Ep 62: Breaking Free from Pain: Hailey Reville and the Power of Kratom

0:00 There was a week where I wasn't able to get my pain medication, I think it was roughly like 5 days, and I had no other option but to 100% lean on kratom. So this time I shook it up in the bottle and I tried to measure it out more carefully and I would say that's when I found what really worked. And it was almost like the heaven gates opened up and started singing. Welcome to Kratom Stories, a weekly podcast where we share stories of how this amazing plant has changed our lives. I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.

0:43 Each week I'll bring you a new episode featuring interviews with experts, advocates, and everyday people who've experienced the benefits of kratom first hand. Join me as we dive deeper into the world of this botanical wonder and discover the amazing stories behind this incredible plant. The Kratom Stories Podcast is presented solely for educational purposes. Neither the podcast nor its host promote or endorse the use of kratom, a substance not yet regulated or approved by the FDA. The views and opinions expressed by guests are theirs alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or the podcast. The content is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding the use of kratom.

1:32 Before we dive into today's episode, I want to let you know about Kratom Real Talk. It's a new community for positive, uplifting discussions about the power of whole leaf kratom. If you'd like to be part of the conversation and learn more about this plate or contribute your knowledge, go to kratomrealtalk.com. So I'm here with Haley, somebody I just met on TikTok. Like literally last week, a video popped up of her making her swamp water kratom and drinking it on TikTok before we thought we would lose TikTok forever. Thank God for hidden, although it could still go away, hopefully it won't. So Haley, thank you so much for joining the podcast. I cannot wait to hear your story. But hey anybody that makes a video of their swamp water kratom and drinking it on TikTok I got to talk to so. Yeah, I'm super happy here.

2:28 Thank you for inviting me. And I'm super eager to kind of share everything, so I appreciate it. Awesome. Well, let's start with you talking a little bit us, a little bit about yourself and life before Kratom. OK, sure. So I am younger in the pain community, I would say was diagnosed about 20, age 27 with multiple chronic illnesses, illnesses such as like autoimmune. And I have about three of those ongoing. And with those, you know, there's elements and and chronic conditions that those cause. And so as a young mom, I have a biological son of my own. He's now 7, almost 8:00. And then I have two step kids that are 11 and 6.

3:10 And I'm very fortunate for them to all be kind of, you know, similar in in age. But, yeah, you know, as all of those things were kind of coming together, my life was crashing on one side and then on the other side coming together. And I worked really hard. I was actually in the medical field, started at about age 15, was fortunate to kind of get in early. And I worked really, really hard. I did go to school for an associate's degree and then just kind of climbed the ladder from there. And I found my dream job in plastic surgery, loved it, and I was super happy to be there. But then my health kind of came crashing down and it just seems like Western medicine was kind of failing me.

3:52 So that's when I really had to kind of take matters into my own hands, and that's kind of what started me on and LED me on the path I'm currently on. Awesome. So were you coming from pain management? Were you like being treated for pain or like what would happen before kratom? So I actually had a fantastic independent practitioner who doesn't actually accept insurance and more faith-based loved him and he was one of the only doctors that initially listened to me. It's kind of weird, but for me, my health actually started with my bladder. So I just felt like I was always having issues with going to the restroom and not being able to really have a life that didn't manage around always having the urge to urinate. And so I went to doctor and doctor and doctor, and they just kept telling me the same thing.

4:45 Oh, you're too young, your things are normal, your labs are normal. We can't find anything. So I finally found this physician and he sat down, listened to me and told me that I actually had a bladder neurological condition, which is intersystal cystitis that I would have to be living with for the rest of my life. And I was already at the point where I mean, it was driving me almost suicidally crazy. Now I use that in the term that I'll obviously I didn't want to do that kind of harm to myself, but it was just, I was so bearable with how it was causing me to feel. So he did prescribe me tramadol, which is a very minimal, you know, pain medication.

5:27 And then it just kind of seemed like all these other health conditions started. Then I was diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. I do have fibromyalgia, chronic Epstein Barr. And as you can imagine, it was just chronically attacking systemically everywhere. And I was taking tramadol for approximately a year before it just seems like it wasn't managing hardly anything at the anymore. So then I was referred by a rheumatologist to a pain management physician. And when you go into the specialty appointments and anytime you mention tramadol or a pain medication, they all just kind of freeze almost as if you're doing something wrong.

6:13 And so it was almost like, oh, I don't really want to do anything with that. Let me just send you somewhere else to help your pain. And so when I did visit pain management provider, he said, yeah, I think this is something absolutely that we need to try to control because what matters is quality of life. And so we did, that's what we did. And I did that for about 3 years and then it just, it no longer helped. So that's kind of where I had to make a decision what was going to be most important. Yeah, it sounded like those other doctors just thought you were drug seeking, right? Just yeah from how they're acting. And it's weird because I never mentioned that, but you know, when you're filling out your health intake form and they ask you all these medications you're taking, they never, you know, with antidepressants or with any other medication that you have to take long term, they never gasp.

