Ep 76: Kratom, Chronic Illness, and Losing Pain Management: How Deborah E. Took Control

1
00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,080
On pain management, they have
all the control they can control

2
00:00:03,080 --> 00:00:05,520
when I have the appointment,
when I have the medicine, when I

3
00:00:05,520 --> 00:00:08,600
don't have the medicine, I can't
move to another state because

4
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,360
the timing of the appointments.
I mean everything is controlled

5
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,160
by them like 100%.
And that used to the thought of

6
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,600
that used to really bug me.
Plus the whole thing of how they

7
00:00:17,600 --> 00:00:20,040
treat humans, if they even if
you can even say it, how they

8
00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,080
treat humans because they don't
treat humans like humans.

9
00:00:22,080 --> 00:00:24,840
So when you tell me about
kratom, it was like, I mean,

10
00:00:24,840 --> 00:00:28,520
even if I'm still under pain
management, it's this freedom

11
00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,480
because I can control the
orders, I can pay for my own

12
00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:34,520
order.
And OK, so it's nice that

13
00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,720
insurance pays for oxy.
But The thing is with kratom, I

14
00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:45,120
manage my own kratom aspects.
So it it allows me to feel free.

15
00:00:45,520 --> 00:00:47,920
So even if I do have page
management, I'm still free as a

16
00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:50,640
human being, whereas before I
felt 100% controlled.

17
00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,520
I'm here with my good friend
Deborah E, somebody I go back

18
00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:07,160
with for decades.
And I've had you on the podcast

19
00:01:07,240 --> 00:01:12,000
quite some time ago and you came
on and told your amazing story

20
00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:15,800
of how you discover kratom
through me and got started and

21
00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,760
how amazing it's been for your
chronic pain.

22
00:01:18,120 --> 00:01:21,920
And I thought it was time to
bring you back, Deborah, to see

23
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,480
what's going on with you now.
Plus something you've been

24
00:01:24,480 --> 00:01:27,120
telling me, like lots have
happened since, you know, you've

25
00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:29,880
been on the podcast last and
things that could be really

26
00:01:29,880 --> 00:01:33,680
helpful for people that go to
pain management that are like us

27
00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:35,360
that suffer from chronic pain
issues.

28
00:01:35,800 --> 00:01:37,240
I know you got lots to talk
about.

29
00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:40,560
So thank you for coming back on
the podcast to talk to us again.

30
00:01:41,160 --> 00:01:42,800
Sure thing.
Thanks for having me.

31
00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:47,840
I wanted to come back to help
anyone out there who is involved

32
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,320
with pain management because I
know I was using pain

33
00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:52,640
management.
I think you were too mad before.

34
00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:56,560
Before Titom.
Yeah, and I know that, you know,

35
00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:59,600
it's, it comes down to, hey, do
you want to use Kratom instead

36
00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:01,560
of pain management?
Do you want to continue to use

37
00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:03,680
pain management and not Kratom
or do you want to use both or,

38
00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,720
you know, or neither, whatever.
I mean, there's different

39
00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:08,320
options out there.
But I don't think in my opinion,

40
00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:11,000
if you're going to use Kratom,
you you shouldn't necessarily be

41
00:02:11,000 --> 00:02:13,160
forced to give up your pain
management.

42
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,360
I mean, that's a choice that
each of us should be able to

43
00:02:15,760 --> 00:02:17,920
make on our own, what we're
going to do.

44
00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:22,440
And so I just, I already had
pain management and was already

45
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,320
seeing a nurse practitioner.
So I thought, well, I'll just

46
00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:26,880
keep doing what I'm doing and
I'll also take kratom.

47
00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:30,160
And I, it's not like I walked in
and say, hey, nurse, nice to see

48
00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,600
you.
And by the way, I'm taking

49
00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:33,200
Kratom because you don't want to
rock the boat.

50
00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:35,680
I've learned enough in life that
sometimes it's best just keep

51
00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:37,440
your mouth shut.
Even though I have a hard time

52
00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:38,600
keep my mouth shut a lot of
times.

53
00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:41,920
But anyway, that's what my
husband says, but offer too much

54
00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:46,840
information.
But I found out I'm trying to

55
00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:49,640
think when I when I told you
about this, it was was it about

56
00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:52,120
four months ago it.
Was a while back when you first

57
00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:53,600
were telling me?
Yeah, yeah.

58
00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:58,520
I had a it was like I was at the
end of an appointment with her

59
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:00,120
name's Lisa.
I'll just say Lisa, I don't

60
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:01,400
think I'm divulging any
information.

61
00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:03,640
There's a lot of Lisas in the
world, but that way we don't

62
00:03:03,640 --> 00:03:04,960
want to talk about.
But Lisa was a nurse

63
00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:06,600
practitioner that would see me
every time.

64
00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:10,320
And she I was about to head out
of the office and she said,

65
00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:12,320
wait, I got to talk to you.
And my husband was there.

66
00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,800
So he's like witnessing this
conversation.

67
00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,720
And she sat down, she goes, you
need to cut back a little bit on

68
00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:19,800
the Kratom.
And I, I looked at her like,

69
00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:23,960
wait, you know, I take kratom.
Like, how'd you know I take

70
00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:25,000
kratom?
I didn't say anything, you know,

71
00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:27,040
I think.
And, and so the only thing I can

72
00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:30,080
think of is, oh, my goodness,
pain management is, you know,

73
00:03:30,080 --> 00:03:32,120
because you know, they do urine
testing, right?

74
00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:34,240
They want to see if you're, you
know, taking any.

75
00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,960
I was trying to think of bad
drugs.

76
00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:39,600
Like now I can't think of any
names like cocaine or any of the

77
00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:41,560
street drugs or any of that
stuff out there, right?

78
00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:44,560
But it's like you're testing for
Kratom.

79
00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:46,160
You know, I, I didn't say it
like that.

80
00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:49,560
I was trying to be really cool
and whatever, But so my husband

81
00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:50,880
and I went home.
We're talking about it's like, I

82
00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,320
can't believe.
And that's when I wrote message

83
00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:54,200
to you, Matt.
It's like, had you heard of

84
00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:57,640
this, that pain management is
actually testing and not telling

85
00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,240
anyone, just actually testing it
for now.

86
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,840
The key thing, that's what she
said is you need to cut back.

87
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,080
I mean, that's a key thing.
She didn't say you need to stop

88
00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:08,640
taking Kratom or, and she didn't
ask me, are you taking Kratom?

89
00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,800
She said you need to cut back.
And to me, that's that's a very

90
00:04:11,800 --> 00:04:15,760
important key differentiator
between she didn't say stop.

91
00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:17,680
She just said you need to cut
back.

92
00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:23,960
So I thought, OK, I'll cut back.
So you had not said any, but up

93
00:04:23,960 --> 00:04:26,440
until this point you not
mentioned to her that you

94
00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,360
consume kratom for your pain
issues.

95
00:04:28,640 --> 00:04:30,040
Nope, not at all.
I mean.

96
00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:32,520
I never told you that.
Like, of course, yes, they test.

97
00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,160
I mean, I went through that when
I was in pain management, but

98
00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:37,960
they didn't tell you what
exactly they were testing for,

99
00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:40,120
right?
They didn't tell me at all.

100
00:04:40,480 --> 00:04:42,520
And so I did research.
I, I mentioned, I think the

101
00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,080
first thing I did when I got
home was I, I messaged you, I

102
00:04:45,480 --> 00:04:47,000
said to you, have you ever heard
of this?

103
00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,920
Because I didn't, I mean, it
kind of seems like a no doubt

104
00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:51,320
thing.
Like, of course you could, you

105
00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:54,720
know, test for everything for is
it Pika or, you know, like

106
00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:56,720
people eating cardboard or I
don't know, I don't know if you

107
00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:59,280
test for that.
But I mean, you know, whatever

108
00:04:59,280 --> 00:05:02,520
tests are out on the market or
whatever people want to test

109
00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,640
for.
So it's not that surprising that

110
00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,040
a test exists, but it just was
surprising that they would test

111
00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,800
for it and not say anything.
So I started doing research.

112
00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:16,320
You know, it's like I'm always
curious because I don't, I

113
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,760
don't, for instance, I don't
drink alcohol a lot, but it's

114
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:20,880
not like I haven't ever had wine
in my life.

115
00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:24,080
So I'm always looking up how
long does wine stay in the body?

116
00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:25,840
So I make sure that when I'm
going to an appointment with

117
00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,640
Lisa, I didn't just have wine 15
minutes before I'm going in for

118
00:05:29,640 --> 00:05:33,600
a pee test, you know, make sure
all that's covered.

119
00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:38,800
And the other thing too is our
state allows for marijuana and

120
00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:42,680
I'm not a pot smoker, but a
friend of my daughter's gave me

121
00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,680
gummies one time And it's like,
hey, that works for pain as

122
00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:46,920
well.
Now this is before I'd heard of

123
00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:52,800
kratom.
So I haven't had a pot gummy or

124
00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,120
whatever marijuana gummy or
whatever you want to call them.

125
00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,400
I'll just call them gummies
because that's that's the only

126
00:05:57,400 --> 00:05:58,600
thing I ever tried in that
department.

127
00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:02,160
But they don't work over or I
haven't figured out what works,

128
00:06:02,160 --> 00:06:05,680
but it's not one of the things
that was in my mainstay of

129
00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:07,920
solutions.
But I thought it was cool that

130
00:06:07,920 --> 00:06:10,880
our state allowed it, allowed it
for medical and and now

131
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:12,600
recreational.
So it was definitely something

132
00:06:12,600 --> 00:06:15,880
that was allowed.
And when it was voted in to,

133
00:06:16,400 --> 00:06:19,120
which was quite a while ago, I
thought that it should be

134
00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,400
allowed as far as pain
management, but that was

135
00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:25,720
specifically on the contract.
You know how you go into pain

136
00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:27,640
management, They give you a
contract you have to sign.

