Ep 63: Chronic Pain, Plant Medicine: Nova Dean's Transformative Journey

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You're never going to want to,
like, think about a month down

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the road minus going to the
pharmacy and going to your

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doctor's appointments is your
whole life.

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It becomes your whole identity.
Chronic pain and kratom allowed

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me to be myself, you know?
Welcome to Kratom Stories, a

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weekly podcast where we share
stories of how this amazing

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plant has changed our lives.
I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar.

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Each week I'll bring you a new
episode featuring interviews

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with experts, advocates, and
everyday people who've

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experienced the benefits of
kratom first hand.

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Join me as we dive deeper into
the world of this botanical

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wonder and discover the amazing
stories behind this incredible

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plant.
The Kratom Stories Podcast is

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presented solely for educational
purposes.

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Neither the podcast nor its host
promote or endorse the use of

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kratom, a substance not yet
regulated or approved by the

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FDA.
The views and opinions expressed

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by guests are theirs alone and
do not necessarily reflect those

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of the host or the podcast.
The content is not intended as a

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substitute for professional
medical advice, diagnosis, or

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treatment.
Always seek the advice of your

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physician or other qualified
healthcare provider with any

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questions regarding the use of
kratom.

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Before we dive into today's
episode, I want to let you know

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about Kratom Real Talk.
It's a new community for

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positive, uplifting discussions
about the power of whole leaf

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kratom.
If you'd like to be part of the

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conversation and learn more
about this plate or contribute

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your knowledge, go to
kratomrealtalk.com.

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So I'm here with Nova, a lady I
met through one of our TikTok

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lives that we do by the way, if
you don't know, every Friday.

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At what time do we do that?
At 5:00 Eastern for about an

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hour.
Me and my fellow kratom gals, we

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get on TikTok, we hang out and
do a live Q&A and talk with

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other fellow kratom consumers is
so much fun.

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And I met my guest today from
that.

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This is Nova, who is a fellow
kratom consumer, and I cannot

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wait to hear more about your
story that you're about to share

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with us in the community, Nova.
So thank you so much for taking

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the time today to come on here
and do this.

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Absolutely.
Thank you, Madeline, for this

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forum and for all that you do
for kratom advocacy.

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Thank you.
Oh, I appreciate that.

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Thank you very much.
So tell us a little bit about

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yourself and life before kratom.
So I'm a chronic pain patient.

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I have complex PTSD, bipolar 1,
I have systemic lupus

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erythematosus, discoid lupus,
fibromyalgia, degenerative disk

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disease, rheumatoid arthritis.
I have a pretty bad eating

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disorder and migraines as well
as reflex sympathetic dystrophy.

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When you have an autoimmune
disease, you usually have more

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than one.
Like they like to cluster.

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So I started pain management
when I was 13 years old and so

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opioids at 13.
And you know, it's, that's been

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a journey in and of itself.
I'm also 15 years sober from

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alcohol and I'm very proud of
that.

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I'm a former librarian.
I retired and went on disability

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due to my lupus back in 2021.
I love the Pacific Northwest and

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I love the ocean and music and
yoga and metaphysical studies.

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Oracle reading, Bakey stone
medicine, collecting crystals.

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When you have a chronic disease,
let alone a bunch of them, you

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have to find things that make
you happy.

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And laughter, family time, those
things, that's all a part of my

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life.
That's a part of who I am.

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I live with my partner of six
years in Ohio, and we have a

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beautiful cat.
And yeah, to get into a little

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bit of where my kratom journey
started, I was losing who I was

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on pain management.
It had gotten to the point where

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they had me on compound
medications.

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They had me on transdermal
fentanyl patches like Oxy 80s.

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It just way beyond, you know,
because my tolerance was so high

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from using opioids, prescribed
opioids from the age of 13.

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And like that got harder to
navigate the older I got.

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And after I quit drinking in
2009, I really started to step

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back and take a look at my life
and see how much the opioids

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were were stealing my light.
And like to the point where I

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worked 15 minutes away and it
took me an hour and a half to

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drive there because I'd have to
pull off to the side of the road

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multiple times because the
medication was too intense.

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And so a friend from Oregon told
me about kratom in 2012.

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And I was really cautious, you
know, having had two years of

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opioid sobriety under my belt.
They explained to me it works on

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the same, some of the same
receptors.

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And they, they told me what
their experience was like, that

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it helped them with chronic
pain.

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And I researched heavily for
about two years, and when my

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pain had escalated with the
lupus, which was still

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undiagnosed, they had me down as
like mixed connective tissue

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disease and like other rare
diseases because they couldn't

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pin it down.
Lupus requires like blood work

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and something called Ana factor.
And most of the time they want

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that Ana to be positive, but it
isn't necessarily indicative of

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a lupus diagnosis because there
are so many factors.

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And so we hadn't gotten to that
point where we had started

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aggressive lupus treatment.
So my pain was escalating and I

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didn't know what to do.
And at this point, I had already

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terminated my relationship with
my pain management specialist.

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Looking back now in retrospect,
especially understanding more

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the opioid epidemic, I see that
that doctor was a pill mill and

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see it at the time.
But I see it now in my older

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age.
And I was really proud of myself

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when I walked out of that
appointment, even though I was

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in miserable pain and I was
getting ready to get an

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epidural.
I was just like, you're fired.