7:06 It's never really a question per SE, but when you, I mean tramadol is so minimal compared to the spectrum of pain medications. And so anytime they would see that it's almost they would just be like, well, why are you on that? And they would question as if there was no need for it. And I'm like, listen buddy, I could sit here and talk about an hour for the reasoning as to why that is what I am taking. But luckily, I did have that Doctor Who took the time to listen because a lot of, you know, providers not to not to negatively put them in the light, but they just don't have time to sit there and go over everything with you and your appointment.

7:47 So they're just looking at, you know, the key factors. And anytime it was tramadol, it was just like, oh, well, you know, I'm not going to be able to treat that aspect of your pain, right? And I said, yeah, that's not what I'm here. I want to treat the underlying root of that. So yeah, it is unfortunate, but they almost treat, they almost like group anyone who's taking those form of medications together and they group you into this like almost drug seeking clientele. And that's absolutely not true for a lot of us, actually so. Right, right. And it's not like we asked to be in pain or have these these medical issues, but many times these medications can help. And yeah, man, I'm so sorry you've had to go through that. So you did three years of pain management and then you said the meds just really weren't working anymore? Right, so I had a conversation with my specialist and the original physician who I still love and is near and dear to me. But yeah, so I had a conversation with them and I said, look, you know, I just feel like I'm just having so much pain to say that these meds are working. And if I, it just feels counterintuitive that I'm taking something to help with my pain, but my pain isn't being managed. And I told them, honestly, I don't really want to continue taking a higher and higher dose of something because I was already very familiar with.

9:13 You get to the end of the road before you can't take anything anymore. That's it. And as a young person, I did not want to, in 10 years or 15 years, be at the end of the rope where it was like, well, that's all there is on the planet, you know, for you to try. So yeah, I just had a conversation with them and they said, well, you know, why don't you just kind of mark in a diary when you're having pain? And, you know, we had a lengthy discussion about that. And so it really wasn't a plan of action, right? Of hey, let's see where we can go from here. My pain management physician was just, you know, talking about surgery and, you know, a morphine pump and things like that.

9:56 And I was like, listen, that seems a little far fetched. And then my primary physician was, you know, his hands are tied with all of the DEA restrictions and, and all of those things. And so I, I respected that. So honestly, I was just like, you know, I, I'm going to quit taking the medication. I'm just going to stop taking it. And when I did that, that's when I really felt the whole withdrawal, you know, things that you always hear pain patients talk about. And man, was that torture. That was absolute torture. And I had really no choice as an active mom. It's not like I could be in bed going through the withdrawals. It's not like I could, you know, just check out and say, see you later guys, I'm leaving and you know, and deal with it that way.

10:42 So I just said, you know, if, if at least I take the medication, I, I can function even though I don't feel as great, I might as well just stay on the medication. And I did that for about another six months. And it just felt like I was on this constant merry go round of getting my pain medication, taking my pain medication, still being in pain all the time and then coming toward the end of the month. And it's just like God, you are. You may be faced with a few days before you get your refill or if the doctor isn't in to give you a refill or now we're facing pharmacies that don't have the in stock amount to fill prescriptions. And so there was a couple of times where I was going to be out of medication for I would say 3 days or five days. And I just said, you know, this, I just can't live like this anymore.

11:34 So yeah, that's kind of how that transpired. And it was looking back, it's just kind of like, wow. And I will say, I think we need to do better as a society to, you know, it's for pain patients, very sad because for people like us who have taken pain medication, if we want to stop, a lot of physicians don't have the time or the compassion to help us get off of those medications. They just don't want to deal with it. And so as a person, it seems like you look, the only options you have are a rehab center or to do it yourself. And I think that is just where we go very wrong because we're left to self treat. We're left to figure it out on our own. And I'm not an addict that needs to be in a detox center. I just don't want to take this medication that's no longer working for me.

12:27 And I don't have help to get off of that. So yeah, I would say for sure. That's like a scary thing to go through. You know, that's what happened to me. I was in pain management for nine years, and doctors are scared to prescribe now. So one day I get a form letter in the mail saying we're no longer prescribing. Here's a list of other doctors. And no other doctor would take over because I was being prescribed, you know, high doses. And apparently, my body processes them quickly, and it's what I need for my debilitating pain in my neck and back. And the doctor did not even offer to taper me down, which is what they're supposed to do, right? And I thought, oh, no big deal, I'll find another doctor. I live in a big city. No big deal. Could not find one doctor to take over.

