant medicine now as
much as possible and have been

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for over a decade.
So that was a nice.

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Wow, how many medications were
you on?

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You know, prior to the Pava bar.
Well, if I was on all of the

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ones that she wanted me to be
on, it would have been like a

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dozen.
But I didn't fill all of the

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prescriptions because it was
getting to the point.

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Like, I was so dazed and
confused.

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You know, I tell people all the
time I was much higher when I

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was taking legal drugs than I
ever was with cannabis or, you

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know, anything that is was
illegal in South Florida at the

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time.
And I know Kratom's not illegal,

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but it's definitely a hot button
topic.

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You know, some places it is
right, unfortunately, and, and

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at the time it was like still
being in Florida especially

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there were a lot of attempts at
the end.

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So, but when I was taking the
pain medications, I was taking

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like a very low dose of like a
Percocet or I would take like

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Vicoprofen, like the Vicodin and
ibuprofen.

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And then I had a very low dose
of opioid.

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It was just like oxycodone.
Oxycodone, I think it was, yeah,

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like 5 milligrams.
But then for my anxiety, it was

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like always some she was always
giving me additional things for

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that, like Xanax.
She kept increasing the dosage

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and the more it increased, the
worse my anxiety got.

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And that was the thing I
realized from kratom was that or

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kratom is that it really helped
with my anxiety as well, in

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addition to the pain relief.
So I didn't have to take that

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anymore.
I mean, I still supplement with

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a lot of other types of plant
medicine, but I feel like they

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go hand in hand, You know, they
they work very well with

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creative so.
That's what so many people say.

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I've interviewed so many people
for this podcast and I hear

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these same kind of stories
echoed in and almost all of them

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is, you know, they started
kratom for their pain issues or

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to help curb addiction to to St.
drugs.

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But in the process, it's like
this really helps my anxiety.

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I don't even need my meds for
that anymore.

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Like people weren't expecting
these other very positive side

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effects, which is just
phenomenal.

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It says so much about whole leaf
kratom powder.

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Right, 100%.
And I think also a lot of the

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medicines I was taking for my
Crohn's disease, like I, I don't

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even know what you would call
them, but they made my life so

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much worse, you know, and I
think when I realized how to

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take kratom correctly,
responsibly, I realized it did

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help with a lot of my gut issues
as well.

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If I took it the right way, you
know, and not on an empty

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stomach, it also helped because
I used to have a lot of ulcers,

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and now they're pretty much all
gone.

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So I have incredible any.
Like, the drugs they wanted me

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to be on were the kind that I
couldn't leave town without

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telling my doctor about it
because my white blood cell

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count could go so low that it
could.

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Yeah, that kind of a thing.
Wow.

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That's why, you know, it's
interesting how many people I've

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talked to that suffer from
Crohn's have had all kinds of

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issues with Crohn's.
And then with kratom, they're

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like, it's, it's like I don't
have Crohn's anymore.

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That just seems to be a really
common one that helps is is with

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people with Crohn's.
Yeah, it really does.

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I mean, a lot of people I know
who aren't on any type of plant

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medicine, who manage their
Crohn's with pharmaceuticals,

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they don't have the type of
freedom I feel I have now.

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Like I said, I don't.
I don't feel like I'm tied to

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the doctor's office anymore and
that can kind of piss off some

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of the GI doctors.
I'll tell you, they don't really

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like to consider kratom when it
comes to a treatment, which is

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wild to me because I, I don't
understand being in that type of

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service, you know, that kind of
type of industry and not wanting

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to know what is making my
patients so much better.

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Right, right.
So so your your GI doctor is not

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on board with kratom?
None of, I mean, right now I I'm

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about to see a new one.
But in Florida, no, definitely

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not.
They wouldn't even write it on

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as what I was taking.
They put it under illicit drugs,

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which was like it.
It's not even illegal.

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It's not, Yeah.
That's crazy.

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So it's federally legal.
It's not banned in Florida so

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that's crazy.
But there was also a lot of

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propaganda going around at the
time.

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And I know right now we're back
into that kind of swing of

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things, but especially back
then, there wasn't, there

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weren't as many people willing
to be public advocates as there

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are.
Right.

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I, you know, the public, people
become public advocating when

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there's when it's under threat.
And Florida was under threat

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earlier this year.
It was scary how close it got to

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be in ban the the entire plant,
kratom plant being banned and on

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my kratom gals live stream, you
know, we we monitor and watch a

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lot of different hearings around
the country with these ban

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bills.
And I clearly remember the

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Florida ones.
We watched some of those

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hearings and those Florida
legislators, they were so anti

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kratom and the way they went.
But the kratom community came

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out to speak.
I mean, there were so many

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people there, lots of Kava bar
owners, lots of kratom vendors

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and manufacturers and tons of
consumers turned advocates.

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And the legislators were like,
so like glaring at them and

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trying to make everybody hurry
up.

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Like, like, he didn't want his
time wasted because it was

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obviously it already made-up
their mind that they wanted it

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banned.
But luckily, the ban did not go

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through.
It didn't happen.

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It was very close, though.
And it's really important for

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all kratom consumers to be very
aware that these exist around

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the country.
And I always suggest people get

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on the e-mail list with the
American KREM Association, go to

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protectkratom.org.
I'll put the link in the show

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notes here, but I was lucky and
discovered the AKA early on in

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my kratom journey.
And I, you know, I signed up for

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their newsletter and it's like I
couldn't believe how often these

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emails would go out about, oh,
this state might want to is

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trying to ban it and go fill out
this form and share your

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testimony.
I'm like, but I don't live

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there.
It's like it was OK, like this

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is good to know.
Like, you know, it's like I kind

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of turned into an advocate
without really trying to, but

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it's just all about awareness.
And if people aren't aware that

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these things happen, but also is
a reminder too.

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I feel so bad for all the people
in Louisiana because I guarantee

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you right now with their ban
that went into effect August

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1st, there are people right now
that have plenty of kratom.

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They bought, you know, they buy
it, they're good for a while,

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have no idea that it became
banned, fed like banned in the

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whole state, all of it,
including the powder.

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And they're going to like go to
their smoke shop or they're

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going to go order online and
it's going to be sorry, we can't

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00:13:16,680 --> 00:13:18,240
sell it to you.
And they're going to be like,

222
00:13:18,240 --> 00:13:20,960
what?
But it's but not everybody knows

223
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,680
that these things go on and it's
so sad.

224
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:29,080
Well, to that .1 of the reasons
I can tell you for sure, because

225
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,560
I was reporting on it at the
time that these politicians

226
00:13:32,560 --> 00:13:36,240
don't want kratom to be legal is
because a lot of them were

227
00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:40,040
getting paid by the companies
that tested the urinalysis or

228
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:42,960
that did the urinalysis for a
lot of these rehabs.

229
00:13:43,320 --> 00:13:46,800
And at the time when we were
living there, I I had a lot of

230
00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,080
friends who were in these
programs and they would put a

231
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:54,360
ban on kratom if you were a
patient there, But then they

232
00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:59,280
would also hire people to
basically try to get you back on

233
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,360
kratom like or other drugs,
other things, other substances

234
00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:07,440
in order for you to go back.
Like I found there was a whole

235
00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:11,360
ring basically going on where it
was like the people that owned

236
00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:15,760
the rehabs and not all of them
obviously, but there was quite a

237
00:14:15,760 --> 00:14:20,720
few where people were basically
these owners of these rehabs are

238
00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:24,600
setting up people for failure so
that they could keep getting the

239
00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:30,000
urinalysis is done and you know,
it was and have them coming back

240
00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:31,920
because they were making so much
money.

241
00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:36,040
I mean, the governor at the
time, his wife owned a

242
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:40,520
urinalysis company or she had
ownership in it, I should say.

243
00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:44,560
That's just wrong on so many
levels.

244
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:45,680
You.
Know yeah, yeah.

245
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,240
And so, I mean, it's like it
sounds, I'm sure a little

246
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:51,920
conspiracy theorist theorist,
but it's, it's true.

247
00:14:51,920 --> 00:14:55,320
It's because kratom threatens
the Pharmaceutical industry.

248
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:59,160
So.
Hardcore, but also the people.

249
00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:01,000
That are in it for nefarious
reasons.

250
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,240
It threatens them the most, you
know.

251
00:15:04,640 --> 00:15:08,760
Oh God, that's crazy stuff you
uncovered.

252
00:15:09,080 --> 00:15:11,520
But, but none of it ever
surprises me anymore.

253
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:15,000
All these years of advocating,
it's like, it's like, I don't

254
00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:16,560
like there'll be some crazy
thing.

255
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,480
It's like, well, nothing's going
to top that.

256
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:22,080
Like with the Florida thing, I'm
like, you know, everybody was

257
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:24,160
supposed to get like 3 minutes
to come talk.