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It was empowering.
And that's kind of what kratom

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did was empower me again.
You know, I started consuming in

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the fall of 2014 for periodic
breakthrough pain.

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Again, very cautious with my
use.

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It was only when I was in
absolute misery before the

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diagnosis and I would be very
periodic about it, like maybe

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once a month if I couldn't get
off the floor or something like

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that.
And also it hadn't progressed to

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where it is now, like
systemically just 10 years ago.

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So yeah, my journey started with
kratom 10 years ago and when the

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pain management doctor wanted to
put me back on opioids, I

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terminated them and went with
kratom instead and I never

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looked back and it changed my
life.

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That had to have been just an
amazing feeling to fire your

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pain management doctor and use a
plant instead of all those

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opioids, especially when you're
at such a high dose.

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Absolutely.
It was a relief for me.

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It was a relief for me, my
family, and it was relatively

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unknown to my medical team as
well.

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So it was like a process of
discovery together through this

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kratom journey.
Like me, you know, sharing with,

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for example, my rheumatologist
and then her going and doing

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independent research about
kratom, looking at case studies

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and educating herself.
And I appreciated that, you

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know, my whole medical team, my
psychiatrist, my clinician, my

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rheumatologist, everyone down to
my urologist, everybody was on

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board with me transitioning away
from that.

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And I've had other ways of pain
management.

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I have a spinal cord stimulator.
I don't know if you're familiar

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with those.
You know, I've had that since

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2007.
I was really aggressive with my

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pain management, did a lot of
physical therapy, aquatic

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therapy, you know, biofeedback,
the whole thing.

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Like I went through the whole
circle of pain management.

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And this is where I landed with
plant medicine, and I'm so

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grateful that it's just a tea.
Right, it's all it is, is tea

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leaves.
It's just a.

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It tastes like.
Dirty.

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Like.
Very earthy.

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It's very earthy.
I like that description quite a

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bit.
I have a little ritual with my

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my kratom and I've always
consumed it as a tea and I look

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forward to it actually.
Like I draw Reiki symbols.

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I do energy work I draw Reiki
symbols like over my teacup to

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be like please help me and help
my body like send.

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Owl, I like that.
Into that medicine, you know, I

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will like pay over my bags when
they get here and be like

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medicine, please help me to
connect to the medicine on the

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spiritual level has been like
something new over these last

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three or four years.
And I like that aspect of it.

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It gives me comfort and it's
part of my daily routine and

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it's a part of me being grateful
to the plant.

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And that's something that like,
I don't think about having

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gratitude for pharmaceuticals,
you know, but I have this

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gratitude.
It's like care for my heart for

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kratom.
I'm so grateful it comes out of

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the earth to help me.
How it works on everything, I

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have no idea.
It's like I barely understand

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the science behind it.
But it it's like a cure all, you

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know, and it just gives you a
quality of life.

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It really does.
You make such great points here.

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Who is grateful for their
opioids?

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I never felt grateful taking my
opioids every day for my chronic

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pain, but I do feel so grateful
every day when I take my kratom.

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So I totally relate to what
you're saying.

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I'm sure others listening to
this can relate too because it's

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a plant, you know?
Plant medicine is helping so

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many of us.
Yeah.

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And I think we're seeing this
like there's a sea change

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happening where people really
want to go that route.

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They want to go towards plant
medicine and holistic medicines

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and functional medicines,
especially long term chronic

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pain patients.
We've been through it all and we

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know that there's more out there
like, and this is just one thing

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that helps.
There's so many things you can

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have in your tool kit, but it is
it is impressive to me how over

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the last five years the
community has grown so much.

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I think a lot of people found
kratom through COVID.

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I think a lot of people address
their addictions through COVID.

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I know a lot of people that I'm
friends with got off Suboxone

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with kratom, got off hard drugs
with kratom and have stayed

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sober.
And as a, a person that has

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about, you know, a good decade
at least of sobriety, like that

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really resonates with me.
And I think the that's a part of

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the community as well.
There's so many different people

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use kratom.
Like, my goodness, like there

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are grandmothers that use
kratom.

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When you start going through
these forums and looking through

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what the American Cratian
Association has to offer, like

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you see these congressional
hearings and these people's

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testimonies, and they're like,
you know, normal people like,

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and there's this, I feel
destigmatization starting to

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happen with Craten, like ever
since the FDA kind of backed

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down a few years ago.
Like I forget exactly when it

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was, I think it was. 20 It
started in 2016 where they tried

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to schedule it, but they kept
trying a few more times after

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that and were unsuccessful every
time.

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Yeah.
And I think that they realized

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because it helps so many people
stay off opioids and we haven't

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national epidemic.
I mean, I saw it at the library.

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I, I watched people OD in my
library, like in the streets,

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like it's everywhere.
So like anything that we can do

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to have other things in place
for those people, I do a lot of

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harm reduction, like as
volunteer work.

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And that's something that I'm
constantly being like, have you

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considered this?
Like, this is something that

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really worked to manage my pain,
you know, and I tell them my

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opioid story and my behavioral
health story because I feel like

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that's something that I don't
want to discount here.

