Ep 57: Beryl Higgins: From Cancer to Kratom, a Paramedic's Journey to Pain Relief

1:31 Before we dive into today's episode, I want to let you know about Kratom Real Talk. It's a new community for positive, uplifting discussions about the power of whole leaf kratom. If you'd like to be part of the conversation and learn more about this plate or contribute your knowledge, go to kratomrealtalk.com. I'm here with Beryl Higgins, who I've met on TikTok. I still can't get over how many amazing kratom consumers and advocates I meet on TikTok. I never thought that's where so many of us would congregate. But Beryl, I'm so glad I met you there. I really love your content.

2:14 You come on to my TikTok and comment and it's great that that's how we met. Yeah, I know. I'm super excited. I think TikTok and I mean hopefully it doesn't get banned or anything because obviously there's that talk, but it's finding your community, right and being in that kratom community. I definitely. I actually found it through Misty I. Believe Misty Brown. Yes, and then that just spiraled into then finding you into finding Jordan and I just I love it because I felt so want to say like isolated in a way, like I only knew about kratom and that was it. But hearing other people use it for so many amazing benefits that it is, it just makes me feel a lot more like heard. Yeah, well, you don't feel so alone, you know, with with this journey, being able to connect with all these other great people on TikTok as people talk about kratom very regularly over there.

3:11 And I love that. Yeah, no, I'm. I'm hearing other people's stories and being able to hear other people with almost like the same story that I do. Like when I see you reply to comments about people who use it for pain and all that stuff, I'm like yes, I'm not the only one so. Right. That's why I love this podcast because I, you know, we all have our own unique story. And while we have a lot of things in common with others, we also had, you know, nobody has our very own story. And it's just so validating to be able to share it out to the world, but then also help other people. But I guarantee you there's somebody listening to this right now who's getting help by hearing your story. And that's so powerful.

3:54 Yeah, I really hope that somebody can take, but I'm saying and take my story and be like, this was the reason why I started a journey so. That it happens, you know, so a lot of people do get on TikTok to research and learn more about this, especially those in the pain community that come from pain management like I did, where they're looking for alternatives. A lot of people are looking for healthier alternatives, especially with plant medicine and discovering kratom. And so that's why I think our message is so powerful. So I'm eager to hear your kratom journey. Let's start with you telling us a little bit about yourself and life before kratom.

4:36 So. Well, right now I'm 28 years old and about, I want to say six years ago already, I had ovarian cancer. I got diagnosed with stage 1 ovarian cancer. And that was obviously a journey in itself and whatnot. And because of everything, I started going to a pain clinic that literally just shoved me full of pills and whatnot. And I'm a medic. I'm a paramedic as well, and being in the healthcare world itself, I've kind of learned in a way that you kind of just take what they gave you and you deal with that, right?

5:19 And I did not like that because I did not like how the payments made me feel. I got so lazy because of them. I did not feel like myself. I thankfully did not get addicted to them, but for how much I was taking, I knew that that would be an issue down the road. And I was luckily able to get into remission and I was still dealing with chronic pain. And they were just like, OK, just continue going to this pain clinic. We'll keep giving you these scripts and you'll be fine. And I almost got worried once I did start going back to work a little bit that I would be able to function normally on pain medication. You know, we get drug tested when we start work for a reason. So why should it be OK for me to be on oxycodone or whenever just because I have chronic pain?

6:18 So I needed to find an alternate and right now we became a huge thing, especially in my state. I live in Arizona and I, you know, obviously I thought about it, but I could not do that because of my medical license. So if I tested positive for it, that could end very badly for me. So there was not very many options. And I went on Google and I just looked up plant or just pay Med alternatives. And I came across after days of searching a Reddit page that talked about kratom. And I started reading it. And then I'm like, OK, well, maybe like, I don't know. And then I just started kind of slowly researching more and more into that.

