Ep 60: Finding Freedom: Mary's Battle with Addiction, Chronic Pain, and Cancer

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Before we dive into today's
episode, I want to let you know

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about Kratom Real Talk.
It's a new community for

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positive, uplifting discussions
about the power of whole leaf

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kratom.
If you'd like to be part of the

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conversation and learn more
about this plate or contribute

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your knowledge, go to
kratomrealtalk.com.

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So I'm here with Mary, somebody
I met through our Kratom Real

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Talk community, and I am so
excited, Mary, to have you here

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with us today to share your
kratom story.

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So tell everybody a little bit
about yourself and life before

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kratom.
Well, my love affair with

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opiates began in 2006.
I had My mother had arthritic

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knees and she always had
Vicodin.

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This is when back in the day,
they would prescribe 100 Vicodin

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for you, the 10 milligram, you
know, every couple of weeks.

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Doctors were just throwing the
opiates out.

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So I learned from the very first
pill that, oh, this is how I'm

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supposed to feel.
Finally had sort of relief from

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the social anxiety that the
stresses that, you know,

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everything.
And so I developed a using

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Vicodin or Norco as a crutch.
Yeah, in 2006, anything from a

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menstrual cramp to a bad day at
work, one of those little

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suckers would just make me feel
like everything was going to be

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OK again.
Well, Fast forward, I don't know

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how much of my history you want
to know, but I was in the same

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profession for 30 years.
It was a very, very high

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functioning alcoholic only would
drink at night then because I

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knew the next morning I could
take a Vicodin or two and I

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could get through the day.
I would be fine and then I'd

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drink again at night.
So I was one of these people

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that were look appeared to be
very successful by day.

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By night I was a train wreck.
I was taking Xanax for every

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emotion.
I was drinking at night.

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I was smoking cigarettes, I was
taking opiates.

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I had undiagnosed severe sleep
apnea so in 2014 I technically

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died one night and the the man I
was sleeping next to revived me.

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I had stopped breathing because
I had taken my usual cocktails.

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Ambien, methadone because I
didn't have any vicodins.

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My friend gave me methadone,
which accumulates in your system

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and can get very dangerous very
fast, especially when you're

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combining it with alcohol or any
other respiratory suppressors

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like benzos, Xanax.
So I took all of those, He

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revived me, and then I made a
huge life decision the very next

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day that I needed to change or I
was going to die.

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I quit my job.
I got my life together for about

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a year.
I'd used all my 4O1K to

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facilitate this new career that
I started back in 2016.

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I took a year off to completely
get fit, get my life together.

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I stopped the benzos, stopped
the stopped the opiates, stopped

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that.
I was still maintaining booze a

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little bit, but it wasn't as
much.

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I was drinking like a normal
person at this point, socially

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drinking because my job was
very, very active with this job,

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it ended up wearing down the
cartilage in both of my knees.

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So I knew that I had the
arthritis, but the the

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physicality of this job more the
rest of the cartilage down.

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Soon I was in agony couldn't do
my job function without some

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kind of a, you know, pain
relief.

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Got back to the Vicodin went and
finally my knees just wouldn't

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work at all.
I collapsed on the street,

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couldn't walk.
It was they were done.

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So I had my knee replaced
January of 2023.

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Well, I was given ox, the
granddaddy of all opiates, the

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Holy Grail, if you will, right.
So I get my knee done, I'm

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recovering from my knee.
As I'm recovering I look down

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and I see a golf ball sized lump
that quickly within weeks turns

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into half a softball size.
Find out it's a sarcoma, a soft

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tissue sarcoma.
So after the knee recovery, they

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cut out this sarcoma and I'm
recovering from that.

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They're still giving me oxy
because of the operations, the

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sarcoma now I've got to have
radiation.

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So I'm doing radiation daily for
I think it was 30 days.

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I didn't.
And my leg is it was pretty

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cooked.
The pain was intense and was

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peeling.
It was bleeding, it just it was

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bad.
So can Tim you on with the

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beloved oxy?
We get to the point where the

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doctor says, OK, you know,
you've had enough.

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It's time.
We need to slow this down.

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We need to cut this off.
So they cut me off of the oxy.

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I'm having that gut wrenching
turning just the way if

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anybody's ever withdrawn from
opiates, once you get past the

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physical withdrawal where you're
you passed, where you feel like

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your bones are coming through
your skin, then you have that

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just it's Misty describes it as
an itch that can't be scratched.

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It's just the way it is when
you're an opiate addict.

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There's just something missing
from your life, something that

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you need.
Nothing is quite satisfying

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until you have your precious
little pill that makes

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everything right again.
So I scrolling TikTok, I had

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heard about kratom and so I went
down to the local smoke shop and

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got, I think they were called
train wreck.

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It was little capsules and I
took four or five of them as

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recommended and half an hour
later, often I nothing hurt, no

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eggs, that pit of gnawing need
in my stomach gone.

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All of a sudden I didn't the
opiates were not foremost on my

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mind.
The pain was gone.

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I wasn't obsessed.
I was felt like a normal person

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again.
I couldn't believe it.

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And I thought, you know, and
still being in that addict

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Phase, I thought, well, gosh, if
four or five are this wonderful,

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what would happen if I took 10?
You learn very quickly that you

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can't because your eyes will
wobble and then you spew your

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guts out.
So you learn.

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In fact, I'd watch it started
watching you on TikTok and

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Kratom cows.
And you'd said with this plant,

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less is more.
So then what I did was I backed

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way I'd gotten powdered at this
juncture.

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I thought, well, you know,
powder is probably better than

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the capsules because I was
running through capsules and I

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started, I'd made tea and I used
to make it in hot chocolate, but

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it just, you couldn't disguise
that bitterness.

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And somebody on to, I don't know
if it was you or somebody taught

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me to take the gulp of water,
throw the the powdered Kratom

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back and then another gulp of
water and then you don't even

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taste it.
So I just, I got very good at

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that.
But now instead of capsules

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several times a day, now it's
just the kratom once in the

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morning and it's about a
teaspoon.

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And then once about 2:00 PM when
it started pouring off.

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So 6:00 AM and 2:00 PMI would
take my second dose at 2:00 PM

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and then that would get me
through the rest of the day.

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I'd stopped Ambien, I'd stopped
Xanax, stopped all that.

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If I needed to sleep, I go for
gummies, not the the CBD, but

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the whole, the full spectrum,
the CBD.

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I think it's CBN and THC.
So it's a 3 combo for sleep.

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So I was doing that.
I wasn't doing the Ambien

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anymore just and so I go, I'm
doing that for a while.

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I'm happy with the Kratom and
it's given me all the pain

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relief from the radiation on my
leg from my still healing

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surgeries.
My left knee was just, it's a

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tight mess of scar tissue and
all of that.

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So now I think, well, my right
knee is still bad.

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That's why I'm still using the
bait kratom, which is now for

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pain.
It's time to get my right knee

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replaced.
So I told my doctor about, you

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know, I'm not taking oxy, I'm
not taking any opiates, I'm

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taking kratom.
And of course he want kratom,

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Kratom.
He wants to know all about this

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magical thing, has no idea about
it.

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Even the anesthesiologist came
in and wanted to know all about

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it.
So I'm giving these doctors a

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lesson.
I love it.

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You know, on this on my kratom
journey.