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It's like it's not just chronic
pain.

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It really helps with PTSD.
I'm a sexual violence survivor

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and have incredibly bad panic
disorder and bipolar 1 and it

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really helps regulate my mood,
especially the yellow kratom

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like which for me was kind of
like it took a few years to

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discover yellow kratom that I
mostly was staring the

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traditional 3 and then that
stepped in around 2019 I started

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using yellow kratom as well.
Yeah, man, the benefits are so

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much better than the negative
aspects of the previous

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medications that I was on.
Reduced anxiety, better sleep.

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And sleep is so important when
you have a, like, stomach

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disease, like lupus because the
fatigue is unmatched.

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00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,920
Like, like, you can barely crawl
to the coffee pot in the

226
00:16:23,920 --> 00:16:26,400
morning.
You're stuck in bed with

227
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:31,520
stiffness for hours, but you get
that kratom in ya and it really

228
00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:35,600
makes a difference.
Mood regulation is a huge

229
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,840
benefit for me.
Yeah.

230
00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:42,840
More energy overall, more focus.
Brain fog is a symptom of lupus

231
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:48,400
that I have, and the white
kratom really helps me with

232
00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,320
focus.
Also some of the late super

233
00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:59,600
greens really help and it
reduces muscular and joint pain

234
00:16:59,600 --> 00:17:02,240
for me.
Systemic relief.

235
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:05,400
I can't use that phrase enough.
Ache.

236
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,240
It's I, it's like.
You get a lot of benefits from

237
00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,760
kratom with all the different
things you have going on with

238
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,839
you.
It's not just for your chronic

239
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:18,560
pain.
It sounds like you're getting

240
00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:23,200
every aspect with your medical
issues coming from this one

241
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,359
plant.
Prior to kratom, were you taking

242
00:17:25,359 --> 00:17:28,200
other medications besides
opioids for all your other

243
00:17:28,200 --> 00:17:32,640
health issues?
Oh yeah, I was on 11 different

244
00:17:32,640 --> 00:17:35,560
medications.
And were you able to, when you

245
00:17:35,600 --> 00:17:38,960
switched to kratom, were you
able to stop all those or most

246
00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,080
of those?
I was able to drop 4

247
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:46,160
medications.
I was able to drop my my muscle

248
00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:57,400
relaxer and like my opioids,
which I was on two of those and

249
00:17:57,440 --> 00:18:04,880
I was able to drop down on the
benzo that I take.

250
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,320
And that was a big surprise for
all of us because we didn't

251
00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,640
think that that would be an
outcome.

252
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:16,760
And they also had me, of course,
'cause they have everybody at

253
00:18:16,760 --> 00:18:18,680
some point, right?
Gabapin.

254
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,840
Oh.
Yeah, Oh yeah, of course.

255
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:21,720
So useless.
Cut.

256
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:27,920
I could do a whole podcast on
how stupid gabapin is but like.

257
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,400
They prescribe it to everybody
for everything.

258
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,120
Everything and it's approved for
dogs and shingles.

259
00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:41,200
I heard, I heard that like.
You know, so I was able to come

260
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,960
on with all of those and with
kratom.

261
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,640
I bet your doctors were so
surprised.

262
00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:50,280
First of all, it's amazing you
had all these doctors on your

263
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,440
medical team that were open
minded to kratom because so many

264
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,600
times we hear that people talk
to their doctors and they're

265
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,000
like, Oh no, you can't take
that.

266
00:18:59,000 --> 00:19:01,680
I read something about how
dangerous that is.

267
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,800
And I've heard stories where
doctors have said it's either me

268
00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:06,520
or kratom.
Like you pick one.

269
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:10,320
It's like, wow.
But you you had very open minded

270
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,880
doctors and that they also went
and researched it on their own.

271
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:18,720
That's still amazing to hear.
I have a fantastic medical team

272
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:25,000
and I think that that's one of
your, your greatest protections.

273
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,520
I was like, weapons isn't the
right word.

274
00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,560
It's one of your greatest
protections.

275
00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:34,400
Like you want to be your own
advocate, but you need them to

276
00:19:34,880 --> 00:19:38,120
be on board with you and
advocate for you as well.

277
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:44,400
And there was no data saying
that it was a bad idea.

278
00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:47,760
They couldn't come up with
anything being like this is

279
00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:53,880
actually like not something that
we want Nova on, you know, and

280
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,840
gradually everybody was on
board.

281
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:05,360
It took about a year of me using
very sporadically consuming and.

282
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:12,400
I wanted all of them to agree.
I didn't want anybody to any of

283
00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:15,920
my medical team or my family, my
partner.

284
00:20:16,280 --> 00:20:19,400
I wanted everybody to be on the
same page with me.

285
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:24,920
This was like a treatment that
really was going to help save my

286
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:31,800
life because the reality of the
amount of comorbidities that I

287
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:38,960
have and to try to imagine not
being on any of those pending

288
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,120
pain medications.
I don't know if I would have

289
00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,800
survived.
Like I don't know if I would

290
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,160
have been able to make it to
where I am now.

