Ep 85: Amanda Rainer: Finding Freedom After Thirty Years on Pain Meds

0:00 It's pain management for the rest of your life. You're not getting the pain meds that are supposed to help. And they honestly did it. And I thought, I don't know if my body just got used to them. I've been on them for 30 years. I wasn't getting relief. It was miserable. I felt awful mentally, physically. And now I'm like, I feel like a new me. I feel like I have myself back. Do I, do I have bad days? Absolutely. Am I in pain 24/7? Absolutely. But this is manageable for me now. I can live my life. I can go to a concert. I can, you know, go out and dance. Am I going to pay for it the next day? You betcha. But I wouldn't have been able to go do that. And for me, that's good for my mental health, you know, and my therapist too, She's just like, you know this.

0:44 I've seen such a transformation in you in the last 10 years. And you know, she's like, I can't tell you to to take what you're taking, but keep doing what's working for you because it's fantastic to see this part of you. I'm here with Amanda Rayner, one of our big kratom advocates in the community. So excited to finally have you on the podcast, Amanda, because I want to hear your kratom story. And I know others in our community probably would like to hear it too because your name is out there. You're always doing stuff here.

1:25 So we want to know more about you. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you. Thank you. It's about time. I'm glad to be here. Yeah, well I I can't wait to hear your story and learn more about your kratom journey. So let's start with you telling us a little bit about yourself and life before kratom. OK, well life before kratom. At the age of nine, I was put on pain medication for migraines. At this point they had done a slew of different medications. Nothing was working. They technically couldn't diagnose you as migraines until you're like 15, but this was something I dealt with on a regular basis. So they handed me a nice bottle of 60 Vicodin per month. Per month. My parents, you know, had it and I was taking at least one pill at least a day and sadly was on them for 30 years. Between migraines, fibromyalgia, I live with 10 out of 20 of the most painful conditions to live with trigeminal neuralgia being one of them.

2:20 It's also known as the suicide disease, depression, anxiety, high blood pressure, all kinds of stuff, degenerative and cervical. This disease, you know, that's not even listed as a painful condition to live with and it's more painful than some of my other ones. So I mean, long list of back issues that started about 2425 years ago and it's just, it's, I was told 15 years ago that I have the back of an 80 year old and I was like, oh great. I was told the same thing too. Oh my God, yeah, there's like a back of an 80 year old. I'm like, wow, I only imagine what it is now. I mean, I was 59 and now I'm 5-6 and three quarters. I've also developed scoliosis now as an adult because of the degenerative and cervical disc disease and like the crushing. So that's starting on my my lower back. It's starting to just kind of wind up. Didn't know we can do that it as an adult. I thought it was something you were born with. So that was, that was two years ago. That was the most recent diagnosis. But yeah, there was, you know, 30 years of pain medication what sent me down the rabbit hole looking for an alternative to what I was doing 'cause it wasn't helping, you know, I mean, we had the opiate epidemic. And, you know, my doctor just straight out said I can't give you what you need.

3:33 I can't, I can't give you what you need because legally I'm bound to doctor's rules. And I got it, you know, I totally got it. I did what I could. I was bed bound most of the time. You know, I was a teacher, I was a hair stylist, I was a dental assistant. I had, I get bored. I need something to do. I can't sit still. So I had something always going on. I taught infant through kindergarten and on the side I was doing nannying and I did that and did that for 2425 years and had to give that up about 7 years ago full time, which I miss. I miss it. I much rather be working. I don't want to be disabled. I mean, 47 years old, that's not, that's not the life I thought I was going to have for myself.

4:16 But I started looking for alternatives almost 13 years ago. My mom had passed away from a cocktail of medication over an 8 month span from a small back injury that she had at work, and morphine and tramadol was what ultimately took her life. It was acute intoxication. It was not an overdose. She was not taking more than what she was prescribed. She was taking less. She did not like the way that it made her feel, but that's what took her life. And losing my father seven months and one day prior to that to a diabetes and then my mom, it scared me. It absolutely scared me 'cause it's just me and my son and both my grandparents on my mom's side never made it to 60. My parents never made it to 60 and I've got a kid. So I was like, OK, I need to find more healthier alternative because this is killing me.

5:09 It was, I was literally bed bound. I was depressed. I was taking, God, I don't even know, like 1/1 at one point I was taking six anti anxiety medications a day, breakthrough panic attack types, you know, and it was just, it was a lot, it was a lot. When I found kratom, I was lurking, I, I went online, I started lurking in these kratom groups and I'm, you know, like, Oh yeah, this one little plant is doing everything everybody says like, you know, so and so stop drinking alcohol or, you know, this other person has been helping it with pain and this other person uses that like a pre workout. And I'm like, OK, OK, sure. So I lurked literally for two years and I started, you know, following along and started talking to a couple of people in the, in the community, Stephanie Sue being one of them. She was one of my, one of my very first friends in the community.

6:00 And you know, we kind of, we kind of had our, our creative journey around the same time, you know, 2016 is when we really kind of just like fully dove in and I took my first dose. It was May 5th, it was Cinco de Mayo. And that was 8 1/2 years ago. I've not looked back. I was able to, to go, I think it was like 2 1/2, three weeks after I was able to go to my son's high school graduation, sit on those hard bleachers that there's no way I wouldn't have been able to sit there for 10 minutes without, you know, wiggling around and moving and getting up. And I sat there for the whole 3 1/2 hours of his high school graduation. Four years later, did it for his college graduation. And I wouldn't have been able to do it if I was stuck on pain meds.

6:43 I, you know, I have my life back because of kratom. You know, I'm 100 lbs lighter now I'm able to get out of bed and, you know, do simple things like shower or go to the grocery store where I couldn't do that before. I had my my ex who was doing my shopping, you know, we were together at the time, but he was doing all the shopping, you know, and it took me a good whole week to clean my house. And by the time that week was up, then I had to start again. So switching to kratom versus the pain pills has been a life changer. I've not had to take over 50,000 pills and I've like honestly stopped counting and that's 8 1/2 years. So in 50,000 pills, I mean, that's money missing out of big Pharma's pocket, I'm sure.

7:27 But that's, there's no price on me having my life back. And that that I think, I think I'm going to forever be grateful for. You know, I've utilized kratom for 8 1/2 years and I have started taking 7OH back in the end of 2023. It came on the market. You know, we've got all the other extracts that have been there between the 50, the 50X with the little crystal ones. I mean, I've seen every extract, I've tried every extract and 708 actually has its benefits. I at first didn't, didn't want to even fancy the idea. I thought it was a terrible idea. I was going to jump ship from the vendor that I had been working for for the last, I think it was like 5 and a half, six years at that point because I've been with him about 7 1/2, almost eight years now.