7:08 And there was finally one day I was at my breaking point. I was in a lot of pain. My payments were not doing what I wanted them to do anymore because my tolerance had gotten up so much. And finally went to that smoke shop that was close to me that sold kratom and I tried it and I actually got sick off of it. Like the first time was actually the first couple times I tried it, I got sick off of it because I didn't know about the dosage or anything like that. And I kind of gave up for a little bit. And then I tried it again and I messed with the dosage. And then I remember I was sitting there and I was waiting to get that feeling that almost like pain meds give you because it says that it messes, it deals with your opioid receptors.

7:54 I didn't get that feeling, but then the more I just kind of waited, I realized my pain was gone and it was just in that it was almost like a light bulb moment. Like, Oh my gosh, what I actually read online was true and this is something that I can actually take. And then I just started taking it and I love it. How long ago was that? When did you start? I started five years ago. OK, me too. Me too. There's A and Misty Brown. There's a lot of us that we call ourselves A5 year crew because we all started five years ago. So that is so cool. When you said you first tried it and you got sick and you know you had to figure out the dose, you were just taking too much from the start. I think so.

8:38 I remember I got home, I opened the bag and I, I took a spoonful, just a spoonful, and then threw it back. And I yeah, I threw up within like 30 minutes. Because usually when we usually with like supplements, like powder supplements, usually it's like a big scoop, right? Because that's how you, right? And so I can totally see that. Whereas with capsules, I think so many times when people are new and they just go to smoke shop, they buy capsules and they say, well, Kratom doesn't do anything for me because we're so conditioned from the healthcare industry that you don't ever need more than one or two capsules of something. But that's pharmaceuticals. This is a plant, right?

9:19 So that's so interesting. Like because I can totally see, you know, I've been doing smoothies forever and like putting all kinds of powder supplements and you're just used to like a big scoop of it, right? That's just normal. I can totally see where that would happen to you. How did you first hear about Kratom? How did how did you find out about it? Just from from Reddit? And just from Reddit, like I was just doing Google searches because I knew that there had to be something out there that was different than just let me just take payments now because that was going to be my whole bike, literally. And so again, it took a couple of days to start, you know, I'm going feeds into that Google search and it was just for my page. Talk about beta.

10:05 People use it for different things. And then I just search crazy and then I saw MTR news article about it and then I saw another article about it talking about how it helped plus pain person or personally had chronic pain. And then I saw it be used for other things like withdraws from hard drugs. And so I knew that it was something very powerful. But it's like it's also to that point where you chip always believe what you're rude on Internet. And so I'm kind of skeptical at first. It took me, I'm missing 3 weeks before I finally decide, OK, you know what worst comes to worst? I waste $40 and it doesn't do anything for me.

10:49 So I was the same way in the beginning. You know, I like, I, I bought somebody said buy all three of the colors, a red, a white and a green because you need to experiment and see what works for you. So and I was thinking, well, I'll just buy these. If it works, great. If not, you know no worries. But same with me. It took me several weeks to figure out that greens are the only ones that work on me. I don't know why the Reds and whites Whites make me way too jittery. I still can remember the way I felt the first time I tried just white and I felt like my eyeballs were just going like I just, it was weird. It's like I had 10 cups of coffee or something.

11:30 It was just this too jittery feeling. It helped my pain though, but not enough where I felt comfortable, you know? Because of this, the effects I was getting were not very positive. The Reds did nothing for me. People are like Reds are great for pain, it's great for relaxing, it's great for sleep. They don't relax me. It doesn't help me sleep and it didn't help my pain. And I thought well this is weird. So I almost gave up because I didn't even try the green till last. OK. And I'm like finally trying the green. I'm like, Oh my gosh, this one works. Did you like have to experiment with the different colors to figure that out for yourself as well? So I did a little bit, I actually got forgot what website it was, but it was chart that had all the colors and then all the different strays.

12:16 So manga, Bali, Kapula, all the different names, right? And then next to it, it showed the benefits of all of those and desk when I learned Reds are great shirt, you know, red in the bed, green for energy and stuff like that. At first I did take a red because I was so in my mind, I was so tired, I just wanted to sleep. If it took my pain away, then I can sleep. And I realized that yes, it took my pain away, but I would just, I would almost be as lazy as I was on the pain medication. So then I tried to green and the green, which I think is so funny because that's the only thing I take now, is only green because what I can do for a green is I can actually take a little bit in the morning. I don't take a full dose or anything, but I could take a little bit in the morning and I get my energy. And then at night I can take a little bit more, almost like a full dosage or take a full dosage and then I can relax and I sleep amazing.