291
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:57,080
When I think about pre lupus
diagnosis, those like roughly

292
00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:01,080
like six years.
When I think about that period

293
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:07,320
that I wasn't consuming kratom
for nearly five years of that

294
00:21:07,320 --> 00:21:10,160
period, I don't know how I got
through it.

295
00:21:10,480 --> 00:21:13,760
Like sure will.
I don't think I could do it now.

296
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:20,560
And especially after my
experiences with sexual

297
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:26,360
violence, it was, you know, and
with bipolar also, that's like

298
00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:28,760
one of the leading causes of
death.

299
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:35,600
So I really mean it when I say
the IT curbed my suicidal

300
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,440
ideation because when you're in
that much pain, you do not want

301
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,440
to like live.
You don't want to make it from

302
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:48,000
hour to hour, well done,
day-to-day.

303
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:53,440
And you're never going to want
to think about a month down the

304
00:21:53,440 --> 00:21:58,120
road minus going to the pharmacy
and going to your doctor's

305
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:01,480
appointments is your whole life.
It becomes your whole identity.

306
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:10,280
Chronic pain and kratom allowed
me to be myself, you know?

307
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,240
That's so your story is just
incredible.

308
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,920
I want to go back to when you
first said you heard about

309
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:18,440
kratom.
I think you said a friend told

310
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:22,320
you about it 2012, so 2 years
before you actually started it.

311
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,080
How did that come up?
Like how did they tell you about

312
00:22:25,080 --> 00:22:27,800
kratom back then?
Oh, this is like one of my

313
00:22:27,800 --> 00:22:34,880
oldest friends and they were
living in Oregon and they had

314
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:39,840
been exposed to kratom.
They had long term kind of pain

315
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:45,000
and major depressive disorder.
And they just picked up the

316
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:51,120
phone one day to check in on me
because they knew that I was

317
00:22:51,120 --> 00:22:55,520
struggling and I had detoxed
like medically stepped down off

318
00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:01,000
of all of my pain medication.
And they knew that I was in an

319
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,520
incredible amount of pain
because my then husband had

320
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,520
reached out to them to let them
know that I was in trouble.

321
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:13,240
And he, he really helped me
understand that there was

322
00:23:13,240 --> 00:23:16,840
something else out there.
And I always trusted him when it

323
00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:22,000
came to natural remedies.
Like he got me into like lion's

324
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,880
mane and chaga and Rishi and
like all of those good things.

325
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:33,760
Ashwagandha, you know, so he, he
was always a great resource and

326
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:38,080
I trusted him.
And it took me through the long

327
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:43,480
period for me to be OK with it
because I was worried hearing,

328
00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:46,200
oh, it bonds to the opioid
receptors.

329
00:23:46,240 --> 00:23:50,440
I don't want to feel high.
And that was like, to go from,

330
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,880
like, feeling incredibly high
all the time to the point where

331
00:23:55,880 --> 00:23:58,480
I couldn't function.
And I was like, drooling.

332
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:03,800
I was so overmedicated, you
know, I didn't want to go back

333
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:08,000
there.
So I was very, very cautious

334
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,560
when I started out.
But if it hadn't been for my

335
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,720
friend telling me about it, I
don't know how many years it

336
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,880
would have taken me to find it.
It was divine timing.

337
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,320
It really was.
That's what it sounds like.

338
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,440
And back in 2012 when you first
heard of it there, there wasn't

339
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,880
a lot of information out there
about it.

340
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,600
I'm sure you said earlier you
did like 2 years of researching

341
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:32,480
it.
Was it just hard to find it?

342
00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,560
Because, I mean, when I
discovered in 2019, there wasn't

343
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,760
nearly as much information as
there is now, but I can't even

344
00:24:38,760 --> 00:24:40,880
imagine what it would have been
like in 2012.

345
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,280
It was incredibly hard to find
information.

346
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:50,840
My brother's wife is from
Thailand and I started to ask

347
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,200
her what like she knew about
kratom and she gave me so much

348
00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:01,920
information and and that was
really helpful.

349
00:25:02,320 --> 00:25:09,240
Like being a librarian, I mean,
I can research with the best of

350
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,880
them.
So I was looking at any

351
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:17,840
abstracts to any trials that had
happened, any information I

352
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:22,160
could find at all.
And that's why it took me those

353
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,120
two years to feel comfortable
because it took so long to

354
00:25:26,280 --> 00:25:30,680
access information.
And as my own advocate, I want

355
00:25:30,680 --> 00:25:35,400
to have as much information as
possible before I make any

356
00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:39,720
changes to like my day-to-day
medical care.

357
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:43,800
So yeah, it was really rough.
There's so much more out there

358
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:48,640
now, like again with it just
feeling more destigmatized.

359
00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:53,080
Even in the last couple years,
last like 2 years, you hear

360
00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:58,560
about these kratom bars popping
up in New York City and like,

361
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,560
I'm like, what?
That's, that's awesome.

362
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,680
Actually.
You can just step in somewhere

363
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:09,320
and have some kratom, meet some
friends, like, but they're like,

364
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,120
yeah, it just doesn't seem like
people are as afraid of it.