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And so they researched it and
they, they found what they

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needed to know.
And at this time I was taking

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less than 5 grams per day.
And they said really it

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shouldn't hurt taking 5g or less
per day should not interfere in

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any way with the anesthesia for
your surgery.

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So he said, but I would like you
to just stop the day before your

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knee replacement so that it just
in case it interferes.

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And then I want you to take oxy
again while you're in recovery

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from the knee.
So, you know, OK, if you insist,

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I'll take it again.
Old ways die very hard.

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And so had my knee done.
Got the oxy again.

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Fast forward two weeks after my
knee replacement, I looked down

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at my left knee.
The sarcoma has come back.

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I know.
I tell my doctor, they do the

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full scan.
It's now in my knee and my lung.

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So they decide, OK, we'll remove
the one from your knee, but

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we're going to need you to do
chemo to get the address the

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sarcoma in your lung.
So then and the doctor says that

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well, I'm sorry, I need to
backtrack again.

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After a reasonable time with the
oxy, I started back on kratom

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for my knee replacement and now
the surgery for my left knee to

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get out the sarcoma.
So I'm off the oxy.

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It was on oxy very short time.
I don't even think I got a

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refill.
I went straight back to kratom

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because of the fact that the oxy
messes with your intestines so

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badly.
And it not only does it, you

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know, not only does it slow down
your digestion, but if you end

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up going a few days and have to
go to the bathroom after being

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constipated, it is a nightmare.
And.

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Been through a.
Nightmare.

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Yeah, and that, not to be
graphic, but that caused issues

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that lasted a year.
And I was very glad to be having

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kratom because kratom seems to
help my digestion.

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I also suffer from Crohn's
disease time to time time, and

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it's helpful because it moves
things through.

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I do drink a lot of water, but I
feel like my digestion health

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has gotten much, much better
than it ever has in my life.

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And I have to credit kratom for
that.

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And I know a lot of people have
said with Crohn's disease and

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things, it is very helpful,
helpful for the intestines.

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And so then I, you know, I find
out.

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So I'm back on the kratom and
then I find out from my doctor,

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OK, we need to do chemotherapy
to we want to address the tumors

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with the tumors in your lungs
with the chemo to see what the

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chemo does, what effect it has
on the tumors.

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So essentially I'm a Guinea pig
for this chemo.

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Turns out that it's AIM chemo,
which is the most brutal chemo

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that you can have.
It's very, very hard on your

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heart.
It's very hard on your bladder.

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It's not a nice chemo to have.
And so the doctor said, look, we

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don't know what the interactions
with kratom and chemo are going

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to be because of this gnarly
chemo.

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I want you to stop the kratom
usage while you're doing

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chemotherapy.
And I said, OK, that's fair.

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So then I've now I've gotten the
golden ticket.

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I, he's prescribing me 100 oxys
a week.

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That's a lot of oxy, a lot of
oxy, right?

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And I'm on a regular schedule.
I have to say that at this time

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also, I had started when I was
in the throes of chemo and very,

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very, very uncomfortable from
the chemotherapy.

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Oxy can just take the edge off.
It doesn't do anything for your

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psychological well-being, your
emotional and just your overall

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anxiety and and trauma of the
chemo.

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Losing your hair is extremely
traumatic.

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It's terrible.
I, you know, my hair is down

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past my bra strap, you know, a
blonde and it just, it itched

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off my head one day.
That's how brutal the chemo was.

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So I had started taking 100
milligram THC capsules and I got

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it definitely THC and chemo are
meant to go hand in hand.

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I had so much relief from the
THC capsules.

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Not only would it sort of still
my mind, my body, I could rest,

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I could eat, whereas before I
couldn't think of eating.

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I couldn't drink water.
I just, you know, I could drink

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sort of fizzy water and that was
about it.

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It allowed me to eat, it allowed
me to rest.

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00:14:53,880 --> 00:14:56,440
It'll, it was just life
changing.

221
00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:59,840
I don't know how people go
through chemo without marijuana.

222
00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:03,760
It just, it's, it's off.
It's incredible.

223
00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:08,320
So anyway, I go to, I have the
chemo for three months.

224
00:15:08,640 --> 00:15:11,800
This was last summer and then
it's September.

225
00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:15,160
They do my scan after I've gone
through three rounds of chemo.

226
00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,960
I cannot do the last three
rounds until they do the scan

227
00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:21,840
and check to see if it's had any
effect.

228
00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:25,120
They do the scan.
It's had no effect on the tumors

229
00:15:25,120 --> 00:15:27,800
in my lungs at all.
They've removed the one from my

230
00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:30,360
knee.
They cleared all the margins, so

231
00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:32,400
now the cancer is only in my
lung.

232
00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:38,800
So in September they do a
surgery to resect a wedge of

233
00:15:38,800 --> 00:15:40,680
lung and they got all the
tumors.

234
00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:44,160
And I knew waking up from
surgery that I was cancer free

235
00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,920
because I can feel it.
I felt it.

236
00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:51,040
I wasn't, I would not be able to
carry in a bag of groceries

237
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:55,840
without sitting down to feeling
normal again, feeling like

238
00:15:55,840 --> 00:15:57,480
myself.
It was like I it was.

239
00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,520
I knew the cancer was gone from
my body even before I had

240
00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:04,000
recovered from that.
So I emailed my doctor in

241
00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,440
October and I said, OK, you know
what's going on?

242
00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,960
Do I still have cancer?
I feel pretty great.

243
00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,320
And he confirmed that I was 100%
cancer free.

244
00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:19,560
So that day I stopped the oxy
and I went back to went back to

245
00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:22,120
the kratom.
The you know, I still have the

246
00:16:22,520 --> 00:16:26,240
open incision wounds and
everything in my leg is still

247
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:29,520
exist, still healing.
And I had forgotten to mention I

248
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:33,320
got Cellulitis infection in my
leg, a skin infection from the

249
00:16:33,320 --> 00:16:36,360
radiation.
And so I still had this, this

250
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:38,440
horribly painful infection going
on.

251
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:41,800
And as soon as you told me I was
cancer free and was not going to

252
00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:44,280
have to do chemotherapy, I
stopped the oxy.

253
00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,640
I went right back to the cratum
at six O clock in the morning

254
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:51,680
and then two in the afternoon.
And it was just the immense

255
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,040
relief that I got both
emotionally and not having to

256
00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,680
take the oxy.
My body immediately felt better.

257
00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:03,680
My digestion issues improved
dramatically and I just, I felt

258
00:17:03,680 --> 00:17:07,079
like I was more in control.
I just, you know, I got better

259
00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:10,359
pain relief, which is absolutely
amazing.

260
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:16,400
And so now I have gotten it down
to it's about a half a small

261
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:19,720
teaspoon at 6:00 in the morning
and I'm not even taking my

262
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:21,599
afternoon dose anymore.
Because I'm.

263
00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:25,839
Not in pain.
So it just, it's amazing.

264
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:29,440
Your story is incredible.
It's.

265
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,240
Incredible the.
Old me would.

266
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,680
Have milked that oxy
prescription for and you know,

267
00:17:35,680 --> 00:17:39,320
once you get cancer, you've
you're now you've gotten the

268
00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:42,000
golden ticket for as many
opiates as you want the rest of

269
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,240
your life.
And I didn't go back to it and

270
00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:49,960
it just it says so much for this
wonderful plant During my whole

271
00:17:49,960 --> 00:17:52,880
journey, I've completely changed
my life around.