258
00:15:24,160 --> 00:15:26,600
Then the guy changed it to two
minutes and then it was like 30

259
00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:28,600
seconds.
And it's like, and the, and the

260
00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,600
way he cleared, I'm like, I
thought, I think I've seen it

261
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:33,240
all.
Like this is the worst I've ever

262
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:34,760
seen.
You know of something.

263
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,280
And then Texas, where I live,
they tried doing a ban, a

264
00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:41,760
statewide ban.
And the senator that brought the

265
00:15:41,760 --> 00:15:46,400
bill to the floor says on record
at the beginning, well, I think

266
00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,840
Ukrainian powder is fine, but
we're just going to ban it all

267
00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,480
because we want it all gone.
All of except because they're

268
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:53,800
really pushing the 708 that they
wanted to ban.

269
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:56,400
But he says we know the powder
is fine.

270
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,640
I don't remember his exact
words, but basically he's saying

271
00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,360
he knows Powder is fine, but
let's just ban it all.

272
00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:05,120
And it's like, Oh my God, I
thought Florida was bad.

273
00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:09,200
What the heck is this?
Like, yeah, it powder's fine,

274
00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,520
but we're banning it.
We we want it gone.

275
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,360
I think that the war on drugs
has never really ended.

276
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,640
And I think it's kind of like
been rebooted in the last few

277
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,200
years.
And I think that kratom is

278
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,320
definitely one of the biggest
targets for that.

279
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,040
Unfortunately, even though it's
not a drug, it's a plant.

280
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,960
But again, it threatens so many
industries.

281
00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,760
And you know, once you follow
the money, you can see where

282
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:38,560
where the real inspiration is.
And also it's an easy way to

283
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,120
campaign off of something right,
like the, the fear mongering

284
00:16:42,120 --> 00:16:45,920
headlines, because that's what I
saw in Florida, the one senator

285
00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:49,200
who really, really rallied
against kratom without knowing

286
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,200
anything about it.
And she, she had a lot of

287
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:57,200
constituents write in and tell
her these stories about how it

288
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,280
saved their lives.
And, you know, there was there

289
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:03,320
was evidence that this person's
death that she was using as like

290
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,119
her, you know, her launch
against kratom.

291
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:11,319
It wasn't just kratom in his
system as per usual.

292
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,119
And it wasn't whole leaf kratom
that was in his system.

293
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:19,200
So, you know, but she didn't
want to tell the whole story

294
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,319
because it was a lot easier to
run on that fear mongering

295
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:25,920
campaign.
And it worked for her.

296
00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:29,280
So unfortunately, I think that
those are two things that really

297
00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:32,840
work against us as advocates.
And especially when there are so

298
00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,200
many headlines.
Like the first time I ever wrote

299
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,480
about kratom, it was for Dame
magazine, and it's a feminist

300
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,080
independent journal.
And so I felt really comfortable

301
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:47,600
telling the truth through them,
but they still made me include

302
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,760
certain things I didn't want to
because at the time, there was

303
00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:53,240
really no research to prove
otherwise.

304
00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:58,160
And even now, as you know, the
research is so limited.

305
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:03,240
But the headline she chose to
use really upset a lot of kratom

306
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:06,360
advocates, even the ones I had
interviewed for the piece,

307
00:18:06,720 --> 00:18:12,360
because it was something like,
is Kratom a life saving drug?

308
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:16,320
Or is it is it a hallucinogenic?
Like it was something like that.

309
00:18:16,320 --> 00:18:19,400
Like it was a question like is
it dangerous or is it safe

310
00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,280
essentially?
But it was the way they worded

311
00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,000
it that made people very upset.
And I was like, just read the

312
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,240
article please.
But so many people just go off

313
00:18:29,240 --> 00:18:31,520
of the headline.
They don't they don't want to

314
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,160
see any more.
And that works kind of

315
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:36,800
negatively on both sides of the
fence, right?

316
00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:38,760
Like the people that are pro and
anti.

317
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,240
So yeah.
Yeah, so I mean, sadly, we're in

318
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:46,360
a world where it's like the
click bait thing, you know, the

319
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,560
the people that publish stuff
like that, they want, they want

320
00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:51,760
the clicks.
And you got to have a headline

321
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,640
that attracts attention.
And it's almost always something

322
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:57,560
super negative because what why
would people want to click and

323
00:18:57,560 --> 00:18:59,600
go read it when it's something
positive and good?

324
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,720
You know, they want to hear that
scary thing that gets them to

325
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,680
push the button.
And it's, it's a real shame

326
00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,720
because Kratom has helped
millions of people and it's such

327
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,400
a great thing, a great tool for
us to have in our toolbox when

328
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:15,520
we suffer from chronic pain and
don't want to take opiates

329
00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,120
anymore or we can't get access
to them anymore.

330
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,600
And then for other ailments.
And then just some people just

331
00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,480
like that instead of their
morning coffee, they just prefer

332
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:28,200
a cup of kratom tea and get that
nice energy boost.

333
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,280
It's like, you know, we're all
grown adults, let's have access

334
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,800
to a plant.
It's not a big deal, right?

335
00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,560
This, this whole conversation is
so fascinating, Dana.

336
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:42,200
I'm really loving it.
Let's go back a bit to when you

337
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:46,000
first found, discovered kratom.
So when all this was happening

338
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:50,600
in your life and with the meds
and stuff with the doctor, what,

339
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:51,560
what year was that?
Like?

340
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,160
How long ago was all that?
I want to say that it was about

341
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,840
2009.
It's been over a decade.

342
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:02,520
It was a little bit like 2009,
2010.

343
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:06,560
I'd say so.
So there wasn't much information

344
00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,920
about kratom back then.
So like, so really you said you

345
00:20:09,920 --> 00:20:12,840
saw the Kava bar.
There were Kava bars back then

346
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:15,960
that far back.
Yes and and so it actually

347
00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,880
became like my whole like a lot
of my life, like it was

348
00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,800
professional and personal.
So I, I know I'm supposed to be

349
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,160
sharing my personal story with
it, but it all kind of melded

350
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:27,640
together because we found this
Kaaba bar.

351
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,600
And then it was such a great
sense of community.

352
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,840
And especially back then because
like I said, you know, kratom

353
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:37,400
wasn't really discussed, but
Kaaba was, was also not

354
00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,080
discussed.
You know, people are like, what

355
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,920
are you?
What is this place?

356
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:45,800
And so we became like really
involved in that community very

357
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,120
quickly.
And my husband actually became a

358
00:20:48,120 --> 00:20:51,960
manager of the bar.
And then I, being a writer,

359
00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:56,000
decided I was going to start
dedicating my my writing

360
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,640
practice to writing about kratom
as much as possible.

361
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,320
But like I said before, it
really changed my whole way of

362
00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:05,320
thinking about all plant
medicine.

363
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,640
So I started writing about
cannabis as well because it

364
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,840
wasn't legal in Florida yet.
While still not completely legal

365
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,880
in Florida, but they were voting
for a medical program.

366
00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:23,880
So that became my focus and I
quickly launched a cannabis

367
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,280
podcast.
And I found the odd thing I

368
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,960
found when I when I started this
podcast was that people who were

369
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,640
in the cannabis space had very
hot takes on kratom, even though

370
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:37,720
they had no idea what they were
talking about.

371
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,080
And I realized that kratom was
actually more controversial than

372
00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:44,640
cannabis.
It's like, why?

373
00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:50,160
That's so bizarre.
Yeah, that's wow.

374
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,400
But I was able to get.
My family members to try it, you

375
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:56,400
know, I was able to get friends
like on a personal level, I was

376
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:01,080
just like anybody who would
listen to me, you know, tell

377
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,400
them about how much it could
change your life.

378
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:09,560
And so, you know, I still do
that, but but it was much more

379
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,120
difficult back then.
There were like secret Facebook

380
00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:15,120
groups you mentioned, AKA
earlier.

381
00:22:15,120 --> 00:22:19,800
I was, I was totally involved in
what they were doing in the very

382
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:22,120
early days when there was just
like a few people.

383
00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:28,640
So, you know, I, I, I got really
excited It, it changed the way I

384
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:33,840
viewed activism as well.
So yeah, I'm not sure what I was

385
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,760
answering there, but if I
answered anything.

386
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,800
This is just so interesting
because you know, you started

387
00:22:40,800 --> 00:22:44,200
using kratom way back before
most people had ever heard of

388
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,240
it.
I, I'm sure there was very

389
00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:50,440
little information online, AKA,
you know, you were part of that

390
00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,400
movement very early on.
So that was all before the big

391
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:59,400
national ban threat in 2016 And,
and we always love hearing about

392
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:02,040
that because so many of us
didn't even discover kratom

393
00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:05,320
until after that.
So what was what we tell us

394
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:07,360
about that era?
Because we've heard people say

395
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:10,000
it was a very scary time.
It happened really fast.

