Ep 82: Living with Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome: How Kratom Changed Everything for Araya Light

0:00 For the first time, I didn't hurt and I didn't get high. I didn't get stoned. I just felt a little bit of an awe feeling. It was a relief. It was just relief of not hurting all over for the first time in like a decade. So I was like, holy cow. And we only took like a, an eighth of a teaspoon because we were, you know, I had looked it up. You start small. He was a much bigger guy. Even that worked on him. And he's like, I kind of dig this stuff. It helped. It helped take the edge off for him as an alcoholic.

0:40 And it just took that pain away from me. And so I'm like, I'm going to need a little bit of this, like, I'm going to try this out. And so when he did, he, he shared it with me. And and then so then I tried the red and and I because of the Ehler Stanlows I'm naturally hyperactive and it's hard to sleep and I refuse to take sleep meds. But for the first time I slept like 6-7 hours straight. I'm here with Area Light, a fabulous gal I met who has popped into our kratom gal's live stream in the comments from time to time.

1:21 Gotten to know her through that area. I'm so glad you're on the podcast with us because it sounds like you have a really interesting story. Yeah, thank you. I'm so happy to be here. I'm happy to have found you guys. Like I found a little tribe, I think in a way. So yeah, like I'm very grateful to be here and happy that my little YouTube guy put you guys in my life so. I'm so glad too. We have a lot of fun doing that live stream and just bringing our community together. And through that, I meet so many amazing people like yourself. And I love having people come on the podcast here and share their story because it can help so many others.

2:01 So we'll kick it off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and life before kratom. Yeah. OK so I am your typical Midwestern mom. I live on a farm out in a rural area and I do home school and before kratom I was a total go getter. I was the tomboy go go go my entire life. I went to school for mental health and I worked with the disabled population for quite a while. And then I ended up going to bartending with my best friend. And I loved it. I went from doing paperwork and early mornings to having a blast with my best friend, but very physical job. And I did that for about a decade. And you know, my, my job was opening bottles and making drinks for people.

2:58 And one day in my early 30s, I started having joint pain everywhere. And I, I, my wrist hurt and I was like, is it just wear and tear? You know, I mean, I'm only like 32. And it just kept getting worse. And I ended up having to walk off the job one day because I was just in so much pain. And cut to a month later, I'm pretty much being diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis and I went from, you know, opening 1000 beer bottles a night to not being able to open a water bottle on my own. Just too much pain and I had no strength. So I went from bartending to bedridden matter of months. And I had always been very independent, multiple jobs. I would bartend.

3:45 I was also a promo model, a brand ambassador. I worked out at like the State Fair every year and like just different like big events and always on my feet. Just go, go, go and, and to all of a sudden be veteran it, it was just like, what is going on? And so unfortunately, I, you know, I was going to doctors and doctors are just spinning the wheel and they're like, OK, you're going to take this pharmaceutical and you're going to take this pharmaceutical. And at first, you know, I listened to them because why wouldn't I? But I just was feeling worse. And I've always been kind of a natural health girl. Like I've never been one that likes to take medicine.

4:27 I'd rather just tough it out. If I have a headache, I'll drink some water, you know, or if I have a, a muscle ache, I'll put some magnesium gel on it, you know, just not a big farming gal. So when all of a sudden I'm dependent on big pharma and I'm not getting any better, I'm, I'm just like, this can't be my way of life. And I was on Facebook at the time and I found a group called Rheumatoid arthritis managed Naturally and it was ran by an RN. And in this group, they were saying things like remission pain free versus the other groups that I were in that we're talking about injections and infusions and you know, you know, just not being able to get out of bed every day and in your 10th Med.

5:12 And so I was like, wow, there is a dichotomy here. And I think I'm going to try to listen to these people that are seemingly getting better. So I kind of leaned into that. Meanwhile, I'm on the waiting list to go see a rheumatologist. Our healthcare system's not that great. I think it took about 8 months. So again, I'm literally bedridden at this point. I'm not physically able to function. My entire body was just riddled with inflammation. I couldn't pull a sheet up in bed. Basically, I was having family have to take care of me and, and, and my needs At this point, I finally get to see this rheumatologist. And by this point I learned a little bit about natural health from this group. And I had kind of cut back.

5:57 I'm like, oh, Mountain Dew is bad. OK, I'm going to stop drinking the Mountain Dew. And you know, the, the, the greasy hamburgers and the chicken sandwiches that I thought were healthy at Wendy's but really are not, and eating at Subway. And I was just learning that, you know, what I put in my body really does matter. And so when I finally got to see this rheumatologist, and I was so excited because I had quit these things. I've been drinking Mountain Dew since I was in high school. And the fact that I had been able to stop and, you know, I switched my diet around and I was starting to see some mild improvements. And as I start to tell this man, he literally interrupts me and says, diet doesn't matter. And I was just like, oh, and he was like a very older, probably 70s, like a Polish man.

6:44 He had, you know, been doing this his entire life. And I was just like that. I hate to think differently here, but according to everything I've been reading, that's not true. So I went ahead and let him, you know, write me the scripts and, and, and want to put me on a chemotherapy drug. And just, I hear this nightmare. And, and a little side note, my aunt is, was crippled with rheumatoid arthritis. I had saw her for 30 years with the crippled hands being in a wheelchair and she was on all of these meds and they had never made her any better. So I'm going to, I walked out and I was like, I don't think I'm going to go see that doctor anymore. I think I need another doctor. And so I went to my, my primary care physician who has been my doctor since I was 8 years old, which is very weird. But he was a family friend, so he knew me. He knew me and he's like, OK, we'll, we'll try to find you a better match.

