Ep 74: Stephanie’s Journey: Finding Freedom from Addiction and Pain with Kratom

0:00 The first time that I kind of brought kratom into the picture and showed my family about it. So I actually put the Kratoms in like 1g capsules. So I capsulate themselves myself because it's a little bit cheaper that way. So I'd be sitting there on my bed making capsules and stuff and they're like, what are you doing? You know, that worried curiosity of the parents with the past addiction problem child and I, you know, just sat down with them and I told them everything about it and they were like, oh wow, you know, we're on board with this. You know, whatever is going to help you with, you know, staying clean and you do seem a lot better on this product.

0:41 So it was just kind of that first initial barrier of being like, what are you doing with this weird green powder stuff to just educating them. And now they they see me making my capsules every day and they're like, oh, hey, what's up? Doesn't even bother them anymore. So I'm here with Stephanie who's going to share her Kratom journey. So Stephanie, I love that I've been meeting so many cool people on social media like yourself and that you're eager to come on the podcast and and Share your story about Kratom.

1:23 So welcome to the podcast. Absolutely, I'm happy to be here. So let's start off with you telling us a little bit about yourself and life before kratom. So in my high school years, around 2008, on New Year's Eve, I was at my cousin's house and we went horseback riding and I proceeded to fall off of that horse and broke a piece of my pelvis and I got a grade 3 concussion. So that kind of set me up for lifelong back pain, which I was dealing with. It's gotten progressively worse over the years, as injuries do. But that kind of started my unfortunate journey into, you know, drugs and alcohol kind of stuff. But in the throes of my addiction, I obviously was wanting to stop everything.

2:21 So I was looking into some stuff and I found kratom. So I started looking into it and saw a lot of successful stories, you know, kind of in my same position. So I decided to give it a shot and it actually got me off of opiates the first time without having to go into a facility. My story journey was kind of up and down, unfortunately. Went back to you and got back out of it once again with the kratom and I've been sticking with it since then. It's been on and off for 9 years now and it's the only thing that really, you know, seems to do the trick for the lower back pain. You know, ibuprofen and Advil just don't cut it after a couple of years, right?

3:11 You get so used to it. But the the kratom actually did more than just help with my pain, you know, it helped my mood. It helped with my anxiety. It had a lot of different things that were really beneficial to me. That's awesome. Do you remember what it was about like when you first heard about? Like, do you remember where you heard about kratom? I mean, you know, some people say they just, you know, were at a smoke shop and they saw it there or a friend of a friend. Do you remember like what it was where you first heard about it? I was actually doing some research on like ret subreddits for like help with kicking addiction, stuff like that, and it just kept getting brought up more and more and more. So I decided to do my own research into it and I was like hey, I should give this a shot and I'm glad I did. That's great.

4:01 And and so this has been nine years. So that would have been what 2016 about when you? Yeah, around there. Learned about it and that was back when the DEA was trying to schedule it into a schedule one narcotic where it wouldn't have been available. It would have been banned nationwide. And not only that, with schedule one, they can't research it. Like it could have been like devastating for for so many people. It definitely could have, and I'm glad that that didn't go through. I know in a couple places in the country now, it is getting, you know, banned and scheduled. And it's sad to see, you know, and I can kind of chalk it up to maybe these other products that claim to be kratom, like the seven OHS, like those are causing a lot of issues right now.

4:50 I know for the kratom community and for people who are trying to actually try kratom and they're getting sucked into this. Yeah, it it's a real shame because people that don't really like, like when you were first researching kratom, you're probably just reading information, you're going by what people are saying and, and, and articles you're reading. And these days in 2025, you got kratom leaf powder, you got kratom extracts, you got 7. OH, and they're all different. Yeah. And they act differently, but people just think Kratom is kratom is kratom. Like it's, it's I feel like all I'm doing these days as an advocate is educating, you know, I'm just educating people that there's three different types of kratom.

5:33 And actually seven O 8 is not even I mean really, technically it is. They they shouldn't even be calling it Kratom. It should Malcolm Martin is kratom, but there's just so much confusion. It seems like in 2016 was a simpler time. It was just probably all you saw was leaf powder, right? Yep, and now you've got all of the different strains now coming out. I find that I work best with like a green strain, like for the morning, afternoon. And then I stick with the red strains at night 'cause they're a bit more, I wouldn't say like potent, potent, but they have a lot more relaxation benefits to them.

6:13 But learning about all these different strains, it was coming on a different period. The more I got into it, the more I started to learn about and the more products that became available to people. Yeah. And when, what, what? When you did your research initially, what was it about the research that made you decide to just go for it and try it? Pretty much all of the success stories with drug addiction and people using that to get off of, you know, opiates and stuff, that's what really sold it for me because I was at such a point in my life where I just hated what was going on and just needed to be off of what I was on. But with all the success stories that I was seeing, I was like, yeah, I'll give this a shot.