272
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,240
I don't smoke cigarettes.
I don't I'm 15 months alcohol

273
00:17:56,240 --> 00:17:58,840
free and TikTok helped a lot
with that.

274
00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:03,000
I follow a lot of sober tik
tokers and that have helped me.

275
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:08,280
I don't attend AAI don't
necessarily believe in rehashing

276
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:12,120
12 steps and all of that.
I, I believe you, go forward in

277
00:18:12,120 --> 00:18:16,680
life and so now it is just, I
use the crate and half a

278
00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:21,000
teaspoon in the morning and
occasionally marijuana because I

279
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,200
like it, but I don't have to use
anything anymore.

280
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,760
And that just to me, it's a
miracle.

281
00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:29,600
It really is.
That's got to be an amazing

282
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,680
feeling to like you don't feel
like you have to take any of

283
00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:35,240
these things anymore.
Yes, yes, you know.

284
00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:38,960
Doxy the the benzos, all the
other things and that you're

285
00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,920
just doing everything naturally.
Kratom, you're talking about the

286
00:18:41,920 --> 00:18:43,840
CBN.
I've been I've been and your

287
00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,520
THC.
I've been using CBN in the

288
00:18:46,520 --> 00:18:48,840
evening and I really like it a
lot.

289
00:18:48,840 --> 00:18:51,120
Right, right.
Gummies, which I never even

290
00:18:51,120 --> 00:18:55,320
heard of right until recently.
So right, plant medicine is

291
00:18:55,320 --> 00:18:57,000
amazing.
Yes.

292
00:18:57,360 --> 00:19:01,200
But The thing is, big Pharma,
they're not, the doctors are not

293
00:19:01,200 --> 00:19:03,080
going to make a cent off of
this, right?

294
00:19:03,440 --> 00:19:07,640
You know, and it's, I found it
extremely creepy that they made

295
00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,880
me do the chemo before they did
the operation where they could

296
00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:15,840
have just taken the lung section
out and avoided all the chemo.

297
00:19:16,160 --> 00:19:19,760
But where's the money in that?
The infusion shots that I was

298
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,800
giving myself once a day to sort
of build back my bone marrow,

299
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,760
those were the, my Kaiser
insurance covered it.

300
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:30,160
But that's $2000 a week for just
the shots.

301
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,800
Wow.
So what do you think?

302
00:19:32,280 --> 00:19:35,160
Are they trying to make money on
the chemo and everything that

303
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:37,840
goes along with it?
Of course, of course.

304
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:39,920
It's big business.
Yeah, I don't think.

305
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,960
People realize, I mean, when I
was in pain management, looking

306
00:19:42,960 --> 00:19:45,720
back while I was in it, I didn't
realize what was happening, but

307
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:46,560
I had so.
Many.

308
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:47,840
And they treat you like a creep,
huh?

309
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,240
Right.
I had so many epidural steroid

310
00:19:50,240 --> 00:19:53,160
injections.
I had radiofrequency ablations.

311
00:19:53,160 --> 00:19:55,480
They make a ton of money on
those procedures.

312
00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,480
Insurance covered most of it.
I remember I still had like a

313
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,040
cope.
I had to pay like a percent each

314
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,440
time.
I end up doing a total of 12

315
00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:05,120
between epidural steroid
injections and radiofrequency

316
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,520
ablations on my neck and back
over the years.

317
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,480
And it's like, and of course you
go to the surgical center to

318
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,320
have it and they disclose that
the doctor is.

319
00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:16,320
Owner of the surgical center,
you know, I just didn't put two

320
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,520
and two together for a really
long time and it's like they

321
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,560
keep you in this cycle because
that's how they make money.

322
00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,680
But.
Your story's incredible.

323
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:26,680
I have so many questions.
I don't even know where to

324
00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,680
begin.
Let me, I want to start with,

325
00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:32,320
you were this last time with the
cancer treatment and you know

326
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,280
you're going through chemo and
all the things and then you were

327
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,880
back on the oxy this last time
when you went back to kratom,

328
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:44,400
how long were you taking the oxy
this last time around?

329
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,160
And to just switch like
immediately go right back to the

330
00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:49,280
kratom?
Was it just months or a year or

331
00:20:49,280 --> 00:20:52,000
how?
No, I started, I started

332
00:20:52,120 --> 00:20:57,360
chemotherapy July 11th, lost all
my hair July 22nd.

333
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:02,200
And these the chemo sessions
were four days, 9 hours in the

334
00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:05,960
hospital with infusion and then
I wore a pump at home and it

335
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:08,800
would continue overnight and
into that.

336
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:12,760
So it was a total of four days.
I did that from January 11th

337
00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:16,240
until mid-september, I want to
say.

338
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,640
And then I had the lung
recession surgery.

339
00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:21,920
I had COVID in the middle in
September, you know, so that

340
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:24,280
delayed it a little bit.
Wow.

341
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:30,800
I had the lung recession surgery
on on September 29th and then I

342
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:36,160
healed from that and then
October, it was October 30th is

343
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,960
when my doctor said no more, I
don't need chemo.

344
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,080
I'm cancer free.
I stopped oxy that day and I

345
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,400
went right back to chemo.
So I was on oxy.

346
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:50,080
I mean right back to creative.
I was so from July until

347
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:54,760
October, I was doing the oxy and
the very I stopped it the day

348
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:58,400
and then the very next day when
I woke up with all the feels and

349
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,800
the you know, that horrible.
To.

350
00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:02,880
You know.
Oh, yeah.

351
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,960
Oh, yeah.
I took my little teaspoon and it

352
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,200
was all better.
So all better.

353
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,720
You have such an interesting
perspective that I think our

354
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:12,840
listeners are going to learn so
much from.

355
00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:18,440
So when you the first time went
from kratom back to oxy, you

356
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,480
know, a while back, what was it
like?

357
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,480
You've been through withdrawals
of opiates.

358
00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:25,880
You know you've had that
experience.

359
00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,600
You know what it's like.
What was it like when you stop

360
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:32,240
the kratom per the doctor's
suggestion and just go to the

361
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:33,840
oxy?
Did you feel like you had any

362
00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,640
kind of withdrawals when you
stop kratom?

363
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:40,680
None, none, none.
The only thing that I miss like

364
00:22:40,680 --> 00:22:42,880
since I take the oxy, I sort of
have a routine.

365
00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,160
I'd set up my coffee to start
brewing.

366
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:47,720
I take the kratom and then
everything's fight.

367
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,640
Well, sometimes I get busy in
the morning and don't take that

368
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:55,040
kratom and then like 9:00, I'm
like, I don't have as much

369
00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:57,200
energy as I should.
I don't have that sort of

370
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:01,040
euphoric feeling.
My knee's a little, oh, I forgot

371
00:23:01,040 --> 00:23:04,440
to take the kratom.
So it's nothing like forgetting

372
00:23:04,440 --> 00:23:06,120
to.
I mean, you forget to take your

373
00:23:06,120 --> 00:23:07,720
oxy.
You're in the bathroom with

374
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:08,800
diarrhea.
You're yeah.