8:16 And I was like, no, this is crazy. I started listening to words of just the AKA and going this is what they're saying is bad. And you know, this is going to ban our plant and I can't be without the plant because, you know, I don't think I'd be alive today if I was still on the pills. I also have Crohn's. So trying 7 O was it was beneficial to me. It was beneficial to me because there was days that I couldn't take kratom and which left me stuck in bed if I was in a Crohn's flare for a week, 2 weeks, 3 weeks a month at a time. And I'm not able to take my powder that sent not only my mental health, but my physical health in a downward spiral. So when I had the seven O the teeniest little, you know, like 3030 milligram scoop and it's like literally, I mean it's like a little, it's like a little dusting. It's so little.

9:06 And that was it. And I was good for about four to six hours and I didn't need anything, but it still gave me what I needed to get whatever I needed done during the day. I don't take it every day. My dose has never changed between kratom and 708. It's been the same for 8 1/2 years. I take 7 1/2 grams of Kratom every time I dose, whether it be one time a day. The most I've dosed in in high pain fashion is 6 times a day. But that's like, you know, a very busy day if I'm out and about doing something or was on vacation with family. So I kinda, I was go, go, go, but I wouldn't have been able to do that with my pain pills. I made it through and it's, it's just been, it's been wonderful being able to find myself again, you know, because you, you're, you're dealt this pain.

9:58 It's pain management for the rest of your life. You're not getting the pain meds that are supposed to help. And they honestly did it. And I thought, I don't know if my body just got used to them. I've been on them for 30 years. I wasn't getting relief. It was miserable. I felt awful mentally, physically. And now I'm like, I feel like a new me. I feel like I have myself back. Do I, do I have bad days? Absolutely. Am I in pain 24/7? Absolutely. But this is manageable for me now. I can live my life. I can go to a concert. I can, you know, go out and dance. Am I going to pay for it the next day? You betcha. But I wouldn't have been able to go do that. And for me, that's good for my mental health, you know, and my therapist too, She's just like, you know this.

10:42 I've seen such a transformation in you in the last 10 years. And you know, she's like, I can't tell you to to take what you're taking, but keep doing what's working for you because it's fantastic to see this part of you. And that's just I'm grateful. I'm just grateful for this plant. I advocate very loud for this plant. I'm sure it pisses people off, but I'm not, I'm not going to not fight for something that not only works for me, but works for what the hundreds of million people that we've got taking this plant. You know, it's like the numbers speak for itself. The science is there. I mean, we are the science, we are the science. Like come interview us.

11:25 Hi, like we are the science. Like do a test on me. Go right ahead. Here's my levels, here's my blood work, like here's my organ scans. Everything is drastically improving. So tell me how this plant is bad for me. That's kind of that's kind of how I see it with with the way that no, this is bad for you or this extract is bad for you. And I'm just like, well, no, no, I'm living my best life over here. My blood work's fantastic. My organs are like reversing the damage that 30 years of pain medication and you know, depression, anxiety, blood pressure medication, all that's gone. I don't have any of that medication. I take an, I take an anti nausea pill other than that and an, and an allergy pill. That's what I take that and the occasional I have the occasional muscle relaxer because my body just doesn't stop. So that that gives me at least, at least solid 3 hours of sleep a night.

12:18 But other than that, I'm just going and I'm just, you know, living my my daily life the best that I can with what I've been dealt with. Wow, what an amazing story. Amanda, I, I, I love that this plant has given you your life back. I can totally relate because I it has for me as well. I wasn't on pain meds as long as you were. I was for nine years every day and for my degenerative disc disease and I have it in both my neck and back. And just like you, like so much of you were saying parallels my experience. It, it helped, but it wasn't that great. I, I was able to do some things, but I couldn't do everything and I was doing less and less stuff. And it's very depressing and, and you're constantly in pain and you just can't get out.

13:02 Like I always felt like there was a black cloud over me all the time. And it's, it's hard to live life like that. And yeah, when this is a degenerative thing, it only gets worse. It does. And I, I just like you had a top surgeon in my city tell me very close to you about 13 years ago, said to me, looking at my X-rays and Mris, this, this looks like somebody in their 80s. I'm like jaw drop like what? And he's like, there's nothing I can do. I'm like, how'd this happen? Well, you're he this he quote, you were dealt a bad hand. That's what he said to me.

13:44 And he said before he stormed out of the room. Because I he would only give me like literally one minute of his time. If I were you I would get off the pain pills and do yoga and swimming. Yeah, just exercise. Lock the door. And I'm thinking, what the F just happened? And I was in shock. And I'm like, this is healthcare at its finest, you know? They just don't care. Yeah. They don't care. No, I mean, when I was told that, you know, surgery wasn't an option for me, in a sense, I was very grateful because I had heard nothing but disaster stories because like with degenerative and cervical disc disease, it's a ladder effect.

14:26 And I mean mine, you know, mine started at the, at the shoulders and it went to the neck. And then I've got my lower, you know, everybody, I think everybody's dealing with L1S5 issues, you know, in that area, everybody's got that. And it's just a ladder effect. So they said if they fused it, it would just be fused and fused and fused. And then basically you'd be so stiff you wouldn't be able to move and you'd be in more pain. And I had two surgeons tell me that and as much as I was irritated with not getting any help, that was the best help I could have gotten. No surgery because I would have been in way more pain than I am in now. Right. Yeah. And a lot of doctors push for that because that's how they make their living. And I went to a surgeon before this other one that said basically the same thing. The only thing I can do to help you would be a fusion. But he says I don't recommend it. And, and basically like what you just laid out because it, it just does that domino effect and it gets to the point where you're way worse off.

15:22 And I'm just, I'm glad I didn't do all that, but I did do the steroid injections and the radio frequency ablation. Oh yeah, I had that done a year and a half ago and it's actually doing really well. I'm kind of like surprised. I was really surprised. I mean, I had the the radio frequency ablation. I did the epidural steroid injections. I mean, currently I'm going through trigger point injections up here. What a, what a game changer. I was like, oh, this is great, you know, and next I'm going to start doing needling and acupuncture because it really gets down into the core of the muscle that's just kind of bunched up like a giant knot, which then pulls everything in our back together and makes it, you know, hurt. Yeah.