6:59 That's, that's so great to hear. Now, you know, I come from the chronic pain community, which is, you know, quite a bit different from from those that come from addiction. And I mean, I'll admit, like I didn't really know much about addiction. I wasn't really around people that had issues. But when I lost access to my pain, you know, through pain management, lost access to the meds, Discover Kratom, which was wild that I found it when I did the first Facebook group I found to join because I want, even though I was going to go ahead and try it, I was still doing a lot of research and learning. I found a Facebook group. It was primarily people using Kratom for addiction, to get out of addiction. And at first I'm like, I remember looking at this group going, wow, they're very informative talking all about kratom.

7:45 I think I'm going to learn a lot here. But then when they would talk of stories of addiction, I was like, I don't know much about this, but I, I wanted to learn. And I tell you what, it was very eye opening because for those of us that come from the pain side that don't know a lot. And I know a lot of people in the chronic pain community blame the people with addictions for why we can't get our meds like we used to that, you know, this whole opiate crisis thing. And I know a lot of people do a lot of finger pointing. And I felt like I got a whole education by being in this Facebook group. And I learned about how so many people were sharing, just pouring out their hearts and saying, I don't want to be an addiction.

8:26 I don't want to be doing this. I want to get out of it. And there's this plant that can change that. And then I always loved when people would show before and after photos, and they would show, you know, photos of what they looked like, an addiction photo of how they look like now with kratom. And it was just amazing. And I think more people in the pain community need to see this because I think it's incredibly eye opening to see that so many people that suffer with that are desperately want to stop and, and they're looking for a way to stop and how amazing that a plant can can be so beneficial to people. Yeah, I feel like I kind of came from both sides of the community because I started using the opiates because of the back injury. So it was a way to manage my own chronic pain without having to go through the issues of, like, a doctor and those kind of things.

9:23 But it just kind of spiraled out of control, which unfortunately happens with a lot of people using opiates. They start using it for, you know, pain management, and then it doesn't work, and then you take your different avenues. But mine was primarily being used because of that, so being able to find kratom at that point. So it's going to help with both aspects, right? That was just like a complete lifesaver for me other than having to go deal with more doctors, spine doctors, back doctors, all that stuff, and jumping through the hoops because of the opiate epidemic. So that's why I'm happy that I found this since it is widely available right now for the majority of the country. You know, I want it to stay that way because it is helping so many different communities.

10:15 It it really is. And it's so many people that find immense help with it for such a variety of things, not just for pain, not just from addiction. Great when it when it takes care of everything. Like in your case, because I can't, I mean, you've been suffering with chronic pain since a young age. I mean, that's got to be really tough. I can't even imagine. I mean, I've been suffering with my chronic pain for for a long time, but I, I was a bit older when it started that when all that started. But when I hear about people like being really young and and having to live with chronic pain, I just, I just really feel for y'all. And it's great that you found a pain that just helped helped. I mean, I found a leaf that helps you with everything. It's just phenomenal.

11:00 And did did you find other great uses for it? Because so many people I've talked to on this podcast will say things like, you know, I used it for pain or I use it for addiction or for both. And then they'll say, and I realized I don't crave alcohol anymore. It wasn't like it was front of mine, but they're realizing like I have beer in the fridge that I haven't touched in a month. And I was like, I don't know what, what, what's going on with me? I never do that, you know, just little things like that. Or they'll say, you know, I, I don't feel anxious or I'm don't have any depression that I suffer from from time to time. It's really amazing how this plant just helps so many things. Have you found other things that has helped you with? Yeah, definitely the anxiety and the depression, You know, I was able to come off of one of my medications because it was helping so much in just those aspects, which is, you know, it has multiple uses.

11:50 And I love to hear those other stories, you know, 'cause it helped with my anxiety and my depression as well as my chronic pain, which kind of go hand in hand with each other when you're dealing with chronic pain. But you know, being able to come off of a medication was nice. Oh yeah, I'm sure. I mean, I've had people on here that been on lots of medications and they said use Kratom and I got off. I got off of all these meds. I did too. I mean, mine were minor, you know, for the pain. So I mean, I was on two different opiates. Usually at any given time, it'd be two, two, usually two different. I always had a high, I kept building tolerance with opiates, so I was constantly having to rotate them. Me and my doctor was a constant dance of like, OK, I'm at the I've been at the Max of this particular 1 long enough that it's not working anymore and we'd have to go to a different one.