137
00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,680
And so it says on there that you
will not drink, you will not

138
00:06:31,680 --> 00:06:33,600
consume marijuana.
Right.

139
00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:37,160
My, my paying contract said that
I didn't say kratom, but that

140
00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:40,240
was also a long time ago.
But I do remember like you will

141
00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:44,040
not consume marijuana, you will
not sell your medications.

142
00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,320
It was like a laundry list of
things.

143
00:06:46,520 --> 00:06:48,440
And yours did not say kratom
ever, right?

144
00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:49,960
No.
It didn't, and that was the next

145
00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:53,120
time we went in to see Lisa.
We just kind of casually, I'm a

146
00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:55,360
people pleader, so I don't want
to like rock the boat.

147
00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,000
I just casually asked.
It's like, hey, I've lost my

148
00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,000
copy.
I didn't say lost it lie, but

149
00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,240
it's like, can I get a copy of
the contract?

150
00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,960
And so we just grabbed it and
you know, put in our files,

151
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,160
quote UN quote, but we read it
line by line.

152
00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:10,120
My husband read it like, I mean,
those things are long, nothing

153
00:07:10,120 --> 00:07:14,320
in there on kratom and nothing
in there and anything that could

154
00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:18,240
be somehow related to kratom.
And again, she didn't said stop.

155
00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:22,240
She just took cut back and from
what I read, it was like 9 to 11

156
00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:26,160
days that it can show up.
So I very carefully and remember

157
00:07:26,160 --> 00:07:29,200
in the earlier interviews on the
podcast here I was talking, the

158
00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:33,520
concern was gabapentin, yes,
that I could not take gabapentin

159
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,360
or at least I could not take too
much gabapentin because it would

160
00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,920
cause a seizure.
Well, Lisa liked to prescribe

161
00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:42,600
gabapentin as A and I kept
telling her this causes

162
00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:43,680
seizures.
I can't take this.

163
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,200
So I mean, I got a long time
without gabapentin and I think

164
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:47,480
I'd gone, What did I tell you,
Matt?

165
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,720
Like 3 years without a seizure
I'd done.

166
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:50,600
Really.
Well, a while.

167
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,080
No seizures.
And I mean, I'd taken gabapentin

168
00:07:54,080 --> 00:07:55,880
like a pill here, a pill there,
whatever.

169
00:07:55,880 --> 00:07:58,640
I mean, they, they work on pain,
but at the point where the

170
00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:01,320
gabapentin's really working well
in pain is about two minutes

171
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:05,440
before I go into a seizure.
So it's definitely, I mean, I'm

172
00:08:05,440 --> 00:08:07,440
looking at the clock.
If I take the gabapentin, I'm

173
00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,320
being super, super, super
careful.

174
00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:12,960
But now we're in a situation I
can't drink because that's on

175
00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:16,040
the contract.
I can't take or I'm not supposed

176
00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,200
to take kratom for 11 days
before the appointment with the

177
00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:23,080
doctor.
The gabapentin causes seizures.

178
00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,960
Anyone who has taken any kind of
like first grade math, well,

179
00:08:26,960 --> 00:08:30,240
maybe not first grade math, but
you know, you, you take courses

180
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:35,960
in school about drugs.
Doesn't even have to be well,

181
00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,000
you, you learn about tolerance.
And so it, you just can't make

182
00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:42,880
it, unlike oxy the whole month
where you're going to get to a

183
00:08:42,880 --> 00:08:44,400
point where there's just an
epoxy.

184
00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:45,960
So you need something else to
supplement.

185
00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:47,920
And that's what I was using the
Kratom for.

186
00:08:48,600 --> 00:08:50,840
And other people might be using
gabapentin.

187
00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,880
I can't use gabapentin.
So no alcohol, no gabapentin, no

188
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,320
kratom, basically nothing.
I was desperate, so I used the

189
00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,200
gabapentin.
I walk into the doctor's office.

190
00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,280
I hadn't even gone back to meet
with Lisa.

191
00:09:04,680 --> 00:09:07,800
I had no kratom in my system
because I was being a good girl.

192
00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,160
And I'd stayed off kratom for 11
days.

193
00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:13,080
I'd had kratom before then, but
I'd stayed off for 11 days to

194
00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,280
make sure.
My P test showed up negative and

195
00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:20,000
I had a seizure right in the
lobby from all the gabapentin I

196
00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:22,240
took because I was following
directions.

197
00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,480
I was doing what I was supposed
to do for the doctor.

198
00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,320
So they basically cancelled my
appointment and I went home.

199
00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:31,000
I kind of wish I'd done P tests.
I wish I'd seen that.

200
00:09:31,480 --> 00:09:33,560
There was no alcohol, no
cradlers, nothing.

201
00:09:33,560 --> 00:09:39,400
I was a good girl.
And exactly, exactly.

202
00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:42,600
And so then I went in the next
time and they cancelled me.

203
00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:46,680
They hadn't called me and sent
me a letter then texted me they

204
00:09:46,680 --> 00:09:48,680
hadn't all these things that I
mean, they normally texted me.

205
00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:51,600
They actually very commutative
office, nothing.

206
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,760
They just cancelled me and I was
going to get a hold of a lawyer

207
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,680
because it's like, you know,
remember how I mentioned to you

208
00:09:57,680 --> 00:10:00,000
that oxy actually was helping
with the blood sugar?

209
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,360
I don't know why.
I have no idea why it, but it

210
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,320
actually helped balance my blood
sugars.

211
00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:10,280
It was a very nice side effect
to the oxy.

212
00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:13,200
But what is it called?
I looked it up.

213
00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:15,400
I think it's patient
abandonment.

214
00:10:16,240 --> 00:10:18,960
It's something that I could have
brought up with the lawyer that

215
00:10:18,960 --> 00:10:22,280
not only is this affecting the
pain management, but now I've

216
00:10:22,280 --> 00:10:26,400
got to redo all of the diabetic
aspects because it's like you're

217
00:10:26,400 --> 00:10:29,840
messing with a chemistry set
here by removing the oxy.

218
00:10:30,520 --> 00:10:33,800
Now my blood sugars are all out
of whack because there's this

219
00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:38,320
piece that's not there and she
could have at least warned me so

220
00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:40,520
I could have worked with this,
but she gave no warning

221
00:10:40,520 --> 00:10:42,040
whatsoever.
She just drop me.

222
00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:44,840
It's like dropping an egg on a,
you know, on pavement.

223
00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:48,800
That was it.
You know, first of all, the

224
00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:53,760
medical establishment has really
failed everybody in every way.

225
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:56,840
But then you look at those of us
with chronic pain that go to

226
00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:02,880
pain management and it's crazy
the stories we hear of, of what

227
00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:07,040
they're doing to people, that
this affects your life and for

228
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:10,680
them to just abruptly drop you
and not communicate.

229
00:11:10,680 --> 00:11:13,640
And, you know, I, when I was
dropped from pain management,

230
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:16,120
you know, I followed all the
rules, never got in trouble, had

231
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:17,600
a great relationship with the
doctor.

232
00:11:18,400 --> 00:11:21,080
And yeah, they're scared to
prescribe.

233
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,800
They want to not get in trouble.
You know, the government's been

234
00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:27,240
so strict.
There's been a lot of policies

235
00:11:27,240 --> 00:11:30,720
over the years that dictate that
come from policy makers, not

236
00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:36,280
medical professionals, but that
they have to follow and nobody

237
00:11:36,280 --> 00:11:41,320
pays attention to like what this
does to us as people that are

238
00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:43,240
now not getting the care we
need.

239
00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:46,120
Exactly.
We're not going to just go.

240
00:11:46,120 --> 00:11:51,040
We're going because we suffer
from one or more things that

241
00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:55,000
needs intervention so that we
can try to live a, a normal

242
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,400
life.
Exactly.

243
00:11:56,760 --> 00:11:59,400
I, I and I had a great
relationship to like, and they

244
00:11:59,400 --> 00:12:02,280
used to communicate so well
until I get a form letter in the

245
00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,680
mail one day that, you know,
they're not going to prescribe

246
00:12:04,680 --> 00:12:06,120
anymore because they're not
going to do this.

247
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:11,000
And I can't imagine, you know, I
can kind of imagine what you

248
00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:13,480
went through because I mean, I
went through it, but like you

249
00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,560
just don't expect that to happen
to you.

250
00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,600
So I, I'm just, I'm so sorry to
hear this happened to you, Deb,

251
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,520
because no one, no one should go
through that.

252
00:12:24,720 --> 00:12:28,160
If anything, you should be able
to fire your pain management

253
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:30,920
doctor.
You know, you know, you know, if

254
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,000
you're able to find ways to
manage your pain without that

255
00:12:35,000 --> 00:12:37,400
intervention, which I was able
to do, not everybody can.

256
00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:39,560
And I totally understand that.
We have plenty of people in our

257
00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:42,960
community that kind of juggle
and they take kratom like you

258
00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:45,480
take kratom and they they're
still in pain management and

259
00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,640
they still get the opiates and
they have a system that works

260
00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:51,960
for them.
In my case, I lost access.

261
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,920
No other doctor would take over.
So I'm thinking, OK, I got to

262
00:12:54,920 --> 00:12:57,960
find something that will 100%
take care of my chronic pain

263
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,520
issues so I don't have to worry
anymore about pharmaceuticals,

264
00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,400
which I didn't think would be
possible.

