Ep 66: From Touring Musician to Kratom Advocate, Jeremy Steding’s Powerful Transformation

0:00 Anybody that knows kratom, which I suppose most people on here know that the the effect is, is not like alcohol at all, but there was just something that settled down my brain and, and, and kind of settled down that urge to, to have it. So I'm here with Jeremy Stunning from 1836 Kratom, somebody in our community that y'all need to know about. Jeremy, I'm so excited to have you come on the Kratom Stories podcast to share your personal story with kratom, your advocacy work, and what you're doing with your own kratom business.

0:49 So welcome. Sure. Thank you so much. I'm grateful to be here. I appreciate it. Yeah, I, I'm so glad I, you know, I, I love connecting with people in our community and having them share their stories. It is so interesting how we all have our own personal journey with Kratom, but we can all learn from each other, you know, through that. And we get so many people that listen to our episodes and just feel more connected to our community and feeling less alone in their own kratom journey. So I'm excited to hear your story and how you started. So why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself and life before creative? Yeah, sure. So I grew up in Florida and moved to Texas in 2007, shortly out of college to pursue a music career. I was a big fan of the Texas artist guys like Robert Earl Keen and Corey Morrow at the time. And so moved out here, you know, started making albums. We, we put out five studio albums. We were touring all the time, you know, I was playing 200 plus dates a year and really, really enjoyed that. It was a lot of fun.

1:59 Of course with performing like that, you know, booze and alcohol go hand in hand. It's just a big part of it. You know, everybody's partying. And so that became, you know, somewhat problematic in my life, just the, the amount of alcohol that I was consuming. And my wife, Tiffany and I, we had our first son, who is almost 10 years old now. He was born in 2015. And it was really just kind of synergistic. I was in a little store by the house on Anderson Lane in Austin, TX. And there was a product that's still on the market that I won't call by name, but it's, it's designed to look like prescription focus enhancing medication.

2:49 And I asked the proprietor, I said, hey, man, you know what's up with that? Is that, is that legit? And he said, well, no, man. You know, it's he's like, those are your caffeine pills. It's just branded like that. Now. I've struggled with ADHD for my whole life. It's been a thing growing up. I was raised in the Christian Science church. So we did not get any medicine, including like Advil, Tylenol, anything like that. It's it's a religion that isn't super popular anymore, you know, but anyhow, so so I've never had any kind of prescription or anything. And he said, you know, if you're looking for something for focus, I've got this tea, it's from Thailand.

3:32 He's like, I don't know a ton about it, but people seem to really like it. Now. This was just Kratom capsules, bright green kratom, just, he just had it in a jar, you know, and he said, here you go, here you go, man. And he, he pulled me a few of them out. He gave me about 10 capsules and he said, you know, you, you're going to, he's like you, you probably want three to five of them. He's like, it's just a leaf ground up in there. And I tried it and it was absolutely incredible. I was like, this is wonderful, you know, and I was locked in. I was booking gigs that day, which was most of my time at home and I was like, wow, this is incredible.

4:12 I wanted to learn about it. And so I looked it up and everything that I saw, of course, especially back then was pretty negative, pretty scary. Kept talking to, you know, I kept seeing the word opiate and I was like, that is, that's not what I had. I was like, that doesn't make any sense. What I had was something that really helped my focus. Really. I wasn't tired. I wasn't, you know, I was locked in and focused. And so I started doing more research, ended up buying some kratom from him. I started consuming it regularly. Then I, you know, after a month or couple months, I was like, I don't know, you know, because everything that I read was, was really negative. So stop taking it for a while, you know, and no issue or anything with that.

4:59 And I was like, well, you know, I don't know. And it was around that time that kratom advocacy was really starting to mobilize. This is around 20/13/2014. And I found the American Kratom Association and started reading about it, reading about different perspectives on kratom. And I was like, yeah, you know, this is, this is interesting. And it was super helpful to me. So I started consuming kratom again and I felt good about it. You know, I'd, I'd found places where I can get a little more information, positive information about it. And I was still playing music full time as a career. I was also serving tables and driving Lyft to make ends meet rideshare. And anyhow, so my wife and I moved to Nashville in June of 2016 with the goal of pursuing A songwriting contract. You know, most of the major artists, they don't write their own songs.