12:46 And then it was just, oh, I don't have that with Kratom. You know, I have never had a tolerance issue with kratom and I've taken it every day for over six years. I haven't either. I think maybe using the different strains helps because the vendor that I go through, I go through Calf's Botanicals, I'll make sure that I don't buy like the same red strain every single time. So I find that changing out the different not necessarily the types of strains, but like like Malaysia versus like Red Elephant for red kind of things, if I don't stay on the same exact one every time, then I don't find that I build up any type of tolerance issue. That's a really smart strategy.

13:31 So when I was doing my research in the beginning, some people were talking about that like rotating strains and colors are just, you know, and vendors. And I'm like, well, that sounds interesting. And I say, and after coming from years of always having tolerance issues with the meds, I'm like, I don't want to have tolerance issues with this because I was a pain in the butt to deal with. So from the start of my kratom journey, I just would constantly rotate vendors and strains and greens are only ones that work on me. The others don't. So I stick with greens, but I'll do the same thing as you. I'll do different strains of it. And I found that super greens work really well on me. So then I remember in the beginning I was like, oh, these super greens and green elephants work really good.

14:13 So let me try that from other vendors as well. And it was just really interesting to see like what worked best for me. But then what's so interesting is it when people hear your story, they're like, oh, I'm going to go try that too. And you know, I tell me what you're taking and I'll just go by the same. I'm always telling people it affects everybody differently. You might not get the same experience that I get or somebody else, you know, social media saying I have degenerative disc disease. I have the same thing as you. I have degenerative disc disease. So what should I take? I'm like, you won't know until you try. You got to just experiment. Did it take you a while with your experimenting to find that green was best for you? Yeah, I played around with like the straight white strains and I also tried some of the yellow strains, but they were more like gave me more energy than they did with the pain relief. So the greens work really well for me during the day because they kind of balance, you know, that pain relief with, you know, some energy.

15:15 It's not as much as like a white strain, but I also gravitated towards, you know, the red strains for like bedtime because, you know, they have different properties and stuff and the Reds are more chill while you've got your whites and your yellows and your greens for like your daytime kind of activities. But I found that green works best for my lifestyle. Yeah, it's such a the plan effects everybody differently, such an individualized experience from person to person with which color, strain, dose. I mean, dose can take a while to figure out too. It took me a little bit of time to work that out, you know, to figure out like, what's that right amount for you?

15:57 And I find it interesting when people are sharing their stories because I'm always eager to learn, like what kind do you take and how much and how often and what word for me is to stay on the schedule. If I just once I found what worked, if I just take it every, I can go six hours and stay relatively pain free. So it wears off. And then I just with the meds, the opiates, I was having to take them like every three hours. That was really bad. I was a very high processor, You know, they, they went through me very, I even had the, the pharmacogenetic test to to show that like, you know, that that my body, well, I had a really smart pain management doctor. He thought of everything, you know, because it protects him, you know, yeah. And it showed that I processed them quickly and it you know, so because, you know, those doctors get audited and, and that's why they're so scared to prescribe because you know, if you're prescribing high doses, they go after doctors that do that. But then you get somebody like me where the testing shows that I need high doses because they go right through my body so fast.

17:02 I mean, look at one point I did the fentanyl patch and that's normally 72 hour patch, right? The fentanyl patch and the first time I did it, I could barely go 40. I couldn't I couldn't get to 48 hours. I think it's like 42 hours. And yeah, yeah, yeah. And the doctor's like, OK, because we've done that testing and it shows that I process quickly. Like he was able to write the script so I could take it. You know, I just change it out every two days and and take meds for breakthrough in between. And but so quickly I build a tolerance to the lowest fentanyl patch and there's only, I don't know if it's the same now, but back this would have been like 2012. There were three different dose levels. And so we started the lowest very quickly. We had to go the next one.

17:53 And then very quickly after that is like you stopped working. I said, I said, look, I'm too young for us to be going to that highest one because then where do you go from? There. And fentanyl, fentanyl could give you really great pain relief, you know, pharmaceutical fentanyl, but it's a lot stronger than some of the meds. And if like you're already taking the highest, like, yeah, I so I just was like, no, let's just go back to the other meds and we'll figure this out. And, and looking back that that was tough going through all that because it's always something. And for me now, six years, I can use a leaf.

18:34 Exactly. I kind of went through something like that. So I had gastric bypass when I was 18 and from that it caused a malabsorption issue. So and it also made things go through my body incredibly quickly. So they warned people not to like drink a lot afterwards because I could take like a shot of alcohol and be like completely gone, but it would only last 20 minutes. So I found that hard to like keep up with with the drug addiction as well because my body was processing everything so fast that I got up to like such a crazy level of addiction that was not manageable at all.