265
00:13:04,400 --> 00:13:08,440
But for me, kratom works far
better than all the

266
00:13:08,440 --> 00:13:10,480
pharmaceuticals.
But you know, everybody's

267
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:11,400
different.
It's a plant.

268
00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:12,680
It effects everybody
differently.

269
00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:17,120
And so I what I believe in is
finding what works for you and

270
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,680
what works for you may not work
for me and vice versa.

271
00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:25,000
So what, what did you do like
when this all happened?

272
00:13:25,320 --> 00:13:28,280
You contact a lawyer.
They're like, what, what do you

273
00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:29,960
do next?
What are you supposed to do?

274
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,280
I started looking.
For a lawyer after you're out of

275
00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,040
shock.
I I, you know, I was in the

276
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,640
Michael's driving, so I started
looking for a lawyer right away,

277
00:13:39,720 --> 00:13:41,480
you know, and on the phone,
everything what you can see, I

278
00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,360
thought, OK, when I get home,
I'm calling Matt.

279
00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,320
You know, actually I think I
messaged you in the school app

280
00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:47,880
right from the right from the
car.

281
00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:49,680
And it's like, OK, are you
available to talk today?

282
00:13:49,680 --> 00:13:51,160
I think that was the message I
sent you.

283
00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:55,280
It's like, but I thought there's
got to be a lawyer that will

284
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,160
take this on because it was, it
was more, it's like the timing.

285
00:13:58,160 --> 00:14:01,800
You cannot leave a person in a
lurch like this when they they

286
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:03,520
need help.
And it isn't even about pain.

287
00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:05,840
It's just there's other, there's
all these other facets like what

288
00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,480
you said, Madeline.
And I don't think they like, I

289
00:14:08,480 --> 00:14:11,240
like how you said policy makers.
I don't think they realized the

290
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,000
health thing like I've told
people they do.

291
00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:18,600
I have never ever gotten a quote
UN quote high from oxy.

292
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,360
Same.
It's all it's only a pain relief

293
00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:23,040
and it's not even 100% pain
relief.

294
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,400
It's exactly enough to exist,
you know, and it's like, guys,

295
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:28,920
come on.
I'm just trying to live somewhat

296
00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:29,920
of a normal life.
That's it.

297
00:14:29,920 --> 00:14:32,520
I'm not, I'm, I want to be able
to sit in my chair and do stuff

298
00:14:32,520 --> 00:14:35,880
on the computer without dying,
or I mean dying literally, but I

299
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:38,800
mean, otherwise I'm, I'm
wiggling and I'm because it's

300
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:40,400
like this pain.
If it's so bad, I can't get

301
00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:43,080
anything done and I just want to
be able to get something done in

302
00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,120
life.
But so I'm in the car and I

303
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,240
couldn't believe it because my
husband's not overly, he's not

304
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,840
against it, but I'm more likely
the one that say, hey, let's go

305
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,840
check out the pie shop.
I don't do that.

306
00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:56,760
We don't go visit that that
often.

307
00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,280
But he, I think he suggested it
because he was kind of, he was

308
00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,200
really upset with them, the way
they handled it.

309
00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:06,760
And what I really noticed it
wasn't about the absence of the

310
00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:08,960
pain management.
It was about how I felt as a

311
00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,760
person.
I literally felt like dog Doo

312
00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:14,040
Doo in the bottom of the shoe
and that they didn't even have

313
00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:16,920
the decency to treat me like a
human being.

314
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,280
And I think that's what really
bothered me was I didn't feel

315
00:15:19,280 --> 00:15:21,800
like a human being.
So this what was it called?

316
00:15:21,800 --> 00:15:25,560
The reefer store or something
like that, whatever.

317
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,200
It was like 2 blocks away.
We could have practically walked

318
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,600
there and we're driving in our,
in our black Jag, which looks

319
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:35,200
like you have enough money to go
spend at the pot shop, you know,

320
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:39,080
So we, we drive over there and
we, we walk in.

321
00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:40,480
I'm sure that's not why they're
treating us.

322
00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,480
That's nice.
We walk in and Oh my goodness,

323
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,240
it's like my husband said, well,
it's because they're high.

324
00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:50,120
But no, I'm not saying that, but
it's like they treat you like

325
00:15:50,480 --> 00:15:53,520
you're a valuable human being,
like you matter like you.

326
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,080
I mean, you matter because
you're human, because you're

327
00:15:56,080 --> 00:15:58,680
flesh and blood.
And it's, it was.

328
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:02,680
I can't believe the contrast
between coming from a place

329
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,440
where my husband nicely said to
him, he says we're going to have

330
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,480
to contact our lawyers.
He didn't say it threateningly.

331
00:16:07,480 --> 00:16:09,880
He just said, we're going to,
we're going to show the, the

332
00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,920
contract and we'll get back to
you to this other store where

333
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,560
they just like, it's not like
they were insistent we spend

334
00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:18,040
money.
They were just nice people.

335
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:22,360
I thought that's the way that's
the way the world should be is

336
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,720
at this other store where people
are nice to people, not the way

337
00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,000
they are in management.
So I'm like, I don't think I

338
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:30,280
want to go back to pain
management.

339
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,360
I think I want to hang out over
here because these people are

340
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,520
nice to me.
They treat me nicely because I,

341
00:16:34,520 --> 00:16:36,960
I realized then that I'd always
for what is it?

342
00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:39,520
I'd gone to the pain management
place since 2015.

343
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:43,240
So 10 years I've been going to
this gal and I'd every single

344
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:45,080
time I've been scared.
It's like, what if they kicked

345
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,040
me off what they, you know, and
after I'd heard your story,

346
00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:49,440
Matt, I kept thinking they could
kick me off.

347
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:51,520
And so I'd always been prepared
for kratom only.

348
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,280
But and I'm really glad that
kratom works for you.

349
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,760
I am for me, for me.
It's like I have to switch

350
00:16:58,760 --> 00:17:01,320
halfway through the month, like
whatever I'm taking, it starts

351
00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:03,920
to not work.
And so it works really well for

352
00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:07,160
me to do oxy for half the month
and then kratom for half the

353
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,880
month or just do every other
week.

354
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:11,800
That works really well for me to
switch between the two, produce

355
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:15,319
some kind of mixed approach.
Otherwise, I tend to have a

356
00:17:15,319 --> 00:17:17,920
little, It's like I become
resistant even to kratom.

357
00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:23,760
So it works well to have both.
But I made an appointment with I

358
00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,480
don't know what you call them.
I don't think you'd call him pot

359
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:31,480
doctor.
I'm trying to be respectful.

360
00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:33,600
I gave her name, but I didn't
ask permission.

361
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,720
And very nice lady.
But I thought I'd better find a

362
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:41,000
doctor because that actually is
quite a price savings than on

363
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,680
the marijuana.
So we, we bought some gummies,

364
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:46,200
gave me some really good sleep
and some pain relief.

365
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,520
That was nice.
And I made an appointment to be

366
00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:51,680
able and I got the card the
whole thing and I was, it was

367
00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:53,800
nice to find out it's not a sham
or anything.

368
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,960
It's not like you go up to the
the doctor and to say, I need

369
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,240
this, they say, OK, no problem.
I mean, you do have to jump

370
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:00,040
through all the hoops and I
probably had five different

371
00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,040
reasons to qualify for medical
cards.

372
00:18:03,040 --> 00:18:06,440
So and it was, it was pretty
easy to do it over the phone.

373
00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,640
I'm just saying this in case
anyone needs that in addition to

374
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,000
their kratom.
It's, it's pretty easy to do a

375
00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,200
telemed.
And when you say that to

376
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,040
someone, I think they think, oh,
then that means it's a, it's a

377
00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:19,320
sham.
It's not real.

378
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:21,920
It's not.
But I didn't find it a sham.

379
00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,600
She asked me more questions than
regular doctors ask and I had to

380
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:30,000
fill out all, all of the medical
history and the online.

381
00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,960
I would say that they're,
they're definitely a 2025 or you

382
00:18:33,960 --> 00:18:37,920
know, 2025 record type process
and they're really with the

383
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,000
times and with the state and
they're, they're checking

384
00:18:41,000 --> 00:18:42,520
everything.
She asked for permission to

385
00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,720
check my medical history with my
primary doctor, everything.

386
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:49,120
So it might go by really quickly
as far as how you do that over

387
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,080
the phone with the doctor.
But to me, it's what all the

388
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,600
rest of the doctors should have
been doing 20 years ago as far

389
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:58,200
as efficiency.
So if anyone wants to do that in

390
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,920
addition to what they're doing
with kratom or pain management,

391
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,040
the experience I had was pretty
positive.

392
00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,800
It's not like this sham.
So that's one thing.

393
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,160
But here is the really, really
ready for it.

394
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,920
This is the really good news.
I made an appointment at another

395
00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,640
pain management center.
I thought, well, this probably

396
00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,080
isn't going to work.
But we, you know, we got to

397
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,960
knock them off one at a time, go
someplace.

398
00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:23,200
And I went in and my husband's
like, we shouldn't have gone to

399
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:25,200
that reefer store last night.
He goes, they're going to do a

400
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:29,280
pee test and you're like loaded
with marijuana.

401
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:33,720
I said, well, I made an
appointment for next week and

402
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,440
it's like, what is it marijuana?
I think it can show up like in

403
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:39,920
your hair follicles for several
months and whatever.

404
00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,200
And I thought, I'll just explain
to them that, look, I needed a

405
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,160
solution.
I, you know, I use gummies and I

406
00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,080
promise I won't use gummies
anymore.

407
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:50,760
I didn't before.
So I'll be a good girl, you

408
00:19:50,760 --> 00:19:53,200
know, the whole thing.
And so I was prepared my whole

409
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,240
speech to them.
I'll sign a contract.