365
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:20,280
And I feel like once the FDA, it
was 2016, like, once the FDA

366
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:25,080
like, stepped down, like, there
started to be more information

367
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:31,040
Now with the manufacturing
practices that that got a little

368
00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:34,720
sketchy there for a while.
It's sourcing good Kratom was

369
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:40,520
hard for a while, but once I
found my rhythm and I found my

370
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:47,120
vendors and I found my strains
like that really helped that.

371
00:26:47,440 --> 00:26:50,640
Just learning really.
Yeah, 'cause it can take some

372
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:55,120
trial and error to just figure
out which kind, which color, how

373
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:58,160
much to dose.
But let me ask you this, So you

374
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,480
hear about in 2012, you did a
bunch of research, you finally

375
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:05,120
started it in 2014.
What made you finally decide to

376
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:09,840
just go for it and try it?
I was in tremendous pain and my

377
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,440
rheumatologist and I didn't know
what to do.

378
00:27:12,720 --> 00:27:18,080
And she wanted to, she was like,
do you want opioids?

379
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:21,840
And I was like, I think I have
another option.

380
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,680
I'm going to tell you about it.
And I did.

381
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:28,920
And she was like, let's give it
a try.

382
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:33,760
Let's give it a month.
Like breakthrough pain only like

383
00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:40,280
so like 7 out of 10 pain when it
gets that high, try it like when

384
00:27:40,280 --> 00:27:43,840
your pain level is out of reach
like that, go for it.

385
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:50,280
And that's when I was like, OK,
this actually really works for

386
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,560
that level of pain.
And I didn't expect that,

387
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:58,520
especially for it to have that
ceiling where I did not feel

388
00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,360
intoxicated.
Like that was brand new to me.

389
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:10,040
Like, I mean, my feet felt warm.
That was a weird side effect of

390
00:28:10,040 --> 00:28:12,880
cranium that I had to get used
to.

391
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:14,880
I was like, feet are sweaty.
I haven't.

392
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:17,280
Heard of that one before, that's
interesting.

393
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:22,320
Like that's just me.
I don't know if that's just

394
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:27,920
helping push inflammation out of
my body or what, but that was

395
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,480
where that's where I started
with that.

396
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:34,560
That's amazing that you like,
you know, you and your doctor

397
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:37,960
talked about it and you just
went for it to see how how well

398
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:40,960
it would work.
Did did you get results right

399
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:43,480
away when you started or did
like how long did it take you to

400
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:45,880
figure out what kind, what dose
and all that?

401
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:50,240
I had the hardest time even
figuring out how to dose.

402
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,480
Like so like I would read like
these forums and they'd be like

403
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,560
toss and wash and I'm like, that
sounds like the cinnamon

404
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,120
challenge.
I don't know if I can do that.

405
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Like I feel like that's just
going to come right back out.

406
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:14,800
So I, I started with tea and I
used a teaspoon to measure and I

407
00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,480
just kind of trusted my guy and
started with one teaspoon and

408
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:25,760
worked up from there to where I
got to the like therapeutic

409
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,000
level that I needed.
And it was really a matter of

410
00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,320
knowing what my pain scale is on
a certain day is going to

411
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:39,960
definitely affect the dosage
that I do.

412
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:44,720
So it doesn't have to be so
regimented.

413
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:48,960
Some days I'll have 5 grams,
some days I'll have 10.

414
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:51,720
Some days I'll have no grams at
all.

415
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:56,720
Like those are my favorite days
because that means I'm having a

416
00:29:56,720 --> 00:30:01,200
good day and but I still have
that gratitude for the plant.

417
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,040
I'm like, I don't need you
today.

418
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,720
Isn't that great?
Nice feeling I bet and let me

419
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:10,280
ask you this because all my tik
toks people are always like oh

420
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:12,960
it's addicting and you just wait
till you stop and you're going

421
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,400
to have withdrawals.
So on days where you don't take

422
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:17,080
it, do you feel any withdrawals
from it?

423
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:22,640
I do not actually.
And like I think that comes from

424
00:30:22,640 --> 00:30:28,120
taking tolerance breaks.
Like there'll be periods where

425
00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:33,520
I'm using it every day.
Like for the last three months

426
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:40,360
I've used it every day and
before that I was using it maybe

427
00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:46,600
once a week for about 3 or 4
months prior to that every day.

428
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:51,040
So it just depends.
But I've never had any

429
00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,640
withdrawal symptoms like I
don't.

430
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:56,560
Yeah, and I know everybody's
different.

431
00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,160
People are affected differently.
It sounds like you tolerate it

432
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,160
really well.
You listen to your body and

433
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:05,080
that's how you know how much to
take on a day-to-day basis.

434
00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,960
And you take breaks when you're
not in pain.

435
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,720
It's amazing to hear.
And you're not suffering from

436
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,520
any issues on days you don't
take kratom at all.

437
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,520
So it sounds like you're doing
everything right and you're not

438
00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,520
overusing it.
And you know, also that seems to

439
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,440
be the issue we run into or
people overusing it.

440
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,880
They're, it's almost like
they're chasing something

441
00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:27,120
they're not going to get because
again, like you said, it doesn't

442
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:28,480
get you high.
But I think.