375
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:11,800
And you don't feel good.
Yeah, like you don't forget to

376
00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,200
take your oxy.
So many people.

377
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,440
Practically people, always.
Putting out you know how many

378
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:20,280
pills you have left.
I have never once in my life

379
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:23,960
gone to cupboard and shake in
the bag to see how much left.

380
00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,760
Right, right.
I know because we don't sit here

381
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,440
and dwell on it.
It's just not the same

382
00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:32,120
experience with opiates versus
kratom.

383
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:34,520
It's so easy to forget to dose
kratom.

384
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,880
Exactly.
And like Miss T said, it really

385
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:42,240
allows you to press pause on
your addictions because it takes

386
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:46,960
that obsession away and it lets
you get down to the whys of

387
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,400
things.
Why?

388
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:50,440
Why do you feel you need it?
Why?

389
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:51,920
You know what's happening in
your life?

390
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:55,080
And it really, I really can't
say enough about it.

391
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,320
It's like a miracle.
Yeah, it's it's it's an amazing

392
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,880
plant.
And also when you're talking

393
00:24:00,880 --> 00:24:03,120
about going through chemo
multiple times.

394
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,720
So when you went through that,
you did not ever take kratom at

395
00:24:06,720 --> 00:24:09,600
the same time.
It was always the oxy that.

396
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,840
And I that makes sense because
most people in the medical

397
00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,600
profession don't even know what
kratom is.

398
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,960
I think it's amazing that you
are educating your doctor, your

399
00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,000
anesthesiologist.
Same with me.

400
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,640
I've yet to meet anybody in the
medical profession locally when

401
00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,840
I've gone for anything where
they knew about it.

402
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:31,240
But like you, I've had a couple
surgeries where I tell the

403
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,560
doctors they don't really know
what it is, but they okayed it

404
00:24:35,120 --> 00:24:37,960
with what with a foot surgery I
had, the anesthesiologist said

405
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:39,440
just don't take it after
midnight.

406
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,000
You know, the usual in the
morning, you know, So I followed

407
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,960
all their instructions and both
times it was a appendicitis.

408
00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,560
And then I've had a foot surgery
and both times was able to go

409
00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:56,320
from kratom to the the IV meds,
you know, opiates, but a long, a

410
00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,240
long enough time and pass in
between, like, you know, a

411
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,840
significant amount of time.
And I went right back to kratom

412
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,840
when I got discharged from both
of those.

413
00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,840
And just like you, like I didn't
feel like I needed it.

414
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:10,640
I always, I always get better
pain relief with kratom than I

415
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,840
do with opiates.
So it's just, I know not

416
00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,760
everybody does, but I think it's
amazing that so many of us do so

417
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:22,560
well with this plant that we can
say no to when doctors want to

418
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,720
prescribe opiates, even though
we know they don't prescribe

419
00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:28,720
them like they used to during a
different time now, but still be

420
00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,520
it's so powerful to say no, I
don't need it.

421
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,480
Well I have a along that same
line.

422
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,680
Before I got my second knee done
and I was on the Kratom, I

423
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,680
visited my friend in Oregon and
I hurt my knee, my right knee.

424
00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:44,880
I we hiked and I did something
and I couldn't walk.

425
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,600
It was, you know, swelled up.
It was just awful.

426
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:52,720
And she had Vicodin, a whole
bottle of her, her mother's

427
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,600
Vicodin.
Her mother passed and she had

428
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,960
this and she hands me this, this
bottle of like 50 Vicodin.

429
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:02,880
And I said I didn't need it
because I grade them.

430
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:08,000
I just thought to my I had to
pause and giggle to myself.

431
00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,120
She didn't know my history, but
I had to pause and kind of

432
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:14,600
giggle to myself that, Oh my
God, who am I right now that I

433
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,400
could turn down somebody
offering me 50?

434
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,040
Mike, that is.
Powerful.

435
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:23,000
Yeah, very.
For anyone that suffered through

436
00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:25,720
addiction moment.
Oh, I'm sure it was.

437
00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:29,120
I never suffered through
addiction at All in all in my 9

438
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,240
years with pain management.
I feel very lucky.

439
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,320
I feel very fortunate hearing so
many stories like yourself,

440
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,200
stuff with people in the
struggles of of addiction.

441
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:42,200
It's heart wrenching.
And I think it's just amazing

442
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:46,680
that this plant allows you to
say no to that when the

443
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,000
opportunity arises.
And so many people I've talked

444
00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:53,360
to have said the exact same
thing and even go so far to say,

445
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,400
you know, I still got beer in
the fridge from a long time ago

446
00:26:56,400 --> 00:26:57,880
and I just have no desire for
it.

447
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:01,880
And I just like, wow.
Like it really does put a pause

448
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,280
on all of that.
Yes, it really, it really does.

449
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:09,400
I had wanted to quit.
Well, my job, the job that I

450
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,160
have is I'm on call all the
time.

451
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,480
So there's no drinking because
you can't show up and work with

452
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,880
law enforcement with alcohol.
Right.

453
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:19,120
Without looking like a total
loser.

454
00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:24,200
I don't know if the kratom
helped me with the alcohol, but

455
00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:26,200
the alcohol was never my first
love.

456
00:27:26,200 --> 00:27:29,640
Opiates were my first love.
You know, I remember the minute

457
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:33,320
that that when that switched,
switched, when I took my first

458
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,800
one and felt this is how it
feels to be normal.

459
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,120
This is how other people feel.
Right.

460
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:44,320
And you said you're 15 months of
no alcohol.

461
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,360
Do you feel like kratom has
played a role in that?

462
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:51,560
I don't know.
I think that I credit more well,

463
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,960
my my lifestyle.
I mean, I right now, I mean, I

464
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:57,720
don't even put sugar into my
body anymore after having

465
00:27:57,720 --> 00:27:59,920
cancer.
It just makes you Uber aware of

466
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:05,000
every little thing in your body.
So alcohol is just completely

467
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,560
off the table.
I don't know if that helped, but

468
00:28:07,560 --> 00:28:09,800
that you know, like I said,
opiates were my love.

469
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,400
What I want to know is back to
when you first bought kratom in

470
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:15,920
the smoke shop, how did you like
first hear about it?

471
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,160
Do you hear about it somewhere
on the Internet or word of

472
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:20,000
mouth?
Like how did you first know it

473
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,400
even existed?
You know, I think my friend that

474
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,080
likes to hike and she's a total
nap nature girl, she had one of

475
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:32,800
those little feel free Kava
kratom shots and I don't know if

476
00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:37,120
that's an extract or not, but
she was saying how wonderful it

477
00:28:37,120 --> 00:28:41,640
was and she said yeah, it
supposedly helps with opiate

478
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,360
withdrawal.
So my ears perk up really.

479
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,480
So I did have the desire to not
want to take opiates and take

480
00:28:49,480 --> 00:28:52,200
opiates.
So I think with the kratom and

481
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,320
just the fact that I knew about
it, I knew I had to do something

482
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,040
to mitigate these horrible
withdrawal feelings.

483
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:03,760
And I was kind of at the last my
last sort of hope and I thought,

484
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,400
well, I'll try anything at this
point.

485
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:10,760
And that I mean really that at
that unclenching of that aching

486
00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:15,360
me just dissipated so.
So it started with the.