19:16 But it wasn't as bad as other people's because I absorbed things differently with my body too. So I was fighting up against that too, with everything else. Yeah, well, your story is very interesting. I'm sure there's some people listening that are like, can relate to everything you're saying. And and they're now they're feeling less alone in their journey, which is so awesome. So you started kratom. So you said you started nine years ago, but it's been off and on. So tell us a little bit more about that, like whatever you're comfortable sharing. So the only off and on was when I kind of went back to using which was like. A 3-4 months stent, probably like a year or two after I initially found kratom and then I went right back to it. So since then it's been a consistent thing, like a daily thing.

20:13 But there was just kind of that one time lapse that happened and then I was like, I'm going to go back to what was actually working without all of this happening again. So I've been taking it consistently probably for like a good like 7 years straight now. That's great. Have have your friends and family like seen the difference like before and after with this? Absolutely. The first time that I kind of brought kratom into the picture and showed my family about it. So I actually put the Kratoms in like 1G capsules, so I capsulate themselves myself because it's a little bit cheaper that way. So I'd be sitting there on my bed making capsules of stuff and they're like, what are you doing? You know, that worried curiosity of the parents with the past addiction problem child.

21:08 And I, you know, just sat down with them and I told them everything about it. And they were like, oh wow, you know, we're on board with this. You know, whatever is going to help you with, you know, staying clean. And you do seem a lot better on this product. So it was just kind of that first initial barrier of being like, what are you doing with this weird green powder stuff to just educating them. And now they they see me making my capsules every day and they're like, oh, hey, what's up? Doesn't even bother them anymore. I love that. That is a great story. That is awesome. You know, some people will say, well, my family's not supportive. They think it's a drug.

21:50 They hear negative things in the media about it and then others see how well their loved one is doing and can see that this is a good thing. I mean, that's what I went through as well. You know, my mom was not very thrilled that I was in pain management taking all that to the point that one time because she'd go, she called them drugs. I said, look, I suffer. You know, people that don't understand chronic pain cannot relate. And I just didn't like her attitude about it. So finally, one time I just got so tired of her negativity. I said, look, I'm taking you with me to the appointment to go to the pain management doctor. I want you to see what I go through. You know, you need a better understanding of what this at this.

22:30 And it helped tremendously for her to get a better idea and to see that I was not abusing. It's just to give me quality of life and then yours go by. And then I ended up going home to take care of her. She, you know, towards the end of her life. And so I moved in to take care of her. And that was when I lost my access to the meds. It was my dad had just passed away suddenly. I moved back home and like somebody had to take care of my mom. So I moved in to take care of her. And literally this would have been probably just a few months later, a month or two later is when I, I lost my access. I'm like, Oh my God, Well, I knew my mom would be happy that I wasn't going to be taking opiates anymore. But I found kratom and I remember telling her about it and she she's kind of surprised like a leaf.

23:14 And I was just so impressed and amazed. And so she was really excited my new Kratom journey and my friends and family could see like, like, wow, here she went from taking all these narcotics, even though the narcotics I could, if I didn't tell people they had no idea what I was taking because I didn't go around telling everybody. Only people close to me knew what I was taking. But like, oh, on any given, yeah, on, on a day-to-day basis, it was Oxycontin, Percocet, gabapentin, muscle relaxers, lots of it every day. You cannot I, I, they didn't affect me in any negative way. I could still function. I could drive, I can work, I can do everything. So people had no idea, but those that didn't did know, even though they saw it didn't really affect me negatively still when you know somebody close to you is taking all that.

24:03 But then like instead I'm drinking this tea now and. People. Like blown away. And they can see that I'm doing actually not just as well. I was doing better because I have less pain and it's, it was great getting that support. But sadly, there are plenty of people that say they get no support or or they're afraid to tell their loved ones, you know, which is really sad. It's really hard when that happens. Well, there's so much negative publicity and that doesn't help. Doesn't help at all. Like if people actually took the time to do their research then they would understand a little bit better. Like when I told my dad, he's a big researcher, so he like drove head first into learning all about it. And, you know, he was completely on board. But you have all the negative publicity now and then people lumping in the seven OH stuff with it. And now everybody is thinking these horrible things with all the mislabeled products and everything, that it's like an uphill battle right now trying to get people to understand what it actually is and what it does.

25:11 Absolutely. Because, yeah, you tell your family and loved ones you. I see you used kratom. But now with all the negative publicity in the news and this association with Seven OH, and kratom, I'm sure you've had people say the stuff on the news. Is that what you're taking, what they're talking about? The news that they're going to win? Yeah, my, my grandma and my mom have said that a couple of times and I've had to give them the whole breakdown on everything. But they've seen me use it for years, and they know that half the stuff that people are reporting on just isn't the truth. So they're kind of using their own, you know, eyes and their experience with me to kind of direct how they're feeling. But if they have questions, you know I'm happy to answer them for them.