13:07 They're all so scared now. And this was five years ago. This was a while back. So somebody said, look, go back to your primary, your pain management doctor and demand they at least put you on the taper. Like that's their job. They can't just leave you high and dry, especially after nine years. So I did that and I felt like I was begging. And it's like just like with you, it's like, do I have to like as a non addict, go to a rehab center where you know, I'm not, I'm physically dependent, anybody would be. But I have no emotional attachment to these pills. I just need it for pain relief. That's all. I need something else, but I don't know what else at the time before kratom and it was a very scary time to go through that. And you're so right, these doctors ain't it.

13:48 They just don't care. There's no compassion. They just don't want to be bothered. I really felt like I was bothering them. Yes, absolutely. Me too. Just so wrong and sad that no other doctors had the compassion to take over and try to help me and thank God that I found kratom is like Oh my gosh amazing. So is this when you discovered kratom or was there? Still something else going on before that No actually I discovered kratom really through you guys on TikTok. So I follow like Claudia Morandi and the whole pain community. And I heard, you know, video started popping up of kratom. Now I have, you know, I live in Dallas, TX. So you drive through and you see storefronts and they have all of these neon signs with like CBD, kratom and all of these things.

14:34 So I had, I had seen it many times, but never knew anyone that had personally had a personal experience or, or anything like that. So yeah, video started popping up and I started hearing Misty and actually you talk about it and I was like, wow, this is so up my alley. Like, this is exactly what I feel like I need. And I've started doing a lot of diving into what it is and how it works in her videos, your videos. Then more and more kept popping up. And so I was very intrigued. But then of course, you know, go to Google and it was just like, wow, it was night and day. They made it seem so scary and just like it was so evil and I was just like, that is crazy because it's like all I hear and see is nothing but good things. But yeah, then I Google is making it seem like it's worse than opioids itself and it's just like, that's wild. So because I was just so I was just so desperate for getting out of the situation and treating my pain so I could have the will to live.

15:42 I mean, Madeline, I got to a point where I didn't want to die, but I just did not want to live where and how I was. It just was almost like, Jesus, I feel very guilty for saying this, but like, I don't want to wake up in the morning. And nobody should feel like that. Nobody should have to face that. And so, yeah, it was hard because I would look at at my kids and I was just like, how how could I feel like that? And I felt very guilty for feeling that way. So I just got so fed up with the whole process of everything and, and hurting. And I said I have really nothing much to lose at this point. So my husband was actually just about to get off work. He knew that I had been dealing with all of these things and he felt helpless that he couldn't do more.

16:28 So I called him and I said, hey, on your way to work, I really need you to pick me up some powdered kratom. And I sent him just some very basic information. I knew. And he said, OK, say less. And so he picked it up and he got home. And when I seen the little packet of powdered kratom, my heart dropped. But it was also like, oh, this could really be it. Like this could be my New Hope. And so, yeah, I didn't really know, like, how I should take it. And I think a lot of kratom users, you hear over and over again, you don't really know where to start. And that's OK because that is how you find what you want, what you like.

17:10 And I just kind of, I think I went back to one of Misty's videos and I tried stirring it I think the first time and that did not work very well, by the way. So I was just like, you know what? Oh well, and I just like drank it now. The first time it did not work as I hoped and I felt a little disappointed, but I was just so adamant to get off of the ups and downs of trying to go through pharmaceuticals to manage my pain that I for a little bit I contemplated which do I keep trying? But also, I don't know if I'm sure you've had the experience where it's just kind of like during the day, this wave of achiness and unbearable pain just kind of start to take over your movements.

17:58 And I just felt that coming on. But I had just dosed my kratom and I was just like, well, do I try again or do I take my pain medication? I was apprehensive and I just ended up trying to, I guess, use kratom more as a crutch, I would say at that point, because I just wasn't too sure about how to do it, if I was doing it right. And my fear was taking too much. And, you know, I didn't know what the effect would be if I took too much. And so I just played it safe, went to my pain medication. And then, yeah, it was going to be, I would say maybe a month later, there was a week where I wasn't able to get my pain medication. I think it was roughly like five days and I had no other option but to 100% lean on kratom.

18:47 So this time I shook it up in the bottle and I tried to measure it out more carefully. And I would say I that's when I found what really worked. And it was almost like the heaven gates opened up and started singing and it was just this weight kind of lift it off of you for sure. That is awesome. Yeah. You know, it can take trial and error. That's the thing that gets a little frustrating with kratom. It affects everybody differently. So not only is it figuring out which kind of kratom, first of all, you want a good brand that's, you know, that lab tests their kratom so you know what you're getting and that it is what it is, what it says it is on the packaging.