410
00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,360
I won't drink.
I won't use marijuana.

411
00:19:57,520 --> 00:20:01,040
You're going to find both in my
pee right now because I had pain

412
00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:03,280
and I had to do something.
But I will be a good girl and I

413
00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:05,400
won't do that.
And then I was like, what's

414
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,200
going to happen with the kratom?
Well, anyway, we get in there.

415
00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,200
We're talking to this gal.
Her name is Keiko.

416
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,040
She's really nice.
She's from, you know, Southern

417
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:14,360
California.
That always helps.

418
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,320
And.
And right before and she goes,

419
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:24,440
oh, did we not tell you?
Well, you know, since since

420
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,000
marijuana is legal, we don't
have any problem.

421
00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:30,480
If you use marijuana, we figure,
hey, you're not going to the

422
00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:32,000
worst you're going to do is
throw up from it.

423
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,840
Your body's going to tell you,
it's not like you're going to

424
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:35,720
die from it, so you're fine.
It's legal in the state.

425
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:36,960
So why would we have a problem
with it?

426
00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:41,720
And I look at her and I go,
finally someone who has common

427
00:20:41,720 --> 00:20:43,480
sense.
If the state doesn't have an

428
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:47,080
issue with you with marijuana,
why should pain management?

429
00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:48,880
And she goes, same thing with
kratom.

430
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,160
Why would we have an issue with
you?

431
00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:52,720
It's not illegal, so why are we
going to complain?

432
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,800
I'm thinking, wow, why is it
that this pain management has

433
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,360
common sense but other pain
management doesn't?

434
00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:04,840
Good question.
I mean, I, I, I don't know.

435
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:08,680
I, I know that plenty of people
in the medical community have

436
00:21:08,920 --> 00:21:13,240
gotten misinformation and
propaganda that, you know,

437
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:16,520
caused them to form a very
negative opinion about kratom,

438
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:18,240
sadly.
But a lot of medical

439
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:19,840
professionals don't even know
what it is.

440
00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:21,520
And that's what I always run
into.

441
00:21:22,120 --> 00:21:24,600
I wasn't comfortable mentioning
it the first few years.

442
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:27,280
I mean, I've been using Kratom
for over six years, about 6 1/2

443
00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:30,600
years now.
And in the beginning it's it's

444
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:31,920
still.
And when you come from pain

445
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:35,440
management, as you know, you
still feel like you can't openly

446
00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,360
talk about it because.
People feel.

447
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:41,400
Like oh, hold on, friend, let me
go pop in Oxycontin real quick

448
00:21:41,400 --> 00:21:44,440
before we go, you know, like
that's not part of my

449
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:47,160
conversation ever, right?
You know, because

450
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,560
pharmaceutical, especially
opioids have been demonized so

451
00:21:52,560 --> 00:21:55,840
much for decades and decades
with kratom.

452
00:21:56,120 --> 00:21:59,800
I just always like, are people
going to demonize me for using

453
00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,520
this?
So I was a little quiet in the

454
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:04,560
beginning when it came to
telemedical professionals, but

455
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,880
over time, I got more
comfortable and felt like for me

456
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:10,360
personally, I feel like it's my
duty to talk about it with

457
00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,280
medical professionals because if
anything, I can help educate

458
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,360
them.
And so that's what I've been

459
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:19,520
doing, rarely come across.
So I did go to a doctor earlier

460
00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:22,240
this year and the guy's like, Oh
yeah, I've heard of kratom.

461
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,200
That's great.
And I'm like, whoa.

462
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:29,520
But I'm usually like educating
the doctor or nurse or whoever.

463
00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:33,920
I'm I what I actually do any
doctor appointment for anything

464
00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,360
at all when you have to list
your medications, I I write

465
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:39,400
down, I pick kratom.
Yeah, I do.

466
00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:40,960
I'm.
Trying to think if I list you.

467
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:42,840
I don't think I have been, but
that's a good idea.

468
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,400
Yeah, I do that.
So you know, when you do that,

469
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,440
you know they're going to read.
You sit down with the nurse when

470
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:49,920
you first go and they're going
to read all.

471
00:22:49,920 --> 00:22:52,160
Are you still taking all that?
And she's reading the list.

472
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,640
And it's just so funny when they
go and kratom I go yes.

473
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,040
And it kind of depends on the
vibe.

474
00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:01,000
If they're like really easy
going, laid back and talkative,

475
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:03,880
I'll say yes.
And by the way, I use that for

476
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,760
my chronic pain.
I don't Philippians anymore.

477
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:07,280
It kind it just depends on the
vibe.

478
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,280
If they're rushing or they just
seem really grumpy, then I I

479
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:15,120
just say yes, great.
But I like being able to spark

480
00:23:15,120 --> 00:23:18,440
dialogue because I feel like I
can try to educate them a bit.

481
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,520
And several of them have been
like, wow, that's really

482
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,080
interesting.
That's cool, good, good for you.

483
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:28,120
You know that you found an
alternative, but I've also heard

484
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:30,600
a lot of horror stories where
people try doing that and their

485
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,320
doctors were like, no, I will
not treat you if you use that,

486
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:34,520
that stuff's garbage, blah,
blah, blah.

487
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:38,800
And, and I, I hate when people
go through that because nobody

488
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,400
should for me personally, I'm,
and this is not for something

489
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,440
anybody else has to do.
But if I went to a doctor and

490
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:49,840
they said, no, you cannot take
that, I will not treat you, then

491
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:51,880
I'm like, see ya, I'm not going
to why?

492
00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:55,400
Why I can fire you.
This is not a one way street.

493
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,320
So I, there's no way to tolerate
that.

494
00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:00,640
But everybody's different and I
know that everybody's

495
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:02,360
comfortable.
We've had a lot of conversations

496
00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:04,840
about this on the school
platform and are creating real

497
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,360
talk as well as on TikTok.
And it really boils down to what

498
00:24:08,360 --> 00:24:11,800
you're comfortable doing.
And I'm just very comfortable

499
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,240
doing it.
And I feel like that's part of

500
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,560
my advocacy to help educate
people in the medical community

501
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:20,760
and hopefully provide them with
good, accurate information so

502
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,400
that they did get propaganda or
misinformation.

503
00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:26,080
I can be that catalyst to help
turn that around.

504
00:24:26,080 --> 00:24:30,080
And anytime I talk to someone in
the medical community or science

505
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:32,880
base, if they're not familiar
with it, I always tell them go

506
00:24:32,880 --> 00:24:36,680
to kratomanswers.org.
And it's a great website the AKA

507
00:24:36,680 --> 00:24:39,720
has put together, American
Kratom Association put out that

508
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,040
talks about the science about
the plant.

509
00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:49,600
I send people to your site.
I have lots of resources.

510
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,840
Plus who doesn't want to listen
to stories from real people with

511
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,240
exactly hearing your personal
experience?

512
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:58,320
And so, yeah, I, I think, you
know, my website's a great

513
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,520
resource, but I think as
consumers, for those that are

514
00:25:02,520 --> 00:25:05,840
comfortable, I, I feel, I feel
like it's our duty to try.

515
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,880
We need basically, I have a
video about this on TikTok.

516
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:10,560
I'll have to go find it and put
in the show notes.

517
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:14,880
I think is part of normalizing
the plan.

518
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:19,040
If we're going to be quiet about
it, then we're not going to get

519
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:24,320
progress and it's going to be in
a negative light and then people

520
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:28,600
are going to talk bad about it.
But if we can normalize it to

521
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,840
the medical community and
elsewhere, I think it can have a

522
00:25:32,840 --> 00:25:36,320
bigger impact.
And, and what I think because

523
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,840
I've been open about it,
especially my primary care

524
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:41,080
physician and she's learning a
lot about it from me.

525
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:45,080
I know there's going to come in
time, whether it's a TV story

526
00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:48,760
and on the news negative or
somebody saying something and

527
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,480
she's going to go, oh, I know
about kratom.

528
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,080
I have a patient who I've seen
for years now and she does

529
00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:58,160
great.
Every time I see her I'm so

530
00:25:58,160 --> 00:26:00,120
impressed.
And she used to take all these

531
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,680
opiates.
It's in her chart that I'm

532
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:03,640
reading.
I can see everything she used to

533
00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:05,240
take.
She doesn't take it anymore.

534
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,680
She just uses a plan.
So she's already been educated

535
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:10,400
from me.
So when that's all.

536
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:13,480
Step isn't step forward.
It all adds up.

537
00:26:13,760 --> 00:26:16,880
Exactly.
So, you know, the next time some

538
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:20,200
kind of misinformation or
propaganda comes her way, she

539
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,080
already knows how great this has
been for one of her patients.

540
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:26,520
And I think I for me personally,
I think that's just so

541
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,240
important.
But I'm not to say anybody else

542
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,520
needs to do it is what you're
comfortable.

543
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,440
But I really feel like we can
make change.

544
00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,400
We can make a difference.
What is that?

545
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:38,160
Is that hair commercial that
says and she tells someone and

546
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:40,480
or he tells?
Someone and sell one.

547
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,320
And yeah, and it's like kind of
like that.

548
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:45,320
And I like how you say if you're
comfortable, because I, I think

549
00:26:45,320 --> 00:26:48,040
I didn't used to be comfortable.
Like I mentioned something to my

550
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,720
father about kratom and he's
like, Oh no, that's bad.

551
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:52,640
Or well, as long as you're not
doing that, What is it that

552
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:55,520
marijuana thing?
And I thought, oh man, you know.

553
00:26:55,520 --> 00:26:58,320
And so I didn't, I didn't say
anything to him that I Oh yeah.

554
00:26:58,320 --> 00:26:59,680
Dad, I tried gummies 2 years
ago.