396
00:23:10,360 --> 00:23:13,920
Everybody freaked out and very
quickly people spoke up and

397
00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,320
spoke out.
Absolutely.

398
00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:21,720
And during that time, I, I was
like trying to tell as many

399
00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,680
people as I could, but I also
realized that I needed to start

400
00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:28,040
like including that on the
podcast, even though we were

401
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,080
talking about cannabis, I'm
like, we need to talk about.

402
00:23:30,440 --> 00:23:33,760
Like, it freaked me out because
I always kind of thought I would

403
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,280
still have access to it as long
as I lived in certain states,

404
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:42,320
you know, And then I realized
places like Vermont were banning

405
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,160
it.
And I'm just like, this is

406
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,000
terrifying.
I'm still terrified, you know, I

407
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,600
still am terrified that it could
happen and in the near future

408
00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:55,080
because I don't know what I
would do, honestly.

409
00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:00,920
And, and so I, I, I've tried to
write my story in, in as many

410
00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,240
ways as I possibly can.
Unfortunately, some of the

411
00:24:04,240 --> 00:24:07,680
publications have gone out of
business or gone, you know,

412
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:13,480
become defunct.
So I have to go in the Wayback

413
00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:16,800
Machine to, to capture some of
it and some of it's just gone,

414
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,960
unfortunately.
But I had people reach out to me

415
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,480
and like, how do I do more about
this?

416
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:28,520
You know, and obviously there's
no perfect advocacy.

417
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:34,080
You know, I, I think that we
saying AKA like I support what

418
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,280
they're doing, but I'm not
saying that I'm like 100% AKA is

419
00:24:37,280 --> 00:24:39,160
the only option.
You know, there, there are

420
00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,040
people like you, you know,
people like Christopher, there

421
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,080
are so many people now that are
speaking out.

422
00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,920
And so I tried to call attention
to that as much as I can.

423
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:51,960
Yeah, which is important.
Yeah, it's scary.

424
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,560
It is scary.
It's scary that like the

425
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:58,080
government can just decide at
any time, like let's just make

426
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,880
this so nobody can have access
and, and you know the whole 70 H

427
00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:04,920
thing and we can definitely talk
a little bit about 70 H to see

428
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,760
what your thoughts are.
You know, all of a sudden out of

429
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,400
nowhere, the FDA comes out
recently and they're like we're

430
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:17,360
banning 70 H products affect.
I mean, well, they're requesting

431
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:19,800
the DE, the DEA has to be the
one to do it, but they're

432
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,720
requesting the DEA do it and we
haven't heard nothing from the

433
00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:26,520
DEA.
And while I do not consume 70 H,

434
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:29,080
I've had no need to because
because kratom holy powder works

435
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:32,120
amazing for my chronic pain and
I get enough relief from it that

436
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:35,640
I don't need a stronger.
I don't need, you know, to

437
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,920
necessarily be using the
extractor 70 H.

438
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,000
And I have heard from a lot of
people that took 70 without

439
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,040
knowing what it was got
addicted.

440
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:48,520
There's a lot of really sad
stories of that smoke shops

441
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,520
giving away free samples and
really pushing it on people and

442
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,280
people that were not suspecting
of what it was.

443
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:59,000
But then there's also a whole
group of people in the pain

444
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:00,800
community that have been
abandoned.

445
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,120
And I understand that well
because I was abandoned by pain

446
00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:07,760
management and they found 70 H
and they didn't have to go to

447
00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,080
the streets and they're using it
responsibly.

448
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:11,720
They're not using a crazy
amount.

449
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,680
And all of them said, I've
researched it, I understand what

450
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:18,240
I'm taking and I get it and I'm
but now they're being demonized.

451
00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,120
And so it's just interesting how
the 70 H and Kramer community is

452
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,080
so divided.
I just don't like how those 70 H

453
00:26:26,080 --> 00:26:30,520
manufacturers have been doing
things very shady, calling these

454
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,080
these products different drug
names, which is just wrong.

455
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:36,720
Having it in convenience stores,
that's wrong.

456
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:40,440
You know, they're doing so many
things that there's no surprise

457
00:26:40,440 --> 00:26:42,440
that the government wants to ban
it.

458
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:46,200
But if they make it a schedule
one, then you can't research it

459
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,880
and that's not right either.
So it's just we're in a crazy

460
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:51,920
time right now with the whole 7
OH thing.

461
00:26:51,920 --> 00:26:53,200
I'm just trying to educate
people.

462
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:56,200
I just put out lots of videos of
like here's whole leaf Creighton

463
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,400
powder.
Here's what 7 OH is they're two

464
00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,920
very different things.
Educate yourself and understand.

465
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:04,000
But what's your take on that
right now with what's going on?

466
00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,120
I mean, I think you just hit the
nail on the head with education.

467
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:10,400
I think that the fact that
people like you and I try very

468
00:27:10,400 --> 00:27:15,000
hard to educate, I mean, you're
doing a lot more than I am with

469
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,240
creation education right now.
But, but basically with all of

470
00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,200
these restrictions that we face
on social media and all these

471
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,040
other weird things that we come
across like with our newsletters

472
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,160
and our e-mail addresses being
blocked and things like that.

473
00:27:30,680 --> 00:27:35,880
It, I know it's by design, but
it makes it so much more

474
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:38,560
difficult for people to be
informed about what they're

475
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:42,040
purchasing.
I come from everything with a

476
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:45,440
harm reductive standpoint.
Like I look at it through a harm

477
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:49,640
reduction lens.
So like you said, if someone, if

478
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:53,160
they're desperate and that is a
safer option for them, then it

479
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:56,240
should be available to them.
But more importantly, the

480
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,560
education needs to be available
to them.

481
00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,880
And that education is so stunted
because we have all these fear

482
00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:09,760
mongering, misinformed articles,
underreported pieces floating

483
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:12,520
around.
People are reacting to the

484
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,200
reactions on social media
instead of finding out what

485
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:21,120
they're reacting to.
And I mean, they're coming up

486
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,320
with these completely unhinged
theories.

487
00:28:24,320 --> 00:28:27,800
I responded to 1 the other day
where someone was talking about

488
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:34,280
them the something about 911 and
kratom being on a on the plane.

489
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:35,400
I'm like what?
Is.

490
00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:42,120
What I mean, it's going so and
it's like, how do you even find

491
00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:45,760
a, a meeting place with that
type of it's not even logic.

492
00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:51,120
It's just complete bonkers
bananas like delusion, you know,

493
00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:57,000
and it's like, the reality is
you see people like me who come

494
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:02,240
from a family of, of substance
use disorders and addictive

495
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:07,240
personalities who can say I've
been doing this for over a

496
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,960
decade now.
You know, I, I stopped taking it

497
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,520
the entire length of my
pregnancy without an issue and

498
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,040
even a little bit after that.
So like for the better part of a

499
00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:22,880
year, I didn't even use it and I
was fine, you know, and before

500
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:27,680
this, I was counting the hours,
the minutes, just to have worse

501
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,960
pain.
I don't have rebound pain with

502
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,720
Kratom like I did with
pharmaceuticals, you know, and I

503
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,040
don't get treated like like I'm
seeking something that I

504
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:42,640
shouldn't be seeking when all
I'm seeking is relief by a

505
00:29:42,640 --> 00:29:44,840
medical professional.
I mean, they might not take it

506
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,720
seriously, but at least they're
not treating me like I'm trying

507
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,920
to, you know, get one over on
them either anymore.

508
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:56,400
So seeing these examples, if
that's not enough for you, then

509
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,760
like, I don't know what else can
be enough for you to understand

510
00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:03,040
that this is completely safe if
you use it in a Safeway.

511
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:10,840
But, and like I said, the lack
of education times, our

512
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:19,120
shortened attention spans, you
know, equals where we're at

513
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:21,640
right now, You know,
unfortunately.

514
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:25,280
You say it so perfectly though.
If it's if you're using it safe,

515
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:28,320
it's safe to use.
Like, you know, It has so much

516
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:32,680
to do with being a responsible
consumer and understanding what

517
00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:37,720
you're consuming, but also the
fact that you stopped for over a

518
00:30:37,720 --> 00:30:42,320
year during your pregnancy and
the time after and you had no

519
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:44,080
issues.
Because so many people say, oh,

520
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,680
kratom gave me the worst, worst
withdrawals than getting off of

521
00:30:47,680 --> 00:30:50,400
fentanyl or heroin.
And it's like, well, a lot of

522
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,640
people say they had no issues
getting off of it.

523
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,560
Yeah.
Plus, people don't understand.

524
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:59,320
I'm generalizing, but a lot of
people misunderstand the

525
00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,720
difference between addiction and
physical dependence.

526
00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:06,920
They're two separate things.
If your body is physically

527
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,680
depending dependent on pain
relief and it's become used to

528
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:14,720
pain relief, you're going to
have some type of symptoms if

529
00:31:14,720 --> 00:31:17,560
you just automatically stop that
train, you know?