25:52 It's great that you're, you're such an advocate for the plan and helping to educate those around you. I love that. I think that's awesome. And then, you know, we FDA just came out recently and did the big press conference talking about 7 OH, and how they're recommending the DEA schedule it because there's been no regulation with it. And they even said we're not targeting leaf kratom. So I know that's been a relief for many of us. What were your thoughts when you heard about that? I mean, was that I feel like this is amazing news that, you know, they're targeting the 708. They're leaving. He fed us as they're leaving kratom powder alone. But some people in the community are like, no, they're still going to target us.

26:34 I feel like we're safe. I sure hope we're safe. It sounds like we're safe that they're going to just target those products because I know if they turn around and start to schedule the actual kratom, a lot of people are going to have a really, really hard time because, you know, this was the only product that worked for me, you know, that got me through all of my stuff. I would hate to have to bounce back into something that's way more detrimental than the plant. Well, and for those, you know, you and I that suffer from chronic pain, we have to take something to like, like you were saying earlier, you know that the over the counter stuff, I, I, I before I look, when I went to pain management, I did not do it lightly. I know a lot of people don't go into that lightly because I spent like a year of just trying to deal with my chronic pain with Tylenol.

27:28 And you can only do that for so much. Plus large quantities of Tylenol is bad for you. This isn't, I mean, you can you, you could possibly have to get a liver transplant. I mean, there are people that have to go get their liver transplant because of the amount of acetaminophen they took. So while we think it's safe because it's over the counter, you still can take too much of it and it can be very deadly. And when I got to the point where it wasn't enough anymore and I went to pain management and I fully understand. I, I knew what I was getting into. But when you reach that level with your chronic pain, you kind of like just have to resolve to the fact you're going to have to take something every day to not be in suffering, you know, in suffering and pain.

28:09 So, you know, I totally understood that going in. I'm just, I tell you, 6 years of kratom and I'm still blown away every day. I just drink my little swamp water tea, as I call it. And I just do so much better and I have less pain than than the meds. Yeah. It's wild. It's just horrible. I know. I mean, thank goodness this, this tree from Southeast Asia made its way here so that we can benefit from it. I, I, I just love it. So so you're mentioning some of the other benefits you get from crazy. Sounds like you get a lot out of this leaf. And you know, Doctor Christopher McCurdy, who's one of the leading researchers of kratom, he calls the alkaloids like it works like as a Symphony because there's like over 40 alkaloids and they all work together to do all these amazing things.

29:00 I just, it blows me away like just hearing stories like yours of like, so how much is helping you and all the different things it's helping you with. Oh, yeah. I'm so glad that I found it. Like from just from hearing your own experience with the, you know, the pain management clinics, I've heard horror stories and, you know, I was on the younger side, you know, and unfortunately a lot of pain management clinics don't like to cater to younger people with chronic pain. Yeah, we hear that a lot. You know, it's really sad because you can get suffer from chronic pain at any age. Like I I have the X-rays to prove my hip was broken. Like I know you guys can't feel my pain, but you know I've got the proof that it's there.

29:45 But they're just so reluctant with the younger people. Yeah, and, and and it's, it's a real shame because, you know, no one should have to suffer in pain. Well, tell us about how kratom has impacted your daily life and just your overall well-being. I mean, you work in veterinary care, right? Yep. Yep. I work at an emergency veterinary hospital. I pull 12 hour shifts overnight, but it's so much easier to just, you know, take a couple of capsules in the morning and then on my lunch break, take a couple and then I'm good all the way the whole 12 hours until I get home at night. And then, you know, I'll take my night meds and I'll be completely fine.

30:28 And I mean, I look back on, you know, the past drug addictions and it was like every 3-4 hours during the day and it just ruined my entire day. But it's so much easier now and I have, it does so many great things for me and it's not impacting my life in a horrible way. So I mean it, it gets me through 12 hour shifts at work without having to wear my back brace. Like, it's fantastic. That is amazing Stephanie, that that must be an awesome feeling that you know this plan allows you to do that. It means just like gives you your life back. It definitely gave me my life back like 100%.

31:10 Yeah, I mean, you're definitely a testament to the power of the kratom leaf, for sure. And for those watching the video version of this, you're wearing a neck brace because you recently got into a car accident. Has kratom been helpful with your recovery from that? It has. So they were. They didn't want to give me like any type of pain medication at the hospital, which was a little bit weird, but I found that all I actually needed to do with this accident was take like two more capsules. That was it to my daily doses, Just two extras for my doses throughout the day and I was completely fine, which, you know, they didn't have to put me on an opiate. I'm so happy for that.

31:55 That is amazing. When you so did you did you have to like go to the ER, an ambulance or like what what happened like after the accident? I went to the ER and they did, you know, a chest X-ray, We thought a rib was broken. It wasn't. Thank you. I had to do like CT scans of everything, lots of testing and stuff. But I have to follow up with like a specialist in a couple of weeks for it. But yeah, it just blew my mind how, you know, less is more with this plant. Like I didn't need to start taking a crap to more or anything. It was just a couple. Well, that was so interesting, right, right.

