Ep 58: From Addiction to Healing: A Kratom Journey with Misty & Kassie - Part 1

0:00 I want people to know that kratom is an option. You know, it helped me. And so when I started doing that, I got a lot of backlash from the abstinence recovery community, from the Mac community. And you know what? I just, I didn't lay down and take it. They just fueled my advocacy fire. But I would also love to see plant based recovery centers. Welcome to Kratom Stories, a weekly podcast where we share stories of how this amazing plant has changed our lives. I'm your host, Madeleine Sklar. Each week I'll bring you a new episode featuring interviews with experts, advocates, and everyday people who've experienced the benefits of kratom first hand.

0:45 Join me as we dive deeper into the world of this botanical wonder and discover the amazing stories behind this incredible plant. The Kratom Stories Podcast is presented solely for educational purposes. Neither the podcast nor its host promote or endorse the use of kratom, a substance not yet regulated or approved by the FDA. The views and opinions expressed by guests are theirs alone and do not necessarily reflect those of the host or the podcast. The content is not intended as a substitute for professional medical advice, diagnosis, or treatment. Always seek the advice of your physician or other qualified healthcare provider with any questions regarding the use of kratom.

1:50 We got a special edition of the Kratom Stories podcast today. I am doing something a little different. I have Misty Brown and Cassie here. These are two lovely ladies that I've interviewed in the past talking about using kratom in their recovery. Cassie was on recently episode number 51, and Misty was episode number 2, and then she was back for episode #48. So ladies, thank you for coming back on, but doing it as a group so we can have an interesting conversation today. You're very welcome. Yeah, I think this will be a lot of fun, a little different than what we usually do here. I just want to learn more about both of you with kratom and recovery. So why don't we start off 1st and we'll go with you, Misty 1st and then Cassie, won't you share a little bit about your background in your journey with addiction? I started going to chronic pain management in 2006. Right at that time was when I was having migraines and I didn't get diagnosed with degenerative disc disease until 2008.

2:54 Now, I was responsibly taking my medications from 2006 to around 2008. That's when I slid into the addiction side. I will always say that I survived the over prescribing epidemic. I was being prescribed pain pills left right. I could call my doctors in, they would call the refills in over the phone. I could go pick them up at 2:00 in the morning, you know, So I didn't slide into the addiction side until 2008. And then from 2008 to 2019, it was month after month, doctor after doctor, pharmacy after pharmacy. You know, I was stuck in that addiction cycle that whole time. Yes, I was depressed.

3:36 Yes, I was dealing with PTSDI, was dealing with anxiety, you know, all that stuff, on top of dealing with chronic pain at the same time. So I always say that the doctors were the ones that gave me the keys to stay into my addiction cycle. Now, people have commented to me before and say, well, why didn't you ever tell your doctor you were addicted? And I'd be like, why would I tell my drug dealer in a white coat that I'm addicted? You know, I was secretly addicted for those eleven years and I'd lived with that shame and that guilt, but I just kept it, kept fueling, fueling my addiction process as well. So chronic pain management survivor here.

4:17 Yeah, Cassie, what about you? Why don't you tell us a little bit about your background and your journey with addiction? All right, so I pretty much spent about 15 years in an active addiction. I yeah, I basically mine started with with pills. The first ones was I can talk about those here, right? Can I talk about or do you want me to just not say the name? OK. So mine started with Klonopin and Ultram and I was taking it responsibly. Not for long though. And then I started just taking more and more and you know, things got out of control. Eventually I had gotten back on my ADHD medication which was Adderall and that was the beginning of hell for me. I was using them really bad and eventually it led to heroin and then it led to cocaine and crack and pretty much after that anything else I can get my hands on? So it was a rough dark Rd. for a long time and thank God for this.

5:26 But eventually I just got tired of it and I was like OK, I want my life back. And I had got in touch with a family member and went to a detox. And when I was in the detox I knew that I I knew that I personally needed a program because if I was basically allowed my freedom a little bit, I was going to get high again. So and I knew I needed something long term because of how heavy my addiction was so. So you needed structure. Oh yeah, yeah, I definitely needed structure and the structure of the program I went to is is helped me a lot. So yeah, I went to the program. It was a ended up being a two year program and went there in 2017, graduated in 2019.

6:11 And yeah, I've been just trying to do the recovery thing ever since. Of course, I've had my struggles and, you know, being clean and not having anything in your system, you start seeing like, or started like my mental health issues started like coming out. And because you're when you're fucked up all the time, you're not, you don't know what's going on. So yeah, like when I started focusing on my health and those things like that, mental health was bad. And so, yeah, eventually, like maybe only two or three years ago, it's been almost eight years I've been in recovery. Two or three years ago, I finally had to get back on some medication for my anxiety and depression because between the time I graduated and the time I got back on medication and I had coping skills good enough to halfway deal with it. But like I said, it just got to the point where I couldn't, couldn't just rely on that anymore. So I got on my medications.