530
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,680
And you can become addicted to
anything like.

531
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,720
Yes, there's there's so many
things we buy that don't require

532
00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:31,400
a prescription.
We can have a dependent

533
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,960
dependency to an addiction to
caffeine is such a great

534
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,560
example.
And I know the anti kratin

535
00:31:36,560 --> 00:31:38,840
people hate when we use caffeine
because they just they can't

536
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,280
believe it's true.
OK, so I'm not a coffee drinker,

537
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,320
so like I don't ever get
caffeine that way.

538
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,280
But I tell you what I like this
caffeine is a neuro gum.

539
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,680
That neuro gum is amazing.
It has natural caffeine in it.

540
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,560
It has Alfini in it.
You know that's been like huge

541
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:56,360
on TikTok like about a year ago.
You saw this neuro gum

542
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:00,040
everywhere.
So so one of my kratom advocate

543
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:02,920
friends had made a video about
it a while back and she said

544
00:32:03,160 --> 00:32:05,200
this really, you know, like I
saw the hype.

545
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,960
Let me try for myself.
She said this is great tasting

546
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:12,760
gum and it really is good, like
a good caffeine boost in a clean

547
00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:14,880
way.
I'm like, that sounds appealing

548
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:16,760
to me.
And I love my neuro gum.

549
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,920
I chew it all the time.
I don't overdo it.

550
00:32:19,240 --> 00:32:21,720
I research, I understand what
I'm consuming.

551
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:26,120
I love it has Elfini in it and
there are some days where it's

552
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,280
like I wake up and I go, I
really need that neuro gum.

553
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:32,840
So I cut so I feel like I have a
little tiny addiction to it.

554
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:35,200
Not bad.
It's not clouding my judgement,

555
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:39,360
but it's like I'm I'm telling
myself, I know I'll feel better

556
00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,360
if I go chew piece my piece of
gum when I first get up because

557
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:44,760
I'm a little sluggish and it
does it.

558
00:32:45,040 --> 00:32:47,480
But how is that different from
the person that wakes up

559
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,280
sluggish and says I need my cup
of coffee?

560
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,240
It's it's the same thing.
And of course I'm going to have

561
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:54,680
dependency.
We get dependency to caffeine

562
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,480
when I do stop caffeine, whether
it's been with sodas or with my

563
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,760
gum.
Yeah, mine.

564
00:33:00,760 --> 00:33:03,920
Is main even like I'm going to?
Do it.

565
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:06,080
Yeah, mine.
'S main mushrooms like I didn't

566
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,600
I, I take that as often as I can
and I didn't realize that it

567
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,320
could cause you to have a
headache if you didn't take it

568
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,560
If you take it every day and
then you don't take it a day,

569
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:18,880
you can get a headache from it.
So, you know, there's things

570
00:33:18,880 --> 00:33:21,480
like when you do a little bit of
research and you find out like,

571
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:25,720
oh, that's why that's happening.
You know, instead of just being

572
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,160
like, oh, it's bad.
I'm not taking it anymore.

573
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,960
Like, no, it does provide,
provide all these benefits.

574
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:35,080
It just you need to also be
aware that these are the side

575
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:36,600
effects.
I mean, there's side effects to

576
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:39,640
everything.
Exactly, and it doesn't mean

577
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,360
it's a bad thing to demonize.
So why is it that nobody is

578
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:47,840
demonizing the caffeine and
coffee or in neurogum but

579
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,400
they're demonizing a plant
called kratom?

580
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,360
It makes these people just don't
make sense with their logic on

581
00:33:54,360 --> 00:33:56,920
this.
And not to say some people don't

582
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:02,240
have bad issues when they stop,
you know, but but like you said,

583
00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,680
lion's mean, you see, I've been
using lion's mane powder for

584
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:06,440
quite a while.
I didn't know if I stopped

585
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,000
taking it that I could
potentially have something like

586
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:10,920
that.
I have taken breaks where I've

587
00:34:10,920 --> 00:34:12,960
where I've stopped and I had no
issues.

588
00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:14,280
I didn't, I didn't get any
headaches.

589
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:16,920
But every, our bodies are all
different and we're going to all

590
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,840
react to things differently.
I think the bottom line is

591
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:22,320
people need to educate
themselves.

592
00:34:22,320 --> 00:34:25,679
And so many times when people
talk about an addiction to 70 H

593
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,800
or you, and I remember just a
few years ago it was an

594
00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,639
addiction to kratom extracts,
right?

595
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,639
We don't hear about that anymore
because now it's just a 70 H.

596
00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:38,679
But almost always with the
people that complain of this,

597
00:34:38,679 --> 00:34:41,080
it's like they almost always
say, well, I didn't even know

598
00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:42,440
what I was taking.
I'm like, well, why didn't you

599
00:34:42,440 --> 00:34:45,120
research to see?
Even when I go to the doctor and

600
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:49,239
they want to prescribe a new
prescription, I'll go get that

601
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,080
filled, but before I put it in
my body, I'm going to still go

602
00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:55,679
and do my research.
I'm going to go see, does this

603
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:57,320
interact with anything else I
take?

604
00:34:57,760 --> 00:35:01,000
That's me being a grown adult
doing an adult thing.

605
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,800
But people are like, oh, the
doctor gave me this.

606
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,440
I'm just going to pop it because
they said to.

607
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:10,000
It's like, OK, but you know, it
doesn't hurt to research and

608
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,920
understand.
Like that I got him into Kava

609
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:17,080
and kratom, but he wouldn't
even, I'm like, you can't drink

610
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,160
alcohol and drink Hob at the
same time.

611
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:21,320
Oh, I'll be fine.
Whatever, you know.

612
00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:24,280
And he's just the type that'll
take whatever you have.

613
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,640
Like he doesn't.
And if you say, oh, it's like 2,

614
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:30,240
you're supposed to take two.
He'll grab a handful and take

615
00:35:30,240 --> 00:35:33,240
them like no.
And he's much older than I am

616
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,440
and he still does it.
I, I don't know why, but it's,

617
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:42,000
this is how he rolls.
And I'm like, OK, I mean,

618
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:44,160
whatever, you're still alive.
So that's good.

619
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:48,840
But I'm.
Oh, wow.

620
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:51,680
Well, you know, everybody's
their own person and they, you

621
00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,520
know, when we're talking about
adults, you know, we have the

622
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:59,120
rights to, to, to do things and
is, is ridiculous when the

623
00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,120
government wants to put that
kind of control on like what can

624
00:36:02,120 --> 00:36:04,720
go in your body.
But then again, for those of us

625
00:36:04,720 --> 00:36:08,040
that, you know, were in pain
management years ago, they, they

626
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:09,600
were always putting
restrictions.

627
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:11,560
The government was always
restricting the amount of

628
00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:13,520
opiates the doctors could
prescribe.

629
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:17,720
Insurance company dictating what
medications you can take that

630
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:19,680
they'll cover.
I mean, I went through lots of

631
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,880
that where they're telling the
doctor, no, you can't prescribe

632
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,640
this, that you're the doctor and
you're the expert.

633
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:28,040
But we know you gotta give her
this other medication instead.

634
00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,280
He's like, but this doesn't work
on her.

635
00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:31,320
Too bad.
We're only paying for this one.

636
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:35,480
So give this this one I it
boggles my I mean, that'd be

637
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,680
like a whole another podcast.
I guess we should do sometime

638
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:39,920
because it's like.
Humanizing now you know I.

639
00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,600
Don't understand that
politicians and and healthcare

640
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,960
companies that no healthcare
executives, that none of these

641
00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:48,760
are medical professionals, none
of them.

642
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,680
I mean, maybe a few politicians,
but you know, their judgement is

643
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,600
always out the window.
I that's what I always see is

644
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,600
why can't it always be what's in
the best interest of the person?

645
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:01,280
And the doctors are, are doctors
are getting worse, though.

646
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:03,760
I mean, it's, it's turned into a
whole corporate thing again.

647
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:05,080
That'd be like a whole another
podcast.

648
00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,520
But it's just we're in such a
crazy time, you know, with

649
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,920
politicians and insurance
companies dictating our, our

650
00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:16,280
health and well-being.
Oh absolutely.

651
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,360
I think that the people that
don't really want to understand

652
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:23,920
kratom are people that don't
have to because they don't have

653
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,720
to go to the doctor every other
week or every week.

654
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:30,760
They don't have to be, you know,
put through that whole thing

655
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:33,480
where you just, we just spoke of
where you have to fill out all

656
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:38,200
this extra paperwork or the
dehumanizing experience of

657
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,520
having your doctor just like
look right through you and not

658
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:45,320
really hear what you're saying.
And those people are very lucky,

659
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:49,440
but I don't understand why they
don't want the access for the

660
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,960
people in their lives who need
it.

661
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,320
And two, won't even open up
their minds to like see why and

662
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:59,400
just have a very short
conversation, just a little,

663
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:01,160
like let's just have a back and
forth.