13:17 And so it's like, I just think it's just so cool, you know, like I'm take a little bit, I can get the energy that I need that the green does provide and then I can take a little bit more and I can relax. I have tried a white and I did kind of get that feeling. I almost also kind of felt like I didn't know how to explain it, almost like really jittery or like almost over anxious in a way. Yes, that's what I felt too, because I even what what I even did like since I'm five years in as well, I went years of not ever doing white kratom ever again, and I've done multiple vendors. But then I had ordered, you know, some of my greens from Jordan at New Hope botanicals and love them so much. And I know you mentioned Jordan from TikTok and they always throw in a sample, right?

14:04 They always throw in a sample, which is awesome. And so they had thrown in a sample of a white. So all these years have gone by and I'm thinking to myself, well, maybe I can add a little bit of it. I won't do full, but I'll do like my green and like maybe do a little less green and just add the, you know, like maybe 1/4 teaspoon or half a teaspoon of the white instead, you know, to still be my usual dose, but we'll put a little bit of white in there. I thought, well, you know, maybe his white strain cream is different. So I did that just about a year ago, I think. So I did that. I swear to God, for four hours. My right hand was just had had just barely the shakes just a little like noticeable. And I'm like, why is it that I react this way to the white? And it wasn't even a full like it was just partial. I, I made it into a blend and I just, I'm like, OK, obviously whites are not for me ever, ever, ever. And I even got to the point when I next time I ordered from Jordan, I put there's like a little comment section in your order form and I put whatever sample you send, please make it a green.

15:05 I'm like, let me be proactive here because I just don't ever want to try white strain ever again. But a lot of people say they do really well with the white strain. So it's so individualized, but you don't know until you try it. Exactly. Yeah, I think, you know, even with not even just the colors, but there's different strains to like I only like the I stick with bodies and maintenance because I heard maintenance or Gracful pain that first started and those are the only two strains that I will do because any other strain that I have tried either doesn't feel like take my pain away or I just feel off on them. I don't know how to like that makes sense. And so during my experimental phase, you know, I did try everything that I possibly could. The smoke shop that I did go to, they have their own in house kratom that came from a reputable vendor. And I ended up becoming really good friends with the owner of the smoke shop.

16:07 And he would give me free samples, different ones, because he knew why I was starting to take it and all that stuff. And that allowed me to kind of try a little things, you know, a little 5g bags. I can see how it works for me. If I like it, great, if I don't, you know. So no, it was, it was interesting for the experimental time even trying capsules, you know, I tried capsules for a little while. I did not get the same effect as the powder. You know, I do a toss and wash. I don't know. But like, I don't know if there is a difference. I don't know, I'm going to be completely honest with you. I don't know exactly how much I take. I just know I'd do like little like a kids soon, a little bit of that and do that two times and that's it. So maybe, you know, with the capsule I just take as much or whatever.

16:57 But no, I experimented until I found everything that lined up for me and I'm happy now. And that's the way to do it. Well, I think, you know, with you being somebody consuming for five years that you can easily eyeball it and know what's that right amount, You know, when you take it every day. I use a little teaspoon thing and I do 2 teaspoons every six hours. That's what works for me. But I think I'm at a point where I could eyeball it, you know, if needed and, and know like how much is the right amount? What's interesting with capsules because I have talked to a lot of people about this to kind of compare notes, because I did start with capsules because everybody said in the beginning, oh, it tastes so bad, it's gross. And I'm thinking, oh, I don't want to like have some nasty tea. I'd rather like take capsules if I could. So I started with capsules and very quickly it's like, OK, this didn't do anything.