7:07 And then this year's been a a rough year. And as some struggles that for the first time since being in recovery I I almost went back into active addiction and found kratom and it kept me from doing that. I'm so glad you found kratom. That's awesome. Now, Misty, you were not trying to seek recovery. Your story's a little bit different. Why don't you tell us about that? When I got fired from pain management in April of 2019, I got fired because, you know, when you go to pain management, at that time you were supposed to sign these contracts, you know, and in that contract it said that I could be called in for a pill count at any time. I never thought it would happen to me because it never happened before.

7:53 And so I got called in for a pill count. I didn't show up because I was 11 pills short. You know, I was at jury duty when I got called in and I was like, I can't make it today before 5:00 PM. They were like, OK, we'll give you 24 hours to come in. I couldn't find any of my drug dealers that had any of those pink oxycodone tins. You know, they had 20s. They had 30s, but they were different colors. So I just didn't show up. So I got fired. And what I did was I went to the streets and started doing cocaine while I was in search of a new pain management doctor because, you know, cocaine leaves your system pretty quickly. You know, just in case I did find a new pain management doctor, I could go in and clean pee or, yeah, have clean pee. But my next step was heroin.

8:38 I was flirting with the idea to do heroin. I rationalized with myself saying that snorting cocaine would be better than injecting heroin, you know, So that was my mindset at the time. And then June 2019, you know, my kids father came out here for my second daughter's graduation from high school. And the night that we dropped him off at the airport, you know, I smoked my giggly Bush. And then I was flipping through Netflix so I could try to find something to watch. And what showed up was that documentary, A Leap of Faith. The name didn't catch my eye. It was that prescription bottle with the leaf coming out of it. That's what caught my eye. So I was like, you know what?

9:20 I'll, I'll just sit here and chill. Just, you know, puff on my weed and watch this. And that's what I did. And the very next day, I went to the smoke shop and bought the kratom that was featured in that documentary. And here I am almost 5 1/2 years later been a kratom consumer. That's amazing. I love that you discovered kratom through the documentary. I've said same with me. That was a popular documentary in 2019. It was making the rounds. People were talking about it on Netflix, and I just casually saw it when I was, you know, scrolling through Netflix one night. And I'm like, what's this? That artwork was brilliant on their part. Like that was some great marketing because it really spoke to me as well. Now, Cassie, you discovered kratom a little bit differently. Tell us about how I know when I've chatted with you before, you discovered kratom years back, but it didn't sound appealing.

10:10 And then Fast forward to this year, you went and learned more about it. So tell us about like when you first heard about it and then getting started with it now. Yeah, so a few years ago I had a roommate and he was addict in recovery as well. We had gone in the same program. But anyway, he was using it and I didn't know what it was. And he pretty much explained because he was a heroin addict and opioids, you know, all of those kinds of drugs. And he explained that it was helping him from, he did say it was helping him from craving it, but he did say it was like heroin and that it was extremely addictive.

10:52 So when he said all that, I was like, you know, I just dismissed it and didn't think nothing of it. And then I do remember seeing it in smoke shop since I've been smoking again, but I just didn't pay it any mind. And then I saw a video, I cannot remember where, but it was positive information. So that's when I started looking into it and I don't know how long or anything before between that and when I started, but yeah, I did a lot of research and then went to the smoke shop but accidentally got it back in hand. But now I'm on whole leaf powder and it, it saved me. It saved my life because like I said, when I was having this rough year, I was just started drinking a lot and I was looking for more.

11:42 I knew I was looking to get high in some way. And I did 2 weekends in a row. But I just, I saw myself going back to that life and if freedom, if I hadn't seen that video, I'd probably be in active addiction right now or dead or in prison. And that's what we do in active addiction was we were constantly chasing the fact that we could escape reality. Oh yeah, yeah. We didn't want to deal with nothing, you know? We wanted to just walk around numb all the time. Yeah, Cassie, when you first heard about kratom through that guy, you knew through recovery, was there like a perception with others in recovery? Like this stuff's no good. Nobody should be using this like they don't view it as a harm reduction tool. Yeah.

12:25 And now that you're asking me that, I do remember. So our program was extremely strict. It was almost like being in the military. But like you, they had rules on everything, and if you broke the rules, you got in trouble. Well, one thing we had to do was call out our punishment in front of the whole community. But like one night a week we had to say what we did and how many days we got, which was what our punishment was. It's a long explanation, but anyway. And I remember the men in the program calling out that they got in trouble for having kratom on them. I'd forgotten all about this, but I guess they had gotten it.

13:06 We had a lot of contract jobs that we worked and they, you know, people can get stuff from these jobs and bring them back to the program or whatever. So anyway, they got in trouble for it. So I do remember that instance, but still at that time I had no clue what it was. So then when the guy said something, my roommate, I guess I had thought about that too. That was probably that was another thing that why I just missed it. But anyway, when my roommate was consuming it, I do remember others that we still were in contact with from your program. They would be like, Oh yeah, so and so is doing kratom and blah, blah, blah. Or say they would they relapse Like so the people in recovery have a big misconception of his will, including apparently the people that ran the program.