487
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,960
Feel free you tried that first.
Yeah, tried that. 1st so and

488
00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:23,600
that's an that is an extract
that is feel free is an extract

489
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:26,960
of cava Alfredo.
It's a little small bottle.

490
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,880
It looks like a little like the
little 5 hour energy drink shots

491
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,080
that they call it.
It's a yeah store and these are

492
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:34,360
readily available in gas
stations.

493
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,920
Convenience very, very yes,
they're very expensive.

494
00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:42,960
Now I'm not sure what the for
that one, what the serving size

495
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,080
is, but usually those little
bottles or multiple servings.

496
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,600
But it's not obvious because
who's paying attention to the

497
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,760
fine print that says, oh, this
little tiny bottle is 3 servings

498
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,120
and now you got to figure out
how to make 3 servings out of

499
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:59,440
it, which nobody does.
So while I'm not a big fan of

500
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,080
the extracts, if you are
suffering with pain and

501
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,400
addiction and you're just, you
know, finding something for

502
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,240
relief and it helps you, that's
great.

503
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:12,320
But then do your research,
people need to spend time

504
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:14,760
researching and learn about the
because there's different types

505
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:17,000
of kratom.
And then to let you know, I

506
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:20,960
think when people realize the
whole leaf powder does so much

507
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,920
because it's the whole plant,
you know, it's just magic.

508
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:28,280
I think more than the extracts
and the extract can be, you

509
00:30:28,280 --> 00:30:30,040
know, some people get addicted
to them because they could,

510
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,320
because again, they're not
paying attention to the serving

511
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:36,240
sizes on extracts.
And I think for somebody that's

512
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,840
been through addiction, I think
it's easy for them to fall into

513
00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,480
that trap.
I'm glad that didn't happen to

514
00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:47,000
you because so many times people
I talked to, they just find it

515
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:49,440
in a smoke shop.
They just buy whatever the clerk

516
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:53,640
tells them to buy, not realizing
it could be an extract when

517
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:56,400
they're just trying to really
watch what they're consuming.

518
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,240
But they're not educated yet
because they're just brand new

519
00:30:59,240 --> 00:31:03,560
to it.
Exactly, exactly, which is why I

520
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,400
had gotten the train wreck
capsules and just a few of them.

521
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,760
I mean, it just it took that,
that it scratched that itch.

522
00:31:11,480 --> 00:31:14,840
It's amazing that you got that
the very first time you took it

523
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,600
because yeah, I've talked to so
many people over the years and

524
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:20,000
what I pretty much have
determined based on all the

525
00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:22,880
people I've talked to is about
South like 5050.

526
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:25,080
About half the people I talked
to say the very first time I

527
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:28,000
took kratom where there was a
powder, an extract, whatever.

528
00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:30,440
It was magic.
This is amazing.

529
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,520
I love it.
And then there's like the other

530
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,000
half that I'm in where it took
trial and error.

531
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,440
It took some trial and error.
I'm like, OK, let's see what the

532
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:39,800
fuss is all about.
I'm like, okay, that didn't

533
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,600
really do anything.
We try a little more, still

534
00:31:42,600 --> 00:31:44,480
didn't do anything.
Let me try.

535
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:46,640
There's other colors.
Let me try one of the other

536
00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:49,560
colors.
Like I went from trying the red,

537
00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:53,240
which just didn't help my pain,
to the white, which was like, my

538
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:56,160
gosh, why did I ingest that?
Because that just made my eyes

539
00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:58,800
just a little too much.
Kind of got the wobbles.

540
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,280
I didn't throw up, but just my
eyes just were like kind of

541
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,720
like, oh, I got too much
caffeine.

542
00:32:03,120 --> 00:32:05,800
And then I tried the green.
I'm like, OK, I'm getting

543
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:08,640
something with this green one.
And it's just trial and error to

544
00:32:08,640 --> 00:32:12,160
figure out the dose and and you
know the color of the dose.

545
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:14,880
There's just so much to it.
But I love hearing stories like

546
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,480
yours where that very first time
it was magic.

547
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,080
It just and and you have to
remember too, I was in

548
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,440
withdrawals.
I was day I was probably on my

549
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:30,760
25th hour without the opiates.
And so I was definitely feeling

550
00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:34,320
pretty bad and that didn't I
didn't get a high.

551
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:37,440
I just got relief is the best
way to describe it.

552
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,680
But the little the little feel
free shots that definitely is

553
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:44,320
too wiry.
I don't like it.

554
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,840
It was just not it's not a good
fit.

555
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,480
But yeah, you, I, I credit you
with a lot of, you know, helping

556
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,160
me with the with the sort of
dosage and less is more.

557
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,160
And in fact, I just ordered from
Etha and I'm getting.

558
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,440
Oh, Etha, Etha botanicals.
Yeah, the pressed.

559
00:33:02,000 --> 00:33:06,560
Pills today.
Oh, you know, I wish I had known

560
00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:09,760
about those pressed tablets when
I started creating because, you

561
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:12,840
know, like earlier you were
talking about the toss and wash

562
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:14,560
method Where?
And you probably learned it from

563
00:33:14,560 --> 00:33:16,240
Misty because Misty does that.
I don't.

564
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:18,800
Yeah, that's probably Misty
because, yeah, you put a little

565
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,560
bit of, like, water or some kind
of drink in your mouth, then you

566
00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:26,440
tap your little, you know,
teaspoon or whatever of powder,

567
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:29,520
then you'd get some more water
and then just wash it down.

568
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,400
It's called toss and wash.
And I knew the first time I saw

569
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:34,760
a video of what that was, I'm
like, oh, that's not for me.

570
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,960
I was worried I would choke.
So I've always done the swamp

571
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:40,840
water, and it was really hard to
get down because it tastes so

572
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:44,640
bad, even with juice.
But it gave me amazing pain

573
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:46,240
relief once I started getting
the relief.

574
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:49,040
So for me, it was worth it.
But had I known about those

575
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,720
tablets, I would have started
with that.

576
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:54,800
But The thing is they do cost
more because it takes more labor

577
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,560
to make them.
They they're pressed.

578
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,240
And it is what I love about
ether's tablet.

579
00:33:59,240 --> 00:34:01,240
And these are not the seven Ohi
know people are hearing about

580
00:34:01,240 --> 00:34:03,800
these 70 tablets.
This is just whole leaf kratom

581
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,360
powder press into a tablet.
What I love about ether, it is

582
00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,120
just the powder.
There's no fillers.

583
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,520
They have come up with a method
to press it into a tablet.

584
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:15,120
I love them.
So what I do, I normally do my

585
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:19,320
powder when I'm at home, but if
I'm out and about I'm going to

586
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:22,520
have, if I leave my home, there
are tablets on me because you

587
00:34:22,520 --> 00:34:24,840
never know.
And one time I end up in the ER

588
00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:27,120
a few years ago I also had a leg
infection.

589
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:30,320
I know what that was like.
I've had that and I was in the

590
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:34,480
ER for about 6 hours and I was
like, thank God I brought my

591
00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,800
kratom tablets from Ethan with
me because of course you're in

592
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:40,960
the waiting room forever.
And if I tell them I have

593
00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:42,600
chronic pain, are they going to
give me something?

594
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:45,120
No.
And so I'm just popping my

595
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,239
kratom tablets like, oh, thank
God I brought them.