19:29 And that is not mediocre. There's actually good quality kratom. And then you got to figure out which color works best for you. You know, the red, the green in the white, and then what is the right dose? There's so many variables with it. It definitely took me a quite a bit of trial and error to figure it out in the beginning as well. But wow, what a situation you were in where you felt like, OK, I got to just make this work because I don't have access to the meds and you figured it out. I love that. That is awesome. Yeah, and you know, I'm happy it worked that way. In the moment, I was not so happy. But looking back on it, I am so glad that God gave me that push to like, no. And he, it was just almost like meant to be. And I would not have changed it any other way. I'm glad that it happened that way. So if anyone is listening and they're very hesitant or maybe you're going to have a very similar situation, you can 110% lean on kratom and.

20:28 Don't be scared to do it because from myself, from Madeline, and thousands of other people who have had very similar experiences, the end result is almost this. Always the same. And that is that kratom does work and has taken and replaced the pharmaceuticals that we once took. Yeah. So when you took it that time and it actually worked, what was it that you felt? What did you like? Just have this feeling of like wow my pain subsided like how did it feel? Yeah, it was. It just was almost like when, Yeah, almost kind of like when you take the pain medication and you don't have the pain.

21:10 But it does not. I mean, if you're looking or if you're a person who's looking for some euphoric effect and like you just start feeling this rush of glorious energy and things like that, that you might be disappointed. Because for me, it's never been that way. For me, kratom has always just taken off the cement blocks of what pain did to me and my body. It was just like, you know, almost like your feet are stuck in the mud and you're just trying to move, but your feet are just so weighted down. Kratom is almost like the rain kind of washes out the mud and then you're able to move your feet and get back on the tracks again and go where you were going.

21:58 That's kind of what kratom felt like for me. It wasn't, you know, you hear some of these things that are so crazy and far fetched, by the way, like, let's be honest, there's no this crazy euphoria and this feeling that, you know, you just get this high or such from and it's just so wild that people even begin to go there. It's never been like that for me. So yeah, it's I even think, I mean, I may be the only one that feels this way, but I think that kratom would even be safer than like THC or can avoids in that department. Because I know for me, I've had instances where I tried to dabble into more of the THC or I forgot some of the other names that they have now.

22:44 But and you kind of get panicky because you start to feel like that head change and that's so not for me. I don't like that. I don't like that feeling. I don't like the control that is not mine or my own. So yeah, Kratom is so easy when it comes to that because it's of what you no longer feel, the pain, the anxiety, the discomfort, the depression, things like that versus what you are expecting to feel. That's perfectly sad. It's so true. Like with Kratom, I'm just like, like I'll just be like doing something go wow, my pain went away. Like I like it to me is so subtle. It's not like with the pain pill I was like, bam, all of a sudden now you feel some pain relief and it wasn't always great. Like I would get some relief with pain meds, but not like drastic.

23:34 But with kratom it's like, wait a minute, my back was killing me 10 minutes ago. I took my little swamp water kratom and like, wow, I feel so much better. But it was, it just like happened, like I could be doing something for half an hour and be like, wow, I, I really feel back to normal. Like I'm not hurting and I feel great, but I don't feel high. I don't feel, I'm not feeling like there's not something there telling me. Oh, by the way, your medication just kicked in. Yes. I love that about this plant. It's so. Different. Me too. Me too. And it's reliable. And with other forms of, I would say like plant medicine or therapeutic relief, you know, you have to kind of plan that carefully because you could be needing to go out, you could be needing to go to work.

24:19 And you know, you would have to be very cautious of how you ingest those things. With kratom, it's safe to use whenever and however you're going to be doing or doing things throughout your day. I know as a mom of three, I need to be there for my kids at all time of day. They should and can call me at any time and say, hey, mom, I need you and I will be there. And that is something that I love about kratom as well as because I know that I can take kratom and I can be dependable and I don't have to worry about, Oh no, like I just took kratom. I can't drive, which is yeah, so not the case. You can take kratom and, you know, go run your errands as usual.

25:03 So yeah, I love that it doesn't hinder you or anything like that from doing things that you, you know, need to do. Yeah. So is kratom like totally worked with all your pain issues you've had? Has it been really helpful with that? Yeah, absolutely. Now it doesn't 100% take care of my pain and I have just come to the realization that that's just probably going to be my new normal. But I am accepting of that and I'm OK with that because I know that at least I have kratom and you know, it makes me functional. And right now that's the best and has been the best option for me for the last two years. Last year, I actually had a kidney infection and my doctor just said, hey, since it's the weekend, I'm going to go ahead and send you in some Tramadol to the pharmacy.