664
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:02,760
And you understand this a
little.

665
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:04,520
You don't have to know
everything about it.

666
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,400
You know, a lot of people tell
me when I try to, you know, the

667
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:12,200
people that are like hesitant to
understand it, they are like,

668
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:14,040
why do you care if you don't get
high off of it?

669
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:16,880
Like they, they don't understand
being this passionate about

670
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:18,480
something that you don't get
high off of.

671
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:25,800
And I don't understand that
mentality because it's like you

672
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,800
just want to be living your life
every day and have the highest

673
00:38:29,800 --> 00:38:32,560
quality of life.
You're not trying to be high,

674
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,200
you know, you just want to have
the highest quality you you can

675
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,560
be and and that's not enough.
Wow.

676
00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:42,440
And then I mean, it's kind of
hooky to say, well, I'm high on

677
00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:44,520
life.
I mean, that's like, I mean, but

678
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,000
that's really what it is.
I mean, my all this advocacy,

679
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,000
all this stuff and educate is
because I'm high on life, even

680
00:38:50,000 --> 00:38:52,600
though it's not really the way
I, I describe it because it is

681
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,040
hokey, but it, it is, that's
what it is.

682
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:57,720
I mean, I think people can best
understand saying it like that.

683
00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,640
Like I'm my best self because
I'm using a plant for my

684
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:04,960
well-being.
Whereas before it was taking

685
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,720
high doses of narcotics.
Now, I was one of those where

686
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:09,720
the narcotics didn't knock me
out, didn't they?

687
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,880
If I didn't tell you, you would
have no idea that I've been all

688
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,680
day.
Oxycontin, Percocet, like you

689
00:39:16,680 --> 00:39:19,160
know, you wouldn't know because
it didn't affect me in any kind

690
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:22,040
of negative way where you could
tell by looking at me.

691
00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:26,600
It didn't get me high or
anything, but I still wasn't my

692
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:29,120
best self because I wasn't
getting enough pain relief even

693
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:33,360
with those narcotics and with
kratom, I do, I get the most

694
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,400
amazing pain relief.
And it's like, why?

695
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:39,800
Why would people not be happy to
see a fellow human doing better

696
00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:41,600
in their life because of a
plant?

697
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,880
Like what?
Why can't that be applauded?

698
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,880
So it's just, and I think that
just goes back to why people

699
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:50,000
like you and I advocate and we
educate because we're just

700
00:39:50,000 --> 00:39:51,800
trying to help people
understand.

701
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,440
Yeah.
And I think having autonomy over

702
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:57,920
your health is, it's like best
feeling ever, you know?

703
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,200
It's everything.
It's everything it.

704
00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,960
Really is.
Yeah, I'm loving, like we're

705
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:06,560
having such a great discussion.
I love this.

706
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:12,920
But back to your journey using
kratom, let's go back to when

707
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,000
you know you're using it, you
first discover and it's amazing.

708
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,720
And like, how was that impacting
like your overall day-to-day

709
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:26,440
life, your well-being?
Well, before that, I spent a lot

710
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:31,440
of time in the hospital, to be
honest, because like we just

711
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,560
discussed, you know, a lot of
the pharmaceuticals I was taking

712
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:40,560
made things worse, a lot worse.
And, you know, not I, I don't

713
00:40:40,560 --> 00:40:43,400
remember all the names of them
because they're all like very

714
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,120
long names.
And I didn't really pay that

715
00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:49,760
much attention because before
kratom, I did trust my doctors.

716
00:40:49,760 --> 00:40:52,720
Even though I was being treated
the way I was being treated, I

717
00:40:52,720 --> 00:40:56,680
still felt like they knew more
than I did, you know, So if

718
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,640
they're going to prescribe, this
is probably for a good reason.

719
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,400
But I would wind up in the
hospital a lot because I had a

720
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:09,080
lot of Crohn's flare ups
happening and I wasn't able to

721
00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,800
work.
I at the time was a, I, I told

722
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:14,680
you I was a writer, but I was
also a hair stylist because you

723
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,120
can't make a living just being a
writer alone.

724
00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:25,800
So anyway, so I, I wasn't able
to, to really do well in that

725
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:31,680
because it was so physical, you
know, and that was causing me

726
00:41:31,800 --> 00:41:34,320
trouble at work.
I was being threatened quite a

727
00:41:34,320 --> 00:41:37,080
bit, even though it was out of
my control.

728
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,760
So I, I didn't have any
autonomy.

729
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:45,120
I was completely just a mess
really.

730
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,720
And I kind of thought that was
just going to be my life until,

731
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:52,640
until kratom.
And you know, it's trial and

732
00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:55,960
error with any plant medicine.
So I'm not saying like I

733
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,880
completely figured it out right
off the bat.

734
00:41:59,920 --> 00:42:03,920
I didn't really understand
extracts at the time, so I don't

735
00:42:03,920 --> 00:42:06,560
even think they were calling
them extracts, to be honest with

736
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:07,560
you.
They just like, oh, this is a

737
00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:10,360
much stronger version of the
kratom.

738
00:42:10,720 --> 00:42:16,440
I go, OK, I'll try that.
But once I became more aware of

739
00:42:16,440 --> 00:42:21,040
that and educated myself and it
really taught me to listen to my

740
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,200
own body in a way that nothing
else really aside from

741
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:27,080
pregnancy.
It it really taught me to start

742
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,160
like, you know, cluing into what
my body was saying to me.

743
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:35,560
And so that really just changed
my whole life.

744
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:38,120
I I said professionally and
personally, and that's not an

745
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:41,040
overstatement.
It really completely changed my

746
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:45,920
life.
So yeah, I'm trying to think of

747
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,040
other ways it did, but those are
like the pretty the major ways I

748
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:51,600
could think of.
It's great that, you know, this

749
00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:55,240
plant was just able to help you
so much and especially with

750
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:57,560
those flare ups with Crohn's, I
mean, I've heard lots of stories

751
00:42:57,560 --> 00:42:59,800
of like, yeah, how do you get to
be hospitalized?

752
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,400
And I so with kratom, you that
that stopped.

753
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:06,000
You didn't have to go through
that anymore.

754
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:09,120
I mean, I, I would still have
nausea, which is when I started

755
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:13,160
using cannabis more
intentionally to kind of combat

756
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:15,280
that.
But I also now understand that I

757
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,520
was using it on an empty
stomach.

758
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:22,840
That didn't help.
And also I was probably using

759
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:25,720
too much at certain times as
well and I didn't realize it and

760
00:43:25,720 --> 00:43:30,320
I so I would titrate down.
So, you know, I started off with

761
00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:34,200
just the tea and then I found
out about the powder.

762
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:39,720
So I started taking the capsules
and now I just mix like a couple

763
00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:44,600
of tablespoons in a Gatorade or
a Powerade couple of times a day

764
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:49,160
and that's and I so I drink it
all day and that works for me.

765
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:50,760
That's cool.
I was about to ask you like

766
00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:52,920
what's your routine like these
days?

767
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:55,720
So, and let me ask you this,
because many times when people

768
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:59,480
are new to kratom and they have
like Crohn's or some kind of GI

769
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,960
thing that they're like, but I
don't know if I should be

770
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,520
consuming this powder.
Like that's probably not good

771
00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:06,720
for my gut.
I mean, you're a long time

772
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:10,560
consumer, you know a lot.
So what how do you address that

773
00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:12,200
when people say that?
Because I usually don't know

774
00:44:12,200 --> 00:44:17,640
what to tell them with that.
Well, I mean, I, I would also

775
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:19,960
like want to know what else
they're taking and, and you

776
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,680
know, because I think I use, you
know, probiotics as much as

777
00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:27,560
possible.
So it's not just the kratom, you

778
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:31,800
know, like I said, I use
cannabis that helps a lot, but.

779
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,200
I think it's more people
concerned of like I have gut

780
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:38,560
issues.
Should I be well, should I be

781
00:44:38,560 --> 00:44:42,960
consuming a powder that you
know, that is that going to not

782
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:45,560
be good for my gut when I've got
gut issues?

783
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,520
I think the concern is, I don't
know if I should be drinking

784
00:44:48,520 --> 00:44:50,600
then, you know, making this tea
and drinking it because it's a

785
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:55,040
powder, you know, and, and maybe
I'd be better with an extract,

786
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:58,680
But you know, I, I haven't had
those kind of GI issues.

787
00:44:58,680 --> 00:45:02,040
So but but plenty of people I
know with Crohn's and other GI

788
00:45:02,040 --> 00:45:05,200
issues say they they make a
kratom tea and they're fine.

789
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,520
Oh yeah, kratom tea.
I still drink kratom tea as well

790
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,920
because coincidentally my
husband's working in the Kava

791
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:16,640
bar again in Maryland.
And so they make kratom tea that

792
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,880
they just make it with the whole
leaf powder or the crushed leaf.