17:45 And a lot of people were saying powder is better to go in the powder route, whether you toss and wash or mix it up like swamp water like I do. But something like that is better than the capsules. And what I pretty much determined was for me, and a lot of people say the same thing with the capsules, you're ingesting all those capsule shells and they don't always open up and dissolve, you know? And So what I always felt like when I took capsules is it always felt like my stomach felt heavy. I would feel nauseous and bloated because again, it's a plant. So you're having to consume quite a few capsules to equal your powder dosage. So if I'm sitting here consuming, you know, 2 teaspoons, which is roughly 5 grams, well that could easily be 10 capsules. And like, who wants to have 10 capsule shells sitting in your stomach, number one.

18:32 But then are they all opening up fully? Whereas if you just consume powder with a toss and wash or swamp water tea, that you're ingesting it all immediately. Right, exactly. So I I got way better results and I know some people say poke holes in your capsules. I tried that. I did everything and it was just to no avail. So I had to just suck it up because it tastes bad. Some people like the you know, Jordan's mom from New Hope loves the taste. She has a TikTok. He made a TikTok video of her tossing washing with no water. No, like she likes the taste of it. It is hilarious. It is. I'll have to go get the link to that video and put in the show notes because it is Rarely will you see anybody liking the taste of that bitter powder.

19:21 Yeah, I mean, when I first started I definitely was looking up all these drinks that definitely like hid the taste. So I chocolate milk was one, orange juice, lemonade, stuff like that. And now I can do it with just some cold water and I'm fine and I don't really taste it but I cannot imagine just taking a spoonful. Oh God. No, I mean, when I started, I did orange juice, I did chocolate milk. I tried all the things people said chocolate milk is good for masking the taste and it did. But I, for me, what I found back in the beginning is that kratom worked better if I mixed it with orange juice rather than the chocolate milk, if I did it with orange juice. And I imagine it's because of the alkaloids. People say adding citrus like lemons or, or orange juice can activate the alkaloids to make them work better. And I clearly in the because I kept a journal and that's what's really helpful when you're new.

20:17 So that way you can kind of track. What all you're doing and instead of trying to do it all from memory, and what I notice is that if I did it, while the chocolate milk tasted better, it didn't last as long. My pain relief didn't last as long and it wasn't as effective overall. But if I did orange juice, I got amazing pain relief and it lasted longer. So I had to just suck it up and like, you know what? For me personally, it's worth the bad taste for the pain relief I get and I don't have to have opioids anymore and I don't have to have gabapentin and muscle relaxers. Like I was able to cut all of that out, which is amazing. That yes, gabapentin, Oh my gosh, that is my worst enemy right there. That's so funny though, because though I run it online somewhere, but like eating mango or adding mango juice or like you said, citrus.

21:05 And I've actually found that before because I love mango. Yeah. And I would take some and then I ate a mango and I did notice really it was stronger and it lasted I longer. Like I dose every four or six hours. I dose depending on how bad my pain is and what I'm doing and stuff. I it's ever reported six hours and I noticed that I'm actually able to go Meyer like past the six hours after I ate my mango. Really. Yeah, and so now I I try to get mangoes my just so. Cool, but it's so cool I forget. About it. But you know what they call that is a potentiator. And I did a lot of research at the beginning because people I remember the first time I was in this Facebook group and they were, and that's when I was researching kratom and they were talking about potentiators.

21:56 I had to go Google it. I'm like, what are they talking about? And it just means that it makes it stronger. So I'm like, oh, that makes sense. And they were people talk about different potentiators. Some would say lemon, some would say orange juice. There was a variety of things. Pickle juice. That was that was the one too, pickle juice. And so. So I did all this research on these potentiators, trying to understand more about it because so many people were talking about things like, oh, if I add orange juice or lemons or pickle juice and turmeric, like there's so many things that people talked about. That made the kratom. Stronger so it worked better and so I for a while when I was new to kratom, I was experimenting because I was like, this is fascinating to me. I already knew that orange juice worked really well for me, but I tried the lemon thing and lemons did not make it any better for me at all.

22:45 I tried the pickle juice. So that did. I mean, I try. People even say geez is so interesting. Have you heard of any of these before? No, the only thing I heard was citrus. So like things like almond, orange, stuff like that and mango, that was the only thing. I have not heard of Mango, so that I'm intrigued. Now I'm going to have to look into that one because that's the. First I've heard of that, It was also drinking it hot, like assuming like a tea also works better or something so I mean I. Haven't noticed the difference. I've. Done it warm and I've done it cold. And from I think it's very individualized. We know with this plant it affects everybody differently. So it's very possible that could help somebody more. But I've tried it.