7:41 So again, we're really looking at like 9 or 10 months of a wait though. So again, I'm really leaning into this Facebook group of natural health and I'm literally just my, my dad's helping me. We have a, a family friend who was an organic farmer. She worked with Farm Aid in like the 80s and 90s. She knows her stuff about natural health, so she gets involved too. And so we're just basically, I'm swapping out my meds without my doctor's permission. You know, I'm just, I'm like, it makes me itch. It makes me like, but I was seeing the results, taking away the bad food. So I do an entire gut health thing. You know, I do an entire elimination diet. I which an anti-inflammatory, anti-inflammatory elimination diet. And that's what I did.

8:29 And it, it took a few weeks and it was really boring and, and it, but I saw a huge, huge reduction in pain and I could move again and I could get out of bed. And so that's what I did. I literally changed my entire life. I, I stopped all the fast food, all the, the things that I thought were healthy that we're not. Come to find out, you know, white sugar, white flour and even white salt are, are pretty bad for you. And, and so as I'm going through the steps and I finally go to see this other rheumatologist and at this point in time, I don't really, I'm a lot better. And but she feels like I would really like you to be on a medication And, and I'm like, but, but why, you know, I'm getting better, eliminating things and reintroducing, you know, good food to my body that I've never had before.

9:19 So she kind of was like, well, well, OK, I'll give you a shot. Let's see what happens. So I get off all meds and because my dad's really pushing me, he's like, well, why are you on? And so I'm like, OK, fine. And I'll and this and again, I'm, I'm not telling anyone to do this. This was my journey. This was my intuition telling me that this is not the way. And I'm a highly sensitive person. So all those drugs were just causing so many side effects. It just was not worth it to me. And again, as I'm removing things and I'm just, I'm feeling better. And it was really hard to be in the mindset of going against your authority. You know, I mean, these doctors or who have I've listened to my entire life and now I'm going against them and I'm finding better results.

10:08 So that's what I did and I ended up getting off all of my medication. I ended up turning around all of my blood work. I had had seropositive rheumatoid arthritis. My numbers were off the charts. Two years later, face level, the rheumatologist was shocked, you know, could not believe that I had done this. And so she's, and my doctor too is like, you know, great, your blood levels at great, but you still have rheumatoid arthritis. I was like, OK, I, I get that. But I have this new lifestyle. So I get more into herbalism, more into plants. You know, I've always been kind of a little bit of a hippie. And so I just kind of lean into that. And I started learning about, I heard about kratom and at the time I was still having some pain.

10:53 You know, I mean, I wasn't pain free by any means, but I had gotten rid of about 80% of the inflammation in the pain. One day I was carrying in groceries. I was able to function again. I'd gotten out of bed. At this point, I'm taking care of my house. I go to get groceries, but I had lost all of my muscle tone. Could be in bed ridden for months, bartender to bed ridden. That's a really weird mindset because I was like mighty mouth. So I'm carrying in groceries to the house and all of a sudden my shoulder socket rips out of place and I'm just in an extreme amount of pain. And I, I hurry and get in the house and I can't lift my arm And I'm like, I, I thought maybe it just popped out of socket because that has happened to me.

11:38 I've sprained my ankle a lot. My joints have been kind of loose. I used to have to pop my elbows. I played basketball and I was a little snappy. My whole family was. And Long story short, I end up going to physical therapy because my shoulder is just, I can't lift it. And they start, they're, they're met, you know, checking me out, testing me, doing everything. And they say you're extremely hyper mobile. I was like, what's hyper mobile mean? And it means that your joints move further. They have a further range of motion than normal. You know, most people's joints should move 8°. Mine move like 12 as an example. So, and I am 3435 years old and this is the first time I've ever heard this in my life.

12:20 And this therapist like 22 years old, but I'm, I'm a avid researcher. I'd love to learn. I'm a total nerd. Plus she's telling me about myself. So I go home and I'm like hypermobile. And I, I start, you know, going down the rabbit hole and I hear, I read about Aylor Stanlow syndrome, which is a genetic connective tissue disorder, super rare, supposedly. And as I read all the things of we'll shorten it to EDSEDS. I'm just like, check, check, check. I, I'm home, I have all of these things. I had sprained my ankle every year. I, I, there was things in there, you know, I had over dental crowding.

13:03 I had sensitivities to everything. I was, I was just like, this is me. This is my family. We just thought we were a little weird. You know, come to find out, I have this rare genetic condition. So I take this list into my rheumatologist and I'm like, I think I have this and, and I, I took it to my doctor originally who again, has known me since I was 8 years old. And I was like, hey doc, I think I have this. And he dismissed me. He said, Oh no, absolutely not. He said I've only seen one person in my entire practice that has that. And I was like, oh, but come on. Like and I was really disheartened. So then he's like, take it to your rheumatologist because she would be the one anyways to diagnose this.

13:46 I was like, OK, so I ironically had an appointment with her like a week later, I think it's her. I get to #3 and she's like, I have no doubt. You have that. And I was like, what? Like mind blowing? Like this changes my entire life. Like no wonder that I have had these struggles and these problems and sprain on my ankle every year and these heat intolerances and just everything. It was just like I was validated for the first time. She said, I'll send you to a geneticist. Well, you know, they're the final say. And so that was back in 2015. So I'd spent my entire life with this rare genetic condition and I've just been living with it.

14:32 And what it is, is it's a collagen disorder. So if you think about the Three Little Pigs, the house made of bricks, I'm the house made of straw. My collagen is, is is less dense, so everything in my body has to work 10 times harder. So my joints are hypermobile so they don't want to stay in place. And then my muscles have to work much harder because their tissue is so much less dense that they have to struggle. And that's how my every organ in my body is like that. So mind blowing. Wow, you know, And so now it's like now we know why my aunt has her problem. Now we know why my sister like it was because it's genetic.