793
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,280
Sorry.
And so, you know, when he's,

794
00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:25,200
when he comes home with one, I
drink one.

795
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:29,760
Yeah, No, I don't have any
issues with it.

796
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:33,360
Like I said, the only thing was
nausea, but it's one of those

797
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:36,000
things where it's like it could
be so many things causing me

798
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,400
nausea, you know, because
endometriosis as well like that,

799
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,240
it's hard to pin it down if it
is creative related or if it's

800
00:45:44,240 --> 00:45:46,560
something else.
Right, exactly.

801
00:45:46,640 --> 00:45:50,480
I usually tell somebody like you
can try it with the mixing the

802
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,400
powder, making the tea of it and
then try it when you strain it,

803
00:45:53,400 --> 00:45:56,240
you know, so that there's no
powder that you know, you, you

804
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:00,600
take out the plant matter to see
like what works best for you.

805
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:02,840
But it's such a trial and error
for everyone like you.

806
00:46:03,080 --> 00:46:05,480
And you said earlier that you
went through trial and error.

807
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:07,160
So what?
Because when I first discovered

808
00:46:07,160 --> 00:46:09,960
Kratom and I'm trying it, it
didn't do much for me at first.

809
00:46:09,960 --> 00:46:13,440
But also because I suffer from
chronic pain, everybody was

810
00:46:13,440 --> 00:46:15,480
saying you want red, you want
red, red for pain.

811
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:18,080
I'm OK because I don't know any
better.

812
00:46:18,080 --> 00:46:20,520
And apparently Reds don't work
on me.

813
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:21,920
They don't really do much for
me.

814
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,920
And I was using capsules because
everybody said how bitter and

815
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,720
nasty it tasted and I was being
a wuss.

816
00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:29,280
So I'm like, well, I'm going to
do capsule.

817
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,520
Why would I want to taste it if
I could just have a capsule

818
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,800
version?
And so I was doing like red

819
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:36,680
capsules in the beginning.
I'm like, why are all these

820
00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:38,920
capsules making me feel bloated
and nauseous?

821
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:41,840
Because you know, you have to
take, you know, so many of them

822
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:43,760
because it's just the leaf
powder, raw leaf powder.

823
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,520
And but it was the Reds, Russ
just didn't work on me.

824
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,960
It was the greens, which, you
know, of course, I went from red

825
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,760
to been trying white and white
was like, Nope, too jittery.

826
00:46:54,360 --> 00:46:56,120
So it was a while before I tried
the green.

827
00:46:56,120 --> 00:46:59,960
But I noticed a huge difference
when I opened up the capsules to

828
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:02,680
just do the powder direct
because a lot of people say, you

829
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:06,320
know, the powder is the magic,
you know?

830
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:08,680
If you do the capsules, it might
not work as well.

831
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:11,880
I do, yeah.
I like the Blade Papes and I

832
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,720
wish those had been around when
I first started because that was

833
00:47:14,720 --> 00:47:17,440
like a game changer.
And I didn't even try them until

834
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:20,480
just a few years ago.
And I'm like, what a cool way

835
00:47:20,480 --> 00:47:23,040
for people that don't know, and
I'll link to it in the show

836
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:25,240
knows.
So it's the best way to describe

837
00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:26,600
it.
It's almost looks like a little

838
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:28,080
cellophane thing, but it's not
cellophane.

839
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:30,880
It's made out of potato starch,
but they call it like a little

840
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:32,920
gel thing.
But I buy the one that's in the

841
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,120
shape of a pouch.
So it's kind of like it just

842
00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:38,120
looks like a tornado, right?
And so it's, it's a pouch.

843
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:41,160
So you can just pour your crayon
powder in or any supplement, any

844
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,000
supplement that you don't want
to taste, you can.

845
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,240
I've done turmeric in there
because turmeric tastes nasty to

846
00:47:45,240 --> 00:47:48,040
me.
You put your crayon powder in

847
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:50,320
and then you just kind of and
you don't over pack it.

848
00:47:50,320 --> 00:47:51,640
That's the key.
Don't over pack.

849
00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,080
And you got fingers got to be
dry because if your fingers get

850
00:47:54,080 --> 00:47:56,960
wet, then when you're handling
it, it'll all stick and mess up.

851
00:47:57,240 --> 00:48:00,880
So you just kind of fold it over
and then you just have this

852
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,760
little pouch of kratom, you dip
it in some water and it starts

853
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,680
to gel up a little bit and then
you just swallow it.

854
00:48:05,920 --> 00:48:09,000
And the first time I did this,
honestly, Diana, I was terrified

855
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:11,280
because I'm thinking, how am I
supposed to be able to swallow

856
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:15,040
this thing's kind of big, you
know, because I was able to

857
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,560
easily fit like a tea one
teaspoon.

858
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:20,000
I normally take 2 teaspoons of,
of kratom powder and make my

859
00:48:20,000 --> 00:48:23,400
swamp water tea, but I, I could
fit one teaspoon pretty well.

860
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,120
So I'm like, oh gosh, I got to
take two of these and I thought

861
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:29,440
I better record myself because
I'm sure this is all going to be

862
00:48:29,760 --> 00:48:31,160
great.
No big deal.

863
00:48:31,280 --> 00:48:33,200
I'm psyching myself out was the
problem.

864
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,760
I need to record this because
I'm sure this is so easy to do

865
00:48:37,760 --> 00:48:40,960
and it could help other people.
So I just remember like holding

866
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:42,600
going.
I'm scared, but I just did it.

867
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,440
And the key is to just do a fat
If you overthink, you'll mess

868
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:48,280
up.
And and it was like, Oh my God,

869
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:52,040
that was so not a big deal.
So I made a 7 minute video

870
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:53,920
that's on my kratom.
Real talk, it's my private

871
00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,840
online community for whole leaf
powdered kratom consumers,

872
00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:00,720
walking you through step by step
how to do this, how to put it

873
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:02,600
together, how to do it.
You know, I have the whole

874
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,800
because I can't post it on
social media that, you know,

875
00:49:04,800 --> 00:49:08,040
we're so highly censored.
You know, you show kratom on

876
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,880
screen.
Oh my God, TikTok, they don't

877
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:13,240
like that and and neither does
some of the other platforms.

878
00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:16,040
So I'm like, I got to have a
place where I can help people

879
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:19,440
get, you know, that kind of
information and just it's just

880
00:49:19,440 --> 00:49:22,200
we all learn from each other.
So many people heard about Blade

881
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,560
Papes from me and then, but I
learned about it from other

882
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:27,360
creative consumers.
Well, I learned about it from

883
00:49:27,360 --> 00:49:30,280
you and I'm ordering my husband
some because he does the toss

884
00:49:30,280 --> 00:49:32,560
and watch.
I can't because I had too much

885
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:33,680
of A gag reflex.
I.

886
00:49:33,960 --> 00:49:37,600
I can't do toss a bunch.
There's no way When I when I

887
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,680
first discovered kratom and I
I'm like, well, how do you even

888
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:41,960
take this?
And people were talking about

889
00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:43,840
toss and watch.
So I googled it and I found a

890
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:46,040
YouTube video.
I'm watching it going there's no

891
00:49:46,040 --> 00:49:48,280
way I'm doing that.
Yeah, I will find it.

892
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:50,720
There's got to be another way to
consume kratom, but I'm not

893
00:49:50,720 --> 00:49:53,280
going to just put that on my mat
in my mouth and then go guzzle

894
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:55,840
it down with that Just looked
gross the way they were doing

895
00:49:55,840 --> 00:49:58,360
it, you know, like dry powder on
your tongue.

896
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:02,000
I don't think so.
No, I think I've taken it almost

897
00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,880
every way that I can think of.
I've even had kratom brownies

898
00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:08,720
which were disgusting.
Interesting.

899
00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:12,080
It doesn't seem to bake.
Well, bake or cook it doesn't

900
00:50:12,080 --> 00:50:13,640
work.
It's not like.

901
00:50:15,000 --> 00:50:17,480
I don't like the gummies I I've
yet to have one that actually

902
00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,440
tasted good.
So I found one that tastes good

903
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:23,800
from my my friends at Exp
Botanicals, like theirs is good,

904
00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:27,720
but but most that I've tried
just is is it's either the

905
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:30,080
flavor doesn't taste good that
they flavored it with or you get

906
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:33,840
a bad after taste.
And this one that I've been

907
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:36,080
trying is, is the apple Peach
flavor.

908
00:50:36,080 --> 00:50:38,880
And it's really good.
Surprisingly, I really like the

909
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:43,160
taste of it like and I do
extract EXPII.

910
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:46,440
Yeah, I have it linked on my
website.

911
00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:50,760
I have a a vendors page on my
website is called new.

912
00:50:51,040 --> 00:50:57,360
It's New Wave Botanicals is the
website and the, the letters EX

913
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:00,760
P/E XP that they're gummies and
you can get it through there.