13:50 Because like I said, I mean they, I don't know what their like explanation of it was because we weren't even allowed to like take medication like it was. Pretty were y'all allowed to drink like Red Bulls and monsters and smoke cigarettes and. You could smoke cigarettes, you could point. It out like that? Sorry, was that more like a humiliation tactic? Steve, that's what it feels like to me. But the way they explain it into the program is just being accountable for your action. I don't know why we had to say it in front of everybody, but yeah, I mean, look, I could do a whole episode on this program, but there was a lot of things with it that made all of this question the people that ran it. Because I mean, she, I just truly believe that if you're going to run a recovery program, that you should care about people and care about their recovery. Because this lady, as much as she claimed that this and this was for you and help your recovery, she was the most judgmental, mean, hateful person I've ever met in my life. Seemed like she was projecting.

14:56 She ran a lot of people off and I stayed because she my goal was to get my recovery and to get my family back and all that. I, I had a lot of issues with her, but I was like, I was focused in on me. I had to, but it was, it was something else. But the structure of it, like the way we had to do different phases and stuff of it and you get like more privileges in certain phases and blah, blah, blah. Like the way that that was structured and then the classes they had us take and stuff like that. I really liked the way that was. It helped me a lot. Now I can't sit here and say that if that day that I decided I was tired and I found kratom that I've been I've been good this whole time without a program, I probably would have. But you know, I didn't do it that way. I didn't know about.

15:51 I kind of wish I did, you know, because I, you know, I would have been. But you know, I look at it this way, the things that they did offer in the program that I didn't have access to where you, you know, talk all your stuff, figure out your wise, like you say, Misty. I mean, we did stuff like that, anger management, all kinds of different things. Like those things, they helped me and, you know, especially the coping skills with anger and stress and, you know, just dealing with, you know, it helped me a lot until it didn't this year. Could you imagine how much better a program like that would be if they introduce plant based recovery into the mix? I know John Schoenholzer is trying to make that happen with more places, but that would just have been amazing.

16:37 I really would love to get involved in something like that. I think it's amazing and I think. I do too. I do too. You know, the thing about it though, is that OK, it's my flex to sit here and say that I never went to a detox program. I never went to recovery center recovery meeting 12 step A a in a you know, suboxone, methadone, you know, because I was not looking for recovery when I found kratom. I was just looking for something to help me to go through, you know, because I was in cocaine withdrawal at the time, you know, and, and my I was still planning on trying to find a doctor, you know, because hey, I got this chronic pain and ain't never going to go away. But inadvertently, kratom helped my chronic. Pain.

17:20 Yeah. So like you weren't ready to be done, but it came along and it said all right, you're done. Yeah. Kratom it's. Like you're going to be ready for this shit, bitch. You better strap up and get ready. I gave you that opportunity to focus on your whys like you always talk about, which I love. That is amazing. Well, especially since Misty, you weren't even looking for recovery. Recovery came looking for you. Yes, it did. It sure did. Through a plant. Through a plant and when I started advocating on social media, I was, you know, one hashtag I did create was Kratom is recovery. But you know, some hater wouldn't reported that. So I stopped using that, you know, so, but during the because I, I got on TikTok in like the winter time of 2020, you know, America was locked down in the pandemic, you know, all that bullshit. So I just started focusing on getting social media content out.

18:13 I want people to know that kratom is an option. You know, it helped me, you know, and so when I started doing that, I got a lot of backlash from the abstinence recovery community, from the Mac community. And you know what, I just, I didn't lay down and take it, you know, they just fueled my advocacy fire, right? But I would also love to see plant based recovery centers. I know funding would be extremely hard because, you know, hey, big pharma is making profits off off a prescribed Suboxone methadone. So therefore these states get grant funding to open up recovery centers, you know, all that stuff. But hopefully John Shenholzer can, you know, lead the way on that, figure out a way to do it.

18:56 That would be so I think it would be amazing in in recovery centers and I've always. Had this idea that because I got arrested quite a few times, you know, in my active addiction and every single time that I got arrested, I had to withdraw in jail. I think it would be a perfect time to introduce somebody to kratom when they're being arrested for something. Yeah, what a great idea. Then they're finding, they're finding recovery and. And. Yep, and seeing their withdrawals right. Thank God man, I was. Oh God, withdrawing in jail is the worst. I used to work in a jail and I remember seeing people withdraw.