15:13 I just happened to have the worst case and the avid researcher and me to dive down and figure out what's going on because I'm not one to lay in bed. You know, I said I was a tomboy. I'm a go getter. Let's let's let's. Solve this problem places be things to do. Absolutely, I can relate. Yes, absolutely. And it's so hard to be. And what I had, I made a quote like, like frustration is a hustler's mind in a broken body because your mind is just going and you can't, you literally physically can't do anything. So breakthrough, now I can get the therapy, now I can get the doctors. Now I can get the validation that yes, you are different. Yes, you do have a more of a struggle. And it comes with heart problems. It comes with it's a mitral valve prolapse, which my aunt had in her 40s.

16:07 And it can cause brain aneurysms, which my mother passed away from. So it's a big, it's a big deal. And so I would really like to help spread awareness about Aylor Stamos syndrome because it is not nearly as rare as people think, you know? It's not. I hear people talk about it all the time in our community, in our Kream community. It's like I, I never even heard of it before I became a Kream consumer. But people do talk about having it. It's it's not rare. No, and there's 13 different subtypes and so that alone, if there's that many types, clearly there's going to be a, a decent amount in the population that's having this. So I do see a geneticist every year. They, they poke and prod me.

16:51 I, I do have some mutations. I'm kind of a big deal up there. It's it's fun honestly, because it's kind of cool being different, you know, it's and, and they got excited about my mutations and it's like, so I really am an alien, you know, so lot of answers there. So. I'm so glad that you got it all figured out. Took a while, but you got it figured out. But you you kind of briefly mentioned you found kratom through in the middle of all of that. So let's go back to like, how did you first hear about Kratom? Like, how'd you hear about it and what made you decide to try it? Absolutely. So during that downtime, I came across a guy named Jordan Staser who was in the quote truther community.

17:38 I used to be kind of a political, not political, but we'll say political activism, but not really. But I used to just be into like what's going on. And he was an activist and he, he brought it up one day. I, I respected him. He was younger, but he was very, very intelligent guy. And he mentioned it one day and said that he had found it, it's an herbal supplement and that it had helped him his focus and it helped him his, he, he didn't have to like drink caffeine anymore. He, he, it just his neurotropic. He, he could not take a lot of things because the kratom just improved everything for him. And he just couldn't speak highly enough about it. He wasn't trying to sell it. But I was like, wow, the herbal supplement, huh? Which that was all I was taking at that point in time. I'd been off of all of big pharma. So, but unfortunately I was living in a state where you you couldn't access it.

18:30 So it was kind of a pipe dream. And this was about 2016, 2015, 16 About 2018-2019, a friend of mine who was struggling with alcoholism went down to a Indian like a powwow healing center and they had kratom there. And since I'm everyone's herbalist, he was like, well, I'll just ask Ray about this. So they had helped him get sober, and then they sent him home with some green and some red. And he didn't know anything about it, but he trusted that I could tell him. And this was just like the world coming together for me because he's like, hey, I got this stuff. And I don't know what to do with it, but I figured you would know what to do with it.

19:14 And I was like, kratom. And he's like, yeah, it's like, I'll be right over. So and 'cause he, I was like, we'll take it together. I I've been trying to try this stuff for years. And there it was. And so he's like, OK, so we took it together. And again, because of the Ehler Stanlow syndrome, I do have pain. It's chronic pain because my body is constantly struggling to just sit upright. And I can't take medication because I'm so sensitive to stuff. So I just kind of tough it out. I used topicals, bio freeze, magnesium, all that good stuff. But for the first time, I didn't hurt and I didn't get high.

19:57 I didn't get stoned. I just felt a little bit of an awe feeling. It was a relief. It was just relief of not hurting all over for the first time in like a decade. So I was like, holy cow. And we only took like a, an eighth of a teaspoon because we were, you know, I had looked it up. You start small. He was a much bigger guy. Even that worked on him. And he's like, I kind of dig this stuff. It helped. It helped take the edge off for him as an alcoholic and it just took that pain away from me. And so I'm like, I'm going to need a little bit of this, like I'm going to try this out. And so when he did, he, he shared it with me and, and then, so then I tried the red and, and I, because of the Ehlers Stanlow's, I'm naturally hyperactive and it's hard to sleep and I refuse to take sleep meds.

20:51 But for the first time, I slept like 6-7 hours straight and I was like, holy cow, it's a miracle. It's a miracle. And again, I didn't wake up groggy, I didn't woke up, wake up hungover. It was just, and I could turn over in bed. And that was one of the hardest things is with with the EDS with the pain is just laying flat. It's so hard even just to roll over in bed it your joint, your joints get stiff, they get stuck, they they dislocate while you're sleeping. It's you have to like build a little pillow fortress sometimes to get comfortable. And this allowed me to relax and sleep. And that was the start of that was the bottom of the mountain of maybe progressing out of chronic pain. Like literally every step I took, I hurt. I just was used to it.

21:43 I just literally lived And every my elbows, my hands, I would get things called trigger fingers and my hands or my hands would just lock up. Like I could not use my hands. So I would have to be very careful and like, you know, it was a, a balancing act of can I pick this up without triggering something? And then now I can't use my hand for a few weeks. So I was constantly in pain and constantly trying to function. And Kratom was just enough to allow me to take that, that one extra step every day or, or pick up that one extra thing that slowly allowed me to get the cobwebs out of my body. And and like the, I was like the tin Man on the Wizard of Oz, you know, and it's like the, the Kratom was like my oil can. And so just literally over, it took a couple years, you know, it wasn't quick, but over time I started being able to function more and more and more.