25:51 That way if you need it, it's there. If you don't need it, hey, Oh well, don't take it. And so I remember picking it up and I had taken one of the Tramadol just to see if it would take care of the pain in my back because I was in bed. I had to be in bed with the kidney infection. It was just so, so painful. But it didn't do anything. I mean, I would have rather taken my kratom. So now it's just like, even if the option is there for pain medication, you just don't even care to have it because you have an option that works and that is reliable. So yeah, it's kind of crazy because you would have asked me that five years ago. I would have been like, oh, you're crazy. Like that's that is not going to happen.

26:32 No way. But now it's true. And I'm glad that I was able to find kratom for sure. Yeah, it's amazing how many people I've talked to that said the same thing, like had an opportunity to get a script for, you know, some issue they've had and the doctor writes it and it's usually one of two things. They just don't end up filling it because they just feel like their kratom helps or whatever issue they're having, or they fill it and try one or two and go. It's just not the same. It's not working, you know, I'm not getting the result. And it's interesting too, that some people get drastically better pain relief with kratom and some people get about the same, maybe a little bit better than their pain meds.

27:13 I think I might be a bit of an exception. Like my pain level goes literally to a zero with my back and neck with kratom, whereas when I was in pain management even with all the strong opiates my pain level will still be A6 or A7 on a good day, never below A6. Which is always frustrating but at least I've got some relief taking taking the meds. But with kratom, I have degenerative disc disease in my neck and back and it's very severe and without some kind of intervention, I can't function. I can't do anything. But with crate, I'm like, I can sit at my desk for hours, I can do things and I just don't feel so hindered. And I, I know not very many people say they get such a super low pain level at a zero or a one or two. Some people say a 345.

27:58 You know, I, I've, I've heard it all. I feel bad. I wish more people could get experience what I experience. I get other pains, no doubt. You know, at my age, I get all kinds of other aches and pains. Kratom doesn't always help, but it helps my main pain. Like if I didn't have something to help my main pain, I'd be miserable all the time. So I can live with the other aches and pains because they come and go and they're not as big of a deal. But I wish more people could experience what I experienced because it is so amazing. But overall people get great results with and typically way better than the pain medicine. It sounds like it works way better for you than the Tramadol ever did. Yeah, and I have been on kratom, I mean, right close to two years. And you know, with pain medication, you get to a point because our bodies build up tolerance to the medication. Now it could be pain medication and it could be other forms of medication.

28:57 So it's not just opioids, but your body builds up a defense mechanism and and such. So you get to a place where it just doesn't work as well. And my doctor talked to me and he was like, you know, usually when that happens, we switch you to something else. Then we kind of go back and forth and that. And I haven't had that with kratom. I haven't experienced that to where you just wake up one morning, you take your kratom and it's like, wow, it didn't do anything. Like I've never had that experience. It's always done what it's expected to do. So yeah, I love that about kratom and also just the other aspects that come with it. I will say like as someone who has multiple symptoms daily, everything from aches and pains to just mobility, range of motion, lack of sleep, being able to get comfortable. I have horrible like nerve pain, restless legs. I mean you name it, I probably have had it. And kratom has helped with the spectrum of a lot of those things.

29:58 I know you and I have heard a lot of people talk about the ADHD aspect of kratom and how it helps them and their focus and clarity and a lot of people with depression and anxiety and getting off of alcohol. So it's just so wonderful that there is a plant medicine that is able to treat a lot of those things. So you could be like me and have plethora of different things that you have to endure every day. And yeah, kratom will work just as well for you as treating those things as it does for someone who has degenerative disc disease. So yeah, I love that about kratom.

30:39 It's not just a plant that is only for this type of person, you know? So yeah, I, I respect that. And I feel good about recommending that to other people because of that. I would not feel as comfortable, you know, recommending tramadol or pain medication to somebody because there's a variety of different things that could cause contraindications or adverse effects for medication. But with kratom, it's so much easier to talk about and recommend to someone who may be in a in a similar situation. So. So yeah. Yeah, Misty Brown and I, we always refer to kratom as a pharmacy in a plant because it does so like what you were just talking about. It does so many things and help so many people. I'm always amazed when I'm interviewing people for this podcast and they'll say, yeah, I use kratom for my chronic pain or I use it for my recovery from addiction. But also I realized I don't need my anxiety medication anymore or my ADD medicine anymore.

31:38 It's like, wow, that's just so amazing how many medications people get off of with this one plant. It's mind blowing. Yeah, it is. And then when you see people such as you and I who have had these great experiences and, you know, on TikTok, you see so many comments. This plant saved my life. And this plant's amazing. I mean, hundreds of comments of how well this plant has worked for so many people. It's so wild that you hop on the Internet and the Internet tells you something completely different. And so if that is not proof that that is controlled of to you know, what you're able and the information you're able to get, then I don't know what proof else you need because this plan is truly causing so much benefit to so many people.