5:54 Teams of songwriters write these. By the time that we we got to Nashville, I was just kind of over it. You know, we, we've been at it for a long time. I had some success, which I'm super grateful for, but it was just what it was going to be and, and I was over it, man. So started thinking about what I wanted to do. There was 1 pointed conversation between Tiffany and I. We're in our apartment in Nashville. And she said, hey, you know, you're not going to like this, but you need to make some money. You know, the, the starving artist thing is legit.

6:35 It's real. You know, it's, there's a pyramid and nobody except the little tiny, very sharpest point in that pyramid is, is really able to make a true living. And I said, no, you know, you're right. And so I started thinking about what I wanted to do, what I wanted to do with the rest of my life. I was over music. I was over being away from our one year old for the entire weekend, coming home with, you know, 150 bucks in my pocket after working for 3-4 days. Then I started thinking and, and you know, I was like, well, what popped into my head was kratom. I was like, you know, I, I love this. I think it's really interesting, especially back then, so much of the branding and marketing of it was so different than the way that I really perceive kratom.

7:28 It was branded and marketed like drugs. You know, you got these crazy psychedelic pictures and stuff, which is really out of line with, with the way that kratom actually affects me at least, you know, and I, the, the majority of people that I speak to and of course, at that time, we're living in Nashville at the time, Tennessee had a ban on kratom. So I may or may not have driven up to Franklin, KY to purchase kratom. And when I, when I first went up, I was like, Oh my God, these prices are insane. And so I started thinking, you know, I can, I can buy this at what I know how to buy it for in Austin, which obviously wasn't the right move.

8:15 So for a period of time, I linked up with an old friend and we started talking about it, researching vendors, you know, just just kind of got lucky on a guy that reached out from Facebook. Which any of you that have ever posted the word kratom on Facebook know what I'm talking about, man. You know, I know that they've kind of restricted that unfortunately now. But if you've ever posted the word kratom, especially back then, you would have 25 people from Indonesia asked if you wanted to buy crate them and we ended up figuring one out. I did get AI ended up as we decided to do the business. I got a storage unit and APO box in Franklin, KY, So that would you know that would be the home of it not in Nashville.

9:03 And anyhow, so we found one that works and it was like, OK, cool. So started just designing packages using pit monkey and made our first kratom sale in May of 2017 and then just started going from there. You know we we had the storage unit which was a A5 by 10:00 and had all the equipment. I would run things. We are fully AKAGMP now. I would love for you to see the factory, but at that time we were sealing bags off a car battery because it was a storage unit, so it wasn't powered, but. But yeah, anyhow, so it was just the the role that kratom had played in my life and the improvements that that led me to start the business.

9:54 I know I'm kind of going around the block to get back there, but I was talking about the alcohol in the way that that goes along with with playing music for a living. And it was Kratom when I decided to take a long break. I will still have a drink now, you know, but it's not common. It's social, you know, and it's it's moderate like it like it really should be. But but I decided that I need, you know, take a long break away from alcohol and and Kratom was just really, really helpful for me. Anybody that knows Kratom, which I suppose most people on here know that the the effect is, is not like alcohol at all, but there was just something that settled down my brain and, and, and kind of settled down that urge to to have it.

10:48 And so, yeah, so, so it was tremendously and helpful for me in both aspects. It was helpful for, for focus and getting work done. And then it was also incredibly helpful as I really, really, I mean like 97% reduced alcohol consumption. So, so it was all of that that that led me to to start the business and we moved back to Austin from Nashville on December 20th, 2017 was the day that I moved all our stuff back. Tiffany and Jackson went down to Florida to be with our families the exact day that I took everything back to Austin, TX. Tennessee flipped the law on the exact day. It was crazy, man.

11:35 So December 20th, 2017, Tennessee declared that kratom is in fact legal. The law had been written, you know, for a synthetic. And so it's just a strange turn of events, you know, and I'm super happy that it worked out the way that it did. But that happened two weeks earlier. I probably would have said, hey, we got to stay here. We've got this business started and whatnot. But yeah, But yeah, yeah, pretty wild. That that is why. What an interesting story. Thank you for sharing all that. So when you first started Krana, when you were in that shop, it was primarily just for the focus like your, your intention was like, you know, this would help for focus, not thinking about the whole alcohol aspect, right? Not.