22:45 And it was thanks to the kratom. So that's how I got started with it. That's amazing Areum. Wow, I I am so glad you found it. It sounds like it's been your miracle plant. It absolutely like I'm kind of into tattoos and I kind of want a kratom tattoo because it it is that. I got a one, I got my little one that. Wow, see, that's my. Arms are covered, but I had room and it's like I had I had to get that a few years ago. Just it's just the logo from Krame Stories. Yeah, how important it is to me. And I mean, it has been life changing. And I think we might get into it in a little bit, like the propaganda we've talked about on the show. And like, I've had to bring this to my family because they have heard the negative propaganda.

23:27 And once I showed them this is what I've actually been taking for the last 5-6 years that has given me my life back. And they know I'm not an addict. And I've never had any type of addiction. I've never had any problem like that. And they have seen the improvement. So they're like, OK, clearly this is a beneficial plan. Yeah. So that's great. Well, so many times people do say to me, like, family members weren't really on board, but then they see how their loved ones doing and they're like, wait a minute, they're doing so much better now. There's something to this. So I think it's great that you've been able to show them how well this works for you because it's so easy to watch the news and believe what what we see on TV. Oh, easy so.

24:11 We don't, we don't, we don't know, right, unless we're shown otherwise. And that's one of the reasons why I do the kratom gals live stream because I just got so tired of seeing video after video after video of all this propaganda, misinformation, false information, especially news media. It's like, I still can't get over how many times right now in 2025, there's a news story about 7. OH, but they're showing whole leaf kratom powder. That's as if it solved the name. That's exactly what was happening. I'm not gonna name the family member, but that's what they were thinking that I was taking. And so I broke it all out. I was like, absolutely not. And I just take powder. I just take the powder and I take this tea.

24:51 As a bartender, I was used to taking shots. So I just take a little bit, you know, I, I take about 1/4 of a teaspoon and I mix it in a little bit of a water bottle and shake it up. And, and I, I don't do it all at once. I, I kind of, I take it three times during the day and then once at night, But I kind of, I don't shoot it all at once. I'll kind of drink half and then an hour or two later I'll come back and finish it off. So, and I have actually lowered my dose because at the beginning, you know, I was in so much pain that I, I needed it 24/7 basically. And it, but it helped. But it, I could feel it wear off and it didn't give me any withdrawal. I would just start hurting.

25:34 I was like, oh, oh, there it is again. Oh, I forgot it. And it was just like, Oh my gosh, me too. That's yeah, that's how my life has been. And so I would just, it's like, OK, I'm going to go ahead and take my dose. But now that I've progressed to the point where I'm at now, I wake up and I can go an hour or two and I kind of, I just, and and then I'll drink my coffee first. You know, I'll kind of get up and it's after I'm up and moving around, but then I'm starting to kind of feel and then I'm like, OK, I'll go ahead and take my first dose. So, you know, I've, I've not had to do any tolerance breaks. I'm just very regimented about it. And I always have been. I know that other people are not. I've actually helped quite a few friends with the alcohol. I can't tell you if he's still sober at this point, but he was sober for about a year after that. So it, it did help with the sobriety. And I've had friends who were on Suboxone who have turned over to the kratom and, and they could do this too. They can tell you how it's changed their life. I mean, I, I had a girlfriend who, I've been friends with her since we were teenagers and some drugs are running and ruining her life.

26:46 And, you know, and so then she was stuck on the Suboxone and I'm like, let me there's, there's better. And so, you know, and now she, she has a full time job. Her and her husband actually own their own business. They've moved up three times into a better house. I mean, I'm just so proud of them. And again, it's, it's, she's not addicted to it. It's just helping her function and she's no longer losing her teeth to the Suboxone and she's not, you know what I mean? It's just, and to see another person benefit in a different way, but still it's so life changing. It's just, it's a miracle plant for a lot of people. And I just, I really want to speak out about that because there's a huge difference in use versus abuse.

27:27 And you know, us chronic pain people with Aylor Stanlow syndrome, if you have EDSI, highly suggest you try kratom. Just point blank, like I, that's one of the things I want to do. I want to do a little show about the benefits of kratom and how it does help the Ehler Stanley syndrome because it helps me on multiple ways. And anyone with EDS would agree they'll be like, Oh my gosh, you're right. It does help with the anxiety. It does help with, you know, the lack of sleep at night. It just it helps on so many different levels and it's all natural. So I just really would like to help advocate and get it out there and squash all that big pharma propaganda that ruin. It oh, I'm excited that you want to do that.

28:07 I think that's such a great idea. We need more people advocating and helping people and just sharing information through their own personal experience. You can't get much better than that. You know, it's just here's how here's how this works for me and others can relate to that and you were just touching on about how this is just helping you in your everyday life. Let's talk a little bit more about that. You know, so many times people discover kratom and they just find other things that it helps with like just just their well-being. Or sometimes people say I also take medication for anxiety and I don't even take it anymore because I didn't realize kratom would help me with that. So just what are you noticing? Like, you know since you've been a kratom consumers consumer how it just helps you with your day-to-day life. Absolutely.