16:03 And it's just finding what works for you. You know, I did all of those and I, I did a total. I found all, like all my paperwork when I moved a few years ago. And I was like, I had done a total between the epidural steroid injections and the radiofrequency ablations. And this is neck, back and SI joint. Over the course of about two or three years, I did a total of 12 of all of those. And the only thing that ever epidural steroid injections never helped me ever, ever. And you know, most times not everybody seems to get anesthesia. Thank God I always did 'cause people would say some horror stories of like, oh, my doctor doesn't do anesthesia for that. And I'm like what? Yeah, I was too terrified. I, I made them stay awake. I, I was like, no, I'll be awake and watch the whole thing. I mean, I, I, I had, I had a £9 kid with no epidural. I was terrified because of my back issues. Them going in just blindly could paralyze me, you know, could paralyze anybody.

16:59 But then you have my back issues on top of it. And I was like, no thanks. I ended up with Lyme disease and Bell's palsy. I made them do it over do it over the thing. Oh, so, you know, dealing with long term Lyme conditions, you know, inflammation, long term COVID issues, inflammation. It's just, you know, the littlest bit of, you know, illness sets us off. Like us, people who have the inflammation and the pain, like it's a set back. It's such a set back. We got to just do what we got to keep doing just to keep ourselves in a good space, you know, like mentally, physically, this is what works for us. It's what I'm going to keep doing, you know? And that's what I love about kratom. I mean, who knew this little plant could help us so much, not just with pain, but to just make us feel better and not have that black cloud over us anymore.

17:45 Well, you gotta think without the pain, your mood is automatically like, you know, and I'll and I'll use and I'll and I'm gonna use the word euphoric because I hear that a lot in the community. I see that a lot in the community and I'm like, well, what is euphoria 'cause I'm like, what are you talking about? Like for me, if I'm like, you know, can't say pain free because I'm always in pain. But if my pain is tolerable and manageable and I can do something, well, hell, that's euphoric to me because that's a great mood. It's a, it's a huge mood boost. You know, it's, it's that it's, it's pure happiness And that to me that's, that's what euphoria is. I'm like, you know, that's my happiness. I don't know what everybody else is getting out of it, but I'm like, I'm not in pain.

18:27 OK, this is fantastic. You know, this is what this is what I need. That's a great way of putting it because I, I think euphoria is such a generic term and whenever I hear that I think psychedelic or getting really high or something and I'm just like you, Kratom takes the pain away from me and I get serious pain relief. I, I still, I, I just assumed everybody gets what I get and like my, my pain level goes to like a zero, maybe a one or two. It lasts for about 5 or 6 hours and I, I'm completely blown away because with my heavy duty pain pills, we're talking Oxycontin. I think the highest Oxycontin I was on was like a 40 milligram twice a day. And then I was taking probably about 6 Percocets a day for the breakthrough and, and muscle relaxers. My MME was almost 200.

19:14 It was really high, but I'm also a very quick processor. I did the pharmacokinetic testing my, my pain management doctor was smart enough to have me do that because it protects him, you know, and it shows that I processed them quickly. But when I was getting to the point that I needed a Percocet every 2 1/2 to 3 hours, it was very concerning because I, my tolerance would get, get, you know, really jacked up. But to find a plant that just takes so much of that away from me. So I'm like, I'm seriously like, I don't feel like somebody that that is a chronic pain patient anymore. I feel, well, much better and I can just be comfortable and I can relax. I mean, yes, I get flare ups. Yes, I struggle still like, but nothing like the level I did before.

19:59 So it's so interesting hearing your story because it's just so similar. And I think people that don't suffer pain at the level you and I do don't understand. No, they don't. No, they don't. I and it's and I don't wish it on anybody, like not even my worst enemy, like, you know, like I, I would not want anyone else to feel the pain that I feel because it's not, it's not a fun way of living. You know, it's like, I remember being, you know, being with my pharmaceuticals, I'm like, OK, I have Vicodin and then, you know, in the middle of that it's Tylenol and oh, hold on, in the middle of that breakthrough, here's a perc 30 and oh, wait, two hours later take an ibuprofen because we have to constantly stay on top of it.

20:40 So you got a 4-5, you know, 6 hour dose span between your first pill and your last pill and what all is taken in between. And I'm like 15, you know, I'm about 15 pills deep by the time 5 or 6 hours has gone by. I take 3 level scoops of my my powder and I do the toss and wash. I just toss it right back and swallow. You know, I can shake it up and make the muddy water. I could. You know, I've done the kratom too, just it doesn't work for me. It's just not strong enough. Plus I feel like I'm having to go pee constantly because I'm constantly having to drink water. But it's like you take 3 little teaspoons and I'm good.

21:20 Sometimes I'm good from my morning dose and I'm good for the day. And that's all I need. That's all I need. And it's like, well, I'm not a walking pharmacist anymore. I'd walk around this big, you know, separate purse from my purse just to carry all of my pharmaceuticals around just to get through. And it's like, you know, it's like you're robbing Peter to pay Paul type of a situation. You're like, Oh well, let me let me justify. I'm in a crap ton of pain right now. I need this. I need this because I can't get up and raise my son or go to work that I had to do as a single mom and dad. I had to go to work. I had no choice. I work 3 different jobs to make sure that my kid was supported.

22:04 So it's like I'm sitting there going Oh well if I take this pill now then that means I can't take one in the morning. And it's like, that's not a way to live. That's not a way to live. I don't want someone dictating like how I could take my medication and what's going to work for me because they're not me. They're not, you know, it's like it's these are the rules. You can only take a pain pill every four to six hours. That's not working for me. I'm going to take a couple of scoops of Kratom and that's good for me. And I don't need, I don't, I don't have to ask anybody. I don't have to go to a prescription and fill it. I don't have to feel bad if I need an extra dose of something because I would mentally, I would beat myself up and I would be so depressed. I wouldn't go out and do anything like I would work and I'd go home and be mom.

22:48 And that's I can't even have the energy for that. But that's all I could do. And I did that for years and years and years. And now it's like, you know, my son's 26 years old and, you know, I, I saw him graduate high school and graduate college. I wouldn't have been able to do that without kratom. I probably would not be here alive today if it wasn't for kratom. The pills were killing me. The pills killed my mother. And I was, I was on the way out. If I did not switch something up after 30 years of pain medication, I needed to change. Yeah, yeah. And I'm so glad you found kratom. Now, going back to when you first discovered it, I know you were talking about doing all that research. Do you remember like the very, very first time you heard about it?

23:33 I did. I did. A friend of mine had told me about it. They're like, oh, you know, check out the American Kratom Association. There's a couple of vendors on there, you know, and I tried one of their vendors and I ended up in the hospital for a week because I got sick from mold and E coli and I'm like, OK, like I'm like, I didn't, you know, I wasn't non on a piece of chicken or anything. I raw chicken like it came from the product and, you know, back then like A and it and a lot of the consumers are who really started holding vendors responsible. You know, back when I started taking it in 2016, it was in a you know, it wasn't a Ziploc bag was Sharpie written on it, you know, and it's like like, OK, great.