914
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:03,680
Yeah, I'm super impressed with.
That's like the only one that

915
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:06,760
actually tastes good.
So it's, it's, but, you know,

916
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,240
just, I feel like with kratom,
there's so much trial and error

917
00:51:09,240 --> 00:51:11,560
of everything.
You got to find what works for

918
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:13,560
you.
You got to find a good brand.

919
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:15,560
That's why I have my vendors
page because I've done a lot of

920
00:51:15,560 --> 00:51:19,440
research and it's, you know,
just helping people not have to

921
00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:21,160
work so hard to find the
information.

922
00:51:21,160 --> 00:51:24,360
Because when you started back in
2009, I can't imagine there'd be

923
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:26,520
much stuff.
I didn't start to 2019.

924
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,440
That's ten years after you.
And even back then I wasn't that

925
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:33,480
much.
I was buying it from like people

926
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:37,040
on Facebook.
My uncle had some kind of

927
00:51:37,040 --> 00:51:40,560
Indonesian connection, which
probably wasn't legal.

928
00:51:41,240 --> 00:51:46,560
And I was, you know, yeah, it's
definitely sketchy.

929
00:51:46,560 --> 00:51:48,320
And I definitely have had some
products.

930
00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,960
I was like, woof, Nope, that's
that's not good.

931
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:55,720
So yes, I have tried a lot of
different kinds and I've

932
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,000
purchased it in some pretty
sketchy ways in the past.

933
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,680
So now I'm so excited that there
are, there are brands that are

934
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:08,400
so transparent, like I, I, I
don't want to like, you know,

935
00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:10,880
promote any specific one, but
you know, we both know

936
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:14,040
Christopher from Christopher
organics and organic votes.

937
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:15,800
What are my favorites?
What are my favorites?

938
00:52:16,040 --> 00:52:20,040
I love how honest he is because
I've interviewed people who, you

939
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:23,600
know, creative vendors before
and they will not for the life

940
00:52:23,600 --> 00:52:28,320
of them stay how they recommend
using their products.

941
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:31,480
And I understand from a legal
standpoint, like maybe 10 years

942
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:34,280
ago that that would, you know,
be the, the situation.

943
00:52:34,640 --> 00:52:36,360
But now you can't do that
anymore.

944
00:52:36,360 --> 00:52:39,880
You have to be honest.
People want transparency.

945
00:52:40,200 --> 00:52:43,320
And that's also, I think what
holds us back if you're not

946
00:52:43,520 --> 00:52:45,520
being transparent about your
products.

947
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,440
It's.
It lends to the sketchiness that

948
00:52:48,440 --> 00:52:51,680
people who think that it is
sketchy already.

949
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,280
It really does.
I'm noticing more and more

950
00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:57,760
kratom companies are being more
transparent.

951
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:01,320
I've gotten to know some really
cool ones like Christopher.

952
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:04,040
Christopher puts out lots of
educational information.

953
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,360
He and I did an educational
webinar together to help people

954
00:53:07,360 --> 00:53:09,520
that suffer with chronic pain
because we both do.

955
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:14,360
And my friend Abraham at Pure
Infinity Botanicals, he puts out

956
00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:16,760
all these videos on YouTube.
Just full transparency.

957
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:20,040
He just did one last week, like
talking about the packaging and

958
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:24,360
how, you know, we could, you
know, save money and, and buy

959
00:53:24,360 --> 00:53:26,240
all the packaging stuff through
China.

960
00:53:26,240 --> 00:53:28,680
But we want to support some U.S.
companies and they show

961
00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:31,640
different parts of their, their,
their stuff.

962
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:35,080
And like, we buy the these
pouches from this company in

963
00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:38,480
this state and we buy and like
just trying to show like, you

964
00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:41,040
know, all the things they do to
help people.

965
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:44,080
And even that we have all these
instructions on our packaging.

966
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,160
And even when you turn it over
on the bottom, we have a

967
00:53:46,160 --> 00:53:48,520
motivational quote to help
people that are going through a

968
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:52,120
hard time.
It's like, wow, most people

969
00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,160
don't do stuff or don't think to
do stuff like that.

970
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,360
But when you have a company
that's so transparent and

971
00:53:56,360 --> 00:53:58,720
they're like, we're just here to
help everybody and we're here to

972
00:53:58,720 --> 00:54:02,360
educate, that's huge.
So huge, so huge.

973
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:05,640
And especially if you're going
to offer your own personal

974
00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:08,800
experience with that, which I
really love, you know, even when

975
00:54:08,800 --> 00:54:12,520
if you're saying, Oh, my dog
takes this, you know, because I

976
00:54:12,520 --> 00:54:15,000
am fascinated with giving kratom
to animals.

977
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:19,760
I just think there are so many
applications for it.

978
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:23,200
And I think that like, people's
lives could be infinitely better

979
00:54:23,200 --> 00:54:26,920
if they just try.
Right, exactly.

980
00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,600
But I can't always put that in
words into words like like

981
00:54:30,600 --> 00:54:33,960
Christopher can or you can.
But I, you know, I try to

982
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:37,120
because sometimes the education
part of it, you know, slips my,

983
00:54:37,120 --> 00:54:40,920
my brain a little bit because I
want to talk more about the

984
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:45,080
personal side of things.
But you know, but I'm glad that

985
00:54:45,080 --> 00:54:48,280
there are, there are those
sources out there now because

986
00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,080
like you said, there wasn't
before.

987
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:55,720
And I just hope that we can
fight this current war on drugs

988
00:54:55,720 --> 00:55:00,240
that's happening because I, I
feel like we have a lot more

989
00:55:00,240 --> 00:55:03,080
going for our side now than we
did before.

990
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:08,280
But it's also pretty terrifying
at at how quickly these things

991
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:10,200
gain momentum.
So.

992
00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:12,880
Right.
Well, I think this is the key is

993
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,720
to have stories like yours out
here like this through the

994
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:20,400
podcast and other ways of just
spreading the message, these

995
00:55:20,440 --> 00:55:24,200
positive experiences with the
plant that more people need to

996
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:27,600
know about and then the
naysayers need to see like this.

997
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,680
This helps so many of us in a
very positive way.

998
00:55:31,040 --> 00:55:34,960
And instead of just always
clinging on to these click bait

999
00:55:34,960 --> 00:55:37,360
headlines of kratom kills, it's
like.

1000
00:55:37,640 --> 00:55:41,000
But they failed to mention that
the person had fentanyl in their

1001
00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,280
system as well.
Or what about the supposed

1002
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:47,280
kratom death where the guy had a
gunshot to the chest?

1003
00:55:47,320 --> 00:55:50,880
Like isn't that what killed him?
Why did you all remember that

1004
00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:52,040
one from years back?
It's like.

1005
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:54,480
And then they try to paint you
like you're being insensitive

1006
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,200
because you're actually pointing
out the facts and it's like.

1007
00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:59,920
Right.
And it's like, yeah, this is

1008
00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:01,560
something.
That would actually impact my

1009
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:03,640
life.
So I'm going to be a little bit,

1010
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:05,680
you know, I'm going to poke
holes where I can poke holes.

1011
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,240
Right, exactly.
And I would take away from, you

1012
00:56:09,240 --> 00:56:12,640
know, the grieving families and
and, you know, losing a loved

1013
00:56:12,640 --> 00:56:16,840
one.
But we know that kratom alone

1014
00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:20,920
does not kill people.
If it does, it's so rare.

1015
00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,800
More people die every day from
Tylenol or from other things

1016
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,080
that everybody.
Else, I mean, jeez, do do some

1017
00:56:28,080 --> 00:56:30,200
research on Benadryl and it will
terrify you.

1018
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:33,320
Yeah.
So, you know, there's there's so

1019
00:56:33,320 --> 00:56:37,360
many things that kill people
every single day, but why is it

1020
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:39,840
that everybody hyper focuses on
Kratom?

1021
00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,160
So it gets frustrating.
And since we've talked a lot, a

1022
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:46,440
lot about advocacy here, we'll
start winding down because I

1023
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:47,480
feel like I talked to you all
day.

1024
00:56:49,280 --> 00:56:51,920
Wait for people watching this
and they keep hearing us talk

1025
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:54,560
about all this advocacy stuff.
What would you tell somebody

1026
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:56,080
that's like, I want to get more
involved.

1027
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:57,840
I want, you know, this is
inspiring me.

1028
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,160
I'm a kratom consumer.
I want to help spread the

1029
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:02,640
message to what would you tell
people that they could be doing

1030
00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:06,000
right now to help spread more
awareness and be an advocate?

1031
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,600
Share your work, go to your
website.

1032
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:15,880
But seriously, though, I it, it
really does keep me invigorated

1033
00:57:15,880 --> 00:57:20,360
to see what you're doing and
through the kratom corrals.