28:53 So I was one of the first people diagnosed with ADD back in the 90s. I kind of they, I got the medication. I'd say that I'm clinically diagnosed, you know, and I didn't like the way it made me feel and I got rid of it. And I've just been going through life without that until I was a mother. Then once when I was a mom, I, I, I couldn't do it anymore when I was a bartender. Having ADHD is actually a skill. It, it helps you, it helps you multitask. I mean, it is beneficial. But then when you're trying to like run a business and a home and your mom, all of a sudden you need five more hands. And when you're ADHD is not, is overwhelmed, you can't. So I did end up getting on some ADHD medication and it, it was a miracle it, I was labeling my son's toy boxes. I mean, I everything was great, but I didn't like it. I again, it's pharmaceutical, but I couldn't, it did help me it the way that I describe the medication is my unlike a car and that medication puts the driver in the car. It gets go, go do this.

30:08 Put this here, put that there. This needs to be done. So it does help me. But again, once I start taking the kratom, that helped me, it gave me that focus that I was missing. And it kind of gave me the little bit of an energy of like, OK, I need to get up and do something and I want to get up and do something. I want to go clean out that drawer. I want to go. I've been wanting to do this for weeks, you know, And so it just gave me that the motivation. It took the pain away, gave me the motivation, the focus energy to then go start doing things that I hadn't been able to do literally in like a decade. So that again was just huge that I can start taking care of little things and I'm not going to be back. When I was on that medication, I was highly sensitive and all they would have to do is change the brand or the manufacturer and I'd start having crazy side effects. So I would have to be very careful even on that and, and insurance, it was just a hassle and I was like, I'm just going to stop.

31:06 I just don't want to be on it anyways. And Kratom does enough for me there that it puts the driver in the car for the most part. And so again, you know, we have a little hobby farm here. We've got donkeys and rabbits and, and you know, we've got acreage and I can go out to the barn like I could, I can walk back and forth, you know, I can help with things and I can never have done that before. So the anxiety as well with the Ehler Stanlow syndrome, if anyone has it, anxiety is a huge part. We have like a internal hyper vigilance because since our body is always working so hard, we're kind of like in fight or flight all the time. And so everyone's on like antidepressants and, and that's something I want nothing to do with. So again, I'm just live life with that. But again, I would have anxiety and I would feel it so I would I tried some yellow kratom, which people don't really talk about yellow that often, but yellow is they call it mellow yellow and it literally was like taking Medicaid. It just it took the edge off calm my nerves. So when my mother passed away, that stuff ramped up pretty bad, the anxiety, and I got through it with the yellow kratom and I don't have to take the yellow kratom anymore, but I do still have some.

32:35 So, yeah, I mean, it is literally filled in those gaps that big pharma had tried to fill, but really wasn't doing a good job because of the side effects. The kratom, I have no side effects. It it does make me drink more water, which is great. You know, I mean, that's the only that's a good thing. You have to drink more water, which that I needed to do that anyways. So you know, that's. That's the downside thing. I've had no negative side effects either. I mean, yes, drink more water, which is a good thing for some of us, a little bit of a Constipation issue, but you know, there's over the counter medications or, or just magnesium, you know, supplements will help with that. Now I I had more side effects when I was taking the opiates for like chronic pain.

33:16 I was allergic, I was allergic to the opiates. So they I itch yes, I could not take. So that's the other thing too, is like this works on the opioid receptors, right? But it's all natural. So that was, I was a little bit of fear. They're trying it. But again, none of none of that. I didn't when I was taking, you know, the, the, the opioids from the doctor. I mean, I literally, there was one time when I, I was going to scratch my skin off because the internal itch was so bad. And it's like, I can't just, if there's a side effect, I'm going to have it. So, you know, and, and to go from all of that to just a complete safe, a leaf, a leaf that we just grind up, it's what do you yeah, let's let's do that.

34:02 It's hard to believe. Like I just remember the first time I heard about kratom, it was from the documentary A Leaf of Faith and they're talking about this plant and how well it works for pain relief. And I just remember thinking that there's no way a plant is going to is going to help my pain instead of the opiates and the opiates, while they work for me, they didn't make all my pain go away. I mean, you know, and all the the many years I was in pain management, pain was always top of mind. I mean, I was always hurting. The meds would just take the edge off of the pain so at least it was tolerable so I could still do things but I was hurting all the time all the time and was so wild with me. For me with kratom 6 1/2 years I've been taking it every day. Never had tolerance break either. I've never needed one.

34:48 Yes dependent but never had any addiction issues with kratom. But it I, I'm just, I forget that I'm a chronic pain patient. I'm, I forget that I'm somebody that suffers with debilitating degenerative disk disease. That's something that doesn't get better. It only gets worse. And I am a little nervous because I haven't been to a doctor for it in these 6 1/2 years because I got dropped from pain management through no fault of my own. Doctors are still doing this war on drugs that never worked. But you know, that's that's the way. It is right now. Yeah, I mean it it, it is what it is. But this plant is just like the thing with me is why do people not talk about this here?

35:34 This has been life changing for me and it and what turned me into this big advocate very quickly when I became a kratom consumer was I looked back at my nine years in pain management, never heard kratom, never heard about I never heard anybody talking about it. And I'm an Internet person. I, you know, that's, that was the work I've always done. I've been in digital marketing for like 29 years. I've been teaching social media the last 20, very immersed in all that. I've never heard of Kratom. I'm like, something's wrong here. How could this plant change my life, Get Me Out of debilitating pain? Yes, it wears off and then I need more because I need to take it again because like, just like you, you were saying, like it wears off now I'm in pain again.

36:17 I'm not feeling like I have to have it, like there's no psychological addiction thing going on is I don't want to be in pain and I would much rather consume a plant than an opiate. I mean, if I have a choice, sure. I just couldn't believe nobody talks about this in the pain community or very little. But I'm like, OK, I got to start a podcast. I need to use my skills to get the word out and help people because people need to be aware of this. And, and you know, what's interesting is since I've been doing the podcast, the live stream, all this stuff being active on TikTok, people have heard about kratom from seeing my videos.