555
00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:00,600
I mean, this is a couple years
ago.

556
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,280
I talked to him, but it was
like, wow, we just won't talk

557
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:05,480
about any of that stuff with
dad, you know, that kind of

558
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:06,640
thing.
But and there's other people

559
00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,920
like that.
But I think that got me being

560
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,480
more quiet for a while.
But then after this experience

561
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:14,800
got me rethinking.
I thought, you know, there's so

562
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,360
many people that judge me like,
OK, I love my son dearly, but I

563
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:20,400
think he called me a drug addict
when I was taking oxy.

564
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:22,160
And it's like, I'm not a drug
addict.

565
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,760
And it it's about figuring out
who you are as a person.

566
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:28,800
I love Madeline that you said
that, you know, it's like you

567
00:27:28,800 --> 00:27:30,960
fire the doctor as far as if
they're not going to treat you

568
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,160
because you take kratom, then,
you know, sayonara, goodbye.

569
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,920
I don't, I don't need you in
your life because I didn't like

570
00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:40,120
that feeling that I had as far
as feeling subhuman by Lisa

571
00:27:40,120 --> 00:27:43,040
that, that, you know, even if
she's going to cancel me, can

572
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,200
you not have the decency to say,
Hey, it's been nice knowing you

573
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,160
have a nice life.
I mean, can you not just just

574
00:27:49,160 --> 00:27:52,480
talk like a human being?
But no, I didn't deserve that.

575
00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,120
It's like, no, no, no, no,
that's not how I want to live my

576
00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:56,280
life.
That's not how I want to feel.

577
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,040
So it's, it's reinforced that
part where I think I'm finally

578
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,400
getting closer where you're at
as far as I was admitting it

579
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:05,760
more publicly and even doing
these podcast episodes where

580
00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:09,000
it's like having these on on my
site and so forth.

581
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,440
And I was never ashamed, by the
way, never ashamed at all doing

582
00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,520
podcast episodes.
But I mean, it was like, do I

583
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,720
want my my dad to see this, that
I'm admitting that, you know,

584
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,360
that I had a pot gummy, you
know, like, you know, that kind

585
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,320
of thing.
But it's like I can't go around

586
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,600
being a people pleaser and
trying to be like two different

587
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:25,880
people.
I am who I am.

588
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:29,240
The oxy helped my diabetes.
I wasn't, you know, all this,

589
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:31,480
this whole list of stuff, my
health, it's my health.

590
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:34,480
And I like to be healthy.
And I'm not going to go live a

591
00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:37,760
certain way because when I tried
to live the way the doctor

592
00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:41,880
wanted me to live, I had a
seizure in her lobby.

593
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,000
And right there I should find a
lawyer and sue her because

594
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:46,680
actually the seizure was her
fault.

595
00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:50,840
At least 99.9% it was her fault.
I was doing what she directed me

596
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,040
to do.
I started to get dropped because

597
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,360
of that, even though you're
following her rules that she was

598
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,160
doing.
It's just terrible you had to go

599
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,440
through all that.
Let's back up for a moment.

600
00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:06,920
Tell everybody a little bit
about you guys say haven't heard

601
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:09,640
your, your first time on the
podcast and you sharing your

602
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:14,880
your, your journey, you know,
before Kratom and then during

603
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:17,840
and, and, and discovering it.
Just briefly tell everybody a

604
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,720
little bit about your health
issues that you've been dealing

605
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:24,760
with and how long and how you
discover Kratom and kind of like

606
00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:26,120
kind of give us a little back
story.

607
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,760
Oh wow.
And like, what was it?

608
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:31,920
We were.
I was on the your Twitter

609
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:33,840
smarter, wasn't it?
They was hanging out there and

610
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,120
you mentioned something about
kratom.

611
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:37,960
Yeah.
And the pain is like.

612
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:41,600
A couple years ago solution.
Yeah, that was, it was a while

613
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:42,920
ago.
I could not believe that there

614
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,240
was something out there, another
solution, because I was still

615
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:49,320
struggling with this whole
gabapentin oxy thing.

616
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:51,680
And I mean all this stuff with
Lisa back then and trying to

617
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,200
find something.
Because you mean you can't just

618
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,480
keep taking a pill that causes
seizures and that it, it's like

619
00:29:58,480 --> 00:30:02,400
a really bad chemistry
concoction that you're trying

620
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,600
not to blow up the house.
So, and I was having, what was

621
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,680
it 2 to three, one to three
seizures a month.

622
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,440
So I was at 120 seizures and I
needed a solution.

623
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,880
And then you come on and you say
something about this kratom.

624
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,000
I never heard of kratom.
I started doing research and

625
00:30:17,000 --> 00:30:19,120
what was it?
Within a week I'd already made a

626
00:30:19,160 --> 00:30:23,720
purchase and and transit.
I was doing like, you know, I

627
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,120
have my whole separate business
life outside of the podcast

628
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,000
called, you know, my Madeline
Sklar stuff.

629
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,560
And yeah, I've been hosting
online chats for many years.

630
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:35,480
And it was what it was my
Twitter smarter, my old chat and

631
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:41,360
we were in spaces, the audio
live audio chat and I, I was

632
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:43,720
starting, I was getting ready.
I was, I think I just started a

633
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:48,480
podcast where I was about to and
I just was trying to weave in

634
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,960
some of that into my business
conversations, which I had not

635
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,120
done before.
I always kept it all separate.

636
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:57,240
But since I was launching the
podcast and I'm being more open

637
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,320
publicly in my business because
normally like you don't talk

638
00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:01,880
about personal stuff in
business, right?

639
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,680
Some do, but it just depends on
what you're comfortable.

640
00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:06,480
So I thought.
And so I just remember I

641
00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:09,880
casually mentioned it towards
the end of that Spaces chat and

642
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,800
you were there that day and you
did not tell me that like.

643
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,200
Oh boy.
I think about a week went by and

644
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,280
then you contacted me.
You said, Oh my gosh, Madeline,

645
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,880
I researched it after you talked
about it.

646
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,920
I went and bought some and I
tried it and Oh my gosh, it's

647
00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,920
the best thing ever.
And I was like, whoa, well,

648
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,440
awesome.
I'm so glad you know, that that

649
00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:35,560
sparked you, you know, learning
more about it and, and, and

650
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,360
giving it a go because I mean
you and.

651
00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:39,840
What are your recommendations?
Was my friend Wade.

652
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,800
Yeah, who you knew who you knew.
So that was yeah, the Kratom

653
00:31:43,800 --> 00:31:45,840
family.
So that's, that's a a vendor

654
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,560
I've known for quite a while.
He was on my list of recommended

655
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:53,120
vendors.
And you knew him from before and

656
00:31:53,120 --> 00:31:56,840
it's like, oh, and I think you'd
called and talked to his wife

657
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,240
and, and got information and was
able to order.

658
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:04,560
And what kind of health issues
do you suffer from where you

659
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,320
know you're going to pain
management and that Kratom is

660
00:32:07,320 --> 00:32:09,840
able to help you as well?
I have chronic pain.

661
00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:12,680
No one's ever been able to
identify what it is.

662
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:14,760
It's funny when you look at my
record, my medical record, it's

663
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:17,520
like start out with chronic leg
pain, but they have no

664
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:19,760
definition.
And then another one that says

665
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:22,080
back pain because I had back
pain at one point.

666
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:23,720
I mean, I've had so many
different pain things.

667
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:27,200
They don't have one, one
definition of what the issue is,

668
00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,200
but I personally think it's from
the diabetes.

669
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,640
I mean, when you what was that?
When I was interviewed for a

670
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,800
diabetic podcast, my friend
said, well, he's my friend

671
00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:36,920
'cause I just met him at the
podcast.

672
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,400
And now we, we talk because
we're both T wonders if you will

673
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,200
type 1.
And he said, Deb, you were

674
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:45,240
diagnosed during the dark ages
because it was in the 70s.

675
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,640
And that's a good point.
If you're, you know, if you're

676
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,720
diagnosed with type 1 diabetes,
like now there's so much

677
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,880
technology like I'll, I'll share
'cause he's, he's well, if he's

678
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,600
got tied up or she or whatever
gender I decide to bequeath

679
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:01,000
little pumpy today.
But like I have this, this pump

680
00:33:01,000 --> 00:33:04,880
and I've had well, not this
pump, but a pump from Medtronic

681
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,840
since 1998, which is a long
time.

682
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,920
But considering I was diagnosed
in 76, that's 76 to 98 is a long

683
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:14,960
time to not have that kind of
technology.

684
00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:18,680
So you're just taking shots,
which means your blood sugar

685
00:33:18,840 --> 00:33:21,080
isn't a blood sugar.
It's actually you're testing

686
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:24,240
urine two hours after whatever
your blood sugar is.

687
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,200
So you find out two hours later
what it was two hours ago.

688
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,040
Oh my God.
And then, and then you're

689
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:31,880
treating it and you know,
hopefully six hours after you

690
00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:33,720
ate the doughnut, which you
shouldn't eat a doughnut, but

691
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:35,560
you know what I mean?
It's like you're finding out

692
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:37,480
what it is and then you're
trying to take insulin that's

693
00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:40,440
taking effect 8 hours after.
I mean, it's everything is like

694
00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:43,400
so far after what's happening
and you're having to have this

695
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:45,640
rigid.
The type of management is

696
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,120
preventative if you're lucky.
So all of that to say that

697
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:53,160
everything for that first 20
years or at least first ten

698
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:56,560
years of my type 1 diagnosis,
that's what I'm paying for now

699
00:33:56,760 --> 00:33:57,840
in pain.
Wow.

700
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,080
So I don't know if they know
what it like.