19:40 And this was way back before I even knew much about it, but I would see people in withdrawal in themselves and it was, it was awful. I mean, you would think that would have kept me from going and doing it, but but anyway. But yeah, it's awful to see people going through that. And it's like, I don't want to say everybody thinks this way, but it's almost like some of the correctional officers are just like, well, that's what they deserve. They're in jail, you know, so. They get pleasure, I see in the suffering and I think, you know, introducing somebody to kratom, if they're if they got arrested for drugs and they have to go to jail, you know, for whatever reason, and you know, introduce them to Kratom then and that right there will plant a seed in their head. Because when I first found kratom, it was depressing pause in my brain from the cravings.

20:28 That's what I noticed first. I was like, I went six hours without thinking about calling my coke dealer, without thinking about calling my pill dealer. I had calm. I was calm. And then I got up. I started jamming to music. I was, I did my laundry, I cleaned the house. I cooked dinner for my kids. I didn't notice it during the time. It wasn't until I went to bed that night was when I was thinking about everything I did during that day. And I was like, holy shit. I did not think about calling my dealers. I did all this without being high on something. But it's the calmness in the brain, you know, that pressing pause, That's what I did. First, Yeah. And that, that helps me so much with my anxiety too, you know, It does.

21:13 It is very calm me. It has helped so much with my anxiety. When I initially was advocating on TikTok or on social media period, I would say that I'm clean, that I'm in recovery. But it wasn't until a couple years ago that, you know, I got met with, you know, I went and got some dental work done and they were like, hey, we can prescribe you some Ativan or something, you know, for the before dental procedure. And I was like, no, I'm good. And then after I got it done, I had, because I got 5 teeth pulled And when I got done, they were like, we can give you a prescription for Vicodin. And I was like, no, I'm good. I got kratom and ibuprofen. I'm good, you know, So there have been times throughout my almost 5 1/2 years that I've been faced with a chance to go backwards.

22:00 And so when that happened to me a couple times, that wasn't the only time. The other time was one of my old drug dealers finally hit me up and was like, hey, I got the pink tans. Like that was years ago. But anyway, so that's when I started changing the way that I speak to myself. I'm recovered at it now. I don't identify with being an addict in recovery or recovering. That I will always be recovering. You know, because words matter. The way you speak to yourself matters on your healing process. That's true. So you might, I mean, you know, whenever you identify with, I don't care what you identify with, but you will come to a point in your journey that you'll be like, wait a minute, I'm not a victim to this anymore, right? You know, Yeah.

22:51 This is. Great, I'm loving this conversation. Yeah, that, I mean, that's the biggest thing for me, especially after this year. Like I think and you know, this was how we were programmed as well in the program. But I truly believe I have to work on it every single day the rest of my life because of what I mean, especially after what happened this year, because you know, I'm like almost eight years and you know, I'm good. I, I started drinking a beer socially a couple years back and you know, blah, blah, blah. But then what happened this year happened. And I mean, that's, that's why I say I'm in recoveries, just because I, I just know and feel like I, I have to focus on it every single day and all the situations that I face and I just have to keep it right here at the forefront of my brain to keep working on it or I'm going to go back. So, I mean, there's no right, there's no right or wrong way to think about it or anything.

23:53 Everybody has different, everybody recovers differently and everything else. But we got a common denominator going on here with the kratom and it's saving our life. And yeah, I mean, I, I truly feel, you know, as long as I'm taking kratom, I don't have to worry about it because, yeah. And that damn beer is still in my refrigerator. I'm going to make a video though and pour it out. But even thinking about. It. Even thinking about it, I'm like so many. People say that. So many people I've talked to said things like, I don't have any cravings to drink anymore.

24:34 Yeah. And some people said, like, they didn't even have a problem with alcohol, but they don't even want to, like, just drink a beer or a glass of wine. But then you've also got people that did have issues with alcohol, but they weren't taking kratom for that. They were taking kratom like, for their pain or maybe an opioid addiction. And they're like, I have no desire to drink anymore either. It's almost like this cherry on top, like, there's all these, like, additional things benefits people get with kratom. Yeah. Like people said, like, depression and anxiety is common. People are like, oh, and by the way, not only to help my pain, I don't have to take my anxiety medicine anymore. Yeah, I could go to the grocery store and not have to feel like a, you know. Yeah, you take it for like a particular reason, but then you find all these other things that it's helping with and it's just like, wow, you know, great. I know that's happened with you, Cassie, because when I interviewed you for the podcast recently that you were weaning off some of those additional meds. And I think now you've done even more with that. Is that right?

25:34 Are you still work? Are you still working on it? So I stopped for 13 days. I did good until the end there because it was that time of the month and I just got a lot of hormones going on because I have a surgery coming up. And anyway, it's just too much for me. And also, you know, just everything else I got going on. And so I started back on one of the medications, the one that's a combination for depression and anxiety, and I'd only take it every other night. And I had an appointment with my doctor anyway two weeks ago, I think, and I talked to her about it and she said as long as I'm not going through whatever, I hadn't talked to her about kratom yet.