32:37 Well, you know what's interesting with this plant though? And, and again, it goes back to how it affects everyone differently. So you're just able to take two more capsules and, and get through this ordeal you've been through with me. I found that I have a limit of how much powder I can consume and it's 2 teaspoons. I, you know, I mix it up with some hot water, drink it with some juice and if I take more than two teaspoons, it's not going to help my pain anymore. So like 2 that's if I take less than two teaspoons is not going to help. So, but but it's weird because if I have extra, an extra pain day or some kind of flare up, I want to take more, but it's not going to do anything. I'll just take Tylen, extra Tylenol, you know, to supplement my Kratom, but that's it. But I think that's so great that you were just able to increase a little bit more to get that extra relief, but also knowing that less is more.

33:28 So because so I think the problem some people run into with kratom when they overuse it is, is working great. They like it. Let's take more because I'll feel even better, I think. There are only so many receptors in your body though, so if you're taking more of it, there aren't enough receptors for it to use. So you're just taking more, but it's not doing anything. Like I had to play around with my dose for quite a while, but once I figured it out, I kind of knew where my boundaries were. So I knew that I was able to kind of up my dose slightly for after when this happened because I had played around with it so much, which, you know, it takes time to figure out where that sweet spot is. Right.

34:14 Exactly. And how is it helping you from back when you were in your opiate addiction? I mean, does it just make you just not crave to be taking more, more, more? Or like, what can you describe like what the feeling is that kratom does different from back when you were in active addiction? So they work on the same brain receptors. So you only have so many like opiate receptors in your body. In addiction, as you take more of the drug, more receptors appear in your body. So that's why you start to have to take more and more and more of the medication. It's all about them working on the same exact receptors.

34:56 So did it get me high? No. Did it fill up the receptors that were causing all the agonizing pain and side effects from the withdrawals in my body? Yes. So it was kind. It worked kind of like a Band-Aid for the same receptor. The only thing I can really think to compare it to was like when people get suboxone for their withdrawals and it works on the same receptors but it doesn't get you high to that effect. But I know I didn't want to use suboxone because that was just another drug Band-Aid opiate for the opiates I was trying to get off. But it's with from my research I found out it's because it works on the same receptors for everything.

35:41 So it doesn't get you that weird high feeling, but it doesn't make it gets rid of the cravings and you know, the benefit of it giving you actual pain relief without completely turning your brain to mush. Yeah, I mean, it just does it all for you. I love that. What do you what do you think of Like, have you heard that now pain management doctors are trying to put patients on Suboxone instead of regular opiates? Have you heard about this? No, I haven't heard of that. Like I know I know about them using it to get people off of opiates and that it has some pain relief properties, but I thought that that was only used for like certain situations.

36:22 I didn't know that they were using it strictly for pain control options. We're starting to hear that more and more through the pain community. I mean, I still keep up with the pain community on on TikTok and I see them talking about from time to time that doctors want to just put people put everybody on Suboxone for everything now. Weird, I have not heard that at all. Well, a lot of people have used kratom to get off of Suboxone. It's interesting how some people do the opposite. They overuse kratom, they end up abusing it, whether it's the seven O the extracts or just really a whole lot of powder. And I cannot imagine how somebody can take a ton of powder. I mean, people have talked about taking 50 to 75 grams a day. How on earth, how on earth can you consume kratom powder? You would throw up before you know it would do anything to hurt you.

37:14 So I just don't I can't imagine not throwing it up. You know, how could you just keep taking more and more and more? But what some places are doing some of these addiction centers now is they're taking people who are addicted to kratom and put them on Suboxone. How does? That I don't know. I don't that doesn't really make sense. I mean it, I guess it has to do with the receptors and how they work with those class of drugs. But I've never Suboxone's like the worst thing to withdraw from other than like methadone from what I know. Like I don't know why you would. Want to talk with suboxone withdrawal.

37:55 I think out of everything is the worst stories you hear is people trying to go off with suboxone. That seems to be the hardest one and there's been so many. Yeah, exactly, exactly. So they can't get down what so many people have told me they they have a hard time getting down low enough so they could stop it to go start kratom if they want to get off of that and start kratom instead of using Suboxone. But it. Yeah, it's that that is such a long acting that they just can't get to that place and it's. So weird. It is weird. That's why I'm just so grateful for this plan because I don't have to deal with all that anymore. I can't imagine going to my pain management doctor and all of a sudden they're saying we're going to change your prescription and put you on this other one.