23:34 I mean, I do the small border method. That's just I don't want to do toss and wash. I don't think I'd be very good. I'm worried I'd choke on it. But I've done it cold, I've done it warm, I've done it all. I've done the lemon juice is sitting for long, for hours. You know, I've done it all these different ways. What works for me is I usually just whip it up about an hour ahead of time so it can just naturally cool off a little bit. I add more my orange juice, sometimes I add pineapple juice and I'm good to go. When it lasts my six hours, it's great and it's finding what works for you. But you got me definitely interested in researching mangoes now. Yeah, no, I I think that works great. I just keep forgotting to get mangoes off the grocery store or they're not in season so only a limited time. Right, well, let's talk about like your experience with Kratom since starting.

24:26 So it's been helping your pain just has it been helping your pain more than the pain meds did or like the same or how how's that been working out? Yeah. So I definitely think it has helped me the same. But the one thing that I had noticed, and I think anyone who's been on payments can relate to this is where you only, you know, you're supposed to take one payment every four to six hours or you know, depending on how bad your pain is and whatnot. And I would take one and I would didn't be in pain again within two hours. So then I'm waiting for the other two hours or the other 4 hours so I could take one again. So I'm not double dosing or anything like that. But with Kratom, I'm not in pain for a very, you know, a long pain of time for six hours or so when I start feeling just a little bit of pain, like start coming back, just a little bit of discomfort, I go ahead and I take some Kratom and that's usually around the floor to six mark, depending on, you know, my lady days and stuff like that.

25:29 Even the weather has apparently has something to do with my pain. I don't know, but just depending on how bad that day is, it's every four to six hours. But the one thing that I noticed, and like I mentioned before, I can take a little bit and I can, for example, clean the house and I'm completely silent for all of those hours and I have the energy and then you know, I take a little bit more when I'm done and like I'm happy. I don't have any issues whatsoever. I also noticed when I was working that I can take some the start of my shift and if I had to I would take some in the middle of my shift. But me being at work, you know my mind's there. My mind's not really on my pain or anything. And I have noticed before where if I take some before my shift, I can go that full 12 hour shift or 10 hour shift without having to take any.

26:25 And then as soon as I get home and I take a shower, it does kind of hit me like a train, you know, on the pain starts coming back like crazy. But then I just take something that I collapse, you know, and then I've done for the rest of the night and I sleep amazing. So it's definitely from the pain meds. It was for a very amount of time. I didn't want to overdose or not overdose, but double dose on my pain meds just because my pain came back in two hours. You know, I want I was me being in the medical field. I wanted to do everything book perfect, if that makes sense, and so I was waiting exactly those four to six hours depending on how high of pain dose I had. But with this, I can mess with it. If I do have a bad pain day, sometimes I take a little bit more than I normally do and then I'm good. So I think that's awesome.

27:19 That's great is finding what works for you. It is great that you've got it all figured out. Does it help you with things other than just pain relief? You're talking about you like you get the energy boost. Yeah, it helps me. It gets, like I said, during the day I take a little bit less and I get that energy boost. I have that want to go out for a walk. You know, when I first started taking kratom, I never did walks. I can't even stop them going on a walk. And after I started taking kratom, I was going to walks almost every day, twice a day because I had that energy. It also really helps with my mind. I focus a lot better. I've noticed that at work I came to like focus in a lot more and I'm a little bit more like on my sheet, which I think is.

28:06 Awesome. That's great. Yeah. And I mean, I can imagine how much that helps you with, you know, you work with your shifts. And stuff and being able to, you know, take care of people and not be worrying about your pain. But then also how? You get the, the energy boost and, and so many people talk about the mood boost they get from it. I just think of it as like a pharmacy inside of a plant, you know? I mean, the one thing that I kind of struggled with even when I started taking this was almost like I saw how much weed was getting popular and how people were going crazy about weed and how amazing it can be.