26:23 But I have a physical next month and I think I'm going to bring it up. But that's another thing for John Schinholzer. But anyway, yeah, so I just, and I just got lost, sorry. So. So you haven't been comfortable mentioning kratom to doctors yet? Well, mainly for, you know, the reasons we were discussing earlier. But I mean, at the same time, like, I feel it's important to let them know what's helping me. And yeah, I mean, we'll see. I'll let you on. I didn't mention it to any doctors my first few years. I just wasn't sure how any of them would react, especially because when you Google kratom, there's so much misinformation and propaganda and stuff.

27:09 And I was concerned that, you know, doctors would get mad or tell me I can't take it. But then I got to the point was like, well, I know more than any of them because they don't seem to know anything about kratom anyway. But it's like, we can flip the script. We can fire a doctor if we don't like them. We don't have to keep using them. So I just decided to be more vocal and just explained that, you know, I take a botanical supplement called Kratom for my chronic pain and I've yet to meet a doctor locally here that even knew what it was and none of them had an issue with it. As a matter of fact, I sat here was the one educating them and I always tell them to go to kratomanswers.org because that is a great website from the AKA that has a lot of the science backed information. So I feel like somebody in the medical profession, it would be, I think content that they would resonate with because it's just more science based.

28:05 But you know, you do what you're comfortable with and. Yeah. I mean, like I said, the combination that I have going on right now is working great for me. And yeah. That's all that matters, right? That's all that. Matters, it works. So I'm good. I probably shouldn't. I mean I did taper down for like 2 months but I still had those brains out and then like I said, just that on top of everything I I was a literal like crying all day every day. I was a mess. But another thing I wanted to mention to you is like right after that, I had a big appointment for some things, but it was a mental health appointment and I saw a different doctor and I don't know if it was the way that he asked questions or what. But anyway, come to find out like my anxiety is like way more severe than I thought it was or we even thought it was. And so that it's, I just, it's probably not going to be helpful for me to completely get off of it. But like I said, I I've been able to decrease my dose a lot and the combination of both has been good. I think that's great and it probably gives others hope to know that there's, you know, people out there that were able to do that.

29:21 I think that's great and you and you do what works for you. Yeah. I mean, I have nothing at all against the medications. Well, I'm not against taking medications, but the medications, like I said, were helping me in some areas but hurting me in other areas. Like I was talking about before, you know, I was numb and a lot of things, I couldn't cry. I didn't feel things and it was just. That's how I was on Prozac. Yeah, yeah. Well, yeah. And this was Lexapro for me. And then they ended up, I told them about that and they added Wellbutrin on top of it. So, yeah. And if if I had started saying, OK, well this is going on now, would they probably would have put another medicine on there? That's what they typically do.

30:09 They stack them. They. Stack them? Yeah, it's called stacking. I ain't doing it. Yeah, I'm stacking it. Good. Good for you taking charge of your healthcare. Yeah, I mean utilizing a plant. I want to be able to feel, you know what I mean? I want to be me, you know? If I'm sad and I need to cry, I want to cry. It's so therapeutic. Oh yeah, all of it, you know, Yeah, Laughing I. Just remember like back in I quit Prozac in 2009 because that was when my epilepsy had started and I thought maybe the high, I was on a high ass dose of Prozac. I thought, OK, maybe that's what's causing my seizures. But it wasn't, you know? But I quit it at the time and I remember the brain zaps too. It takes a while for your brain to heal. It really does.

30:53 But I remember being just I didn't give a shit about fuck, you know, I didn't care. I got fired from the post office that I was a an employee for 11 years. You know, I worked my ass off. I didn't give a shit. I didn't want to fight while I was getting fired and nothing, you know, I lost my house, had to go move in with my parents or my three kids. You know, I didn't care about shit. Yeah, that's how it is. And I was on Prozac from like 2006 to 2009. Missy, do you feel like Cray even though you stopped that way before you started kratom? Do you feel like kratom still kind of fills a void for that? Yeah, it does it. You know, there's times that like, you know, my story where around this time of year when I found my brother dead in November 2012 and holidays come up and because my mom, dad and brother are dead, there's times around this time of year.

31:47 It's like, I don't know, maybe it's like that seasonal depression that kicks in or whatever. Plus, you know, on top of that, I still do relive the moments in my head, but I don't get sad to where one I'm going to go cry and, you know, go curl up in my bed and call my drug dealers or anything like that. I don't want to escape when I'm feeling I will sit with it. I will feel it, confront it and slay it. That's. My, that's exactly what you have to do. Yeah, I'm not. Running. I'm no one running, you know. My mom passed away in November of 2012 as well. She died of overdose. Yeah. You know, and that was my brother's death in November of 2012 was like the number one reason why I spiraled even more out of control in my addiction.