38:40 It's called Suboxone. And like with the Suboxone, you have to be off of certain pain medications for like over 24 hours or it throws you into this horrific withdrawal. So even if you're trying to switch somebody to the Suboxone, they're going to have to go through a stage of withdrawal before they can even try it. So that, that it's a little confusing to me because it if you, if they try to give you Suboxone like the day you're coming off of opiates, you will go into hard withdrawal and it will be so much worse. Oh, that's scary. I mean, I'm just going by stories I've seen people talk about on social media, which wouldn't surprise me because it seems like Sabacha, like, you know, for a long time it's been doctors writing scripts for gabapentin, all of them. And it seems like there's must be some kind of kickback they get, you know, because they write like even when I was in pain management, they gave me tons of of gabapentin. I don't think it did anything, but they just kept up in the dose.

39:41 I mean, I was taking 2700 milligrams a day, which is insane on top of all the other meds. Looking back, that was that was like a lot of those. Gabapentin is the first thing that they threw at me in rehab. Actually they had me up to like 1200 milligrams three times a day and I'm like what is going on with? This. Yeah, it was a very free. Yeah. But now it seems like Suboxone is the one that's so freely prescribed. You know, I don't know. I don't know if it's just like the amount of money they make by writing these scripts. It's just, it's just an odd thing. Like why is it always just a focus of one particular drug that they just really prescribe to everybody?

40:26 And you know, that's a big part of the problem. I mean, treat the patient, treat their pain, treat their issues instead of this generic one. All drug for everything that's not necessarily right for everybody. Again, again, it goes back to why we love our plant Kratom. You know, it's like it does everything and more, you know, and it's natural, you know, comes from a leaf and it's not crazy expensive and easily accessible unless you live in a state that banned it due to basically misinformation propaganda, which is so infuriating. Like Louisiana just banned it and made it schedule one, which is it's just ridiculous. But their legislator said that there was like something with kratom and seven O waste and they said kratom is what they said was it is they said all kratom. It was either they said it's all synthetic or not synthetic. I can't I don't remember which way they said it. One of those ways, which was let's see, I think they I don't know because what they said contradicts what the FDA just came out with in their press conference a few weeks ago. Because they're talking about how you have synthetic seven O 8 and you got kratom leaf, which is natural. You would think that they could take this information from higher up in the government and go to the state of Louisiana and say, hey, y'all need to fix this man. I think this ban y'all did because it's not correct. Y'all were not preaching correct

41:58 information on the record. You know, it was like opposite of what they were saying. And this is like a wake up call to all of us consumers like our government at the IT can be at your city level, your state level, and then all the way up to the top that, you know, they're making all these decisions for us. We got to speak up and speak out so that they hear from us, the constituents and the people where these affect them. And I think in Louisiana, I think a lot of people just didn't know that this has has been going on. Yeah, I didn't even know that it was even up on the chopping block for Louisiana until I found out that they had, you know, scheduled it.

42:38 And until they. 'D already done it, I had no idea. That seems to be common. You know, one of the things I was really grateful for in my research early on with kratom, as I discovered the American Kratom Association, which is a lobbying group for US kratom consumers. And so early on, I joined their e-mail list. So I always get their emails and they're the ones that keep up with all the legal stuff around the country. So that was a way for me to always be aware of like what's going on everywhere. And they let you know so that you can voice your opinion when needed and, and just know what's happening. And I think we need more people knowing about that group and, and groups like it because how else are we supposed to know?

43:23 I mean, who thinks to go pay attention to your state government? The not, you know, the federal government, just, you know, we just assume kratom will be safe. Yeah, I wasn't even aware about that. Well, I think there doesn't just need to be more education among the community, you know, to know that those kind of groups are out there because a lot of people, you know, they're getting them from like smoke shops and stuff like that. And they don't realize that there's like a bigger group behind it that can give them all of this information and send them to reputable, you know, manufacturers. But, you know, I didn't know that there was like a, a group out there keeping up on legislative stuff.

44:06 I'm going to have to go subscribe to their newsletter or something. I'll put the link in the show notes for this episode. But yes, American kratom.org, they're the ones that stay on top of everything. They work so hard to do it. And I, you know, I've been connected with them for years. I love the work they do. I've donated to them in the past. You don't have to donate. They do take donations through the community, but it's just a great way to stay on top of what's happening around us. But it's just important for us to speak up because people need to. I always say like, we got to normalize this plan. Like too many people are scared to talk about it. And if that keeps happening, then we're going to see more of like what happened Louisiana, where, you know, the people in charge are going to set laws that we don't agree with.

44:52 And and if we don't pay attention, you can wake up one day and you no longer connects us to kratom. Yeah. And yeah, I feel for the people in Louisiana because I feel like that happened to a lot of them. Yeah, well they estimated like 300,000 kratom consumers in Louisiana, so I'm sure right now a lot of them are real because it would affect August 1st. I'm sure plenty of people are going to their smoke shop to go stock up on more kratom only to find out that not only you can't buy it there anymore, but they schedule it a schedule 1. So that and the way they did this long is crazy. If you have more than 20 grams and 20 grams is not that much kratom.