24:21 Like do you trust this person? Everything is word of mouth, like no, like and I got I got accused of being especiosa Republic or the Sr. group because I mean, I was asking vendors left and right. They wanted me to try their Kratom will find. I need pictures of your pictures and video of your lab room with some sort of proof that this is yours and not just some Google image. And I want current labs and I like I got a lot of grief for it. But you know what though? Like if it meant protecting what I was putting in my body, then that means other people I know that I was referring to, Hey, this is really working for me. This is what works for me. I can share it, I can give you my knowledge, you can give it a try and take what works for you and go with it and see if it works. And I, I almost didn't try it again after I got sick. I didn't, I was terrified.

25:09 I, I almost waited almost a full year. And so I technically the first time I tried it was 2015. Didn't, didn't go back to it after I ended up in the hospital. And then a a nice, nice lady that was in the Kratom community, you know, kind of took me under her wing and she's like, she taught me everything. You know, I mean, I journaled everything and wrote it all down and, you know, just really just dove into wanting to know anything and everything about it. And that's, you know, I started working for a vendor and I started working for another vendor just, you know, kind of just helping people out, you know, just helping, you know, spread the word of Kratom. And then I was like, you know, like we're all about lab testing, we're all about compliance. And, and I, and I hold vendors.

25:50 I, I do, I hold them responsible because it's just like going out to dinner, you know, somewhere to a restaurant. You're not going to go walk into a door that's got like AD rating and they're, you know, they're cleanliness is nasty and they've got, you know, you want to know that the food you're putting in your mouth is going to be OK. Well, it's the same, it's the same that goes for Kratom. You know, it's the GMP compliant standards. It's not hard to follow. It's really not proper labeling, you know, proper packing, proper storage. It's not, it's not that it's really not that hard. It's not, you know, it's few extra steps. If this is what you want to do in your business and you want to provide for people to have better lives than, you know, providing the, the, the safety is going to, it's going to, it's going to make a lot of people at at ease. And it did me, you know, and that's why I ended up in 2016. I ended up trying Cat's Kratom and that's where I started back out again and haven't looked back. I have not looked back.

26:52 I use quite a few vendors. You know, I support, I support a lot of vendors. You know, everybody's like, oh, you work for a vendor, you only use their product. And I'm like, no, I don't. In fact, the vendor that I use also buys from other vendors because we support each other in this community because this is a family, you know, this has turned into a family. I love my kratom community, absolutely love this community I've got. I've got more friends in this community now that I'm closer to than I than people I've ever even met in real life. It's it's an amazing community. It really is, yeah. I I love our Krame community. People are just so amazing here. Wow, your story is just so incredibly interesting.

27:33 So you had a terrible experience and I can totally see where it's like being compliant, like being more interested in these companies being GMP certified compliant. How can we not? Like of course, the AKA has their GMP certified. I've done a lot of research. I've, I've learned a lot about this more recently to understand it because I know there are companies out there that are, that are following like it's a self regulated industry. I wish there was more regulation, but we're trusting the companies and, and the manufacturers with the AKA. My understanding is they're just certifying that you did go through the whole GNP compliance, you know, through all the proper channels. And so this is an extra layer of protection. And there's their list on their website, but I also know vendors that are not on that website that are GNP compliant. And I think there's this misconception that if they're not, and this is not to knock the AKA, but people, I think I'm assuming that if they're not on that list, then they're not following GMP and that is not the case. Yeah, yeah, I've, I've, I've found that a lot with people in the community, you know, they're like, oh, well, you know, I strictly go off of the AKA list and I'm like, well, I support that, you know, like good.

28:50 Because they're setting a good precedence for holding vendors accountable to what is acceptable and what's not. But there are, like you said, there are so many vendors that are not on that list. They're not. And I, I definitely support the vendors, you know, I mean, you know, I, you can ask for a live video of their clean room, you know, and make sure that they've got like their logo or something in the background, even them, you know, like, hey, you know, hey, this is my clean room. If, if they're a compliant vendor, they're not going to mind doing that. You know, you've got your shed vendors, your home kitchen vendors and they're still out there, you know, and everybody goes off of word of mouth and and oh, you know, so and so is nice or so and so is cheaper. And it's like sometimes, you know, that's all great and everything, but it's not, it's not what's helping our community, it's what's hurting it because we have those that are still not properly practicing the safe standards. Yeah, it's so incredibly important. You don't want people getting sick. It's terrible that you ended up in the hospital from that. Another one of our community members has has gone through something similar where she got tainted kratom years ago, got very, very ill.

30:01 And that's something none of us should go through ever. Like if you're going to be in business doing this, do everything right. And so learning more about GMP is make is prompting me to because I do have like my own approved, like Madeleine's approved kratom vendors like, and it's my just the ones that I buy mine from that I've done the research and and I like the ones that are transparent and super legit. And some are on the AK as list and some are not. But the ones that are not I know are doing everything right. But I'm now learning like OK, I'm going to send some questions to all these companies and you just mentioning ask for a video the clean room.

30:44 Brilliant. I'm adding that to my list now I want to I want to do what the AKA does. I want to have that extra layer for my Peace of Mind. But also to anybody that you know sees my list and want to they trust me. So they want to buy off of the ones I recommend that there is that extra like they are following these at least the best 2 are yeah, instead of just OK, they said they are or they're nice people or like you know, some of the things you mentioned. So I think it's incredibly important. So thanks for sharing all that. I never thought about asking for a live video of the clean room. Yeah, yeah. I mean, you know, you're gonna, you're gonna get first hand, you know, and I mean, I've seen, I'm sure you've seen happy hippos like all their ton of their videos.

31:27 They have fantastic, they have fantastic videos. And you don't even have to ask them. They're just willingly putting it up. You know, there's a lot of vendors that'll have labs right on their site, you know, and granted, depending on how fast they're going through product, it's a it's a lot to keep up with on this website. You know, working for a vendor, I do all the customer service, all the online customer service. It's a it's a lot, It's a lot. You know, it's like we get a new product in and it's like, OK, well, this lab isn't on the site yet. Yeah, no problem. We'll get you the lab. It's just haven't had time to put it up, but we got it. You know, we don't sell anything that doesn't have labs. There's I can't even tell you how much product has been thrown out over the years because it fails labs, you know, and it's like you don't get your money back. You just toss it in the trash and you're out thousands and thousands of dollars, you know, and these are what vendors go through.