32:37 It was that PTSD that I was living with that whole did I not do the CPR right? Did I call the ambulance on time? You know, seeing his body being wheeled out in a body bag on a stretcher. It was this constant stuff that I was reliving and questioning all the what ifs, the what ifs, what ifs, what ifs. And you know, February 2012 was when we lost our dad. And then in April 2018, towards the ending of my addiction, you know, I had to take my mom off life support. I live in Colorado, she lived in Montana. And I had to make that decision over the phone to take her off life support. So there was a lot of stuff I was just trying to escape from. And but like I said, I survived the over prescribing epidemic and I could have got pain pills anytime I freaking wanted, you know, I could go pay cash for one doctor, pay cash for my script.

33:29 Two hours later I go to my insurance doctor and get my insurance scripts so I'd be loaded up. Yeah, it wasn't hard to do all that back in the day. Cassie, do you feel like kratom has filled that void as well with those other meds that you've taper down off of the bed? Yeah, definitely. Like I was saying, the issues I was having with just the Lexapro, and then I talked to the doctor and they put the Wellbutrin on everything that I wasn't feeling when I was just on the Lexapro. It opened up just a little bit with the Wellbutrin. But you know, but now I feel I'm still taking the Lex Pro, but I feel all my feelings, you know, but I do have that good sense of well-being, like even even in these times of stress and, or sad times and everything else I still have, I have like a positive mindset most of the time now, you know, like it's going to be all right or use my language, but fuck it. Or you know what I mean, whatever the situation calls for, whatever, you know, that's what I mean. That's what you know whenever people talk about the mood lift with kratom, you know, that's what we're explaining right here.

34:43 Right. Yeah, yeah, there's. Something that happens in our yeah, if something negative happens in our life, which it has a couple times during my 5 1/2 years, I don't automatically sit and dwell on the doom and gloom. Right. There's a light at the end of. Every negative. Happens, yeah. I've always dwelled on the doom and gloom, you know, but now I'm like, it's going to be all right. I've been in this situation 100 times before. I'm going to get through it again, you know, And then I also like right. And also I'm like ready to go, ready to do what I got to do to take care of it. Like just let's do this and let's look at it in a positive way rather than sulking and, you know, being being depressed about it.

35:28 I'm not. Grabbing that bull by the horns and riding that motherfucker. Yeah. I'm a Taurus, that's my. Sign I love it Misty, how do you address the stigma and misconception surrounding kratom, especially within the recovery community? By loudly and proudly advocating my ass off and not giving a goddamn fuck what anybody says, Perry. My dog. Mic drop. Mic drop. Nobody you know you. You can claim that you understand what I say when I was in active addiction this, that and 3rd.

36:11 But until you walked a mile in my shoes, you don't know shit right? You know I got myself back, my kids got their mother back. My kids no longer have to worry about coming home and finding me nodded off somewheres or worrying about touching me if I'm going to be cold and dead. So your opinions are just opinions? Yeah, that's it. How do you address the stigma and misconception surrounding kratom, especially in the recovery community? Same thing Misty said. But just putting the facts out there, the correct information, doing the research and just loud and proud advocating not giving a fuck. What do you might think it's like? And if, if they have negative things to say, you know, we can talk about it and but just don't come with, with things that are not true.

37:05 Like it's facts, you know, like if you're going to do that, you better be ready to show some some proof because. Ready to back that ass? Up. Yeah, bring. That I'm tired of people like saying all this crap about kratom, that it's not true and it's just causing too much shit for us. Now it gets me that consumed it responsibly. Yeah, when people say you traded one addiction for another and I'm just always like, you know what? I don't subscribe. I don't subscribe to that brainwashed AANA stuff. I don't, you know. So go ahead, keep talking about your ass. But once you start the phone calling then I'm a block your ass. Yeah.

37:45 Now those people that say that they're not addict, right, They haven't been in addiction. I mean for those. I, I mean, I don't know some of them, you know, because they I can tell whenever it's a a in a commenter. Gotcha. Well, we get all kinds of comments on our Tik Toks, you know, because people love to come in and come into our videos that we put out and come in and just get into the comments and say a bunch of crap as if it's their account that they're invading, not your own. And trying to preach about how bad kratom is with I mean usually no first hand experience.

38:26 Yeah, yeah. If people just understood the addict behaviors and what addicts do to get their next fix and then they see us with holy powder like it is not the same. People might be doing that with the extracts, people that are abusing it or whatever, but it's not kratom. Let me give you an example because there's this, you know, that whole Mississippi news story about Mississippi coming up to ban kratom, all that stuff. I always tell people, go drop their testimonies in the comments sections right on Facebook. Now this guy said, I said I'm a recovered junkie and quote quotations because I found kratom over five years ago.

39:07 He says You mean an active junkie since you found kratom. I said I no longer beg, borrow or steal for FDA approved pharmaceuticals. I'm no longer on my knees slobbering DS for cocaine. I got myself back. My kids got their mother back. I'm no longer on Medicaid, Section 8 or food stamps. I pay taxes now. Oh yeah. You know, comments like that. We get comments like that. Oh yeah, yeah, I've already been getting some. Yeah, I ain't worried about it. My whole lifestyle did a complete 180 after I found I moved out of the ghetto, you know, I got off Section 8, no longer on the food stamps. Like I was saying, you know, I freaking I moved cities, moved into a big ass house.