443
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:32,360
People hear about kratom and
they think, oh, I can get high

444
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,520
from this because it works on
the same receptors, but it

445
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,080
doesn't do it the same way and
you don't get high from it.

446
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:42,680
And then in chasing that high, I
think people run into issues

447
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,640
where they're overusing and then
they might run into a problem

448
00:31:45,640 --> 00:31:49,200
trying to stop.
And that like, it's interesting

449
00:31:49,200 --> 00:31:54,480
to me that like there's that
ceiling, the affinity piece with

450
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:59,000
the way that it works on our
receptors in our brain.

451
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:05,800
And like the, you know, if you
take too much, like you're not

452
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:10,960
going to OD, you're just going
to like maybe get nauseous,

453
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,960
vomit, have terrible
Constipation.

454
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,600
Like you're not going to be zoom
in.

455
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,520
You're not going to feel like
you're not going to feel like

456
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:26,240
you're on an oxy, Like you're
not going to feel like you're on

457
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:29,400
a transdermal fentanyl patch.
You're not going to feel like

458
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,200
you're on a compounded opioid.
You're never going to get that

459
00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,760
that in your mind.
And I think that that is the

460
00:32:37,760 --> 00:32:40,160
key.
Like your body needs a certain

461
00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,200
amount of pain relief, but after
a while you feel like your brain

462
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:47,120
needs it too.
And you have to really question

463
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,320
those days, Am I taking this
because I want to feel a

464
00:32:52,320 --> 00:32:57,360
different way in my mind?
Or am I taking this because I am

465
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:00,360
in pain?
And it's always good to ask

466
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:05,720
yourself that question.
You know, I do think that kratom

467
00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:12,960
can be abused in extract or
seven OH form, and I feel like

468
00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:20,600
it's bringing a lot of just bad
vibes to like the whole kratom

469
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:24,000
scene and it's going to mess it
up for all of us.

470
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,520
And that stuff just needs to be
off the market.

471
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,440
It's terrible.
And I don't want to see that

472
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,960
around.
But yeah, I've never felt the

473
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,680
way that I used to feel on my
medications.

474
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,320
Psychologically, I've never had
to pull off the side of the road

475
00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:47,560
because I'm on kratom.
I did on my pain medication.

476
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,080
That's a big difference, you
know.

477
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:53,400
That's a huge difference.
There's even been a study done

478
00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:57,000
on driving while taking kratom
that Doctor Kirsten Smith has

479
00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,080
done not too long ago.
Yeah.

480
00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,120
Because I think people just,
they hear about kratom, they

481
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,840
don't quite understand it.
And when they hear, oh, works on

482
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,159
the same receptor as opioids,
you can't drive.

483
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,560
You're going to stop breathing
if you take like they just had.

484
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,280
They're not gathering all the
facts.

485
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,960
It's incredibly frustrating.
Yeah, It doesn't affect your

486
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:20,520
respiratory rays.
Like you can operate heavy

487
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,600
machinery.
I mean, I understand that it

488
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:27,400
doesn't have that.
Like, oh, well, the FDA says

489
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,120
this and that, you know, and
people want that.

490
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:36,480
But for me, I've never had the
if I can't drive, it's because

491
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:41,280
my joints in my hand can't hold
on to the wheel, not because my

492
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,560
brain can't hold on to the
wheel.

493
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:48,480
And that's the difference
between 17 years of opioid use

494
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:51,560
and 10 years of kratom.
Yeah, wow.

495
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,159
When you were first starting to
take kratom, how did you figure

496
00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:57,800
out, like, where to buy it from?
Because again, back when you

497
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,680
started, there wasn't a lot of
information available.

498
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,560
So how did you figure out where
to even buy it from?

499
00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:09,240
So my friend from Oregon would
send me some to get me started

500
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:13,600
and when I would go out there
and visit, like he would take me

501
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:19,040
to places that he knew I had it.
And then I started to see it pop

502
00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:23,880
up where I live in Ohio around
2015.

503
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:31,000
And then the distributor that I
use opened in 2018 and I've been

504
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:33,600
pretty loyal to them.
They're local, good

505
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:39,400
manufacturing practices like
third party tested and excellent

506
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:44,320
customer service.
But yeah, it was a little tricky

507
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:48,760
there at the beginning to source
it like it was then.

508
00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,480
I did what everybody does at the
very beginning.

509
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:56,000
I did head shop kratom and it
did not work for me.

510
00:35:56,360 --> 00:36:00,800
It did not work as well as the
product that I gotten out on the

511
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,200
West Coast.
And I realized that it was

512
00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:09,720
because it wasn't as pure.
So that became like, I'm so

513
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,080
careful about what I put in my
body.

514
00:36:12,360 --> 00:36:16,080
I want to make sure that this
product is as pure as possible,

515
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,440
that this is, you know, as safe
as possible.

516
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,560
Absolutely.
Your story is just so

517
00:36:22,560 --> 00:36:24,000
interesting.
I'm just loving this

518
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,640
conversation.
You've been through a lot over

519
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:29,880
the years with all of your
medical stuff.