28:48 And I believe it. You know, I've seen cancer patients who I've sat next to in chemo. Do they tell me about their weed and stories and all that stuff. But how when I wanted to talk to other people about it, they would look up item and they would automatically see all these negative side effects that I've never had an issue with. And then they automatically judge because then they also see, oh, it's that opiate receptor. So you're just doing it just to get high. I don't get high. You know, I I feel better, but I don't, I guess connect that into a payment high. And you've been on payments. You kind of understand that payment high versus just a little feeling good on Kratom.

29:34 It doesn't mean that I'm high. You know, it just yeah, that mood boost. I'm happy I have that energy. I'm doing stuff. And so when I did try to tell some people about it, it was almost like I was being shamed for it because like I said, they would go to Google and they would see the negative side effects and tell me how I shouldn't be doing it. And I need to try to find, you know, just deal with pain meds. But why not try? If something works for you, why not do it? I don't want to be, as much as I'm all about medicine and, you know, that's my whole career and whatnot. I don't want to be changed for a pharmaceutical company or just the pharmacy in general for the rest of my life where it wasn't really doing anything. It wasn't helping my life.

30:20 You know, they always talk about when you go to the pain clinic or to your doctor, how's the pain accepting your life? Well, yeah, it affects my life. And such an angered web where, you know, I'm crying in bed. I can't do anything that day. I'm not happy. All of that stuff. But the pain meds, it doesn't help me do things around the house. It doesn't help me focus. It doesn't help me think that I want to live a happy life. It just takes away the pain. That's it. So. Plus, there's all the side. Effects you can have with opiates that we don't have with kratom. Exactly. Like #1 being if you take too much your breathing will stop with opiates. That doesn't happen with kratom. No, I think, and that was another thing was working in the ER and stuff, we would get a lot of overdoses, especially once fentanyl became a huge game in our community here.

31:12 I live in Tucson and I'm right next to the Mexican border, so we have a pretty big crisis that happens here in Tucson and seeing all these opiate overdoses and whatnot happened even before fentanyl became a thing. I was still seeing heroin overdoses and stuff like that in the ER that that's what made me want to be so book perfect because I would feel almost like I failed my medical community out of way if I did get addicted or if I did have an accidental overdose or something like that. And I just, I didn't want to be like that, you know? But with creatine, if I take too much, the one thing I notice is my eyes do that like or whatever you want to call it. Or I just throw it up and then I'm like, OK, that's it, you know?

32:03 Well, kratom is in the same family as coffee, so it makes sense to me that too much, you know, of it could make you a little jittery or or you know, feel like you're over caffeinated. And you know, to me, that makes sense. I understand your frustration when people go and Google kratom and they get all that misinformation and propaganda. You were lucky that when you Googled it, you found good information and you had a very positive experience because even five years ago when I started and I was researching, there was a lot of negative stuff I came across. So I'm glad that you saw the positive, but people are just not educating themselves. I think when they read like you were saying before, when they read that kratom works on the opioid receptors, everybody just I guess thinks they're a medical doctor now and they think that that equals is an opioid and it doesn't.

32:53 Do they not know that like she's go to your opioid receptors, Like all these things that we ingest every day hit on the opioid receptors, People don't realize that it doesn't mean it's an opioid. Right. Yeah, no, the one thing. Or not the one thing, but yeah, it was automatically being connected or oh, kratom's just a legal opiate and no, it's not. Or kratom can cause seizures or it can cause deaths and all of that stuff. But when you actually do the research on it, any death that was linked to kratom, they had something else in the system and it's probably them trying to get that high.

33:35 You know, I don't know. And I'm not here to judge anything. And that's very sad. But just because they have kratom in the system doesn't mean that they over they died on kratom. I do believe that is a very safe plant that if you use it properly, then it can be amazing for you. There was I took a year or I took two years off of kratom. I recently just started again back in July actually, but because I started having some kidney issues and my doctor told me that, oh, it's he, you're taking kratom. So I stopped taking kratom and I was then again back on that pharmaceutical journey of mine that I was not happy about whatsoever. And I almost, I didn't solely want to believe that the issue because of my kidneys.