596
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,679
So I like it for that and I like
it for my early morning dose so

597
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:52,520
I don't have to worry about
getting out of bed and making

598
00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:55,639
some swamp water.
So I love them, but they do cost

599
00:34:55,639 --> 00:34:58,400
more.
So I know for plenty of people,

600
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,920
they'll say it's just a little
bit pricey, which is, you know,

601
00:35:01,920 --> 00:35:04,360
understand.
I can't wait to hear what you

602
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:07,440
think of them because it is an
impressive product.

603
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,560
And not very many vendors make
press tablets.

604
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,600
And when I had them, I've had
them on the podcast, the two

605
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:18,760
founders, Victor and Alexander.
So Alexander's the one that

606
00:35:18,760 --> 00:35:21,400
developed it.
But Victor tells the story in my

607
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,600
podcast when I interviewed him
of how they didn't like the

608
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:25,920
powder.
They were both using it for

609
00:35:25,920 --> 00:35:27,680
chronic pain.
They didn't like the powder.

610
00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:31,600
And he does asking Alexander,
like, can you please come up

611
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,480
with a way?
Like, we don't like the capsules

612
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:35,080
because it's messy and we're
making them.

613
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:39,720
And it's a pain like to come up
with some kind of pressed tablet

614
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,040
with no fillers, nothing else
did because you could take one

615
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:44,920
of those tablets and just crush
it up in your hand.

616
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:47,440
And it is just the power, just
the pattern.

617
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:49,800
It's genius.
It is because you don't really

618
00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:50,960
tell.
I mean, of course, if you like,

619
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:52,720
let it sit on your tongue,
you're going to.

620
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:54,720
Yeah.
But if you have tablets, you're

621
00:35:54,720 --> 00:35:56,720
just popping up like pills,
right?

622
00:35:56,920 --> 00:35:59,360
Right.
I, I just not much of A taste.

623
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,320
And they work really good.
And because they're pressed, I

624
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,400
think we're better than capsules
because capsules, those shells

625
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:07,240
have to open up.
Like I would solve.

626
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,960
I would.
Open the capsules.

627
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:12,960
Yeah, all those capsule shells
would make me nauseous, but as

628
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,520
tablets, they work so well, I
think in the stomach.

629
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:20,760
And also I feel like it lasts a
little bit longer because of the

630
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:22,600
way they're dissolving and
stuff.

631
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:25,040
So I'm so glad you're trying
them.

632
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:26,640
You have to let me know what you
think.

633
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,280
Yeah, I'm.
Anxious.

634
00:36:28,680 --> 00:36:32,360
So let's talk about like, how is
this playing in kratom affecting

635
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,680
your overall day-to-day life?
Are you kidding?

636
00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:38,640
I would.
I'm not counting out pills to

637
00:36:38,720 --> 00:36:41,920
see how many I have left until
my next refill.

638
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,280
We've all played that game.
Yes, we have.

639
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:51,600
So it's given it back honestly
it just you know, there's no, I

640
00:36:51,600 --> 00:36:54,720
can't see any negative side
effects to it.

641
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,040
I don't see other than the taste
is the only sort of but I avoid

642
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,720
that and now with the press
powder it's going to be all

643
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:05,160
avoided even more.
Right, right.

644
00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,520
Yeah.
It's, it's amazing how many

645
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,520
people have gotten their lives
back because of kratom, whether

646
00:37:10,760 --> 00:37:13,480
it was suffering with addiction,
chronic pain, both.

647
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,560
So many people I talked to, it
helps them with their anxiety,

648
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,840
depression.
A lot of people say they take

649
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:24,040
Kratom for pain relief or they
take Kratom for addiction and

650
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:27,080
use it for the recovery.
And it just happens to also help

651
00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:31,280
them with other issues like
anxiety, you know, because so

652
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:34,440
many people said, yeah, like,
this has been amazing for my

653
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,600
sobriety and my recovery.
And also I don't need my Xanax

654
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,400
anymore.
I don't need, I don't need my

655
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,600
ADD medicine anymore.
Like it's like a secondary thing

656
00:37:43,600 --> 00:37:45,480
that they weren't even
expecting.

657
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:50,840
And it's amazing that a plant is
doing this for so many people.

658
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,720
Right.
Because I well like in my case I

659
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:57,600
did it specifically to mitigate
the drug withdrawals, the

660
00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,600
addiction, and then it ended up
working for the pain too, which

661
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:03,560
was an added bonus.
Right.

662
00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:06,120
Yeah, so great.
And do you get nice little

663
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:09,640
energy boost with Cranos?
But so it's popping your stuff.

664
00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:12,080
Too.
It would be like to me, it would

665
00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:14,240
be like having a cup of coffee
in the afternoon, which I

666
00:38:14,240 --> 00:38:16,000
wouldn't think of because it's
not.

667
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,360
I don't want anything to
interfere with my precious

668
00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:19,720
sleep.
Right.

669
00:38:19,720 --> 00:38:22,560
And you know, it's interesting
to learn that kratom is in the

670
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:27,080
same plant family as coffee.
So it's not surprising that you

671
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:31,080
do get like some energy, but a
lot of people get a little

672
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:34,640
energy boost from it, but in a
much better way than caffeine, I

673
00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:35,880
think.
I feel like this is no.

674
00:38:35,920 --> 00:38:37,800
Jittery.
Because yeah, it's not jittery.

675
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:39,840
It's like a clean.
It's like a clean caffeine.

676
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,160
Well, and also and with the
because the opiates give a

677
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,480
energy boost too, but it also
makes you feel like you smoked a

678
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,920
pack of cigarettes.
It makes you that nauseous,

679
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:53,720
wiry, horrible feel.
With the kratom, you don't get

680
00:38:53,720 --> 00:38:58,560
that nauseous horrible, really.
It's more like you say, it's a

681
00:38:58,560 --> 00:39:01,680
natural caffeine boost.
Yeah.

682
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:06,560
And so I'm also so amazed that
you take such a small amount of

683
00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:09,400
Kratom, like it doesn't and
everybody's different, you know,

684
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,000
like for me, I'm taking 2
teaspoons every six hours.

685
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,480
So that's about 5 grams.
That's 20 grams a day.

686
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:17,960
That's kind of like a moderate
to a little high.

687
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:22,080
But also it is individualized.
Some people need a couple of

688
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:26,040
tablespoons for their pain
relief or to help it with their

689
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:28,320
recovery.
Then you get somebody like

690
00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,280
yourself that like you said, you
take, what was it, half a

691
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,000
teaspoon, you said.
A teaspoon.

692
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,200
Such a small because a teaspoon
is roughly 2.4g, so you're

693
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:41,240
taking like half of that, so
you're going to take a little.

694
00:39:41,240 --> 00:39:45,600
Over gram, under 5g per day at
the very very most it's always

695
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:47,800
under 5.
That's.

696
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,800
Just amazing you get the relief
from that because also because

697
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:52,960
like you were saying earlier,
you always hear us saying less

698
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:55,680
is more, less is more.
Because I think so many times

699
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:58,040
when somebody's brand new to
kratom and there's so much to

700
00:39:58,040 --> 00:40:02,120
learn about if you're coming
from the chronic pain community

701
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:05,120
like me, where you are taking
high doses of Oxycontin,

702
00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:08,160
Percocet, gabapentin, all these
things.