12:17 At all? Not at all. Yeah. It's so interesting because so many people I've talked to on social media or in person and here on the podcast, there've been people that say they took it for whatever thing, whatever specific thing, but then said like what you say, it really helps me curb alcohol. Like it was like this secondary thing they weren't expecting, but actually like that it helps with that. You know, I had a lady I interviewed recently and it it, it was to help her in her recovery, but not specifically alcohol is for drugs. But she said, you know, I've had some, you know, I've been consuming Kratom a few months. I've had beer in my fridge all this time. I don't want it. It would never last that long normally, but I have no desire to drink.

13:00 And she was actually going to just pour it out and she was not expecting that from kratom. That which is just so amazing from your plant. Yeah, it really, it really, really is incredible. You know, and I've, I've been a consumer now for about 12 years and the, the positives compared to negatives in my experience have been just incredible. You know, it's, it's been wonderful for me, you know, and I'm grateful now. Right now I've been consuming a little more Kratom. I'm kind of going back down a little bit. Just went through a period of real high stress getting ready for this year and stuff.

13:41 But you know, I'll take usually in the morning I'll take about 3 grams. I've been consuming most mostly our products. So I've been drinking the the Super fit in the morning, which is our caffeinated kratom drink that that we just came out with this year. And then throughout the day, I'll do like 1/2 of one of our lazy luaus or half of 1 of the green beans go cherry limeades, which is said the cherry limeade is just a bright green kratom in a cherry limeade. And by the way, after this, we'll get you, we'll send you out some, some stuff, but but I'll do like 1/2 of a lazy luao or a lazy lemonade, which is a Cava kratom ashwagandha. And the the total in the full bottle is 4G. So I'll do about like 2G at a time a few times throughout the day because I like to just have a, a small amount. I don't like to consume too much kratom because it makes me feel kind of tired.

14:35 And yeah. Yeah, and I'm sure being in the kratom industry, you've probably heard so many stories from people of how kratom has helped them for probably a a variety of things. I I think it's amazing that your story of how you started your kratom business and how you you've done this. I just, I find it fascinating, but so do y'all have I know you sell to like other like shops around the country, but do you actually have a storefront there in Austin? No, we don't have a storefront. We have an online platform that's that's ships from Austin, which is mostly friends and family and connections, but that's 1836 fitness.com. And so that does have all of our products. But yeah, we're, we're mostly retail B2B. We work with wonderful distributors here in Austin, Austin Wholesale supply And I, I would guess that we're in probably at least 1000 stores now because we have about 400 direct customers and then the the distributors send to a massive amount of people.

15:48 But yeah, if you're looking, if you are looking for a place to find 1836 kratom, you can find that on the website. There's a stores near you tab and that's got a map you can enter your zip code. That's not completely comprehensive because we don't know everybody that buys from the distros. And also soon on that we launched in the summer, we launched our trusted vendor program for retailers that we work with. Of course, we're incredibly grateful for for all of our retailers, but we really, really want to support those that seek to educate the consumer, that seek to transparently share ethically present kratom and take the time to really learn about it and understand it before doing so as opposed to looking at it as just a way to make a buck.

16:39 So we'll have that list up what will be soon, but those are are folks that have really gone the extra mile to educate themselves and their employees and such. I love that. What's so cool about your website, Jeremy, is like how you, you focus on educating people that come to your site. Many times vendors. It's like, here's our products and and maybe there's a blog, maybe there's a little bit of information about Kratom, but you really go that extra mile. You have an article on your site says 770 H is not kratom. I think you're the only kratom company I've seen that has posted something like that because that 70 H is just, you know, crazy stuff going on with that because it's not technically Kratom, but everybody thinks it's kratom because their packaging will say and kratom on it.

17:29 And I'm going to link to all of this with this podcast so people can see. And you also have an article called are you sober? And, and I just love that you're using your site to help educate people as a vendor, as a, as a kratom company. Yeah, absolutely. And and I'll address those, I'll compartmentalize them. We'll talk about the are you sober first? So, you know, kratom's been wonderful for me and it's been wonderful for a lot of people. And a lot of people have expressed that has helped them transition away from more harmful substances. The negative stories that I have heard have mostly been from people who did struggle with addiction for many years and had gotten completely clean.