34:27 Turns out it wasn't. It was because of all of the medication I was thrown at before I got diagnosed with ovarian cancer that they didn't know what was wrong with them. So they were just throwing brand of medication at me. And so that ended up ruining my kidneys and wow, to kind of go back to that doctor and be like, no, it's, I promise you it's not kratom. But of course doctors and people in the medical field, I mean, they get somewhat of, I don't want to say it kickback or anything like that, but they get told, hey, you have to follow this. You have to take these meds and you'll be fine and you'll be fair. And they don't like it when you go off the path of your own and try to figure things out on your own. And that's also another thing that I kind of realized that being on my creative journey was how doctors automatically you tell them that you're not afraid of them. It's the worst thing they ever heard. You could be telling them you're doing heroin. It probably kind of that's a little bit better. So that's, it was really interesting just to kind of see for me being in medical community, finding Kratom out, trying to tell them from a medical standpoint why this is amazing, why it works for me, why I don't want to do pain meds and nerve blockers and all that stuff. And then on the other side, fighting it because they did a Google search of it or they just did that propaganda pretty much. I always send when people like in the medical profession or just people that want to learn

36:00 more about the science, I send them to kratomanswers.org. That's a website put together by the American Krame Association and is is more about the science and facts on kratom. So I think that's always a good starting point to send people that are trying to understand kratom. I have never had anybody in the medical profession that I've been around that even knew what it was. Now the first few years I took kratom, I never mentioned it to a doctor. I just wasn't comfortable yet. But over time I decided to let doctors know that this is what I take. Like I don't take opioids anymore. I take I utilize a plant and and able to take charge of my own health with it. And I have not had any negativity from that luckily.

36:44 But also, I'm in a big city and if I need to fire a doctor, I will because I'm not going to let somebody in the medical profession that doesn't know what kratom is try to dictate to me what's best for me because I don't want to go back to opioids. I will if I have to. But I think kratom gets a bad rap like you were saying, like they always want to assume something's wrong with us is because of kratom. And that always seems to be blamed with everything. And it's interesting that you were able to show that that's not what it was and able to go back to kratom. Did it enlighten the doctor at all when y'all were able to figure out that it was not kratom? Not really.

37:28 You know, I did my research and I woke up the medications that I was on before and you know, obviously I would say 8 out of 10, it was these can cause kidney damage or the amount of ibuprofen I was taking can cause kidney damage, you know, and when I did try to tell him about it, it was, Oh no, no, no, like he just did not want to hear it. I didn't care if I showed him exact sign like you said from American Kratom Association, it would not matter to him. I've also had an experience where I recently was telling a friend of mine that about kratom and whatnot and they automatically I sent them.

38:14 I, I even believe I sent them a page from your website about kratom and stuff like that. And I send a bunch of different links on why I take it and how this is amazing and whatnot. And automatically, Oh well, that's just a cult. Like obviously it's just a biased opinion. They're going to say that no matter what because they're on it. No, just read it. Like I promise you, it's not what you think it is. So you know the reason the top kratom researchers in the country do not consume kratom? They're totally unbiased and their research shows that is not dangerous, that it's not killing a lot of people, that it is almost always Poly drug use when there is a death and that kratom gets blamed when it turns out that they had heroin in their system or fentanyl or all these other drugs. There was even a reported kratom death years back. The dude had a shotgun blast to the chest, but they called it a kratom death.

39:13 So it just really shows you the level of either stupidity or corruption, you know, and take your pick. I mean, there, it's like it's ridiculous. And that's why we need more advocates in the world like us that are talking about this plan and normalizing it. And with you being in the medical community, you know, you have that opportunity to educate like you were just telling with that story and educating somebody in the field. Do you feel like it's just you just keep hitting a brick wall in the community, just trying the medical community? Right now I do. There's one doctor that I worked with a while ago in the ER. Who actually saw me take some?