32:16 You know, this is unfortunately, this is the business right now. You know, it's, it's tough. It's very tough, especially with, you know, the import laws going on. And it's it's getting ugly out there. It's getting really ugly. Yeah, but as us being the end consumers, we wanna know what we're getting is safe and not gonna harm us. Well, let's now talk about 708. So you said you discover 708 a few years ago and that seemed to be right when it was emerging, right? Yeah, it came out like mid it like I started hearing about it kind of like mid 2023 I started hearing talks about it and then, you know, the tablets came out and it was it was a game changer. Like I was like, oh, I'm not going to try this, I'm not going to try this.

33:01 And I was like, oh, you know, I mean I even was like, I'm not going to work. I'm not going to work for this vendor because you know, it's a it's a product that's adulterated. It's not pure yes, there is a small amount that is already naturally occurring in in kratom. You know, and just like the MIT extracts, they're extracting it the same exact way as they are 7 O. So if the MIT extracts are safe and you do your, you know, your research, you know, you go online, you, you, you read all the good, all the bad, you know, do judge it yourself. You know, you are, you are your best judge of character for your own personal self, what goes in your body, what you're going to do.

33:43 And I stopped and I listened. And again, you know, kind of like when I joined the kratom community years ago, I kind of just sat back and lurked. And I was like, OK, you know, like, my boss was telling me all kinds of stuff about it. And I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, like, sure, sure, sure. You know, I'm like, this is just going to end up a disaster. You know, I'm like, fine, let me hear what you have to say. I was like, fine, you know, like, I'll try it. I will try it at least once. I always say I'll try something once. If it's not for me, I won't try it again. I tried it once and I happened to try it on a day that my Crohn's was so bad and my pain was so bad. I had been in bed for three days, couldn't get up. My mail came, my son had brought in the mail and lo and behold, there was a tablet.

34:27 I split it in half. I took half of that tablet and I was like, Oh my God, Oh my God. Like I feel fantastic. I wasn't, you know, like I wasn't high. I wasn't, you know, I wasn't like, you know, you know, when you take a pain Med and you can feel it in the head, I didn't get any of that. I didn't get any of that. You know, I just had relief, not only with my stomach, I was actually able to get up and go eat something, which is fantastic because like 3 days like in a Crohn's flare, it's pretty, pretty bad. It's pretty bad. You know, the meds don't work that they give me. I bet I've been on everything. I've been on every medication that they could possibly toss for me and you know, take this medication for this side effect and it's like no, no, and finding the seven O it like I was so nervous about it because I was like, oh, it's going to take away my plan.

35:17 It's going to take away kratom. But then I was like, well, like, you know, look into it really fine, You know, what is what is the hype? What is all this talk about? And I I did a lot of research and I tried it and I was like, OK, like it's not what I'm it's not what, you know, these people are saying, it's not all of this. And I'm like, OK, so this isn't any, this isn't anything different than taking a MIT extract for me, you know, and it is all about accountability. It is, you know, with Kratom, with, with working out, with food, with no matter what you do in life, it's all about accountability, you know, and it's, there's a lot of people out there that just they want it gone because they, you know, the fear of it taking away their plant, which I had. But it's like, stop for a minute and see what is this really doing?

36:03 Is it helping people? Yes. Is the overdose rate down? Yes. Is Narcan also helpful in that? Yes. But the five, what is it 500 billion doses? I think they had said on 7 on 7 Alliance when Wednesday was on, I think it was like 7 like 500 billion doses or something like that sold and consumed and we're having positive results. If we have that many doses, we're going to see people flooding the hospitals and we're not you know, you hear, you hear few things, but you're not seeing the proof to back it up. When I see proof like, hey, there's people in here, there's people dying, there's people respiratory depression, but there's not there's no respiratory depression.

36:50 It's a semi synthetic just like a MIT extract. And I'm, I'm grateful for it. I am on my hard days. I, I'm grateful for it because that gives me the extra boost that I need to get going because if I'm in a flare both physically with my Crohn's, mentally I'm done. Like I'm done. I just, I'm done and it's defeating. Now I can actually get up and face the day even on my hard days. That's great that it's helping you, but we also hear on the flip side, there's so much potential for abuse. You hear these stories all the time from people saying I went to a smoke shop, they gave me a free sample and I was hooked on it right away. And I can't stop.

37:31 And we here's what's so interesting, though, Amanda and I know you know this, it parallels the same conversations with the extracts prior to seven. OH, we heard story after story about people getting addiction issues with extracts and there was so many complaints about it. And now we don't hear about extracts nearly as much, but it's 7. OH, and all these people talk about they got hooked on it. But then we hear so many stories like yours where people say this has helped me. I can't get my pain meds anymore. This is all and powder doesn't work on me and this does. So it's it's interesting how this evolution has happened.

38:12 But what are your thoughts about the people that are struggling with abuse with this? A lot of them say they didn't even know it was what it was. Well, yeah, a lot of these people, you know, I mean, if I had a friend of mine, same thing. And and I was livid as someone who consumed 7 ohi was livid that he walked into a vape shop to go buy his little vape pod, you know, his nicotine and walked out with a few little sample size gummies. And he's like, hey, I just got this from the from the vape stop. And I'm not, you know, I was at a Kava kratom bar here and I'm like, what do you mean? Like give me that. I'm like, you don't need this. Have you ever, you don't even take kratom? And he goes, well, what is it? And I'm like, it's an extract. Like if you've not even taken kratom, don't take the seven. OH, if you have an addictive personality and you can't hold yourself responsible, don't take it.

38:58 Don't take it because just like they said back in 2016, 2017, they used the same exact language that they are using with plain leaf kratom now that they are using with seven O this is gas station heroin and it's stronger than morphine. They used it. They used the same exact language in 2016, seventeen when we were fighting that huge ban and then we all won. You know, it's like the DEA was it, the DEA wanted to schedule it. They didn't like the FDA. They used to be all about, oh, we're this, you know, kratom's bad, kratom's bad. And now the FDA is like, no kratom has potential. Like it's got benefits, You know, I mean, here, you know, that we've, I've been going to ban hearings left and right.

39:43 And in Nashua, NH, we had, I think it was 3 hearings just for one. And the, the Board of Health got involved. We were able to, you know, Jen Mercier, freaking powerhouse, A powerhouse advocate. I love her. She's fantastic. Her and Dylan, both of them fantastic. But Jen, you know, she's like rallies us all together and we go and we show up and, you know, she's there and she's getting the appointment with the, you know, the Board of Education and talking, you know, talking to them with the Board of Health about, you know, educating them and on this plant and we won. It was going to be banned. We had an Alderman bring it to our attention to bring this thing, you know, hey, this is a ban. We're going to start here.