520
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,200
When you're consuming kratom and
it's working really well, what

521
00:36:33,200 --> 00:36:35,000
does it bring your pain level
down to?

522
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:45,840
I usually wake up in a six level
of pain and I will take my

523
00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,520
anti-inflammatory first thing in
the morning.

524
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:52,640
I'm still on that and that kind
of tamps it down for a little

525
00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:59,280
bit and then I do somewhere
around 3 hours after waking up

526
00:36:59,520 --> 00:37:03,360
to help with my morning
stiffness and help me start to

527
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:08,880
be able to function.
I have to take a medication for

528
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,880
brain pog I take or Modafinil
for brain fog.

529
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:18,960
So I have to be careful to kind
of stagger not taking any greens

530
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:24,640
or why it's like so close to
when my medication kicks in.

531
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:27,200
So does that answer your
question?

532
00:37:27,680 --> 00:37:31,240
Yeah, I'm just curious, like,
does it just like reduce your

533
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:34,120
pain level, like once you take
your cranium, does it just bring

534
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,880
your pain level down super low?
You know, I, it's always

535
00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:40,240
interesting to me because some
people will say that it works as

536
00:37:40,240 --> 00:37:43,080
good as when they took opioids
for their pain relief, but then

537
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,720
some people say it works way
better than the opioids did.

538
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:50,120
I feel like it works better.
I really do.

539
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:56,640
I feel like it brings my pain
down to a tolerable level where

540
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:00,440
I can do activities of daily
living.

541
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:06,080
I can bathe myself, I can dress
myself, I can stand for 1/2

542
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,640
hour.
That's a big deal.

543
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:12,960
Like I might not need my cane.
I can hold on to the steering

544
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,160
wheel.
I can hold on to a pen like

545
00:38:17,360 --> 00:38:20,960
these are all things that I
could not do because the pain

546
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,640
would be so severe.
I would be so stiff that my

547
00:38:24,640 --> 00:38:28,360
hands would not function.
I couldn't turn on a faucet.

548
00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,160
I couldn't button my shirt.
You know what I mean?

549
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:39,640
So it's really helped give me
that kind of autonomy back like,

550
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,360
and I still have bad days.
I still have bad days even with

551
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:49,200
kratom but it it does bring it
down to at least a four.

552
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:53,040
So I, you know, people always
tell me when I meet them and

553
00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:55,480
talk about kratom that they
don't really believe me at first

554
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:58,760
until they get to know me
because I will say my pain level

555
00:38:58,760 --> 00:39:02,120
goes to a zero.
And I'm not making this up.

556
00:39:02,120 --> 00:39:04,880
When I was in pain management,
taking opioids, a lot of

557
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,880
opioids, not as much as you, but
a lot for my, I have

558
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,400
degenerative disc disease in
both my neck and back and it's

559
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,880
very, very severe.
And even on a good day with my

560
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:19,040
opioids, my pain level would be
like a six or seven easily many

561
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:21,880
times 8 or 9.
Like I I was really suffering

562
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,120
the pain that's helped, but I
was still in a lot of pain.

563
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,720
And when I discover Kratom and
started taking it, it brings my

564
00:39:28,720 --> 00:39:32,360
pain level to a zero for about
well, at first it took about

565
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:35,400
maybe it go for like 3 hours,
four hours overtime.

566
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,040
I've gotten all the way to six
hours.

567
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:38,960
So I can do this every six
hours.

568
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,840
And my back and neck hardly
bothered me.

569
00:39:40,840 --> 00:39:44,720
Now, sometimes it'll bother me a
little bit, but not like it was.

570
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,040
But I seriously get down to a 0.
Is that like crazy?

571
00:39:48,040 --> 00:39:51,160
Because I don't come across many
people now that many people say

572
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:54,360
that they say like what you say
it brings it down to like a four

573
00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:56,800
or it definitely works better
than the meds.

574
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,800
But I've yet to come across
somebody that says your pain

575
00:39:59,800 --> 00:40:02,880
levels is 0.
And I, I speak my truth.

576
00:40:02,880 --> 00:40:05,080
I mean, people don't believe me.
That's OK.

577
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:07,840
But I seriously just feel
amazing.

578
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,240
I'm not suffering.
I'm so grateful that you found a

579
00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:16,120
treatment that works for you
because I know first hand how

580
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:19,480
debilitating, degenerative, just
diseases.

581
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,840
I don't have any discs of one
through S1.

582
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:28,320
They're all gone.
And I have osteoporosis and that

583
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:32,960
region of my spine now.
And I can absolutely empathize

584
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:36,600
with what that pain is like.
And it's amazing that it brings

585
00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:42,240
you to us here and then amazing
found you use mostly greens,

586
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:44,320
right?
Greens are what works for me.

587
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:46,240
It took some trial and error to
figure it out.

588
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:51,600
But what I found over time was
that if I take green and with

589
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:54,800
some orange juice or pineapple
juice or some kind of citrus

590
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,920
juice, and that helps me too
with the with the potentiating

591
00:40:58,360 --> 00:41:01,680
so it lasts longer.
And I've been consuming kratom

592
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,600
for almost six years every day.
I've never not taken it.

593
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:08,040
I went completely from opioids
because I got dropped from pain

594
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,400
management through no fault of
my own.