701
00:34:01,080 --> 00:34:03,320
I told the doctor that
endocrinologist, I said I think

702
00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,840
this is nerve pain from the
diabetes.

703
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:08,880
He says no, that would just be
no feeling at all.

704
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,080
I said, well, you know what?
I'm not a doctor.

705
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:13,280
I don't know what it is.
All I know is whatever pain I

706
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:16,280
had when I was 6, when I was
diagnosed with diabetes and had

707
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,280
really high blood sugar and that
pain that I had, that's the pain

708
00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:21,719
I have all the time.
And it makes sense when you've

709
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,120
had diabetes for 50 years.
Yeah.

710
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:25,679
OK.
The nerve it, it just kind of

711
00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:28,120
makes logical sense to me that
the nerve endings are kind of

712
00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:31,360
fried, you know, So that just
kind of hurts.

713
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,400
It started out in the leg and
now it's just throughout the

714
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:35,400
whole body.
It hurts.

715
00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:37,560
And it might be something else.
I don't know.

716
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,840
Maybe the new pain management
place will help me identify what

717
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:42,840
it is, But it just hurts all the
time.

718
00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:48,800
So that so the type 1 diabetes,
the chronic pain, the I got a

719
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:50,600
weird family.
So there's also post traumatic

720
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:53,000
stress disorder.
I almost laughed cause like

721
00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:57,120
let's see let's collect, let's
let's play life trivia or

722
00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,320
something and see how many cards
we can collect on issues that

723
00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,960
are happening.
But and then also epilepsy.

724
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,360
I've always had seizures but I
thought they were related to

725
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:08,000
type one.
But then I was just diagnosed.

726
00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:09,440
What was that?
I was talking to you about that.

727
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:11,240
I think that was like 3 years
ago.

728
00:35:11,240 --> 00:35:13,920
That's a newer diagnosis, but
it's probably something I've had

729
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:17,320
since I was a little kid.
I fell out of a buggy and hit my

730
00:35:17,320 --> 00:35:22,200
head when I was 18 months old.
So the question is, did I have

731
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:25,200
epilepsy and I fell out of the
buggy because of that or did I

732
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:27,680
hit my head and develop epilepsy
because of that?

733
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:30,320
So it kind of makes you wonder,
you know, which came first, the

734
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,600
what is it the, or the egg or
the chicken or the egg?

735
00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:36,440
That's a good the chicken or the
egg or the horse or whatever the

736
00:35:37,240 --> 00:35:41,120
whatever that saying is.
But so yeah, there's like 3 or 4

737
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:45,360
chronic illnesses that that's
what gets it really tricky with

738
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:47,440
all of these medicines and
trying to make sure you.

739
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,640
Jump the right.
Thing, like I said, a chemistry

740
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,160
kit that you're not mixing the
wrong thing at the wrong time.

741
00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:56,040
And when you talk about like
policy makers versus doctors,

742
00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:58,360
it's like, come on, doctor, you
want to kind of say, I don't

743
00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,480
mean shaking, but it's like,
will you please listen?

744
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:03,720
Because all this is, it's about
timing.

745
00:36:03,720 --> 00:36:07,840
It's about what are like, for
instance, I'm really susceptible

746
00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,320
to, I'm not suicidal, but I am
susceptible to any medicines

747
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:16,240
that have suicidal ideation.
So if that's if the drug has

748
00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:18,680
that, I don't take it because
it's going to trigger something.

749
00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,720
So it's like, do not take that.
But I've met doctors that it's

750
00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:25,120
like they don't care.
It's like, why are you or, or

751
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:30,720
the what is it the brain?
I always the blood brain barrier

752
00:36:30,720 --> 00:36:32,400
thing.
Whatever one of one of the

753
00:36:32,400 --> 00:36:36,320
doctors gave me that one and it
was like, Hey, I have seizures.

754
00:36:36,320 --> 00:36:38,760
You don't give me something that
crosses that barrier because

755
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:40,120
it's going to put you right into
a seizure.

756
00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:42,880
And it almost did.
And you kind of want to say,

757
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:47,080
like in our healthcare system,
why are doctors not paying

758
00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:49,360
attention?
Why are we supposed supposed to

759
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:51,320
be our own doctors?
Although that is a

760
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:53,200
recommendation.
Advocate for yourself.

761
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,880
Yes, absolutely.
It's, I think it's important

762
00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,440
more than ever, you know,
because doctor, you know, with

763
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:03,800
doctors, it's just the medical
industry has changed so much,

764
00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:05,760
you know, and you got
corporations that have bought

765
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,360
out doctor's offices.
So the doctor's just an employee

766
00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:11,040
and it's about how many
appointments can they do in a

767
00:37:11,040 --> 00:37:12,560
day and it's.
All about.

768
00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:16,880
You know, it's, it's not what it
once was, which just adds more

769
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:19,120
stress to us that suffer from
chronic pain.

770
00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,680
And you know, I, I, I tell you,
I don't miss going to pain

771
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:26,760
management for me, you know, 6
1/2 years of not having to go

772
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,440
every month and pee in a cup
every time and prove that I'm

773
00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:34,840
taking what I'm being prescribed
and always worrying about, you

774
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,080
know, do we need to change the
meds because the tolerant,

775
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:39,520
because I would always build up
tolerance.

776
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:42,040
And so we are constantly having
to change the prescriptions

777
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:46,240
around or that or the gazillion
times insurance decided to play

778
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:49,040
policy maker and decide what I
could and couldn't take.

779
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,640
There were times where the
doctors trying to prescribe

780
00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:56,560
something for me because because
of the tolerance issues, it was

781
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,360
a constant juggle and we try
something different to replace

782
00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:01,880
1.
And I mean, the insurance

783
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:03,840
companies would be like, Nope,
Nope.

784
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,800
Yep.
It's like, how is that their

785
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:09,120
decision?
You know, to it's just we're

786
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,120
we're just, you know, money to
them and.

787
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,000
The part of the diabetes.
Yeah, the poor doctors in the

788
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:18,400
middle of it, you know, they're
stuck in the middle of it and

789
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,920
they don't get a say.
They try to get a say with with

790
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:22,280
the companies, but they don't
listen.

791
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:25,120
And I mean, there's been times
when the doctor says, look, I'm

792
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:26,400
so sorry.
We got it.

793
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:29,880
We got to do what they say.
They're dictating what specific

794
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:33,040
medication I can take and he
goes, we got to give us some

795
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:36,000
time and if it doesn't work and
then I can go back to them and

796
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,040
then we can, you know, adjust
course.

797
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,280
And I had to do that so many
times.

798
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,960
It's like, and these would be
medications that we know don't

799
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:46,440
work on me and I would have to
suffer more pain.

800
00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:49,080
And because we'd have to wait
like a month or so.

801
00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,960
And it's like he's like, well,
it's either that or you have to

802
00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:54,720
pay full price because they're
not going to cover it.

803
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:56,440
And actually, I tell you what's
crazy.

804
00:38:56,640 --> 00:38:58,080
I don't know if I've really
talked about this much.

805
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:02,360
Really one of the best opiates
that were told me was Oxycontin.

806
00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:04,920
You know, the one that's so
demonized, right?

807
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:09,240
And that was like Percocets and
and Oxycontins were always the

808
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:13,160
ones that worked well on me.
And it got to the point towards

809
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:15,320
my later years in pain
management, the insurance

810
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:17,520
refused to pay.
They're like, we're not paying

811
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:21,560
for Oxycontin.
You can do the oxycodone or this

812
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:25,440
or that, but the Oxycontin
brand, well, you know, there are

813
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:29,640
many times where you find a
specific brand works on you and

814
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:31,600
the generics don't work very
well.

815
00:39:32,040 --> 00:39:35,960
And so I had to make a decision
at one point, well, they're not

816
00:39:35,960 --> 00:39:42,240
going to pay for it anymore.
So do I pay out of pocket and

817
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,960
not be in as much pain or do I
suffer with, you know, the

818
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:48,640
generic version?
And I at one point I'm like,

819
00:39:49,560 --> 00:39:53,200
screw the insurance company, I'm
just going to pay, you know,

820
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,680
because I don't want to suffer.
And it's really bad looking back

821
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,800
on that.
Like, man, I had to spend a good

822
00:39:58,800 --> 00:40:04,120
portion of my income just to not
be in massive pain because I

823
00:40:04,120 --> 00:40:06,760
don't want to go in disability.
I could have way back then.

824
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,480
I chose not to.
It's like I like to work, you

825
00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:11,040
know, you and I are a lot of
like that, But I mean, we've

826
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,560
been entrepreneurs a long time
and I, I love working, I love

827
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:17,120
doing things, I love creating
and I.

828
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:21,480
Don't want to go in disability
unless I absolutely have to.

829
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,080
I agree with you there.
Don't, unless it's not.

830
00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:27,360
Fun I, I, I just, and I don't,
and I think everybody has, you

831
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,760
know, their own choices to make.
And I think it's fine all the

832
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:33,520
people that are able to do that
and still do things and, and,

833
00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,760
and make it work in their life.
But I'm, I'm going to go as long

834
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:43,520
as I can until I have to.
And I it just sucked that wow to

835
00:40:43,520 --> 00:40:46,240
not be bedridden.
I got to pay a shit load of

836
00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:50,040
money every month so I can have
Oxycontin because it works and

837
00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:51,680
the insurance company doesn't
care.

838
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:55,120
And it, it was a big frustration
of mine.

839
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,640
But when I lost access to pain
management, I discovered kratom.

840
00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:01,680
I'm like, I advocate so hard
because.

841
00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:04,680
And you have the freedom.
How did I not know about this?

842
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:07,680
It worked for me.
For me it works even better than

843
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:09,400
the Oxycontin.
Did it.