40:25 Brings his young daughter to testify, you know, and say, I think it should be banned. And I'm just like, oh, this poor girl. Like great for her. She wants to be up here and, you know, but it was not the place for her. It was not the place for her. But you know, we also dealt with, you know, the United Way being donated $200,000 to vote against kratom. That was 9 votes, 9 automatic votes just from the United Way. Had we not shown up, the 12 of us that showed up, it would have been an immediate ban. And it's, it's, it's just, it's amazing to see the people come together. It's amazing to see how, how against something that's working for people. But I mean, it's taking away from big pharma, it's taking away, you know, the California one. What was it?

41:16 Oh, big pharma, you know, they, they've got prescription medication. There's methadone and Suboxone for those. Oh my gosh, I, I got like my jaw about hit the floor with that one. I'm like, OK, so you know, rot the teeth out of my face, lose my complete everything, and let's just go on another pharmaceutical that isn't working for me. This does not work for me. Suboxone and methadone is not going to solve my pain issues. It's going to rot my teeth and cause more pain issues than what I'm already dealing with. And it's just, I don't understand it. You know, a lot of these states, Massachusetts, California, all recreationally legal for marijuana, which gets you high, but it's legal. New Hampshire, we have liquor stores on our highways. Just pull right off the exit, get your booze and pull right back on the highway.

42:07 You know, it's like, I'm just going to keep my plants, you know, like, I don't understand. I don't understand how how the world is working the way that it is. But it's a lot of greed, a lot of misinformation and a lot of people higher up that just kind of steamroll over us that have absolutely no clue about this plant when it comes to legislation of issues. Like none of them had heard about kratom except for the Alderman that brought it to our attention to bring up a ban. None of them knew what it was. None of them. So they're they're banning stuff. They have absolutely no idea what it is. They're going off of, you know, the news. Oh, this is the gas station heroin. You know, this is stronger than morphine. And I'm just like, this was stronger than morphine. I'd be laid out right now just, you know, passed out. I wouldn't be able to function.

42:53 I wouldn't be able to function with morphine. I can function. It is. It's a lot of misinformation. You know, you see us, you know, you see us all first hand. There's billions of us that take kratom. There's billions of us that take 7 O and we're the science. Like come speak to all of us. Like stop just sitting here going off of, you know, the media hype or you know, you know, it's like game of telephone. One person says it and the misinformation just keeps going and it spreads and it's sad. It's really sad to see right now. Well, that's, that's a big reason why I started the Kratom gals live stream a few years ago because I couldn't believe how much misinformation and propaganda is online when it comes to kratom. And I thought I need to have a way for us to watch these videos and talk about it and really stomp out all that misinformation because it's just wrong. People watch the news or they read the paper and they're, they just believe everything they see because the media put it out. I can't believe how many news stories every single week. I, I always start off the show playing news stories like here's a news story that just came out this week and the amount of misinformation is unreal.

44:01 There was one recently where it was all about 7. OH, but the whole time on the news story, they're showing kratom powder. Yeah, product. Yeah, I remember that one. It's like, what is what is happening here? The general public doesn't know. They they're watching this, going OK, this stuff's bad. And then calling us friends and family like that stuff's on the news. That's bad. Yeah, they all look at us like we're, you know, like these these addicts that are just abusing this plant to get high. And that's just not the case at all. You know, like, granted, is there someone out there abusing it, probably misusing it for whatever? Yeah. But, you know, that's them. That's their accountability that they have to come to when you've got the thousands, billions of thousands of us that are doing things the responsible way. You know, like I, I, I hate being lumped in with everybody. You know, it's, it's, it's tough. It's tough.

44:56 Yeah, well, seven OH definitely is in the news all the time. And what was your thought several months back when the FDA and HHS made a big deal publicly, you know, saying kratom powder's fine, but we want to ban 7. OH, and we're recommending the DEA schedule one. What was your thought when that happened? Several months. To me, I knew it was coming. There was threatening letters that were sent out to a few vendors that were already, you know, selling 7 O in 2023. And we got threatening letters saying that we were going to be reported to the FDA if we didn't stop selling it over the 2%. And it's like, OK, well, who are you guys to sit here and, you know, say, you know what it is? This isn't a law.

45:39 Like it wasn't a thing when it started. I mean, I knew that it was going to be exactly what it's going to what it is right now. It's going to be a huge fight. You know, I, I tell a lot of people, if I had to not have 70 H to save Kratom, absolutely because kratom is valuable, you know, could. But banning it, you know, like banning 70 H, it's that stops the studies on it. It's only going to send it to the black market and then you got to worry about, you know, stuff that you are finding, you know, that shouldn't be in the gas stations.

46:19 I think you know, kind of like when you go to like a you know, CVS and you need to decongestant now you have to like give your ID. You know, we should have it 21 plus. We should have it, you know, in, you know, specific places, whether it be like, you know, just a regular, you know, smoke vape shop type of a situation, but no gas stations. I don't think gas stations should have it. I don't think that it should be available the way that it is at the gas stations and just handing it out. I think these people need knowledge before they're even even get even selling kratom. Like it doesn't take much to read up a little about on kratom. I've been into many smoke shops and vape shops out here between the bands just going in and talking, you know, asking people to come and they don't even know what they have in there. You know, I'm like, well, what does this one do, you know, do you have labs on this?

47:07 Oh, no, it's just sitting on the shelf. We just sell it, you know, and that that's where we need the help is we need to regulate it in these stores to come out of these smoke shop gas stations that have no education. It's like, you know, if you're going into, you know, a dispensary, it is geared towards the product that you're going to buy. And these people are very knowledgeable on it. There should be places like that, like vendors, you know, they're all compliant. They have, you know, the compliant vendors will have the education, will have the proper labs, the clean room, everything. Like I always just say to everybody, do your due diligence and make sure you know what you're taking. I won't go to the smoke shop.

47:47 I don't care if I'm out. I'm not going to the smoke shop or to the gas station because I don't know what's in those products. You know, like they're not there. There's the seven O and and of course it get just gets everybody's lumped into one category. There's the seven O that you're seeing, you know, with like Smurfs. So these weird, you know, these drug, you know, prescription names that are like, yeah, like the perks, you know, and it's like that's it's stupid. You're biting your own self in the foot to do that, First off, and you're making a bad look for it because that's not anything that it's like, it's not like it's not like a Percocet, because if it was like a Percocet, I'd be in pain the whole time and I'd still need more when I'm done. And I I don't need more.