36:57 I've had multiple people say to me, I learned about kratom. I stumbled upon you on social media. I learned about kratom from you. I, I relate to your story. I have chronic pain too. I was, this is what some of them have said. I was able to fire my pain management doctor. I want that. I want that too. Powerful. That's amazing. Mind blown, Mind blown and, and that's not why I went into advocacy. I, I just want to help spread awareness. I want people to know there's an alternative whether you suffer from pain, anxiety, depression, or just want a, a cleaner energy boost instead of caffeine, you know, you'd rather just consume kratom. And I, I just, I love doing this. It's just definitely my passion.

37:39 I love that you're also passionate about advocacy. And I love how you've been helping people, you know, around you with it. Is this just something you do very regularly, just kind of talking it up about kratom and helping others? I've always been This is going to sound funny, but I've always been like the village witch doctor in a way. Growing up. If you if the somebody got stung by a bee or they needed a Band-Aid. I've just always been the motherly nursing, caring energy. So yeah, I mean, animals find me, people find me. And I really that means the most to me to, to for a short time I worked at like a spinal care center. So I actually know a lot about what you're what you have. And I was in the marketing program and I was bringing people in to do our non invasive spinal decompression stuff. And I would have our clients then seek me out, come find me in my office to thank me and say that, you know, this is the first time that I don't hurt and it's thanks to you. And that was like 15 years ago.

38:43 So I've experienced that. And like, that's the best thing on earth, you know, to have somebody just thank you that I don't hurt and in your part of that journey. So, yeah, I totally wanna do that. And so people around me that they just come to me, they'll should I take this? I trust you more than my doctor. People that I went to high school with, they'll message me on Facebook. Hey, my doctor wants me to take this. What do you think? Constantly people are running things by me like that. I have found out that there is just a whole community of kratom users in like illegal states, for instance, that you know that they but they're pain, pain people, you know, they're not addicts, they're not druggies. They're people who have been kicked out of pain management. You know, they're people that have had five failed back surgeries and they're doctors like good luck. They're people like me who every step I took, I was in pain and there was not really an alternative. Everything I took made me sick.

39:43 So yes, shout it from the rooftops. You know that there is an alternative. You can get better and trust your intuition. Like I think that's a big part of it is if, if you want to get better and you know that you can't like your body wants to heal itself. Your body wants to get better. And that's step one mindset that you can get better. And then once you kind of bring that into your your energy field. People will start coming and then things like kratom, you know, just it, it gets brought into your universe and then you experience it. And then you can be that the person that goes 1st and say like, Hey, look what I did and you can do it too. Follow me. I know the way you know, and that's, that's kind of like my, my screen name of Ray light.

40:29 I want to be that Ray light for people, you know, follow me. I, I figured it out. I went from bedridden to, you know, helping out in the barn. You know, it's, it's I've lived multiple lives. You can get better. And kratom has been a pivotal, pivotal aspect of that. And it's, it's pretty much the only thing that I take. I mean, I'm not on any big pharma and it we'll give it this. My family member had a toothache and was going to and I they because of kidney issues, can't take certain medications. And I was like, I got you and I and I gave them some kratom pills and was able to fall asleep and make it through until they could get the tooth removed. So you just little things like that. It's it's so beneficial and I love having the little pharmacy in my pocket, you know, or just, you know, like the knowledge and the know how and the experience and the story to show people, hey, this works and this is how it works and it can work for you too.

41:29 It can help so many people. I I love that I love, I love just. This is such a great conversation. I'm so excited for you. My mom's an energy drink person and she was, she had a brain aneurysm and and died. And I with the Atler stainless syndrome, that could happen to me. I mean an aneurysm that's part of the connective tissue disorder. But I, the one thing that I do regret is not getting her on kratom. I wish that there had not been the stigma. I wish that it had been more known about that I could say, hey, mom, let's get out those energy drinks. Let's try this natural thing that you gave me. No, And I, and I think that it could have possibly helped her. So that's another reason why advocating is so important because it's like, if you feel the need to speak up, go ahead and speak up because you don't know if you're going to have the chance again. Right wow, I'm so sorry about your mom that but that that's powerful and I love that that's part of your motivation to to doing this and helping others.

42:26 I want to talk about like a hot topic subject that that's you know that's always in front of her face all the time right now 708 and I remember a while back on our kratom gals live stream when you were live in the chat, you had talked about how you did a little Recon. You went to one of the local smoke shops in your area because you know, since more and more people are learning about what 7 dot OH is, which is semi synthetic. It's not holy crate, unlike what we consume, but it's it's super popular these days and you know a lot of people are like, OK, I'm going to go see what this is all about. Let me go to my smoke shop and see do are they selling this? I went to a smoke shop nearby me and I asked y'all. I was out of curiosity if they're carrying it because I'm curious like is are people starting to take this off the shelves now because of all the negative stuff that goes with it?

43:16 And a nearby smoke shop says, Oh no, no, we don't carry that stuff. It's no, it's not good. I was like, awesome. That's. Amazing. Because because you know, it's usually the other way around. They want to make their money. And so but now this guy was like, no, and she even says something like you can't even really get them around here, like like they're all taking them off the shelves. I'm like, whoa, but wait. Tell us about what your thoughts on Seven O 8 and then your little Recon to the smoke shop. Yeah, absolutely. So I became aware of the seven O eights from you guys. I didn't even know it was a thing. And here we go again with taking a natural product, ramping it up and making it something that it's not and now making it dangerous basically, or making it highly addictive. And I for for years going and getting kratom, I didn't either I didn't pay attention to it or they had such a small selection of it that I just didn't see it.