18:18 We're not experiencing problems and then have consume kratom and it it just kind of triggered that edge, you know, and so that that is something to consider, you know, if, if you are sober, if you are living completely clean, we just strongly suggest, you know, do your research, know yourself, do your research. You know, I met a wonderful lady the other day. We were doing a small set up for South by Southwest here in Austin, TX, which if, if you don't know what that is, it's a massive music and arts festival. But this woman was, that was a, oh, a, a dental practitioner, you know, and, and she had struggled for many years, but she does consume kratom and, and she said that it's been wonderful in her life and she did begin consuming it after a period of time.

19:13 I don't know, you know, it wasn't the tool that she used to A to adjust to a cleaner lifestyle, but you know, she's she's very happy with the choice has been a kratom consumer for years. But you know that that is the one group of people, you know, in addition to obviously children and if you're pregnant, probably not. But you know, just just do your research, know yourself. Second one being 7 OH 7 OH is not kratom. 7 OH is not kratom. 7 OH is a metabolite. It is primarily converted in the body. Once a person consumes the kratom plant, some of that metrajenine is metabolized into 7 OH. The seven OH is extremely potent. I read 20 times morphine.

20:07 The number is varied but it is also it is always high multiples. My perspective is. That our body has natural defense mechanisms. So people that are trying to adjust to a healthier lifestyle when they do consume kratom and some of them metrajenine is converted well, your body is equipped with natural defense mechanisms. So when you're overriding those you, you probably don't have the same safety profile, you know, and and the risk maybe maybe quite a bit higher. So at the very least, we, we certainly recommend that the people who are considering 7 OH, do understand that it is very different from kratom. Many of the reasons that people use kratom for seven OH may may have the opposite effect.

21:06 So just something do your research. It is flying off the shelves right now. It is outrageously popular. And you know, my my concern is just that that people think, wow, this is just kratom that works so well. I feel awesome. But yeah. Yeah, yeah, it's really becoming a problem in, you know, I have a a kratom forum called Kratom Real Talk and it's kind of like a Facebook group of private that that I run without the Facebook censorship or the TikTok censorship. We run into I I have a long history in digital marketing and social media and it's like I'm going to just create a platform for us where we can have these conversations and not worry about all of those issues we run into where we're being suppressed just because we're talking about a plant. And I'm noticing more and more, you know, people and on and on my regular social media as well.

22:06 People are just yeah, I tried. I take whole leaf Creighton powder and it works great. But you know, the smoke shops are giving me free samples of this new 7. OH, and and not realizing that technically it's not kratom. The packaging says kratom and I've had a handful of people tell me that they have a hard time stopping it once they start using those products. They're so strong that that is helping with pain issues, but when they try to wean down and go back to their powder is not working as well. And they're actually having to take, you know, a break like several weeks of of not using kratom to kind of get their body readjusted. And it's just, and actually with my live stream series I host as the Kratom gals, we had Doctor Christopher McCurdy on last week chatting with us and he shared, you know, a lot of information about 7 OH for our community.

23:01 And it's just, it's sad that they're being allowed to call it kratom, but it's not technically because of the way they're synthesizing it. My understanding, understanding is they're taking what's already a kratom extract, which is strong and synthesizing it further, like you said, metabolite. And, and now it's like super potent. And I don't know, people are just telling me on social media, Oh, I found this, this kratom, this seven, OH, kratom. And this is great. Yeah. And you know, when we talk about that and people struggling to get off of it, we also have to consider how fast that happened because this has been on the market for less than a year. You know, all kratom products may be habit forming, but in my experience, for it to become a habit takes consistent use for a period of time.

24:01 And Even so, you know, again, in my experience, people, people aren't breaking glass windows to to go get their kratom powder. And I've heard stories of that, you know, of, of shops having their windows smashed. And so it's, it's a different thing. And what the future holds for that, I don't know. You know it, it could very well have incredible potential in in the medical world, but as far as as being an over the counter thing that that you can just walk in and purchase as much as you want, I don't know. We'll see. We'll see how it plays out.