32:29 And yeah, Google will tell you something completely different. So I would say if you're doing research, don't just go with what you're reading on the Internet. There are so many personal stories and so many people too, who know so much information about the plant and can answer questions. And I know from experience that if you guys have a question and you don't know the answer to it, you will find the answer versus just kind of reaching out on a limb and saying, yeah, that, you know, I think this is kind of what it would be or what have you. So yeah, look to people who are experienced and experts and not just some article who is written by a pharmaceutical company.

33:13 Or a rehab center boy anti kratom. Yeah, I like to go by people's first hand experience, not just some Google search with hearsay information. There is so much misinformation and disinformation about kratom on the Internet. There's so much propaganda. It's really sad that people fall into that. They don't even realize that they're just getting inaccurate information. But that's why I do the podcast. You know, this podcast, we, we have 58 episodes. I have 58 episodes people can listen to. And there's more coming. You know, I mean, I've been doing this podcast for over a year. They're individual stories of how this plant has helped people. And it's just so amazing that there are literally millions of us in the US that consume kratom for whatever reason, for a variety of things.

33:59 And it's just helping so many people. I just love that and I'm so glad you found it. Yeah, and you know, one thing about kratom that I haven't really had or heard a lot of people mention is the you just almost feel better. Not what it takes away pain wise. I mean, obviously, but when you're taking multiple pain, you know, pills a day, when you go to a natural option, there's just something that feels better internally in your body. It just is almost like you just in that one aspect alone, you feel better. I know for me it was just almost like just I felt a little bit lighter. I don't know.

34:41 It wasn't necessarily coming from the kratom effect itself. I think it was replacing something actually OK and healthy for your body versus something that's, you know, chemically made. Right, right. Because pharmaceuticals are chemicals, you know, we're ingesting chemicals and not thinking twice. Whereas instead a plant to me is a much better, healthier alternative. Yeah, absolutely. Now, are you still getting your kratom today from a smoke shop or do you buy your kratom online from like a vendor or how are you doing that now? You said you started with a smoke shop, so how do you do that today? I still trust and love my smoke shop. I think her name is Sadeed or something similar.

35:23 She is actually from goodness. I just left me sorry, but she's she's from a country that is very familiar and fluent with kratom and I've always had very good luck with all of the products she has. You know, recently I've kind of really wondered and, and wanted to try more online vendors. I know I've heard some really good things from a lot of the vendors that you guys use. So I'm certainly happy and going to try vendors. But I think for me personally, the shop that I get it from is more of not just like a smoke shop and kind of it's more of a shop or a storefront that offers kratom. So you know where you're shopping. I would be careful, know the vendors know and like you said, make sure that you are getting something that is getting lab tested and is good product because that absolutely can and will make a difference not only in how it helps you, but just how it digests and how it metabolizes. Because I had some people kind of tell me that oh, I don't feel so good after kratom or it causes a lot of like tummy upset And well, that is true.

36:39 You also need to kind of revert back and look at where and how you're ingesting it and where they are getting that from. So. Absolutely. I always tell people, do lots of research, you know, and that's great that you have a really great smoke shop and you're getting really good quality kratom. And it's great that you've been doing this for two years without any tolerance issues. Earlier you're talking about, you know, tolerance issues with pain meds. I went through that. I mean, nine years of pain management, I definitely went through that. There was a lot of up and downs where we, you know, do a particular pain medication. It works great for a period of time. Then over time, it's not as effective. I got to take more and more and more. So then the doctor stops that one. We switch to another one hoping it works. And I always felt like it was this revolving door of like which one's going to work now and always having to rotate with Kratom.

37:31 People were telling me when I was first starting and I was doing my research, they were saying it's a good idea to rotate vendors so that you don't build up any kind of tolerance. I'm like, huh, that's interesting. So I just started doing that from the beginning where I just bought from multiple vendors and I just always rotated. And I still, here I am 5 1/2 years later, I still do that where it might be like vendor AI take in the morning, vendor BI take in the afternoon, vendor CI take in the evening. And I just do something like that every day. I've never had a tolerance issue, but it doesn't necessarily mean anything because I know people that have used the same kratom for years with no tolerance issues. And some people who rotate, they have no tolerance issues.

38:13 And then you have people that no matter what they do, they have tolerance issues. So, you know, this plant is so individualized, it affects everything differently. But I think that's great that you've been taking the same one for two years and you haven't developed any kind of tolerance issues. So that's awesome. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I think, you know, the only thing I will, I don't know, kind of rotate through and it's not a tolerance reason. It's more of convenience and what my life looks like and my ups and downs with my body and other medication that I have to take is, you know, sometimes I'll do more powder and then sometimes for that day we're running out errands and I have the capsules on me. So it kind, I have just, let me put it this way, there's not really a Kratom that I haven't tried. And of course I found what works best for me, what I like. And sometimes I'll maybe I'll take a little bit more white than green or sometimes maybe I'll do powder versus not. But yeah, so it kind of just depends on what life looks like right now.