44:09 But I definitely was never pointed towards it. OK, a couple months ago I went to my shop and all of a sudden half of the store is 7 O 8 and the kratom supply is a fraction of what it was. And I'm just gobsmacked. And I was like, holy cow, there it is. That's what they were talking about. And so I'm just looking and I've made friends with the with the worker girl. She's just the biggest sweetheart and cuz she'll tell me what good brands they have and she's an excellent customer service. And I was like, my gosh, you guys have that. And she looked at me and she's like, don't. And she was like, if you haven't already done it, don't.

44:50 And, but basically they were stuck on it that they had tried it because it was new to the shop. And she was a creative user, a regular powder creative user the last time I talked to her. And then now months later, she's on the 708. And she said that she told that people come in for it constantly, that it has taken over their, you know, their sales basically that that's what people want. But she said that it's, she said it's so hard to get off of. She said that she, she has not been able to get off of it. And she said that and she did, she told me no. And she said, if you haven't tried it, she goes, we, we tell you not to, you know, she's like stick with the kratom. And I had a lot of respect for her. She was like, basically like, no, I'm stuck on it. Don't you dare touch it.

45:37 And I was like, thank you. And it was just mind blowing. And it kind of made me sick a little bit like, oh, this is and I was in there for 10 minutes. Three people came in and bought just that. Just that. In 10 minutes. 10 minutes and they were like you, they didn't look like druggies or anything. They didn't look like users and you just but that's what they bought. And I was just like, OK, interesting. So this is this is a big deal. Couple weeks ago, I went down to Tennessee to visit a girlfriend and I went on another little Recon. It's sad down there, hardly any powder kratom. It is all 70 H. And every time I walked into a shop and asked for the kratom, they pointed me to the 70 H and I was like, I don't want that.

46:22 And I was like powder. And then they would point me to this little bitty corner of like two different types. I mean, I was it, it was rough. So I was like very disheartened because it's like, this is going to be harder and harder to find this. And now I see that this is absolutely taking over. It's being abused. People are getting highly addicted to it. And it's not just giving kratom a bad name, it's pushing kratom out. I mean, I had to, you know, I'm, I don't know what I'm going to do. I'm going to have to get on some of some vendors. You know, I'm going to have to find some different places because my local are switching over to seven. OH, and it's scary. It's scary to see that because we're trying to get people off of pharmaceuticals, you know what I mean? And here we go.

47:05 Let's just give you another. Here's something that's basically a pharmaceutical. It just happens to be available over the counter at the moment, even though the FDA is like, no, this needs to, we got to have an end to this, but the DEA has to do it. So, you know, they recommend it. The DEA, you know, ban it and put it on schedule one. DEA hasn't done anything yet. And, you know, government moves slow with things like this. I don't think it should be schedule one because schedule 1 means you can't research it. And it sounds like it has potential, but it needs to go through the drug process. And yes, that can take 10 years. It could take billions of dollars. But do it. Don't just put it on the market. Give it drug names. I mean some of the names for these. I saw, I saw it.

47:45 It's very indicative. Yes, Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, the good old, good old days. And and that's just it's a bad look. I mean, it's a bad look and it gives kratom a bad name and and I'm not knocking again if you need pain relief and seven O 8 is what works for you. You know, I'm not knocking that whatsoever because I still feel that that's better than the alternative. But at the same time, I've only heard kind of the horror stories and the fact that it's so strong and, and the fact that the withdrawals are so bad. And, and again, I do, I'm a heavy researcher. So before I, you know, took the kratom, I'd heard about it for years and years. And the person I'd heard it from respectable, you know, good guy.

48:26 So and I have yet to see anyone like that with the 708. Not to be rude or anything, but I haven't seen anyone come out that I respect. It's like, yes, you should take this. So I'm interested to see what happens and and I really hope that it doesn't create an entire band, you know that just. Well, you know, here's what's so interesting. So just a few years ago, right before 70 H was on the market. The negative thing would be the extracts, which not as strong as 70 H, but stronger is taking the whole leaf and isolate the mitragynine, the one alkaloid and and you know, making it super strong and, and people got addicted to it. And we would always hear negative things about kratom because of that.

49:12 But then when there's that negativity, it many times communities when this is get brought up to like a City Council or a state legislator, they look at all kratom. They're like, OK, kratom is kratom is kratom. It's all bad, whereas no, the powder's fine. It's these extracts that some people, not all, but some people abuse and it gives it a bad name. And it's so interesting to watch over these last two years that prior for years, it was always the extracts that give it the bad name. Now it's been the seven O and we just watched it get more and more and more. And here we are recording this in October 2025. And that's all you hear about is 7. OH and more bans for kratom have cropped up this year than ever and most times it's because of the whole 7 O wage thing.

50:01 But you get these people in communities that don't understand there is not all the same and they just think it's all kratom and they want to just ban all kratom. Which is scary for us responsible wholly consumers because we're getting caught up in the middle of all this. It's kind of like back to the war on drugs. Responsible chronic pain patient getting opioids. You know, I researched, I understand what I was getting into. I just didn't want to suffer in pain so much. I never abused my meds. I never took too much. I followed all the rules. But that war on drugs affected so many of us in the pain community that didn't do anything wrong. And then we all lost access and I feel like is this coming back around We like in this like cycle now.