24:43 It's it's certainly been a challenging time for the kratom industry and it's a challenging time for consumers to you know, who, who end up who, who don't really know, You know, most, you know, most of us just kind of go in and, and trust the shop. You know, I, I trust that this is a soda water and it's, you know, that the ingredients are what they say. And, you know, if if somebody, you know, says, hey, we got this great new kratom product and you're like, whoa, yeah, I feel awesome. Yeah, It's a lot of that make you feel awesome that you probably shouldn't. Right, right exactly. Well, I just commend you for having information about 7 OH on your website to help educate people. And I really wish that more kratom companies would do that to just help.

25:35 You know, people will so many times tell me yeah, I heard about kratom in a smoke shop. They pointed to it and I just tried it without even researching it and learning about what they're consuming a lot. I spent like 2 months researching it and trying to fully understand it and went on Facebook groups trying to just because I, I lost access to pain management through no fault of my own. I didn't do anything to get in trouble. The doctors are scared to prescribe and I was always worried that that could happen to me. And then yeah, one day I get a form letter in the mail from the doctor's office, let me know that they weren't going to be prescribing anymore. But they gave me enough to last a little bit of time and I was like, OK, I'll find another doctor.

26:18 No other doctor would take over. So I just went to research mode and in 2019, early 2019, there wasn't nearly as much information as there is now, but there was, you know, a decent amount, a lot of misinformation to propaganda though. But I imagine when you started, which was a lot earlier back, that it was probably not you. I think you said there wasn't very much information back then. Hardly. Anything this is is 1314 when I found it I think was shortly before it had had gone on the FDA drug of concern list. This is years before 2016 when when the ban was supposed to happen and did not happen, thank God.

27:07 But yeah, so so there was very little information and you know, not much positive or negative. A few scare pieces from local media, but beyond that, not much. Yeah. So super grateful for all of the research that has been done over the last 1012 years. Of course, super grateful for Doctor McCurdy, Doctor Jack Henningfield and Laura Volkoff and and that whole crew. Kirsten Doctor Kirsten Smith, especially because she's super cool too. She is cool. They're all cool. But yeah, she's super cool. Yeah, but you know, the very grateful for all of the work that they've done and just it's it's that science and that that has allowed kratom to stay legal.

27:59 And you know, I I hope we'll continue like the AKA says to follow the science and the science on seven O 8 is different than the science on kratom. It just simply is. So you know. Yeah. It really is. And you're really big with advocacy, which I also like applaud you for because, you know, not a whole lot of manufacturers and vendors, you know, I don't see them going to Washington, DC and doing speaking out and going to their state capital. You you do a lot as a kratom, you know, not just as a kratom company, but as a kratom advocate. You know, we were in both in Washington DC Gosh, that was like what a year and a half ago, 2020, That was December 2023, I think.

28:44 But you were also at other, I know there was like another ones. I remember we played it on the Kratom gals and saw you there. I believe it was the DC1 just this past year. Yeah, there was a congressional briefing on kratom in DC this past year. Yeah, a team of us went over to Indonesia. That was really fun because there was about, oh, about 15, 20 of us Americans that that went over and, and talked about, you know, their, their protocol, their export protocol and positive changes that are being made over there and just kind of tweaking it to make sure that it works for everybody. And there's still work to do. But it's just wonderful that now we're making progress. So, yeah, you know, I've been an advocate since day one. We were, I was personally donating a little bit to the AKA before even starting.

29:35 And yeah, you know, I'm, I'm very grateful for for that advocacy and then the groups that are sharing that science and keeping consumer accessibility to this. Absolutely. Well, yeah, I discovered the American Krame Association very early on in my kratom journey, and I was so glad I found out. I just remember finding it online randomly. And so I I signed up for their newsletter, donated some money, and I was like, getting these emails. I'm like, Oh my gosh, I had no idea. There were all these, like, potential bands that were cropping up around the country. You know, I'm thinking, you know, I'm in Texas. I can get access, you know, but reading about all the information they would put out and I remember getting emails like all the time. I'm like, wow, I had no idea that, you know, cuz the whole 2000, even though I did not start till 2019 when I learned about what happened 2016 where they were trying to ban it, I saw the documentary A leap of faith. That's what I, that's how I first learned about kratom was that documentary on Netflix back then. And when it came out and I was like, what there's a plant that can help with pain?