39:55 I was in my little corner and he saw me take some and it was the middle of my shift and whatnot. And I quickly was like, Oh no, bring vitamins, nothing, you know? And he recognized the bag and he's like, no, that's for freedom. And he was the only doctor and any other medical professional. So nurses, Techs. Pharmacy tests, all of that stuff. He knew what it was and he was actually open to it. He's like, I don't know much about it, but I know I seen some of my patients come in here and like we'll say like drug addicts who use it for withdraw and I seen them change for the better because they said they were starting to take kratom.

40:38 So he you know, he's like, I don't have enough information to speak on it, but I said how to figure paying do it. So that was the one person who accepted me for me, I guess. But other than that, I didn't try to talk about it. But even I work on that. I just recently worked on a chiropractic office and he is completely anti like 100% all about ballistic stuff. And he didn't know about kratom. And, you know, I kind of talked about it with him a little bit just because I know that he was in the holistic community and whatnot. And, and he again, he looked it up. I tried to send him some links about it and he just automatically owned Google.

41:22 The first thing, you know, death hit me family. You're like all of this stuff. He's like, Oh no, no, I would never like, but yet take all these supplements that honestly don't have any FDA research on it. And you think that's fine, but you won't do any research on the kratom so. I think, you know, in your case, you're just able to show through example like how great you're doing and they've got it. The people that you work with in the medical profession, you've got to see like how great you do considering your history with pain, with cancer, with all the things you've been through over the years. Like in my case, I'm not in the medical profession, but like my primary care physician is so on board with the she doesn't know about Kratom. And several years ago when I, she was a newer primary care for me.

42:13 So I just started from day one. I was just going to inform her that by the way, I take a botanical supplement called kratom so I don't have to take opioids anymore. And it's already in my chart, you know, it shows in the chart. So she can clearly see that I have degenerative disc disease. I have all, all the different things and that I have been treated and knows nine years of pain management. So, you know, it's all available for her to access. So with me going to her either once or for a while doing twice a year, I just go once a year now. But she could see through me how well I'm doing and I would always make a point to remind her that I consume Kratom, which is just a plant and she was one time she goes, I'll have to look into that. Where should I go online?

42:57 And I gave her Crater basers.org and she even wrote in the chart because when I went into the my chart to see her notes and even showed that. And I felt like that's my way of advocating in the medical field is to normalize it, to educate them so that the next time she hears about it, she's going to Remember Me. I'm like, yeah, I have this patient that does really well, and she doesn't take pain beds anymore. She's been using this planet for five years. And every time I see her, she looks great. Her labs are always great. I've never had any lab issues since I've been consuming kratom. What? What about you? The only thing I have issues with my I'm anemic and I have an iron deficiency but other than that since I went into since I went into remission from cancer my lags have looked always been perfect like I've never had an issue. Every time I go and get my vitals done, perfect everything perfect so I've never seen an issue. That's correct.

43:54 Well, I'm so glad you're on your mission and you've been through a lot in your life. I'm so glad we met on TikTok and having you come on here and Share your story. So you're like me, been consuming kratom for five years. My last question is knowing everything you know now about kratom, you know a lot. What advice would you give to somebody who was just starting out? Now they're researching it and like helping them. I know starting is so hard for a lot of people, So what advice would you share? The one thing I would say what I did was find a gun website that shows the different colors, the different strands and exactly what you're looking for. And then just if you can buy little 5G bags of different strands, different colors and go from there.

44:41 Test your dosage. Don't take too much at once. Take just a little, you know, teaspoon of it. Wait a little bit, like wait 30 minutes, see how you feel. Can you take a little bit more? Do that. If you know you did take too much, you're probably going to throw it up like I did. But definitely start slower than going big or go home. And I would just say test what works best for you. Little 5 grand bags are not that expensive and just see what works best for you. But my biggest thing is research what colors might be best for you and then what strain and then what that strain might do for you. Try it, if it doesn't work for you then go on to the next one. That's all excellent advice, Barrel. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast and sharing your story.

45:30 I know this will help so many people. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited that I was able to actually finally share my story and someone like, you know, I just, I'm so happy and thankful for that. So thank you so much. Thank. You thank you for listening. You can get more information at kratomstoriespodcast.com, including show notes from this episode.