703
00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:10,440
You're just automatically
assuming I'm going to need a

704
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:14,120
high dose of this Kratom exactly
because people will say, why

705
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,080
have high tolerance?
You know, so I, I take a lot, a

706
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:18,000
lot of opiates.
I'm like, doesn't mean you

707
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:19,240
necessarily need a lot of
kratom.

708
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:23,040
Or you get somebody that has
been, you know, dealing with

709
00:40:23,040 --> 00:40:24,680
addiction.
They're trying to find this

710
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:27,320
plant for their recovery and
also making this assumption,

711
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,720
well, I took a lot of drugs.
I'm going to need a lot.

712
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:33,120
Of drugs, right?
Yeah, I started with a

713
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:39,600
tablespoon and have worked my
way down because the tablespoon.

714
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:43,640
Too much.
I had no, I was out in my yard

715
00:40:43,640 --> 00:40:47,000
and my eyes got wobbly.
I just feel it in the bushes.

716
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,840
So but yeah, I started with more
and with that mentality.

717
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,480
And when it was the cap, the
just the capsules, I would start

718
00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:00,280
out with, you know, a few and
take it multiple times a day.

719
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,120
And then I thought, well, the
capsules are bugging my stomach

720
00:41:03,120 --> 00:41:04,880
too.
So then I would empty the

721
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,000
capsules and just start taking
the powder.

722
00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:10,400
So then I went on to the powder
and yeah, you know, and then the

723
00:41:10,400 --> 00:41:14,800
reputable kratom distributors
that and they test their stuff,

724
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,560
the ones that you recommend and
all of that.

725
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:19,320
So you have that sort of
confidence that you're not

726
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:22,160
getting it from a smoke shop,
but it's not laced with other

727
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,560
things, right, and all of that.
So.

728
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,360
It's so important to the, you
know, make sure you're getting

729
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:29,920
it from a reputable online
vendor.

730
00:41:29,920 --> 00:41:33,120
That's why I always mentioned to
people the, you know, which ones

731
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,160
I buy from because I did a lot
of research.

732
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,280
I have links to it on the on the
Crime Stories podcast website.

733
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,400
It'll be LinkedIn, the show
notes here for this episode

734
00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:44,040
because when I was first
starting, it was hard to figure

735
00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:47,240
out where do I buy this?
And and people weren't always

736
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:49,480
forthcoming with like where to
go get it.

737
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,880
And I did so much research and I
learned a lot on my own.

738
00:41:53,880 --> 00:41:56,200
That's awesome.
That's and I.

739
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,720
Met a lot of great people.
Oh absolutely.

740
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:01,880
Yeah.
So many amazing people.

741
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,400
And that's why I love running
the Kratom Real Talk community

742
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,160
that you're a part of because
it's so nice to have a place we

743
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,960
can all gather and ask questions
and help each other so we all

744
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,000
feel so alone in our journey.
Well, there's nothing out there

745
00:42:15,240 --> 00:42:19,560
and, you know, and there's still
is the stigmatism that, well,

746
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:23,600
you're not sober, you're still
using, you know, well, it's

747
00:42:23,640 --> 00:42:26,120
plants.
And I'm sorry, but consider

748
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,080
plants to be drugs.
Exactly, exactly, and you've.

749
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:34,200
Run into people that have this
stigma that you are still taking

750
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:37,120
drugs.
You know, I, I hear that more

751
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:40,880
with people who suffer from
addiction that went to kratom

752
00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,040
and that a lot of them are
viewed that way.

753
00:42:43,040 --> 00:42:46,280
As a matter of fact, we just did
A2 part episode with Misty Brown

754
00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,760
and Cassie talking about kratom
and recovery.

755
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,800
And we've talked about, you
know, that stigmatization, like

756
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,440
what you're discussing that
there's a lot of that in the

757
00:42:55,440 --> 00:42:58,000
recovery world where it's like
you're just training in one

758
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,880
addiction for another, right?
That they just don't see kratom

759
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,280
as plant medicine, right?
And that's, you know, we're

760
00:43:05,280 --> 00:43:07,080
trying to change that.
We're trying to change that

761
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:12,120
narrative because it, you know,
I just think it can help so many

762
00:43:12,120 --> 00:43:13,520
people.
So many.

763
00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:17,320
So many that don't accidentally
take a pelvis laced with

764
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:22,040
fentanyl because it happened so
easily and so quickly and it

765
00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:22,960
just.
Right.

766
00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,120
Yeah.
Or in recovery, they're putting

767
00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:27,960
everybody on Suboxone and that
rots your teeth.

768
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,480
There's all kinds of lawsuits
now.

769
00:43:29,720 --> 00:43:32,400
I've talked to so many people in
the Crane community that were on

770
00:43:32,400 --> 00:43:36,080
Suboxone for years and they've
lost all their teeth.

771
00:43:36,080 --> 00:43:39,400
How to get them replaced, other
health, other health issues.

772
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,680
Oh yeah, it's terrible.
It's like they don't.

773
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:44,280
The doctors I know it's
disclosed this, they don't ever.

774
00:43:44,280 --> 00:43:48,360
Talk very very, very expensive.
Isn't it like $70.00 a dosage or

775
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:50,800
something ridiculous?
I I'm not sure.

776
00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,760
I just know that that like in
recovery, they're typically

777
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,960
prescribing Suboxone.
That's that's their way of

778
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,600
dealing with it.
Whereas plant, you know, if they

779
00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:06,120
use kratom, be healthier,
probably work better, just so

780
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:09,240
many pluses.
But it's just there's a stigma

781
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,680
still.
And that's why, you know,

782
00:44:11,680 --> 00:44:14,360
there's so many of us loud and
proud advocates for kratom

783
00:44:14,360 --> 00:44:17,160
because we're just trying to
change that this perception

784
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,640
people have now.
For me with chronic pain, I

785
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,400
don't really feel too much
stigma.

786
00:44:23,400 --> 00:44:27,760
Like I went from 1:00 to like, I
just say I use a plant, right.

787
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:31,720
As a matter of fact, I just did
a post on my Facebook the other

788
00:44:31,720 --> 00:44:35,800
day because there's actually
going to be a news story, an NBC

789
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,360
News story with me about Kratom.
And so I posted some pictures.

790
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,360
It was it was last week when
they came over to my home and

791
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:46,200
talked to me about Kratom for my
crown pain and they had filming

792
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:49,680
making my Kratom tea and stuff,
which was so I posted some

793
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,640
pictures on Facebook and I'm
like, oh, no big deal, NBC can

794
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:53,960
my home and blah, blah, blah,
blah.

795
00:44:54,240 --> 00:44:58,040
And I have a I've been in social
media and digital marketing for

796
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:00,680
a long time.
And so I have a pretty large

797
00:45:00,680 --> 00:45:02,640
following because I've built so
many, I've been building online

798
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,080
communities since the 90s.
So on my Facebook, I have a very

799
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:08,960
diverse group of Facebook
friends from all my different

800
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:10,640
communities, including the
Krannom one.

801
00:45:10,920 --> 00:45:13,440
But I don't always talk about
I'm going to start kind of

802
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,200
putting more Krannom information
out there.