30:45 And then seeing, you know, advocates in DC, that whole segment was like, wow, well, this is wild. I had no, I didn't even know about this part. And then the government wants to try to ban it. But all these people, you know, protested and wrote in and and they changed their mind. I'm like, what? That's amazing. The only. Time that has ever happened to by the way, for for those that aren't familiar, the DEA issued an intent to schedule of kratom. A period of public comment was opened and over 100,000 people signed a petition, sent letters and in an unprecedented event, they rescinded. They rescinded the ban.

31:26 And wasn't it just like a 30 day thing? Like, wasn't it just like in 30 days we're going to? Flooded in from kratom advocates. You know, this saved my life, this saved my husband's life, my daughter's life, etcetera. So yeah, it it was a really cool thing when it when it was like they pulled, it was like, like, yeah, pretty wild man. But yeah, so anyhow, struggle still goes on. Grateful for the states that have passed these creative consumer protection acts and that that many people are looking at that as an alternative to, to banning and it it should be regulated.

32:09 It absolutely should be regulated. You know, people are consuming this and, and many of them consuming it regularly. It's important that there's a system of checks and balances that when you buy something, you know that what you're buying is what you're consuming, that you're able to make an educated decision, that you're able to know that this little shot contains the same amount of active alkaloids as a half pound bag would. You know, So those are those are things people need to know. You know, some of those super potent shots. If you don't know and someone says try Kratom and you've read all like, oh, this isn't, you know, this is benign.

32:51 This is, you know, it's nice, but it's not much. But you take 1 little XXXX shot and you've never had kratom and you're like, Oh, no, that's, that's drugs, man, because drink, you know, it's if you were to drink a bottle, a whole bottle of Jack Daniels worth, you know, as opposed to having a beer or something. But again, it's not like alcohol. For those that don't know, it's. Not right? Exactly. Analogy. You know, when you were saying like, you know, like talking about wanting to get more regulation, you know, so many of us in the community that that is what we want. We want to see more regulation.

33:32 I'm glad here in Texas we have the Credit Consumer Protection Act and it's being adopted in more states around the country, I think is so important. I was just on a news story on NBC talking about my kratom experience. And it really sucks that they show such a small amount. They spent hours with me, OK, hours. And and they didn't really, they didn't show this part, but the correspondent at one point said to me during the interview, like, you know, how do you feel about regulation? And I said, me and my fellow kratom consumers and advocates are all for it. We want to see more regulation. We want to know what we're purchasing is what it says it is. And I remember him going, really, I was not expecting you to say that.

34:17 Like I, I was like, no, we, we, we want, we want regulation because it's not FDA approved. So you don't know. We, although we know now that doesn't always mean anything, but, you know, we want to know what we're consuming. I remember when I first started, you know, hearing about it on, you know, learning about it and then go into a Facebook group and finding like, you know, how to buy some from somebody. And I remember when I first got it, it was like, it is Ziploc was sharpied with the name on it, you know, and it wasn't labeled like what we see today. And that was just 2019. So it wasn't, I mean, six years ago, but that really in the scheme of things wasn't really that long ago. And just to see the progression of how packaging is changed and how laws have come into place and regulations to help with that. I love how packaging like tells you everything as it should. As it absolutely should.

35:10 Yeah. You know, when I got in into kratom at that time, I don't know if it was common by 19, but in 131415, so many of these bags said not for human consumption, which is horrible. I mean, like, you know, that's because because then that means that the company can't tell you anything. Oh, should I consume the whole bag? No, obviously. But yeah. So anyhow, made a lot of progress, still working on progress and yeah, very hopeful for the future. I'm hopeful that. We will. A national kratom Consumer Protection Act passed and and have real regulation on a national level. And I think that if and when we do and those laws are enforced, I think that those who have been staunch anti kratom advocates will see, oh, wow, this, this.

36:05 Yeah, OK, this isn't such a big deal. And I think, you know, if you've you've only read about it, what not the perception of what it is and in the way that it might affect behavior, etcetera, is so different than the reality. You know, people that read these articles and they're like, this sounds terrifying. What's funny is that they probably know 5 to 10 functioning successful people who are creating consumers. But there's no, you know, you're not some different person. You might be in a better mood, but you're not. Altered. Not intoxicated. And if you read about it, you would, you would think that you were.