1034
00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:23,840
Am I saying that correctly?
Everything that you're doing,

1035
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:28,040
you're working tirelessly.
You know, a lot of my advocacy

1036
00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:32,480
now is for all plant medicine
because, you know, I do feel

1037
00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:37,960
like the issue that we have,
even with people who are pro

1038
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,200
plant medicine, like I said
earlier, they don't really

1039
00:57:41,200 --> 00:57:44,920
encompass all of them.
They, they have certain

1040
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:49,120
attitudes, especially about
kratom and it just doesn't make

1041
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,520
any sense.
You know, it it, it doesn't make

1042
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:55,080
any sense to say like, oh, well,
this plant is better than that

1043
00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,600
plant because I know, because I
use it, you know, it just, it

1044
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:02,840
doesn't make sense.
But my point is sharing these,

1045
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:06,760
these stories like like you do
like Christopher does there,

1046
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:12,560
there's a huge swath of ways to
support through Reddit and

1047
00:58:12,560 --> 00:58:16,280
TikTok.
I mean, we're limited on social

1048
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,680
media for sure.
But there is also a huge

1049
00:58:19,680 --> 00:58:23,320
community there, you know, and
you can find it if you look.

1050
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,640
You have to look a little bit
because of all the restrictions,

1051
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:30,400
right?
But on sub stack, that's a good

1052
00:58:30,400 --> 00:58:34,680
one, because sub stack doesn't
censor in the same ways that

1053
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,240
other.
Platforms yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm,

1054
00:58:37,400 --> 00:58:39,840
I'm going to start doing more on
sub stack because I think that's

1055
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,560
a good alternative for us to to
I know Christopher is on there,

1056
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,840
but I'm going to set up my my
crane stories podcast.

1057
00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,440
I think I'm going to try using
that for my e-mail list because

1058
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,120
it seems like I'm not seeing
much censorship stuff over

1059
00:58:52,120 --> 00:58:55,440
there, which is good.
Yeah, and, and I would say, you

1060
00:58:55,440 --> 00:58:58,160
know, do some reading.
I know that all of our attention

1061
00:58:58,160 --> 00:59:03,880
spans have shrunk drastically
over the last few years, but,

1062
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:08,280
you know, there's so many essays
and articles available.

1063
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:11,680
If you do the research and read
past some of these headlines

1064
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:16,240
that can be scary and see how, I
mean, there there was a whole

1065
00:59:16,240 --> 00:59:20,040
rehab center in Maine that is no
longer that that saved hundreds

1066
00:59:20,040 --> 00:59:22,040
of lives through kratom and
cannabis.

1067
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,680
Like these things can happen if
we open our minds a little bit

1068
00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:29,720
and just try to to understand it
a little bit more instead of

1069
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:33,040
operating from a place of fear.
Because I think that's really

1070
00:59:33,040 --> 00:59:36,280
what it comes down to is people
are afraid.

1071
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,800
They think it's the same thing
as an opioid.

1072
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,080
And the opioid crisis is still
claiming lives and it's, you

1073
00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,400
know, and, and there's a lot of
trauma attached to that.

1074
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:50,120
And so people operate from a
fear of thinking that that will

1075
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:52,680
happen again to themselves or to
a loved one.

1076
00:59:53,160 --> 00:59:56,080
And it's not the same thing.
It really isn't.

1077
00:59:56,080 --> 01:00:02,800
And I just encourage you to to
do extra research and Fact Check

1078
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,640
some of these things, you know?
Because.

1079
01:00:05,840 --> 01:00:08,040
It's too easy to do.
It's just it takes a little bit

1080
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:11,440
of time.
And you know, Christopher

1081
01:00:11,440 --> 01:00:15,200
McCurdy, he's a great, great
resource for that, right?

1082
01:00:16,280 --> 01:00:18,840
In addition to your podcast and
your shows and everything that

1083
01:00:18,840 --> 01:00:21,000
you do.
But I'm sure that you would say

1084
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,120
that he, he's also a really
great resource.

1085
01:00:23,120 --> 01:00:24,800
I've referenced him a lot in my
work.

1086
01:00:26,120 --> 01:00:28,880
And I know that research is
still very limited.

1087
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:34,200
So that part can be challenging,
but there are so many anecdotal

1088
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,000
accounts of how this can change
your life.

1089
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:43,040
And so I, I think that, you
know, if you just open up your

1090
01:00:43,040 --> 01:00:45,560
mind a little bit like that's,
that's really what it is.

1091
01:00:45,560 --> 01:00:48,600
And, and like I said, just try
to educate yourself a little bit

1092
01:00:48,600 --> 01:00:52,160
more, you know?
I love that that there's been a

1093
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,960
great discussion with you.
Diana, thank you so much for

1094
01:00:54,960 --> 01:01:00,440
coming on the podcast.
And you have a podcast blog you

1095
01:01:00,440 --> 01:01:02,000
got like where?
Where can people go find all

1096
01:01:02,000 --> 01:01:04,640
your stuff?
We have a podcast called Getting

1097
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:08,760
Personal with Plant Medicine and
we talk about all different

1098
01:01:08,760 --> 01:01:10,960
types.
We talk about kratom a lot and,

1099
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:16,680
and Kava and, and cannabis.
So yes, we're on any platform

1100
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:20,120
that you can find.
And our media umbrella is called

1101
01:01:20,120 --> 01:01:22,840
Your Highness media, which I did
want to mention really quickly

1102
01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,000
because when we were talking
about earlier about being your

1103
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:29,640
highest self, that's kind of the
impetus behind your Highness

1104
01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:32,320
media.
Like we we cover everything that

1105
01:01:32,920 --> 01:01:35,680
it makes you operate on your
highest level, right?

1106
01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:39,600
That that fights against the
status quo but also encourages

1107
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:44,440
you to think for yourself.
So we have a lot of plant

1108
01:01:44,440 --> 01:01:48,160
medicine related things on our
sub stack under your Highness

1109
01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:51,360
media, but you also can find
episodes getting personal on

1110
01:01:51,360 --> 01:01:56,720
their recipes, cross promotions
with other people.

1111
01:01:57,320 --> 01:01:58,960
Yeah.
So that's pretty much the place

1112
01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,680
to find us because I've given up
on trying to work with social

1113
01:02:02,680 --> 01:02:06,440
media.
I mean, I have the links, I'm on

1114
01:02:06,440 --> 01:02:10,080
there sometimes, but it's, it's,
it just feels like futile,

1115
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:12,400
honestly.
Like especially Instagram, we're

1116
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:16,080
so shadow manned on there.
It's frustrating for sure.

1117
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:18,400
You need to come join us at
Kratom Real talk.

1118
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,040
There's no censoring there
because that's that.

1119
01:02:21,520 --> 01:02:26,560
It's a what I did when I lost my
first TikTok account back in

1120
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:28,960
December 2023 before I set up a
new one.

1121
01:02:28,960 --> 01:02:32,480
I'm like, and then my background
is on community building,

1122
01:02:32,480 --> 01:02:35,480
digital marketing, social media.
It's like we didn't have a place

1123
01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:39,320
that's not social media where
we're not censored, where I can

1124
01:02:39,320 --> 01:02:43,800
have the control instead of a
billionaire bro, right?

1125
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:47,120
Or these tech giants.
So I set it up on the school

1126
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,920
platform.
School is awesome SKOOL, but I

1127
01:02:49,920 --> 01:02:53,640
set it up kratomrealtalk.com.
And definitely for those here,

1128
01:02:54,640 --> 01:02:57,320
if you consume Holy of Kratom,
you have positive experience

1129
01:02:57,320 --> 01:02:59,040
with it.
It's it's, it's basically a

1130
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,600
support group.
It's a forum.

1131
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:04,160
We we can talk all, we talk all
about Kratom there.

1132
01:03:04,440 --> 01:03:08,640
And it's like a Facebook group,
but without all that censorship

1133
01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:10,720
and BS that comes along with
social media.

1134
01:03:11,000 --> 01:03:12,400
Like we'll still be on social
media.

1135
01:03:12,400 --> 01:03:15,000
That's not going to go away.
But let's have a place where we

1136
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,560
can go and hang out where we
just don't have all that

1137
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:19,160
nonsense.
So.

1138
01:03:19,520 --> 01:03:22,080
So yeah, Kratom Real Talk is
definitely the place to come

1139
01:03:22,200 --> 01:03:25,160
come hang out for that.
So yeah, we'd love for you to

1140
01:03:25,160 --> 01:03:27,320
come in there because, boy, I
know you'll add a lot to the

1141
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:31,440
conversations in there.
But thank you so much, Reyna,

1142
01:03:31,440 --> 01:03:33,320
for joining us.
This has just been an amazing

1143
01:03:33,320 --> 01:03:35,040
discussion.
I really enjoy this.

1144
01:03:35,680 --> 01:03:37,200
Same.
Thank you so much.