844
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:13,200
It erases the pain.
That's the perfect way to say

845
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:15,200
it.
It erases the pain.

846
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,760
It really does.
I still have pain, of course,

847
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:19,760
and it's going to wear off and
I'll be in massive pain.

848
00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:23,920
But in pain management, your
pain is always top of mind

849
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:27,600
because even though you get the
meds, it's not 100%.

850
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,840
You know, I was still like
always feeling like I was

851
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:32,640
walking under a black cloud all
the time.

852
00:41:32,800 --> 00:41:36,080
It's depressing.
You still hurt turning a certain

853
00:41:36,080 --> 00:41:39,640
way or bending down, you know,
excruciating.

854
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:44,080
I discovered kratom that I have
really severe degenerative disk

855
00:41:44,080 --> 00:41:48,240
disease in my back and neck.
I was not able to bend down.

856
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:54,240
It hurts so bad with kratom I
can bend down now.

857
00:41:54,240 --> 00:41:59,120
I know I shouldn't and I I work
very hard not to, but when I at.

858
00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:02,360
Least you can.
When I do, I can still feel

859
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,360
something, but it's not
excruciating where I'm

860
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:07,680
practically in tears like the
way I used to be.

861
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:12,640
And it blows me away that a
plant allows me to feel this way

862
00:42:12,640 --> 00:42:16,240
and have the freedom to be able
to do more than I could do

863
00:42:16,240 --> 00:42:18,400
before in all those years in
pain management.

864
00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:22,560
You know, I, I feel like I, it's
like I don't feel like I'd ever

865
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:24,960
have to retire or go on
disability if I have my access

866
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,000
to Cranium because it works that
well for me.

867
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,080
Well, and you have that, like
you said, the freedom and that

868
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,600
used to bug me when I think
about I'm on pain management.

869
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,120
They have all the control.
They can control when I have the

870
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,480
appointment, when I have the
medicine, when I don't have the

871
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,800
medicine, I can't move to
another state because the timing

872
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:46,160
of the appointments, I mean,
everything is controlled by them

873
00:42:46,160 --> 00:42:48,640
like 100%.
And that used to the thought of

874
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:51,080
that used to really bug me.
Plus the whole thing of how they

875
00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:53,760
treat humans, if they even if
you can even say how they treat

876
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,560
humans because they don't treat
humans like humans.

877
00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,320
So when you tell me about
kratom, it was like, I mean,

878
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:02,000
even if I'm still under pain
management, it's this freedom

879
00:43:02,000 --> 00:43:03,720
because I can control the
orders.

880
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:08,000
I can pay for my own order.
And OK, so it's nice that

881
00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:12,200
insurance pays for oxy.
But The thing is with kratom I

882
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:18,560
manage my own kratom aspect so
it it allows me to feel free.

883
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,400
So even if I do have pain
management, I'm still free as a

884
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,120
human being, whereas before I
felt 100% controlled.

885
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,160
Wow, that's that was a powerful
statement.

886
00:43:28,240 --> 00:43:30,480
You just said that really
powerful.

887
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:32,360
Now I know what the intro for
the podcast will be.

888
00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:36,320
That was very powerful.
Oh, and, and I do want to give

889
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:39,800
some advice to anyone who has
pain management or wants pain

890
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:43,560
management looking for that.
And it does help if, if you're

891
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,360
going to take this advice, it
helps if you're in a state that

892
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:50,280
already has like for instance,
especially medical marijuana is

893
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:54,920
already available.
But if marijuana is available

894
00:43:54,920 --> 00:44:00,200
recreationally is if that law
has already passed, now kratom,

895
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,920
that's a whole nother thing as
far as you need to look up where

896
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:07,560
If kratom is illegal, then
probably this advice isn't worth

897
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:10,000
anything.
So you can ignore this advice.

898
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:15,560
Sorry, but if kratom is not
illegal, in other words, double

899
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:20,200
negative there, Kratom is not
illegal and marijuana is

900
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:24,200
recreationally available, you
can, it's legal.

901
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:27,760
Then I would say go up to, you
know, either call them or

902
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,760
actually visit your pain
management, pain management

903
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,560
place that you want to go to.
If you're trying to scout out

904
00:44:33,560 --> 00:44:37,400
pain management places and just
ask the question, ask them if

905
00:44:37,400 --> 00:44:43,360
it's OK to use marijuana for
pain and if it's OK to use

906
00:44:43,360 --> 00:44:45,240
kratom and just ask the
question.

907
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,440
Because the worst case,
especially if you're scouting

908
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:49,960
out different places, the worst,
the worst case is they'll say,

909
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:52,040
no, it's not OK.
And you go to the next place and

910
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:53,840
ask.
And I mean, maybe make a whole

911
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,160
list of of the different places
that you want to contact.

912
00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,600
Maybe play.
I, I think it personally helps

913
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,360
if you walk in, I think you get
a better response from people

914
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,680
and you can actually see them
and read them.

915
00:45:03,680 --> 00:45:05,920
And like you said, Madeline
starts getting the vibe on how

916
00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:07,880
they'll take things.
It's a little easier if you can

917
00:45:07,880 --> 00:45:09,440
read their face.
But I mean, you could also call

918
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:13,040
them on the phone and check with
them, but you might burn a

919
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:15,080
bridge if they get really nasty
and they can't stand.

920
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:16,520
It's like, Oh no, we wouldn't
dare and did it.

921
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:20,200
And then but maybe you want to
have your spouse go on and ask a

922
00:45:20,200 --> 00:45:22,080
question, then they don't know
it's you and then you can come

923
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:23,800
in later and then just not claim
to ever.

924
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:25,920
I mean, there's different.
Yeah.

925
00:45:26,320 --> 00:45:28,320
Or have a friend friend go ask a
question.

926
00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:31,720
But if you find a place like I
did that says, hey, we have no

927
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:33,360
problem with it.
It's legal in the state, so why

928
00:45:33,360 --> 00:45:34,360
should we have a problem?
Hey now.

929
00:45:34,360 --> 00:45:35,560
Bingo.
Write that one down.

930
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:36,760
That's the place that you want
to go to.

931
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,000
So because I can't believe that
the place where I went is the

932
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,120
only place in the whole United
States that believes that way.

933
00:45:44,120 --> 00:45:47,000
It's just, I didn't know that
that they think that way.

934
00:45:47,000 --> 00:45:49,800
But it makes sense.
It's common sense that if it's

935
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,840
legal in the state, it's legal
at pain management.

936
00:45:52,520 --> 00:45:57,840
Right, That's some great advice.
So moving forward, like what I

937
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,320
know a lot of stuff to just have
like, you know, the whole

938
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:04,240
getting the miracle marijuana.
I mean that that's very recent,

939
00:46:04,240 --> 00:46:07,440
right?
So, so where do you go from

940
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:09,040
here?
Do you like you have the pain

941
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,040
management doctor now or you
still scouting?

942
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,640
Yep, no, I do.
I have I have that gal.

943
00:46:13,880 --> 00:46:16,760
The only thing she doesn't allow
is is drinking and I I actually

944
00:46:16,760 --> 00:46:19,400
don't drink that much anyway.
And I'll, I mean, I hope she's

945
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,560
not watching this Keiko.
No, if I, if I have any, any

946
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:26,760
alcohol, any wine at all, I
just, I actually, I, I know this

947
00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:29,640
sounds, I don't really like
alcohol that much, you know,

948
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,720
other than a glass of wine, but
I just won't have it the night

949
00:46:31,720 --> 00:46:34,040
before appointment.
So, but that's really the only

950
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,640
thing that I'm not allowed to
have.

951
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:37,800
So and I don't, I don't do
anything illegal.

952
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:41,520
So I'm good.
I told her I said, hey, I could

953
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,680
kiss you.
Yeah, I think she's from

954
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,600
California because that's AI
said that to paramedics one time

955
00:46:46,600 --> 00:46:49,280
after a seizure.
So yeah, so I really like, I

956
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:51,560
really like her.
She's a she's a good person.

957
00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:55,720
I'm, I'm signed up and and set
up for or service with that pain

958
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:57,480
management center.
So they do exist.

959
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:01,760
There is hope out there to find
a good pain management place and

960
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,160
I don't, I don't know that I'll
sue the other place.

961
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,120
Although another thing too,
because I was looking into as

962
00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:11,280
far as suing the other place, it
seems like their contracts are

963
00:47:11,280 --> 00:47:13,440
really vague when I was asking
questions about.

964
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,920
I do have a lawyer that's
looking into it, but it seems

965
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,480
like they can be really vague
and it's like the laws on their

966
00:47:19,480 --> 00:47:21,240
side, they probably have really
well paid lawyers.

967
00:47:21,240 --> 00:47:22,360
I don't know.
I don't know what I'm talking

968
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,200
about in saying this, but it's
like it's like, oh, we didn't

969
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:28,160
like the color of your eyes, so
we decided to discontinue

970
00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:30,240
service with you.
I mean, I'm being facetious, but

971
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,200
it's like, OK, so kratom would
be just like, well, we just

972
00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,760
decided we didn't like kratom
that day.

973
00:47:35,760 --> 00:47:38,400
So then you're not serviced
anymore.

974
00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:42,200
I mean even if it's not in their
contract, they can allow

975
00:47:42,200 --> 00:47:44,760
anything in their contract to
just not service you anymore.

976
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:47,720
So if that's true then it's like
you don't have a leg to stand

977
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,600
down to sue them.
For me I'm legal though.

978
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,320
How?
How could it be legal for them

979
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:59,200
to not have Kratom in, in their
contract that you signed, but

980
00:47:59,200 --> 00:48:01,640
all of a sudden like we're going
to fire you because you have

981
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:04,360
kratom in you.
We, we, you know, found or or

982
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,920
not necessarily that we found
Kratom on you don't take so much

983
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,120
like how they even know how much
you are consuming.