595
00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:10,520
But you know, doctors are
scared.

596
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,160
They don't want to prescribe.
And I got dropped and so did a

597
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,160
lot of other people.
And we didn't do anything wrong.

598
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,040
I followed all the rules.
I never got in trouble.

599
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:21,560
The doctor even told me once or
twice that I was a model patient

600
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:23,600
because I was still trying to
work.

601
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:27,120
I mean, I pushed through it as
hard as it was being in pain all

602
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:29,480
the time.
I still, you know, if I could

603
00:41:29,480 --> 00:41:32,040
get on a computer or a laptop
and be on the Internet, which

604
00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:34,640
you can do from anywhere, I
could still try to do some work.

605
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:36,520
And he was always impressed with
me.

606
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:38,760
So it was heartbreaking to lose
access.

607
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:40,840
So I had to find I like, I had
no choice.

608
00:41:40,840 --> 00:41:43,200
I had to figure out something
because I couldn't find another

609
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,520
doctor to take over.
When you're at high level

610
00:41:45,520 --> 00:41:48,080
opioids, doctors do not want to
take over.

611
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,480
They do not there.
No, they don't.

612
00:41:50,480 --> 00:41:52,480
And I could not.
I live in a very large city.

613
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:54,720
I could not find one doctor that
would take over.

614
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,640
And it was just ridiculous, you
know?

615
00:41:57,640 --> 00:41:59,760
And I hear it's happening a lot
more now.

616
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,240
I mean, this was almost 6.
This was six years ago when this

617
00:42:02,240 --> 00:42:03,840
happened.
At the beginning of like when

618
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:10,080
they were like, oh, there's a
real opioid problem, like and I

619
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,160
had quite a few friends that
were dropped from their pain

620
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,600
management doctors.
I'm the only person that I know

621
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:20,000
that fired.
They're a pain management

622
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:22,040
doctor.
I'm hearing that more and more

623
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,960
though now because people, what
I'm finding, especially on

624
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,600
TikTok, people are discovering
me and other cranium consumers

625
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,240
that use it for pain and they're
like, wait a minute, there's an

626
00:42:32,240 --> 00:42:34,560
alternative.
I want to research this.

627
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:37,040
And so some people are starting
to tell me now that they've

628
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,440
learned about kratom through me
and they have fired their pain

629
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,080
management doctor.
How amazing.

630
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,600
I mean, I don't really come
across people like you that

631
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:48,400
first fired your pain doctor and
started using kratom because you

632
00:42:48,400 --> 00:42:52,200
don't hear it very often.
But I think people are fed up

633
00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,400
with the healthcare system and
all you hear about is people

634
00:42:56,400 --> 00:43:00,000
getting dropped or they're
tapering them down against their

635
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,520
will and, and forcing them to a
lot less, which puts them in way

636
00:43:03,520 --> 00:43:06,480
more pain.
And people are just looking for

637
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:10,120
something else.
And that's why I do all this.

638
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:12,680
I do the podcast, I host the
kratom Real Talk community.

639
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:15,280
I do the kratom gals.
I want people to know that

640
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:17,400
there's an alternative.
Because I spent nine years in

641
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:19,320
pain management.
I never heard of kratom.

642
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:21,920
I didn't hear about it until I
got dropped from pain management

643
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,160
and happened to see a
documentary, A Leap of Faith.

644
00:43:24,720 --> 00:43:27,640
And it was definitely divine
timing because it was right when

645
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:30,760
I was running out of the meds
and I don't know, my choice was

646
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,640
to go to the streets.
Like doctors don't understand

647
00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,320
what they're doing to
healthcare.

648
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,880
It's sad.
It's sad, but your story, Nova

649
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:42,120
is so amazing.
I just really loving this

650
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:46,360
conversation.
The last question I have for you

651
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,600
is knowing everything you know
now about kratom, and you've

652
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:52,400
been in this for a long time, a
lot longer than me, what advice

653
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,120
would you give someone to help
them get started in their own

654
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:58,120
journey?
I actually read this down

655
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:05,920
knowing what I know now.
Take your time, research, get

656
00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:11,760
samples because a lot of vendors
will give samples so you can try

657
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:17,200
things outlook for discount
codes because that's a thing

658
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:22,840
keeping airtight containers.
Rotate your stock regularly,

659
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:27,320
rotate your strains, buy in bulk
when there's a deal.

660
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:33,720
I think especially now what I've
just heard with the tariffs and

661
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:39,840
like the lowest supply coming
out of Indonesia, I think it's

662
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:43,640
important that we all kind of
make sure that we have our

663
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:47,880
medicine on hand.
And then most of all, keep a

664
00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:55,520
pain journal and track your use
every day and how you feel and

665
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,440
physically.
That's all great advice, Nova.

666
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:03,920
I'm so glad we met in a TikTok
live randomly recently and that

667
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:07,480
you spent time coming over to
Share your story with my

668
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:09,280
community.
Thank you so much for doing

669
00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,680
this.
Thank you for

670
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:19,960
listeningyoucangetmoreinformation@kratomstoriespodcast.com
including show notes from this

671
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:20,560
episode.