39:14 But yeah, it, it's more of just that aspect, not oh, I've built up a tolerance. I need to switch so. Yeah, right, right. And are how much? How often are you dosing kratom? Oh gosh, you know, or. You're just kind of doing it as needed throughout the day. Yeah. So I think I've heard another episode where you talk, you metabolize things very quickly. I am so much the same way. And I think when I was talking to physicians about medications and such, they're like, oh, that's not, there's no way that that's happening. And I'm like, it is, but I also, I go to the bathroom like 20 to 25 times a day. Like it's just in and comes right out. So yeah, I would say probably about four times a day. There are days maybe on like a 5th to 6th time. Some days it's only three, but it kind of just depends on average about four to five times a day and it could be every two to four hours.

40:16 I would say the longest I go is usually 6. Six, about six hours so. Yeah, so many people I talked to say they just, you know, they'll start with a dose in the morning and then depending on how their day goes and the pain they're having, if they need a dose again sooner or take more. For me, it's just always, I don't know, I just my 5 grams ish, basically 2 teaspoons every six hours. That's what works for me. But in the beginning when I was transitioning from the meds to this, I remember I was having to take it more often in the beginning because I was also trying to not go through withdrawals of nine years of opioids and have pain relief. And it seems very common to take, not necessarily a lot, but more often in the beginning and just listening to your body. But I think overall, it's listening to your body and no matter what, and I was able to just go over the course of several months, I could go longer and longer between doses and I would just get the pain relief for hours and hours. I got to the point where I could get to six hours without suffering.

41:17 It's like as long as I dose in, in six hours and I'm good for the next six hours. And that's what's worked for me. And I'm just so wowed by that. But a lot of people I talk to are like, no, for me, it's just I dose in the morning and then when I feel pain again, then I dose again. And that might be, it might be, you know, 3 or 4 hours, it might be 6 hours. It just keeps going back to its individualized and everybody's different. But it sounds like you're just very aware of your body and base it on your body, what you're doing, what things you got going on in your life and you've got a good handle on it. That's all that matters. Yeah, that's you're right. That's really all that matters and your quality of life, because at the end of the day, I mean, we're all just, we're just trying to survive and we're trying to be happy or, or closest to it in the meantime. So I think that's what matters.

42:03 Don't listen to what society has to say about it. Don't listen to, you know, any, any negativity. You need to try for yourself and what's going to be best for you. So yeah, I absolutely would agree with that. Yeah, Now I love that you're a kratom advocate like myself. I found you because you made a video of you consuming your kratom swamp water with a bottle. I totally grabbed my attention. I'm like, OK, I need to, I need to know her and I need to have her on the podcast. I love that about you, Haley. So tell us about like, obviously you advocate for this plan because you like, not everybody makes a video on TikTok like this is kratom and making it and then drinking it on cameras. Yeah.

42:48 So tell us, tell us about that video and and what made you do that. You know, looking back, I feel like it's kind of I, I didn't realize so many people don't make it that way. I really didn't. I have always heard the toss and wash theory, which I cannot for the life of me do. It's, I don't know if it's the dryness of the powder. I don't, I don't know if it's like I always have a dry mouth anyway, so I don't know. But I just cannot for the life of me do like a toss and wash. So when I do powdered kratom, I always have found it easiest just to put the powder into, you know, my bottle. I love those little small like juices usually like welches or like apple juice or something. They're just so much easier to work with. And you can also reuse them.

43:36 So yeah, it was in the morning and Tick Tock was going to be banned I think the next day or day after. And I was like, you know what? I have always wanted to share more about kratom on TikTok, but life gets away from you and I barely have enough energy to make it through the day. So today I'm going to for sure do this video. And it was just so like, I was still on my pajamas. I hadn't even brushed my hair. I was just like, you know, let's just do this. It's going to be now or never. So yeah, I just the kratom in the bottle. I shook it up how I always did. And usually I drink it straight away. A few comments said, hey, girl, like, chill, let us sit. Let us sit for a second and let the bubbles go away. And I was like, oh, wow.