36:49 So, yeah, I, you know, I, I think that'll also pave the way for more people being open about consuming kratom right now. I think so many kratom consumers don't want to tell people. They don't want to tell their friends and family because they're going to say, oh, I read about that, you know. And so I hope and believe that the regulation will help people have the confidence to say, yeah, this was really helpful for me. I've been a consumer for X number of years, etcetera. So. I, I tell you what would be helpful is when the FDA finally publishes a single dose study report that they've yet to publish that says kratom is safe at all doses. And I, I just can't believe they still have so much misinformation on their website. And everybody always looks at that and say, oh, kratom is bad. Yeah, yeah, that that study, you know, they did up to 12 grams, which we say standard, standard serving is 3 grams. Everybody, everybody is different. But if you know kratom, 12 grams is a massive amount to consume at one time.

37:53 That's. And they had to do it in 5 minutes with there were capsules. All right, at once, not over the course of time. It was. It was 12 grams all at once. And adverse events, nausea. Yeah. Yeah, expected, expected. If you drink 4, you know, 4 cups of coffee in 5 minutes, you're going to be pretty nauseous. You're going to be pretty. Exactly. Yeah, it'll be nice when the FDA finally, if they ever publish that because it it dispels all that misinformation on their website about kratom, you know, But I I love that you're such a big advocate in the community. You also, like myself, have won the Hall of Fame award, American Cream Association.

38:39 Congratulations. Our pictures, we're right next to each other. I mean stay. Probably somewhere, someday. It's so cool because yeah, on the AK as website, we're right next to each other on that. On the website. I'll look that up. That's cool. Yeah, it was nice being, you know, validated and appreciated for, I mean, the people I know that advocate like myself, we don't do it for that. You know, we do it because kratom has helped us so much and we are not afraid to speak out about it and help educate people. We've educated so many people through social media. I've been able to with the podcast and my crane community. My TikTok does really well. Even though we get censored a lot, we get suppressed.

39:21 It doesn't stop me. Like I'm still going to keep advocating because I just feel like it's so important because like you were saying, there are lots of people that are not comfortable doing it. I understand. I totally get it. But I try to tell people like it's important for our message to get out there. It's important for people to hear positive stories. The, the NBC Nightly News story that came out with me, they told me up front they want to do both sides. So they're going to talk to somebody on the other side. And they were impressed with me enough to like, I'll be, you know, the positive side. I'll send you the link to it. But they, they really spun it negatively because it's the typical, oh, this mom's grown son died.

40:03 They mentioned that it. He had other drugs in the system, but they really downplayed it. And it's like, but people like, you know, I post on social media and some people saw, oh, that sounds dangerous. And and they show my about me not nearly as much information, but like how it's helped me at least he showed me making kratom. Like I was so excited. They wanted like, footage of that. And they did put that on this new story of me, you know, pulling down the package and mixing it up and drinking it. It's like, that's pretty cool because we don't see that too often, you know, on, on, on national news. But it still felt like the overall vibe was that kratom is, you know, not safe. And people have died from it.

40:48 And here I am talking about, well, I've been assuming it for six years for my chronic pain. And it works way better than the pharmaceuticals ever did. So I'm going to always be talking about it and trying to help educate. But still with putting that report on my TikTok, some people, you know, commented as kratom consumers, No, we need to not we got to be quiet because they're just going to ban it. If if we're talking about it, we're they're going to ban it. I just can't believe people think like. That no, we're way, way, way, way past that, man. That is that's people are aware of it. It's out there. The negative is very out there. And. Very important for people who are pro kratom to take a stance. I would encourage you, you know, if if you've been insecure about sharing your story with friends and family, I would encourage you to do so.

41:43 Obviously that can be very uncomfortable. Everybody's situation is different. But if, if you don't feel that there's going to be a real negative action from the person, I'd encourage people to share it, you know, and to be transparent and say, Hey, listen, like this, this has helped me, you know, and it has plain and simple. It's helped so many people. And I, I think that that as we move forward with regulation, if in the situation as as you mentioned there, there was, there were multiple drugs in the person system, but if there are medical conditions that set for the people that have those should not consume kratom. Well, we need to know that we need to to have that knowledge so that we can ethically present it so that we can say, no, it's probably not a good choice for you. And right now, when you completely try to squash it, when you completely try to say, you know, that stagnates research that that that prevents us from getting the answers that we desperately need as soon as we possibly can get them. So I would encourage those that that are on the fence about sharing it or speaking up to do so because it's been very helpful for a lot of people, you know, and yeah. It's an amazing plan.