984
00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,280
Like how is it they're allowed
to test you for things without

985
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,000
your knowledge?
I don't know, that's a good

986
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:17,520
question.
And the discharge letter, they

987
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,360
didn't give me discharge.
That's a whole other thing.

988
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:20,920
They didn't seem to have a
discharge letter.

989
00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,120
We actually went over.
I found out from the new pain

990
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,440
management that by law they have
to give me a discharge letter

991
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,360
within 15 minutes of me asking
for one.

992
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:31,520
So we drove over there and asked
for one and it said on there it

993
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:34,000
was because of kratom.
It's like you don't have kratom

994
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,960
mentioned in your contract, but
yet on the discharge letter you

995
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,080
got rid of me because of kratom.
That doesn't make sense.

996
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,840
So but when I was looking at the
whole legal thing, it seems like

997
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:46,320
they can get rid of you for any
reason.

998
00:48:46,320 --> 00:48:48,440
But why did they put kratom on
the discharge letter?

999
00:48:48,440 --> 00:48:52,280
So to me that it's still a
little hanky, but I think I have

1000
00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,760
for me personally, I think I
have basis because I had seizure

1001
00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:58,600
because of their advice.
So that one still seems a little

1002
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:01,600
I don't know I might look into
that one as a lawyer.

1003
00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,960
But now that I found another
Crane Center, I feel pretty good

1004
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:07,080
about the.
Future right right now I totally

1005
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:10,200
understand, but this is a a good
wake up call for everybody

1006
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,320
listening that's in pain
management that like things like

1007
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,200
this happen.
So it's trying to, you know,

1008
00:49:17,200 --> 00:49:21,280
wade, wade through these waters
to figure out should you ask if

1009
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:25,920
they test for it?
Should you get get a copy of of

1010
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,680
your contract if you don't have
it or get a new one updated?

1011
00:49:29,040 --> 00:49:32,640
I, I think it's just important
to have as much information as

1012
00:49:32,640 --> 00:49:36,640
possible, but you know, it's at
the same time, it's like, well,

1013
00:49:36,640 --> 00:49:39,840
but what if they're anti kratom
and you just bring it up and

1014
00:49:39,840 --> 00:49:43,040
that causes some kind of
negative reaction from the

1015
00:49:43,040 --> 00:49:44,880
doctor and they want to
terminate you?

1016
00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,040
I, I mean, I agree with you.
I think it doesn't hurt to ask.

1017
00:49:48,040 --> 00:49:49,640
It doesn't hurt to have a
conversation.

1018
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:52,840
But also we know the medical
community, they don't really

1019
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,040
like it if we are knowledgeable
with things and we question

1020
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:57,400
things.
You know, I know a lot of

1021
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,960
doctors don't like that.
I think if I had a pain, man,

1022
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,360
like, OK, if we're going back,
I'm I'm with Lisa, I think I

1023
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:07,120
wouldn't bring up kratom.
I mean, she had brought it up

1024
00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:09,160
and she said you need to cut
back.

1025
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,840
If I had to do over again, well,
I don't know if I'd do anything

1026
00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,880
different because I did actually
cut back to zero in the last

1027
00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:18,600
seizure.
So then the next time I started

1028
00:50:18,600 --> 00:50:20,800
taking because every time I went
to go take a gabapentin, I'm

1029
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:22,760
like, I don't want to have
another seizure.

1030
00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:24,760
I just the idea of having
another seizure.

1031
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:26,320
I just couldn't do it.
So then I would go take the

1032
00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:29,360
kratom instead of gabapentin.
So of course I had kratom in my

1033
00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:31,520
system and that's why I popped
for kratom.

1034
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:36,360
But I think if you're already
going to pain management, I

1035
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:38,560
don't think I'd like you said, I
don't think I would bring up

1036
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:41,800
kratom because it just, it
raises a red flag.

1037
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:44,840
And then if they weren't testing
for it, they'll start testing

1038
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,200
for it because you brought it
up.

1039
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,480
But I think if you're taking
Kratom and you have pain

1040
00:50:49,480 --> 00:50:52,040
management, I think I'd start to
make that list of who to scout

1041
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,440
out for.
So you have a backup list.

1042
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:56,400
I think I'd start doing.
That that's it.

1043
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,080
OK.
That's excellent advice.

1044
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:04,480
And I think for in 2025, I think
for anybody in pain management,

1045
00:51:04,720 --> 00:51:08,200
you should definitely have a
backup plan, at least something

1046
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:15,320
written up so that you're not
just out in the cold overnight.

1047
00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,520
And now, you know, when this,
you know, was started so much of

1048
00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:22,760
the issues in pain management
with losing access or just the

1049
00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:29,280
way, you know, doctors treat us.
It really started when the whole

1050
00:51:29,280 --> 00:51:34,800
CDC in the 2016 when they were
trying to change the enemy and

1051
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,880
have it capped.
You know, it was so crazy.

1052
00:51:37,920 --> 00:51:40,360
And I remember this clearly
because I'm in pain management.

1053
00:51:40,640 --> 00:51:44,360
And apparently they had
something that they that was

1054
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,600
geared for pain for not for pain
management doctors for primary

1055
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:54,200
care physicians advising them
not to prescribe over 90 MME for

1056
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:59,440
for, for with opiates.
And it's like, OK, that makes

1057
00:51:59,440 --> 00:52:02,800
sense.
You know, if you're not pain

1058
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:04,400
management, you're just primary
care.

1059
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:06,440
I mean, you're treating
everybody comes in with issues,

1060
00:52:06,440 --> 00:52:08,440
but you're not necessarily
treating long term stuff.

1061
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,920
If somebody comes in with some
kind of major health issues that

1062
00:52:10,920 --> 00:52:14,200
needs long term care, somebody
needs, you know, to manage their

1063
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,680
pain because it's chronic,
they're going to send you

1064
00:52:16,680 --> 00:52:20,640
somewhere else.
The thing is that letter was so

1065
00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:25,920
misinterpreted that it affected
pain management doctors and that

1066
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:29,400
should have never happened.
So I always was a bit worried,

1067
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,520
but my doctor would anytime I
brought it up, he'd always

1068
00:52:31,520 --> 00:52:33,560
reassure me is that it's fine,
it's fine, it's not going to

1069
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:36,240
affect us.
And so I never thought to have a

1070
00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:41,520
backup plan And and I wish I had
done something because the

1071
00:52:41,520 --> 00:52:44,280
writing was on the wall because
all you heard about for years

1072
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,720
following that constantly in the
news, constantly from people

1073
00:52:47,720 --> 00:52:50,520
suffer from chronic pain on
their social media talking about

1074
00:52:50,760 --> 00:52:53,960
losing access or being forced
off their meds or being tapered

1075
00:52:53,960 --> 00:52:57,120
down or, you know, oh, I can
only get half, half of my usual

1076
00:52:57,120 --> 00:52:58,320
meds now.
That's all the doctor

1077
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:00,120
prescribed.
There was so much talk about

1078
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,080
that and still I just thought my
doctor's cool.

1079
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,600
We have a great relationship.
He says that's fine.

1080
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:08,840
I'm not going to worry about it
until I get a formal letter to

1081
00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,920
mail in 2019.
So here we are all these years

1082
00:53:11,920 --> 00:53:15,240
later, it's 2025.
This is, it feels like this is

1083
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:18,880
happening on steroids now.
It feels like this happens way

1084
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:22,400
more to so many people.
So I, I think it's great advice,

1085
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:23,680
Deb.
I think anybody that's in pain

1086
00:53:23,680 --> 00:53:29,480
management have a back, do some
research, have have some, you

1087
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:31,960
know, things on the side because
you never know.

1088
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:36,600
Yep, I was thinking about it,
but I didn't do it ahead of time

1089
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:38,040
and I wish I'd done it ahead of
time.

1090
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,360
Although for me it did all come
together and work out just.

1091
00:53:41,360 --> 00:53:42,640
Fine.
Yeah, it worked out great for

1092
00:53:42,720 --> 00:53:44,520
you.
Within two days, I mean, I

1093
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:46,960
contacted you and then I think
it was the next day, I already

1094
00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,480
had a new pain management.
So I was very fortunate that it

1095
00:53:49,480 --> 00:53:52,720
worked out so well.
I'm so glad that because yeah,

1096
00:53:52,720 --> 00:53:55,240
no one should have to suffer and
go through these things.

1097
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:57,880
So I'm glad it worked out.
I think this made for a great

1098
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:00,240
topic of discussion today
because other people need to

1099
00:54:00,240 --> 00:54:03,000
know so they feel less alone
that are going through something

1100
00:54:03,000 --> 00:54:08,120
similar to you.
So to wrap up, oh, I, I know it,

1101
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,120
this conversation helped people
for sure.

1102
00:54:10,120 --> 00:54:14,000
So to wrap up what was just some
parting words to share out to

1103
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:17,880
people that suffer from chronic
pain that, you know, feel like

1104
00:54:17,880 --> 00:54:21,280
they, they, you know, need to
hear something so they feel less

1105
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,000
alone.
I think never let anyone make

1106
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,680
you feel less human.
You are a human being and you

1107
00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,120
deserve to be loved.
Exactly where you're at and

1108
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:34,080
exactly who you are here now.
Well said.

1109
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:36,040
This was such a great
conversation, Deb.

1110
00:54:36,040 --> 00:54:38,560
Thank you so much for coming
back on the podcast and sharing

1111
00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,360
this with everybody.
Thank you for having me, I

1112
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:42,000
appreciate it.