803
00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:19,960
But when I put this info and the
photos I mentioned about how,

804
00:45:20,440 --> 00:45:22,360
because I was thinking of the
people who are going to read

805
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:23,720
this, I don't know what Kratom
is.

806
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:26,800
And you know, we're getting
older, we're getting more pain

807
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:28,560
issues.
I'm like, this is probably going

808
00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,760
to help some people that I've
known a long time or maybe some

809
00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:32,320
old high school friends are
going to see this.

810
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:35,120
And I made a point to mention
that, you know, they came to

811
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,360
talk to me about Kratom, a plant
that I use instead of

812
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:39,960
pharmaceuticals for my chronic
pain.

813
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:43,440
I've already had several people
that I've known a long time

814
00:45:43,720 --> 00:45:47,000
message me and go tell me more
about this kratom and how it's

815
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:50,120
helping your chronic pain.
So I think it's just so

816
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:54,000
important for our voices, you
know, just let people know that

817
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:56,840
this that's why I'm so glad
you're doing this podcast.

818
00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:00,160
Thank you so much because your
story is going to help so many

819
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,320
people.
You.

820
00:46:01,360 --> 00:46:05,560
Know, because I feel like these
first hand stories is the most

821
00:46:05,560 --> 00:46:08,280
helpful thing when you're
starting your cram journey.

822
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,880
Gosh, it's, it's scary in the
beginning because you you don't

823
00:46:10,880 --> 00:46:13,240
know what to expect.
You don't know much about it.

824
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:16,240
You know, no, it's not
prescribed by the doctor.

825
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,880
It's not FDA approved, which
these days doesn't really mean

826
00:46:19,880 --> 00:46:21,440
much.
You know, it's like, no,

827
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,720
considering what they're, yeah,
I think people are it's like it

828
00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:29,800
could be FDA approved, but they
choose not to do it not to that

829
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:31,280
it's on the FDA.
Money in it.

830
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,360
Right.
So they're not regulating it.

831
00:46:33,360 --> 00:46:35,360
So the industry is self
regulated.

832
00:46:35,360 --> 00:46:37,720
That's why it's important to buy
from third part.

833
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,720
You know, vendors that lab test
from third parties that make

834
00:46:41,720 --> 00:46:44,840
sure it's all correct.
It is what the package says it

835
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,680
is.
And I can see in the 5 1/2 years

836
00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:49,960
I've been Ukraine consumer is
getting better.

837
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:53,280
The packaging is so much better.
When I first started kratom

838
00:46:53,760 --> 00:46:56,520
packaging was not very good.
Like you didn't always know what

839
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:58,720
you were getting and you're just
trying the vendor.

840
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:01,760
Whereas these days they have so
much information on the package

841
00:47:02,280 --> 00:47:05,840
and, and it's just nice to know
like, OK, the FDA should be

842
00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:10,120
mandating this, but they're not.
So we just got to take the bull

843
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,840
by the horns and and understand
what we're doing and what we're

844
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:14,840
consuming, which we should be
doing anyway.

845
00:47:14,840 --> 00:47:17,160
I think it's easy to not pay
attention.

846
00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:20,200
To people are just trusting and
I think people are starting to

847
00:47:20,200 --> 00:47:23,240
realize you must educate
yourself.

848
00:47:23,600 --> 00:47:27,000
You must be your own doctor, you
must be your own nutritionist

849
00:47:27,360 --> 00:47:30,120
and find out what you are
taking.

850
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:35,520
I had an interesting point to
make last year when I had first

851
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:38,560
after my first knee replacement
and started the kratom.

852
00:47:38,920 --> 00:47:43,560
I had also started a therapy,
talking to a therapist and had

853
00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:47,000
told her, you know, all about my
past history and my drug

854
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:52,400
addiction and all of that and
she was just vehemently against

855
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,800
kratom.
She said I hate kratom.

856
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,720
I have so many patients that are
trying to get off of kratom and

857
00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:02,600
are going into drug rehabs and
just she said she absolutely

858
00:48:02,600 --> 00:48:05,480
hate it.
And I that keeps sort of

859
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:10,200
wringing my head about why she
hates it so much and why why it

860
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:14,040
was such an evil thing to her.
I mean, she was just viably

861
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:18,000
against it, but I think the
people that abuse it are going

862
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,200
to abuse. 100%, yeah.
And they're not taking

863
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,520
responsibility.
They're blaming.

864
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,920
It's like, wait a minute, did
you blame the alcohol you used

865
00:48:26,920 --> 00:48:27,400
to drink?
Yeah.

866
00:48:27,600 --> 00:48:30,960
Would you blame your benzos?
Like, I don't understand why

867
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,480
people don't blame all the other
things that they abuse, but they

868
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,280
blame freedom, a plant.
It makes no sense, right?

869
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:40,640
Well, it was, it's like when I
used to have panic attacks and

870
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:42,960
anxiety.
That was all alcohol related.

871
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:46,960
Alcohol causes anxiety, period.
So they don't look at the

872
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:51,000
contributing factors, right?
Kratom basically is for when

873
00:48:51,000 --> 00:48:53,320
you're ready to get a hold of
your life and you're ready to

874
00:48:53,320 --> 00:48:57,920
get a hold of yourself.
It's a nice gentle substance

875
00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:01,280
that can assist with that.
But it is truly up to you to get

876
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:04,760
your own life in order and to be
the captain of your soul,

877
00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:07,440
really.
So I love that.

878
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,320
That is awesome.
This has been such a great

879
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:12,040
conversation.
I'm so glad you're doing this

880
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,920
with me.
My last question for you is

881
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:16,200
knowing everything you know now
about kratom, and I know you

882
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,080
haven't been in it for years,
but you know a lot.

883
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:20,600
You've been in this for quite a
while.

884
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,880
What advice would you give to
someone else that would help

885
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:25,440
them in their journey getting
started?

886
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,600
Wait until you're in the thick
of withdrawals and then you will

887
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,800
appreciate the magic of this
plant because it just eases

888
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:36,360
that.
And start very small.

889
00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:39,400
Work up to where your eyes
wobble and you know you've taken

890
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,720
too much.
It's a sort of a hit and miss.

891
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,360
Always go to a trusted vendor.
Read as much as you can, listen

892
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,120
to as many podcasts as you can.
Make your own decisions.

893
00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,200
Make up your own mind about it.
Try it when you're in the in the

894
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:58,080
throes of withdrawal and you
find something natural that

895
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,800
takes that away.
You've got to run with that and

896
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:03,600
change your life.
I mean, it's, it's giving you

897
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:07,320
tools to regain control of your
life.

898
00:50:07,720 --> 00:50:09,480
I think that's the best way to
describe it.

899
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,160
Well said, I love that.
Thank you so much Mary for

900
00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:16,600
taking fine, hanging out with me
and talking about your journey

901
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:22,480
is you've had an incredible 1.
Yes, yes, so, well, thank you.

902
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,320
I appreciate your interest and I
appreciate all that you do for

903
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:28,640
this wonderful plant in this
community.

904
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:31,000
And you know, I know you're
helping people.

905
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:35,160
And if, if it saves one life,
it's all worth it for sure. 100

906
00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:41,080
percent, 100%.
Thank you for listening.

907
00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:44,920
You can get more information at
kratomstoriespodcast.com,

908
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,320
including show notes from this
episode.