48:28 You know, there's a ceiling affected only with kratom and with with seven O, you can only take so much of it before it doesn't work for you. You know, it's like it caps off and what's going to happen, you're going to get what we call the wobbles. You're going to feel, you know, queasy, you might throw up. That's it. After that it's done. You know, that's that's the worst that's going to happen with, you know, the Kratom or the seven O. If you've taken too much, you're just going to feel like crap for about an hour and then it's gone. You know, just, you know, like write down things in a book, you know, keep track of your dose and know where you're buying your product. That that's just key. Don't support, you know, for everybody. Don't go support these people, you know, like walk into the gas station and buy it because that's supporting their business.

49:09 Go to a vendor. You know, a lot of people don't even realize that there's vendors out there that they can buy stuff from. And you know, the vendors that are doing it right right now are getting lumped into the gas station sales of the seven O And that's that's the hard part because there's a difference, just like there's a difference from a compliant vendor to like a home or shed vendor, you know, and in this community we hold, we hold ours responsible. I wish, I wish they, the outsiders saw how much work we all as consumers put in to holding our vendors responsible. So we know that we're getting safe product. We've gotten rid of seven O, we've gotten rid of seven O products because you know, say the solvent level was too high, you know, it didn't pass, that's done.

49:51 You know it done. We're not selling it. Get rid of it. Like that's just, that's how we do it. If it does not pass the labs for compliance, it's it's not on our site, it's not up there, we're not going to sell it, we're not going to consume it. We're not going to even have it in our in our shop. It gets out the second it fails. Yeah, I think it's why it's important for there to be regulations in place so things are being done properly. I think when these industries are self regulated, there's just so much room for error and problems. I think 7 O products should have never been in gas stations and so easily accessible, even with the kratom extracts. I mean, the having, I think dispensary, you know, smoke shops ways of like doing it where there's more accountability with it and not having drug names, I think that was just a terrible thing that adds the fuel to the fire of why these products are so demonized.

50:44 But then you got Florida. What, what, what? This whole Florida thing where just out of nowhere they do a press conference and said midnight tonight we're banning it. That was that was that was crazy. And then, you know, one of the gentlemen that were up there was saying, you know, I just lost somebody. I think it was like less than a week prior to seven. Oh, and I'm like, no, you can't get a toxicology report back that quick. You can't. I don't care. I don't care who you are. There's no way you're getting a toxicology report back in less than a week. So do you think he just said that just to draw more attention that the scare? Tactics, scare tactics. You know, it's, it's sad, it's sad. It's sad, but here's what's interesting.

51:24 So we don't ever hear about deaths attributed to seven. OH, and then all of a sudden recently LA County claimed there were like, what, 3? Three of them, Yeah. And then they all proved to be wrong. It was not 7. OH. So I saw that article where it got disputed. But that but they never, they never brought that back to anybody's attention. They were like, Hey, these people died from 7 O oh, we didn't come back to say, oh, hey, we, we misinformed you. This is what was in their system. This is why they passed away. It had nothing to do with 70. It was just in their system. And same with plain leaf kratom. A lot of people's deaths are oh, you know, it was kratom. It was, you know, Mitch, Mitch, the big M word that's really hard to pronounce.

52:06 You know, the Mitch that's in your system. That's what you know, that's what they're dying from. No, it's in their system. And unfortunately, the world is a little shady and people get paid to do certain things. The CDC, you know, it's been known that they've been paying for certain reports. And it's like, it's a lot of things that keep getting uncovered, you know, like it, it's just, I don't get why they're working against us. But then it's like it, you know, when it all comes down to it, it's money, it's big pharma. It's things that are out of our control. Absolutely. Well, what about, like, some of these supposed kratom deaths from years ago? It turned out one of them was a gunshot wound to the chest. Yeah, but kratom killed him.

52:47 Yeah. I I don't think, like, there's just a handful of these really bizarre ones. It makes you realize like, wow, there's a lot of corruption going on and a lot of misinforming people to make this sound like is is such a bad thing. And that took what, 2 minutes for us to be like, you know what, wait, that doesn't sound right. Like that's just, you know, hold on, let me do this myself and like really look into this. And it's, you know, it's, it's like anything that they put on the news, it's a narrative that they're putting out that they want you to hear. You know, whether it be politics or kratom or car accidents or, you know, whatever, you know, the, the world, you know, the sky, whatever is going on, they'll put it on the news because that's what they want you to hear versus what we're saying or what, you know, our, our proof has shown, you know, endless, you know, amount of studies.

53:32 You know, McCurdy has done a lot of studies. You know, Michelle Ross has done a lot of studies. There's so much out there. You know, doctor Jack Henningfield and Marilyn Hustis and, and you know, these are all top, top respected people who are saying that this plant is safe, including 708. We have doctors studying this saying that this is safe. Yeah. Isn't Doctor Kristian Smith doing a study right now? Like an abuse study I think, or something, right? I mean, you know, anything has has the potential for abuse. Anything does working out water. I mean, people die from drinking too much water, you know, and it's like people aren't going, oh, well, let's ban water, let's ban alcohol, let's ban cigarettes. You know, they're not doing this. So it's like, why are you trying to ban something that's benefiting more than it's harming? Is every everybody's harmed by something? Could this harm somebody?

54:25 Absolutely, but it's on them. You know, that's their accountability. You know, like you can't you know, 111 person can ruin it for the bunch is what really is happening here. And that's why there's a lot of us advocating strong right now and trying to have our voices heard and having a platform like this where you bring us all on here and we can share our stories. It there's many people that I've seen just comments, you know, in the comments that are like, Oh, I really didn't know much about it until I started watching this podcast, you know, and I started watching these stories and hearing, you know, the hundreds of people that have been, you know, whether in the comments or on, you know, on speaking with you or, you know, the kratom gals and everything. And it's like people are stopping and going wait, you know, they're going to open up, open up their own eyes to see what really is going on.

55:09 And that's we need more of it. You know, like with Jordan doing his, you know, documentary and it's like he's always doing his, you know, his, his funny Tik Toks, you know, like, I love Jordan's Tik toks. Like those are the great. But it's whatever's getting that positive word out there. That's what we need more of. You know, we need more positivity out there. And I wish that they would just stop, pause and like talk to us as consumers, you know, Reddit, Discord, you're going to, you know, they're going to read what they're going to want to read. And you know, it's just like Googling kratom. What is the first thing that pops up? Nothing but bad information. And that's what's going to pop up anywhere. You know, it's like all the bad's going to pop up before you find all the good. And that's even, you know, even with medication that these doctors are giving you, you're going to find a lot of bad side effects to it until you say, OK, this has its benefits. You know, just like they want to, you know, put kratom and seven O in the hands of big Pharma. Why?