44:22 I, I didn't really feel like I wanted to do that because then you're kind of having to remix it. But then when I tried it, yeah, it worked a little better that way in terms of not having bubbles. So yeah, shake up your kratom. Let it sit for just a minute. Don't be so, so impatient. And then all you do is you just chug it down as if, you know, you were chugging some water after you went for a run or, you know, we all had our crazy party days and you were chugging a drink. So yeah, just do that and then go be active. Like it's important. A lot of people, especially chronic pain people, it's very easy. We are limited anyhow, so a lot of us, we take our medication, we go sit back on the couch because we're waiting for the medication to work. So then we can go do something we got to do. But I have found and I know Misty has said go do something active.

45:17 It could be mildly active. It could be, you know, just something that you commonly do. Go take a quick walk around the block, but do go be somewhat active because whatever the science is, it does work. It makes the kratom work better. I feel. So then you don't even notice when it actually starts working other than you were just like, wow, I just feel better. And yeah, so you're not having to kind of wait around to feel something. I have, you know, there are times where I had taken my kratom and I just went to go lay back down or sit on the couch. And you won't necessarily feel anything because kratom doesn't give you this wave of feeling that, you know, you're all of a sudden like, oh, let me hurry up and go get up.

46:04 And now I feel, you know, like a new person. So yeah, I I would say for me, it was just a quick sling, like, oh, quick video. Bye TikTok. Love you. Thank you for everything. And yeah, the kratom community is amazing because I had so many awesome comments and then I of course got to connect with you, so I'm super happy for it. Yeah, that was so awesome. And it's so funny because we thought we were going to lose TikTok forever. And then it came back, came back less than 24 hours later. Yeah, let's just hope it last. Let's hope it still doesn't go away again. So I've been immersed in digital marketing and social media for a long time. I've been teaching social media for two decades. I feel so old now. I cannot get over how well TikTok works for the kratom community because on all the other social media platforms, we just don't connect with people about kratom like we do on TikTok. There's just something about TikTok people are there either fellow kratom consumers which come out of the woodwork when you make a video like yours, or people that are looking for alternatives for pain relief or other pharmaceuticals they take and discovering kratom through our advocacy efforts on there. So it's great that you've got such a positive response now that TikTok, because back it was gone just for like a brief moment.

47:15 Are you going to be doing more videos like that on there? Do you feel comfortable doing that? Oh, yeah, yeah, I, I really don't care what people say. I just want to help people. I don't know what it is. I've been like that since I was little. I just love helping people. And I feel like there just needs to be more and more truth about kratom and people who really say like, this is how it works for me. When I first started getting into kratom, other than the videos that you guys do, there's so much information and it can be overwhelming. You don't know which ones to buy, which ones to try. And then after I learned about kratom, it was like, oh, wait, there's different colors and, you know, how do I decipher between them and what, you know, works? And so it's a lot of information. So it could just be one video that catches somebody's attention and that could be a change for their life. My TikTok has usually my idea wanted to be more about chronic illness because that community is flourished on TikTok as well. So I've always just wanted to make videos in that aspect of like what helps.

48:24 I also feel because I was in the medical field that I have just a little bit more of a vast knowledge of certain things. And so I just wanted to help people there. But then when the kratom community was just so welcoming and so many people really wanted to stay connected, I was like, wow, that's so cool. So I might do some fun things here and there, but I'll leave the experts to do their creative thing on TikTok. We always love when other fellow cream consumers post on on their TikTok and share the magic of how that plant's helping them. I was just so, so excited to see that through your account. So this is first of all, this has been an amazing conversation.

49:06 I just love getting to know you better and hearing your journey, pain and and all the health issues you've had and how kratom has helped. So knowing everything you know now about kratom, what advice would you give to someone who is just starting in their journey getting going with kratom? I think you hear it time and time again. Don't give up. But I don't want to be cliche, so I'm going to say work with someone who knows a lot about it. So when I made that video, there was a few individuals who said, can I please keep in contact with you? Because when TikTok goes away and I'm on my kratom journey, I want someone almost to hold my hand. And I was so happy to be that person for someone. And so I said absolutely.

49:55 Here's my cell phone number. We can connect anywhere else on Facebook, wherever. So I would say grab someone who knows about it and can help answer your questions because there is a lot to know and you don't realize what questions you may have until you're in the moment measuring something out or maybe the time of day or, you know, questions pop up as you're going along in your day-to-day in your journey. So yeah, work with someone for them to kind of hold your hand. I, I would say in the beginning of the process. And that just makes things less anxious and easier for you to walk through. And also cheering you on to just not give up. Keep going because it will work.

50:41 You just have to be patient enough to go through that journey. All excellent advice. Thank you, Haley so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your score. This has been great. Thank you. I know. This is super fun so thank you for the opportunity and I am glad we got to connect and I wish you nothing but best in the future days and with your podcast because you deserve it for. Sure. Thank you. You're so kind. Thank you so much. Yes, thank you. Thank you for listening. You can get more information at kratomstoriespodcast.com, including show notes from this episode.