39:52 You know, no, I'm not freaking being sponsored by kratom companies. So don't come at me saying that bullshit either. That did happen before where someone said, oh, she moved into a big house. She must be getting paid good money. No, Misty won't even talk about vendors. No. God, idiot. So that's what I thought about earlier. I wanted to talk a little bit more about what I suffered through while I was in active addiction as far as my kid goes, because I haven't even talked about that yet. So my my son, I think my whole all of my story, probably when he was about 10 years old. And so before that his father got on heroin really bad and I remember hating him for it and not letting him see him and all that kind of shit.

40:44 And then whatever happened happened fewer few years later, there I am. So my kid at the same time has both parents in active addiction sometimes use them together. And we weren't even together anyway. But my son was like, yeah, my son was yeah. It was really only about like getting the money and getting the the drug. And then we just did our thing and and then the next time whatever. But anyway, but my son tell a huge front of my addiction and ended up where he he end up living at so many different places. I can't even tell you how many anymore, but he had to live with his aunt.

41:26 He went with his dad for a minute, not long, and then went back to his aunt, went to my dad's, went into foster care while I was in a program Anyway, so he's just been through all of it and it's just been bad because I wasn't able to raise him really. But yeah, so I lost relationship with him. I lost relationship with with my dad, who, you know, I'm daddy's girl. So he didn't talk to me for like 3 years. You know, it's just all of that. Everything that comes with active addiction, you know, you lose everything you have off homeless. I lived in my car, I lived in a homeless shelter, I helped Derfed a little bit, just all kinds of stuff. And it was just an absolute mess. And it was somewhere that I never, ever thought that I would be.

42:16 Because it makes you not, I mean, it makes you like all your morals are out the window, you know? I mean, you do whatever it takes and it didn't even matter. And yes, you love your family. You don't want to lose your family and everything, but that's how much it takes control over you. But you love the drug more. Right, yeah. And you can't help that like it's anyways and you know. People think that when you're an active addict like that, people automatically assume that it's the drug. You're also addicted to the chase of the drug. Whether you want to admit or not, you're addicted to the lifestyle that comes with it.

42:57 Whether you get more of a lifestyle or less of a lifestyle. It's the whole constant chase. Of it, yeah. And also. Because once you get it, you know, you're, you feel like you're a king of the world, You know, once you got your drug. Yeah. And also I will say this, if you are AIV drug user, you get addicted to that as well. The whole, just the process, the whole process of it. And it's weird because I don't know, but that was a a big issue I had and. Yeah, because towards the end of my addiction, I was snorting my pills and I was smoking them off aluminum foil. And then, you know, like I said, when I got fired from pain management, I went to doing cocaine. And you do.

43:42 You get addicted to crushing up the rock. You get addicted to put the straw on your nose hoping you don't make your nose bleed, you know? And then, like I said, I knew I knew where to get the heroin, you know, So I was so close. I was so close to putting that needle in my arm before I found kratom. I'm so glad you didn't, because do you know what my dumb ass said before I did heroin? I said, oh, I just want to try it one time. No. Oh. Yeah. Oh wow. Somebody actually shot it up for me. It was actually never mind, but yeah. And I remember passing out, waking up later. I didn't know what the hell is going on, but I felt I I was done after that.

44:23 I was asking for more an hour after I woke up and then yeah, that went on for a few years and got to where I couldn't get in anymore because I owed everybody a lot of money. So then somebody I knew like had cocaine all the time. So I started shooting up that and then started living with this way older gentleman just because I didn't have anywhere to go and he was willing to take me in and he it come ended up being a crack dealer. So then I started doing that. Just whatever I had access to. It was terrible, like. Convenience. It was a convenience of it all. But let me tell. Let me give you some words of advice here. Don't beat yourself up on the relationship statuses. Just continue working on you and everything else will fall into place.

45:14 Right. Well, I mean it. Happened with me. Right. I mean, all of that is, is very good. Now me and my dad have a relationship again. I mean, I have relationships with my whole family again and my son. And yeah, we are super close now and I've got 3 grandchildren and. I'm about to be a grandma. Yes, I know. I saw that. I do edit that video. Yeah, that's exciting. I'm telling you what, it's so great. It is. Well, I mean, I don't know yet, I'm sure, but I just got to, I got to go with emotions, yeah. It's awesome. But because of credo, they were able to enjoy this. Yeah, yeah. And remember it.