43:09 I, I, when I think back to nine years in pain management, taking all these high-powered opioids. Now, I never had any addiction issues with it. I, I was fine with that part. But you know, it's all you know, right? The doctor prescribes it helps with the pain. It only helped me so much. I have degenerative disc disease in both my neck and back and it is pretty debilitating. And I would get some pain relief. Not great, but it was what it was. It gets some relief. And when I lost access and switched to kratom, I'm like, I did not have high expectations at all. So I'm thinking there's just no way a plant is going to be as effective as pharmaceutical opioids. And I was so pleasantly surprised once I got through the trial and error. I was one of those where I took a little trial and error with the color and the dose, but in, in within a few weeks, once I had it all figured out and what was working best for me, it worked way better than my pain meds ever did.

44:01 And it literally makes my pain level go to a 0, which is just insane. And very few people say that. So many people say, Oh yeah, brings my pain for, for those of us in chronic, you know, chronic pain patients, they'll say, yeah, brings it down to like A5 or 4I rarely find somebody that says it's super low like me, but I take it every six hours and as long as I stay on the schedule, I get amazing relief and I'm thrilled. It's a plant and it's just, you know, but also when you're talking about like the importance of, of crane consumers to speak out and get more comfortable with it. When I first started, I wasn't as comfortable mentioning it to doctors. But over time I got more comfortable.

44:42 And my primary care physician, I've been going to for the last three years. I told her from day one when I started going because I'm more comfortable at that point and she didn't know anything about it, which is what seems to be very common when I talk to anybody in the medical profession. They're like, they don't even know what it is. And I make a point whenever I see her to bring it up. It's something as commonly consumed as it is, is completely unknown and just the gap, the time gap between, you know, the medical profession and the natural world is notable. And I it's, it's a gap that we can close over the coming years. And but anyhow, you're, you're fully transparent. And she's learned, and she she.

45:33 She's learned about that, but she also, because I was going in the beginning, I was going like every six months and we'd always do labs and stuff and everything was always great. And I would always make a point to just remind her that, you know, I consume this because you know, in the my chart at at, she knows all the stuff I used to take. It shows all my medical condition stuff. So she knows, but her experience with me is that my pain relief is through her plant. So in the last year or so when I go see her, she's like, she's really because she's getting to know me more for interactions. She's I think she seemed like, wow, this lady takes a plant, not pharmaceuticals anymore. And every time I see her, she's doing great and her labs are always great. So on a recent visit she said keep doing what you're doing because it works like she was really. And I think if more people got comfortable talking to people, whether it's family members, friends and medical professionals, I think through in our interactions, they will see how much this helps us.

46:34 Yeah, agreed. So I think that's so important. This has been such a great interview with you, Jeremy. I'm so glad we had the time to do this. My last question for you is, knowing everything you know now about kratom, what advice would you give to someone helping them get started in their own journey? Yeah, do your research. Less is more with kratom, you know it does, especially when you're consuming the natural plant. There may be a period of time 15 to up to 45 minutes. Another thing is if you are using it for focus even more less is more because I think all of us that are that are creating consumers for that have learned that lesson that oh, I feel super sharp.

47:22 I'm going to take take some more. Nope, it'll bummer. So yeah, you know, less more know what you're consuming. Make sure to buy from a reputable vendor. I always suggest buy from an AKAGMP vendor. I'm sure there are others, but if you do, you know that their facility has been audited. You have good reason to believe that what it says on the package is what's inside. And it's very important to know, you know, in general about 4434 grams of kratom is going to have about 50 milligrams of metrajenine, which is generally regarded as a serving. So if you are buying an extract product, make sure you know how much metrajenine is in there because it, it could be up to, you know, 25 grams worth, which is 7 plus standard servings kratom.

48:22 So read the label, less is more. Good luck. Drink plenty of water. Yes, lots of our stay hydrated. This is such great advice. And your website is 1836 kratom.com. I'll link to that with this episode as well. Thank you, Jeremy for spending. Time grab something there. There's also 1836 fitness.com that does sell direct on that one. So right, right, right. OK, absolutely. I'll put both links in there. Thank you so much, Jeremy. Appreciate this so much. All right, have a great day.