45:34 If you have more than 20 grams and you're caught with more than 20 grams, you could go to prison. Yeah. I mean, it's it's not just banned, it's criminalized as well. So because they're treating it as schedule 1. So schedule one puts it with heroin, fentanyl. And if you if you have more than 20 grams, they're just looking at you like a trafficker. That is ridiculous. That really is. Yeah, so people have got to advocate for this plan. Any, any consumers out there watching or listening to this, we got to speak up because this could happen anywhere. I live in Texas, and Texas tried to ban it earlier this year. They tried to do the same thing as Louisiana. They wanted to ban and criminalize it. Make a schedule one.

46:17 We're all making calls. We're doing everything we can. Luckily it kind of died in one of the House committees, but it's but they could start back up in two years. So I'm just trying to get more Texas consumers like myself to like let's spend these next two years making calls and doing everything we can. Go to Austin if we have to and go to the state capitol and go go talk to legislators in person. It makes a difference. It makes a difference telling our story. Because even if it's just brought up once in the Legislature, you know it's hiding under there. Somebody's going to bring it back up if you don't keep talking about the benefits of it and everything.

47:00 They absolutely do. They, they always do. I mean, because I've been staying on top of the advocacy stuff for years now and I've gotten involved in American Crime Association. I've been to Washington, DC twice on Capitol Hill with things that they put together there, You know, just going on my own because like I just, I'm just so passionate about this because it's been so life changing for me. And I want other people to know about it and I want to tell my story and help other people tell their story. And then the last time I went was back in April and it was pretty amazing going with some different kratom lobbyists, some kratom industry people and then consumers like myself and just going to different offices on Capitol Hill and talking to the people. And they're going to listen the most to you, the consumer.

47:43 And in in our groups, in my group, I was the only consumer. So, you know, you got the lobbyists, you got, you got the industry people and they got me as a consumer. And every time you know, I spoke, they're passionately listening because they're hearing a first hand account of somebody who spent years in pain management taking opiates, who gets lost access because of the government policies and found a plant and how and sharing like, how much does this help? And I don't suffer like I used to. And then every time I spoke, I pull out my because I always had my I had my backpack with me. I'm like, I'm always going to Kratom on me. When you have chronic pain, you're not going anywhere without it. So I pull out the bag and show them and I'd open it up.

48:25 I said, see, it's a powder. And they took such interest. And we need more stories like that out there to these legislators that make decisions for us. So you can see that is it's not scary, it's not harmful. The science, the science shows that it's safe. The FDA, I don't know if you know that the FDA who's always badmouth kratom until now, you know, they're saying this finally saying leaf is OK. They did a single dose study of kratom. They did capsules as a single, a single single dose study up to 12 grams. 12 grams at once is a lot. They had people take 1212 grams of capsules in a 5 minute period and the FDA was sure people were going to die. And the worst that happened was a few people got nauseous. Well, you know, if you feed me 12 grams of capsules in 5 minutes, I'm going to be nauseous too, because that's a lot of capsule shells to be interesting in a short period of time.

49:27 So they know it's safe. They just haven't like published it on their website yet. They've talked about it. They've they've mentioned it in, in different kratom symposiums, but they've yet to like make it official. So we know that we know it's safe. The science shows that it's safe. It's so weird that, you know, once people know about that evidence, you know, then that's great. But I feel like a lot of the, you know, you going and talking to these legislators is like great, because they don't have that perspective of like the actual consumers And with, you know, that study, you know, maybe if more of them knew about the study, then we wouldn't be having it on the chopping block everywhere. Yeah, exactly.

50:10 We just need more fellow kratom everyday Krame consumers to just speak up and and help spread the awareness because I think that's what will help keep it safe. And so, yeah, this has been such a great conversation. Stephanie, I'm so glad you came on the podcast. I always like to end with the final question being, knowing everything you know now and you know you've been using kratom a long time, what advice would you give to someone to help them get started in their own journey? Definitely research the manufacturers. I don't really recommend going to head shops for it because you never really know what's in those kratom packages, but look into like good manufacturers. You know, there's a bunch online, You know, I mentioned I go to cast Botanicals, I've done organic Kratom USA. Those are the two manufacturers that I found that I like the most.

51:03 But if you're going to try it, definitely don't try the head shop stuff first because you don't know what's in it. Definitely go to somebody who lets you know exactly what's in it. Yeah, you want to make sure it's, you know, lab tested, third party lab tested. If you have a good, reputable vendor, they're going to do that. Yeah, that's excellent advice. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story with us today. Yeah, not a problem. Happy to do so.