50:47 And now here I find this plant use it is great, is life changing. But wait a minute, here comes the bad element to come over and poo poo on it for all of us is like, what the heck. I I thought I'm set for life now. I got this amazing plant. No, me too. And yeah, I know I have to worry about not accessing my medicine and I mean that's a big fear. And I mean, even with the we talked about the tariffs and stuff like that and just regulations and controls, it's out of our hands that affect us. And it's like, I'm gonna go get a kratom tree at this point. It's like I gotta at least try to be self-sufficient. Give it a try. Yeah, give it. A try and the other thing real quick is the problem we have is these content creators that are just using kratom for content they're like oh what's this new thing? Let's try this 708 and then all of a sudden or the feel free. Feel free.

51:38 Oh my gosh, that yes, 100% somebody goes viral with the feel. Look, the feel free one with the guy that went viral a few months back when he got millions and millions of views telling the story of walking to the convenience store and the kid that stops him. Well, you buy these, feel free. He tried to steal my wallet, blah, blah. I don't even know if that's a true story. Honestly, the way he told it, it didn't sound very truthful. And they started that whole propaganda machine and then all these like Youtubers and Tik Tokers, like I'm going to jump on this and let me make a bit. This happened like at least a year ago, maybe a year and a half ago, this girl made a video about Feel Free and it went viral. It went crazy. We showed it on the kratom gals and then people jumped on it and then it kind of died down. But then you know.

52:23 You're so right. This is what? Happened is people looking for views and clicks and they're, they do they understand they're messing with people's lives when they're doing this. They're giving this a bad name nationally to to the media and to the public. And then we're like, I just want pain relief. Stop messing with my leaf. So that's where I'm in the comments, you know, advocating and, and, and throwing elbows to to advocate for us. It's like, hey, we need this. Like we are not abusers. We are not druggies. We are not junkies. We are chronic pain patients who have been neglected or kicked at. You know, I mean, there's, there's reasons and like I had commented once that I have an extreme chemical sensitivity and I can't take because they were like someone in the comments against the girl you guys just want to hire or you just want.

53:12 And I was like, it's not even about that at all. I said, I'm, I have a chemical sensitivity and I I can't take medication. And he said, oh, well, kratom's a chemical. It's that. And I was like, correct, correct. But there's a difference between natural and synthetic. If we, if we want to go down, I'll start to, you know what I mean? Like I'll go with you. I know the difference, but unfortunately, no, these people are screwing with our lives because it is just content to them. It is views they're making money off of it and it is it's becoming detrimental to us that depend on it. And that's why like I'm gonna be like, OK, I'm gonna do a giant, you know, EDS why we should take kratom and just kind of get out there, you know, so that at least my video can be out there too, that it can help counter that if you can look it up, it can at least help counter.

53:57 And people are like, Oh my gosh, this girl look, she's not. If they can look me up you can find out you know all my background, my history history and and like OK she's legit and hopefully then I can help dispel some of the BS propaganda. So. Area we need more people like everybody watching this right now. Be like that. Be like area. Get your voices out there. Make a video, talk about your experience, start a podcast. You don't have to just do something. Start something. At minimum, make a video or call your your legislators and tell them there's a plant called kratom. Whole leaf Kratom powder is changed my life, please to keep it safe and legal, like do something because if we're just complicit, we do nothing. It could get taken away.

54:38 And the way things have been going in the world, we could wake up one day and they're like, we're banning it for everybody. Just like that and it and it's usually a financial reason, you know, somebody's getting their pockets padded, you know, again, big pharma, whatever it is, and we suffer. So yeah, we have to stand up for ourselves and you can get better. You know, if if we have, you know, your gut, your gut tells you, you know, if you, if you have a Doctor Who's not listening to you, who you know, you've been with maybe for years or just going round and round and you're not getting any better, get a new Doctor. You know, try just get a different opinion maybe. And also don't be afraid to advocate for yourself. You know, I have a friend who she's had neck issues for and she also takes kratom, but she's had neck issues for years and I was like, well, what's wrong with it? And she's like, I don't know, like, what do you mean you don't know you should save my, my C4 and my C5 or, you know, whatever it is.

55:34 And I, I explained to her, I said, the fact that you don't know what's wrong with you is why your doctors have never taken you seriously and why you're just being passed and passed and passed. And so now she wants me to help go through her medical records and help her understand what's wrong with her so that she can advocate for herself because these doctors are just tossed some different drugs. You know what I mean? It's just a marketing scheme. So I willingly will advocate for people, and I'm happy to be here and fight this fight with you, Madeline, and everybody and to help people get out of pain, you know, I mean, it's a love. Live life. Live life, you know, I mean, there you go. Yeah. That's awesome. That's so great. I'm so glad I had you on the podcast. This is a great conversation of Raya.

56:15 My last question, knowing everything you know now about kratom, what advice? And I know that you are helping people, like what advice are you giving Somebody brand new doesn't know anything about this. What do you tell them? I would introduce them to it. First. I would explain it to him where it comes from and my use of it. And then I would explain to them how I feel like it could help them. And then I would, I would share it with them. I would start, you know, give them a dose and see what they thought. And because I've done that, I've done that for quite a few people so far And, and it's, it's turned out good. I did have one friend who he just wasn't interested in it. You know, he, he wasn't into it and that's fine. But be open, you know, again, if, if your, if your gut, if your intuition is telling you that there's got to be more to life or, you know, if there's something else out there, trust that and don't be afraid to ask for help. So, yeah, and, and just if don't be afraid to try it, you know, I mean, if you're living in pain or if you're living with anxiety or depression, and I mean, why not? Why not give it a shot?

57:25 So. Yeah, yeah, exactly. This has been so great. Arraya, thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story. I know this has helped a lot of people. I hope so Madeline, I really do and thank you so much.