45:56 Yeah, 'cause. I remember every waking moment. Right. In the last eight years I have gained more in my life than I ever have before. You know, like before, I never learned how to be a responsible adult. I didn't pay my bills like I was supposed to. I ran my credit into the ground from the get go. Like I just did everything wrong. Spent money as soon as I got it. Just never, never learned how to be responsible. Well, since I've, you know, got sober and and whatever, I've worked on all of that and I'm really like still learning, but I've been able to, you know, get those relationships back and have what I have. I mean, I'm grateful for everything. Like even just, I could be living in a shack right now, but I'd be happy I had a roof over my head, you know, just like, and my son, I got so lucky with him because he cannot stand drugs.

46:51 He hates cigarettes or he does smoke the weed, but the weed, but anything else, he's like, scared. He's like so responsible. He's only 22, OK, And I've got 3 grandkids. But anyway, he's so responsible and like with stuff like that, he's just like. But I'm so grateful for that because I need, I, I need this cycle to end. Yeah. In this family and that I was just going to. Say that because I broke the generational curse. I grew up with both of my parents that were trapped in the first opioid epidemic, you know, the whole over prescribing shit as well in the 90s. And so I was around 5 or 6 years old when, you know, I'd remember seeing, you know, my mom and my mom and dad like nodded off somewhere or something like that. But you're young.

47:45 I was just a child. I just thought they were tired, you know. So but from like 5-6 years old till I moved out of the house when I was 17, they were still in active addiction. They both still died when they were in active addiction. So all those years, I always say I inadvertently, because I grew up hating pills. I grew up hating the fact that my parents made us grow up early, you know, all that shit. And here I am in my late 20s, doing the same things to my kids. My kids also took the brunt of it because I've been a single mom since 2006 when I started going to pain management. But the 2008 error was when I slipped into the addiction side.

48:28 So yeah, I broke the generational curse. I feel like you know, and I'm my. Crowd. Oh yeah, that's great. And you're kids have a great mother to look up to now. I mean, it's awesome. You know, and when they tell me stuff like that, I just, I always apologize to them. I'm, I'm constantly apologizing to them. Then they're like just shut the fuck up. How do they feel about kratom, Misty? They absolutely love it, and you know why they love it? Because they saw me. They saw me being from an active addict in a Caterpillar, and they saw me butterflying it, you know? Yeah.

49:08 So my progress is not perfection, but I'm alive. I got air in my lungs and they no longer have to take care of me and worry about me. So that right there is is what fills me up inside. That's wonderful, Cassie. What about your family? How do they feel about kratom? OK so I'm still pretty new. I have not told anybody in my family except for my son. And he, he just said that he thinks he can see a difference in me. Like, I'm a lot calmer as far as my anxiety and stuff goes. But yeah, I haven't really. I haven't really. Yeah. I'm still in the kratom call that even though I'm sitting here on social media making all these videos and, and shouting loud and proud.

49:54 But I mean, if they see it, they see it. But I plan on my family's like about 7 hours away and I am planning on going down there before my surgery. And my plan is to talk to him and tell him, you know, I don't want to tell him over the phone, just have a conversation about it in person. But I mean, they might find out before then. If not, I'll just talk. You know, you can sit them down and just question them and say, how do you feel about the active addiction? Cassie to the Today Cassie. Yeah. And then you could fill in the gap and be like, well, it's because. Yeah, that's a good idea. That is really that's an excellent idea. Yeah, that is good. Missy's always got great ideas.

50:38 Always, always old. I think my sweet. I think very. Creative minds here. Absolutely. I think we're going to need to make this into two parts because we're already coming up on an hour and I feel like we're just getting going. I still have so many questions. So I feel like I could talk about recovery forever, too. Yeah. Just sharing our three, sharing our story is gonna, I don't know it. I remember. I mean, I still do like, listen to other people's stories. And it's just, it helps so much just to know that you're not alone and that other people are going through the same struggles. And you learn so much from other people's stories. And you can help others by sharing your story. Yeah.

51:27 So like, I, I mean, I, I could talk about recovery forever. I can talk about freedom forever. We can too. You're in good company. You're with the right people. You found good people. I'm so grateful to have found y'all. I'm serious. Like I've always struggled with relationships in my life as far as friends and boyfriends and all of that. And everybody I've ever had in my life is just, I don't know if we're too busy and we just move on or whatever the case may be. But like I finally feel like I can talk to you guys and, and even though anybody in the world can see it, I don't care. But this is helping me and it's also helping others for them to hear it.

52:10 And then just having y'all helping me and somebody I can talk to and get research resources from and everything. Like I really appreciate y'all. I can never tell y'all enough. It's. Free therapy. It. Truly is, you know, and just like the friends that we thought we had in active addiction, we called them our friends at the time, but it was friends with benefits, right? You know, so they it's not what truly what friendship means. Right. I'm just loving this conversation. I think we'll make it a 2 parter. So our listeners need to come back for round two and we'll we'll keep it going. So y'all, thank you for your time. You're very welcome. Yeah. Thank you my one.

52:53 Thank you for listening. You can get more information at kratomstoriespodcast.com, including show notes from this episode.