56:03 Because it has benefits, but it's taking away from them and they want to control it. And there's no way that they're going to control my meds again because they were killing me. And now I'm alive and I'm going to continue living my life this way. Whether kratom is banned or not, I will always have kratom in my life. I don't care what I've got to do, but kratom is what saved my life and that's what's going to continue to keep my life going. I, I love that you're such a, a passionate advocate for kratom and 708 because it helps you so much. I definitely, I feel like we could talk all day. I, I think I want to get you back on again sometime. We can just go down the road of the whole advocacy because advocacy works. And I, I think a lot of people in our community don't really understand how they can advocate and how easy it is to do and. It's like it's scary too, and a lot of people are scared. I was terrified.

56:54 I still like, I was nervous to do this. I'm terrified every time I speak on a Zoom or I go live, you know, in, in a hearing. I'm nervous every time, but there are voices is what's being heard and that's what we need. We need more people out there. I mean, I tell people all the time if you need help, let me know. Like I'll help you write something up. You know, like if you, if you want to speak, I can help write something up and you can just read it off if that's what you're comfortable. Whatever, whatever helps you advocate for you and yourself, I'm here to support it. That's awesome. It's so important to advocate. I've been to DC twice now for congressional briefings that the American Crime Association facilitated, and I'm like, hey, if I can raise money and get myself out there, it's worth my time to go be there to help. I wasn't paid by the AKA or anybody to go do it. I'm just like you, a very passionate advocate. And it is scary, scary doing all of this stuff, but going on Capitol Hill and talking to people and sharing your personal experience, it is so eye open.

58:01 It's amazing to sit in the room with people and to just watch how they're taking in hearing your personal story. And they're most interested in us as the consumer just talking about like, Hey, I don't have to take all these opiates anymore. I, I use this powder. I even would pull it out and show them like a, a package of my whole leaf powder. And just like, like the I make a tea out of this is is better than popping all these pills that give me all these side effects and doesn't even really help my pain all that much. And they would be like, wow, this is really interesting. And you know, if we're not speaking out, we're not informing. And that's. They want us quiet because if we're not speaking, if we're not speaking out, that means, you know, like, like this Nashua, NH ban. If none of us spoke out, that would have been an immediate ban and none of us would have even known. And there's still people, they have no idea that all these bands are going on, you know, like follow the American Kratom Association.

58:58 You don't have to agree with everything they do and say. I don't. But I follow them because they have been helpful to our plant. You know, they get us in the door to see the legislation that we need to see. You know, you know, even with seven O, you know, follow heart, follow 7 hope alliance. They have a lot of great information, you know, and if you ever have questions, they're always willing to help and talk and answer anything that you have. You know, like that's that's what I love about this community. If you have questions and you need to ask a question and they're willing to help you out. That's that's what brings my heart into this community and keeps coming back, because if it's one person besides myself that I'm helping or saving or you know, many people, I've, I've helped many people not only taper off off drugs, 7 O and Kratom.

59:48 You know, we, we need more people like you, like myself. We need more out there because our voice is what's mattering. Our voice is getting us heard. And that's, that's what we need more of. And it's I, I wish that we had more time. When it came to these hearings that we would have a little bit more notice because I mean, let's get it. They're they're smack dab in the middle of the day when most people are working and not a lot can show up. And that's kind of in a sense probably their MO. But you know, we come in strong. We come in strong. I mean, you've seen us myself, Jen, you see us on all these zoom calls. It doesn't matter. Louisiana, California, Connecticut, Rhode Island, we are everywhere.

1:00:30 Like, you know, and you know, Texas, like all these states I go to, if California bans kratom, I'm not going home. And that's my home state. Like I won't be able to go home. Texas, you know, I was terrified. That's where my brother and my stepmom are and my my nephew. If it was banned there, I wouldn't be going home to Texas. You know, I don't want to be a felon for some powder like a felon, a schedule 1 felon drug addict, like for a leaf powder that's not doing any harm. It's doing good. This isn't heroin. This isn't morphine like you and I would not be sitting here having a full hour conversation on heroin or morphine. We'd, you know, we'd be nodding out and not coherent and not making sense.

1:01:10 We have all of our faculties about us. You know, I've, I've taken kratom today and that's it. You know, like I'm very sound mind, I'm very alert. I'm not inebriated. I'm not completely checked out. Like if I was on the amount of pain medication that I was on, I'd probably look like I was doped up. And that's what I looked up on it like I looked like on a regular day. It was like I constantly looked like I was on some sort of a medication and I didn't like it. I didn't like the way it feels. I didn't like the way it made me feel, made me look. You know, it just this is such a great alternative. It really is. And I, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna keep fighting. I'll fight until I have no fight left in me.

1:01:50 You know, I will fight till my last breath if it means for me, for you, for others to have kratom. That's what I'm gonna continue to do. I love that. Yeah, I'll definitely get you back to just have like a whole episode on advocacy. Absolutely. So much we can talk about that. Well, to wrap up, I mean, this has been an amazing conversation, Amanda. I've been really loving this, knowing everything you know now about kratom. You've been in this for a long time. You know, lots. What advice would you give to someone to help them? They're just getting started. Well, one less is more. A lot of people come into this thinking, you know, you know, oh, I have a high tolerance. This is a whole different aspect. You know, I thought the same thing. Oh, I've been taking a lot of pills.

1:02:31 I've been taking them like this. You know, my tolerance is going to be this. No, like start low, get a few different, you know, Reds, greens, whites, because they're, they're all different blends. It's a little bit different. What works for me may not work for you. You know, write things down, journal it, see what works for you. And you know, make sure that you know, you're reaching out for advocacy help. You know, you're reaching out. You're, you know, if you don't understand how to read labs, there's plenty in the community that do. I still don't get all the labs, all that mumbo jumbo. There's lots of numbers, lots of math things. And I'm like, wait, hold on, like dumb this down. You understand? It. So it's like, you know, it's just do, do, do your due diligence, start low, less is more, write things down, hold yourself accountable.

1:03:15 And if you're struggling, like if you're having an issue with it, if you think you're abusing it, reach out. Because there's so many of us as a support system that are here to listen, that are here to help. You know, we can, we can help. And that's what we're here for. You know, I mean, we're not doctors. We don't have, you know, the medical behind us. We just have our own experience, you know, and a lot of times, you know, even with doctors, it goes off of experience, you know, like what has been this person's experience with this medication? And that's where they get it, just like, you know, what's been this person's experience with kratom? So I mean, start, start low, you know, start small and less is more, you know, hold yourself accountable and don't abuse it because it's a wonderful, it's a wonderful tool. It really is.

1:03:59 Yeah, great advice. Thank you, Amanda, for spending time with us. This has been so great. I know so much more about you now and I know the listeners really enjoyed this, so thank you for doing. This one, absolutely. Absolutely. I look forward to the next one.